Can we talk honestly about guns???

[Peacetrain]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I was raised with guns.. My Dad hunted and always kept a handgun.. I am not afraid of them.. but trust me, I do not want to see anyone walking into my local grocery with a gun strapped to their leg or shoulder..

The only reason a person would do that is because they are afraid.. and fearful people can be very dangerous.

Also, I am of an age, that I have seen and listened to this nonsense put out by the right about their rights being abridged if they are forced to register their guns..

Excuse me all to pieces but the more guns we have the more shootings we have had.. Hello you right wing nutters.. 50 years ago we were not having mass shooting's basically every few days.. but since people started listening to your nonsense, thousands have lost their lives and mobility to bullets fired..

Things have not gotten better, by a good guy carrying a gun.. Things have gotten worse.. My grand nieces and nephews have to go through drills about people coming in to shoot them the way we have to go through drills about nuclear attacks.. the difference.. the shooters have actually attacked schools.. we just sat under our desks..

Oh and you NRA lovers.. the NRA used to be opposed to weapons of mass destruction being so easily attained by the average person.. Not until they started taking money and directions from the Russians.. and our citizens no longer felt safe and armed themselves out of fear..

Nikita Khrushchev once said to a group of diplomats.. " we will bury you".. well they certainly have buried thousands with the help of the Republican Party and its affiliates..

I know that may sound harsh.. but it is the truth..

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Truth. Japan has far more deadly video games and a brutal...

war history, but a far lower shooting rate than we have.

Anybody trying to figure out why?

[Ray Bruns]

4. Hold on. Give me a minute. Is it easy access to guns to anybody who can fog a mirror?

[TreasonousBastard]

7. With Japan, as with most developed countries, it's the murder...

rate you look for. Guns are tough to get anywhere but third world countries and the US.

[mahina]

31. So how are we doing by that metric?

Thanks.

[EX500rider]

42. We are ranked 59th

With 6.3 per 100,000 homicides per year

The top 10 countries are in the 33 to 49 range per 100,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[mahina]

47. Hmm that chart shows Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands' much higher rates.

But they are both US territories.

[Glorfindel]

2. Not harsh at all. It's the simple, unadulterated truth.

N/T

[Chalco]

3. I vote for rounding up all guns, then

melting them and creating stuff from them: housing, cars, whatever and giving them to homeless people.

Don't tell me this is not feasible. I won't listen.

Instead, think of some way of using the melted metal that benefits people.

[former9thward]

15. "I won't listen."

Which is why your position will never get anywhere.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

50. Yeah, good luck with that. nt

[Chalco]

51. A girl can dream...nt

[MarineCombatEngineer]

52. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

[doc03]

5. I have to disagree on one thing "The only reason they do that (open carry) is because they are

afraid". That could be for some but mostly it is to intimidate other people and make them afraid.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Or because it's illegal in most places to show your dick.

[chowder66]

48. Perrrrrrfect!

[Caliman73]

34. Intimidation is about masking fear.

Someone who is confident in themselves, does not have to take an aggressive posture. People try to make other people afraid, to allay their own fear.

[KS Toronado]

35. Know a kid right out of high school

that keeps a 9mm on his hip all day, always thought he done it to be more manly looking or macho,
maybe it is to intimidate other people.

[Kaleva]

6. I posted a poll asking DUers think others could have guns for self orotection

The vast majority said yes

[sarisataka]

10. It was very interesting how few voted no

One would have expected an overwhelming vote but in the other direction

[Kaleva]

13. I was actually quite surprised how the voting went

I can't prove it but I think there's been a shift in attitude towards having guns for self defense .

[Amishman]

27. the world is a scary place, and the police are as likely to be a threat as a friend

and I don't see it getting better any time soon

[KS Toronado]

39. Link to this poll you speak of?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

12. That was the most biasedly framed poll I've ever seen.

It had a lack of nuance that one would expect on a far-right website, not on one aimed at liberal Democrats.

Now you use that "poll" as a talking point? Please.

[Kaleva]

14. Do you oppose people having a gun or guns for self defense?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

16. Thank you for proving my point.

[Kaleva]

19. So we can assume you are ok with people having guns for self defense

[Just A Box Of Rain]

23. I'm not playing your game, which eliminates all context and nuace.

I'm not a right-winger who sees everything in reductionist terms.

Nice try though.

[hunter]

18. I ignore most polls, especially polls like that.

They're meant to push opinions, got gauge them.

I don't even trust most cops with guns. They have neither the temperament or the skill to use them appropriately and I've witnessed the consequences.

Guns are not especially useful for "self defense." But they're great tools for murder, manslaughter, suicide, and general mayhem as is demonstrated day after day.

If you meant "orotection" instead of "protection," I don't know what orotection means.

[Kaleva]

20. A long winded statement saying you are against it .

[hunter]

26. Against what? Polls, or the deadly absurdity of U.S.A. gun culture?

Gun fetishes are disgusting.

[Elessar Zappa]

22. That doesn't mean DUers are against gun control.

I’m for the ability to own a gun for self defense but I still think large magazines, assault weapons, and red flag laws should be in place.

[Kaleva]

28. I agree with you

I think people who wish to own a gun for whatever reason should have extensive training and spend a lot of time practicing that training .

[calimary]

37. If it were up to me, I'd just get rid of ALL the guns. Period.

And I know, I know, the precious 2nd amendment and all that.

And I’ve offered a compromise, on the assumption that I had any power or authority on the subject (which in reality I don’t). Here’s the deal: I let you have all the guns, in all the sizes and styles, and all the ammo. Now, in exchange, can I get my two friends back?

They were kind, empathetic, smart, peace-loving, mature and well-educated, with terrific senses of humor and wisdom, and everything you’d want and hope for in a friend. They were both friends with the local cops, and one of them even worked with law enforcement to help understand the criminal mind thanks to her studied specialty.

But one day, they got into an argument. There happened to be a gun in the house (for protection, of course). The argument escalated and one of them grabbed the gun and blew the other one away, and then turned the gun on herself and blew herself away.

Truth. That was years ago. I still miss them both. And I have heard all the arguments for guns and freedom and self-protection and privacy and choice. Heard ‘em all. But not one of them changed or changes anything for me. I STILL want my two friends back, even while knowing that will never be possible, ever.

Because there was a gun within easy reach of those who knew and fully understood better - at the worst possible time.

[sarisataka]

9. Probably not nt

[Ferryboat]

11. Ratio back in the 60s was 20 guns per 100 people

Nowadays more like 120 guns per person

[Ron Green]

17. Guns, fear, guns, fear, guns, fear,

and so on. This is a toxic country, built on many many lies.

Even the seeming highlights of American history concealed dark things underneath.

[Kennah]

21. NRA was founded in 1871 by Union Military Officers to teach civilian marksmanship

There was fear of a Second Civil War, and without a large standing Army, the Union Army was dependent upon the existing marksmanship skills of its soldiers. Burnside was the first President of the NRA, and they sought to keep Confederates out in the early years. The NRA's founders would be calling today's leaders of the NRA traitors.

[Zeitghost]

24. If we want to have an honest conversation

Starting with honest facts would be a good start.

The murder significantly higher 50 years ago in 1972 than it is today.

[EX500rider]

43. Graph:

[Zeitghost]

46. Here is my source

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

It shows murder rates at 8-10 per 100,000 in the 70's and 80's and 4-5 for the last few years ending in 19. I know things have ticked up slightly since then.

[SYFROYH]

25. random thoughts on guns.

I'm fine with banning open carry within city limits or places where an owner prohibits it. It's just a matter of passing a state law.

It's been interesting to watch gun homicide rates go up and down and up again over the last few decades.

[RAB910]

29. I have a friend who talks about how gun laws are "targeting law abiding citizens"

My issue is that three quarters of the mass shootings are being committed by formerly "law-abiding citizens"

[Torchlight]

30. My experience has been that with the proliferation of the sea-lions tactic,

who more often than not ague with a lack good faith, often results in most discussions lacking any real merit but instead, a competition of who can rhetorically out-score who with bumper stickers.

In the case of my own household, as just owning a firearm increases the risk of getting shot by over four times, we decided to keep our risk low and bought a flat-screen telly instead. I think it gets much more use at our place than a weapon ever would have.

[live love laugh]

32. "... fearful people can be very dangerous." SO TRUE. nt

[H2O Man]

33. Recommended.

This is one of the absolute best OPs I've ever read on this forum, and I've been here since 2003. Thank you!

[róisín_dubh]

36. So well said

and much of that is the same for me (first bit especially).

I hate guns and I'm fortunate to live in a country where they're extremely uncommon (though I did get mugged the other night, I wasn't shot...)

[gibraltar72]

38. I too was raised with guns.

Mostly my grandfather taught me to respect the gun and use it as a tool. I hunted for a few years then decided over a duck dinner prepared by my Mother in law who cooked for the 2nd richest family in town, that wild game really wasn't all that appetizing. I shot competitively in high school and later shot trap competitively. I loved guns as a tool and also art. I had 10 all but an 1800s percussion rifle are gone.

[Cherokee100]

40. What other

What other country, sells bullet proof back packs, for their kids to wear to school? Enough said!!!

[nightwing1240]

41. Forgive me if this may sound harsh

But the one thing that would solve mass shootings or just shootings in general would be NO MORE GUNS! My issue is not with hunters or those wishing to protect themselves and family. My issue is what guns can do and how easily they can be attained. I would hazard to say that it would be an extremely low percentage where an outcome with a gun or rifle ended up doing something good.

[Warpy]

44. Truth is never harsh, it's only the truth

Having some dumb fantasy destroyed is the harsh part, whether you've discovered a partner is having an affair or realizing your precious bang-bang is part of the problem and can never be any part of its solution.

I didn't grow up around guns, the most my dad had was an air pistol and we'd take turns shooting at his empties in a lake (no, I didn't grow up on the set of Leave it to Beaver). I shot a .22 rifle at camp and sucked. I used a bow and arrow and was stellar. I've always disliked guns, they're noisy and smelly.

However, if I lived outside the city, there would be a shotgun over the door nearest the wheelie bins or any trash dump. Bear spray doesn't work if it's the one bear in a million who's having a bad day and charges.

Between the street gangs and the rural people, NM is wild country and the state is bristling with guns. I've never seen anyone using a gun as a fashion statement here.

[JohnnyRingo]

45. I have guns. I like guns. But...

I don't like seeing people in the grocery store carrying on their hip. It annoys me to no end that he thinks I should be afraid to walk into the local Sparkle Market. If it were that dangerous I'd go to another store.

This line says it all:
"The only reason a person would do that is because they are afraid.. and fearful people can be very dangerous."

When I see open carry, I don't know what's on their mind.

[GoodRaisin]

49. That's not the only reason they walk into a grocery store with a gun.

Not even likely the reason at all for most of them. The reason is that it makes them feel “tough”, and for others to admire them or fear them because “they have a macho gun” that everyone can see.

Who really goes to the grocery store in so much fear that they need to have a gun and holster hanging off of them? Nah. It could depend on the neighborhood they are in, I suppose, but it’s more likely they have a maturity problem.

[Omaha Steve]

53. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING

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