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fightforfreedom

(4,913 posts)
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:15 AM Dec 2022

It's common sense, I cannot make it any clearer than this.

If an ex-presidents own former White House counsel informed the president what he is about to do is illegal and the ex-president did it anyway. That ex-president is Fucked!

Trumps own WH counsel and others told Trump and Eastman what they were planning is illegal. Trumps WH counsel already testified that Eastman admitted during a White House meeting where Trump was present his plan was illegal.

If Trumps former WH counsel and others are testifying to this in front of a Grand Jury. Game over.

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It's common sense, I cannot make it any clearer than this. (Original Post) fightforfreedom Dec 2022 OP
I'm sure this happened repeatedly. And since there's no attorney-client privilege Ocelot II Dec 2022 #1
A lot of people are going to be indicted. fightforfreedom Dec 2022 #2
Here's what has to be subpoenaed: no_hypocrisy Dec 2022 #3
It's funny, reportedly Trump hated it when lawyers took notes Walleye Dec 2022 #5
Far, FAR worse than that DENVERPOPS Dec 2022 #21
I guess that's what he was flushing down the toilet Walleye Dec 2022 #22
I recall reading that TFG snapped at one of his lawyers (McGahn, I think) Ocelot II Dec 2022 #6
Perhaps the White House Plumbers recovered the confiscated and flushed notes Marcuse Dec 2022 #19
I can only imagine DENVERPOPS Dec 2022 #28
Ah.... Would that common sense reigned in the courtroom. LAS14 Dec 2022 #4
They sometimes manage to convict crime bosses who don't give direct orders either. RICO law? Walleye Dec 2022 #7
Mark Meadows is the key. gab13by13 Dec 2022 #11
Yes he is what they would call a known unknown. I don't think he will want to go to prison. Walleye Dec 2022 #13
Wasn't the way DENVERPOPS Dec 2022 #23
I think we expect the asshole will drop dead from natural causes before he is ever held accountable Walleye Dec 2022 #24
Whatever happens, DENVERPOPS Dec 2022 #27
Multiple lawyers telling you something is illegal is not proof you knew it was true? fightforfreedom Dec 2022 #8
trump, of course, is "smarter than the lawyers. rampartc Dec 2022 #16
The hearsay rules wouldn't exclude the testimony of the lawyers. Ocelot II Dec 2022 #12
Thank you for that explanation. onecaliberal Dec 2022 #25
Stop making sense. dchill Dec 2022 #9
They were for him before they were against him. czarjak Dec 2022 #10
Mark Meadows has to be a nervous wreck. gab13by13 Dec 2022 #14
Lawyer says something like, "no sweat Boss I can get you off". Walleye Dec 2022 #15
or an offer for a hand job GenXer47 Dec 2022 #17
Maybe both at the same time Walleye Dec 2022 #18
Let us hope. Joinfortmill Dec 2022 #20
Cippi cup told Cassidy Hutchinson that is they let dump go to the Capitol they were all going to onecaliberal Dec 2022 #26

Ocelot II

(115,276 posts)
1. I'm sure this happened repeatedly. And since there's no attorney-client privilege
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:22 AM
Dec 2022

as between a president and WH counsel (the client isn't the president but the office of the president, i.e. the government), and executive privilege is out the window as well (see Nixon v. U.S.), they'll have to spill the beans to the grand jury. It will go a long way to prove the element of intent in charging TFG with criminal offenses.

no_hypocrisy

(45,771 posts)
3. Here's what has to be subpoenaed:
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:30 AM
Dec 2022

Memoranda from the Attorneys that they warned of illegality and client chose otherwise. Perhaps signed Disclaimers by TFG.

Attorneys cover their asses big time in situations like this.

DENVERPOPS

(8,678 posts)
21. Far, FAR worse than that
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 01:43 PM
Dec 2022

was when he was talking to foreign diplomats or leaders of other countries, in person, or on the phone, many times he insisted that the interpreter and/or person formally recording the conversation not attend certain discussions. In one case, when the conversation was completed, he reportedly grabbed the notes the recorder had taken and destroyed them. The reports also stated that this most often happened when communicating with guess who???????? PUTIN

Ocelot II

(115,276 posts)
6. I recall reading that TFG snapped at one of his lawyers (McGahn, I think)
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:35 AM
Dec 2022

for taking notes during a conversation. He doesn't like it when people keep track of what he says.

DENVERPOPS

(8,678 posts)
28. I can only imagine
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 02:25 PM
Dec 2022

that the main sewer line exiting the white house has a thing called a "Muffin Monster" installed in the sewer line. It is like a giant, in line, heavy duty garbage disposer that grinds up everything organic and non-organic and shreds/pulverizes anything coming down the line.

Prisons commonly use them........

LAS14

(13,749 posts)
4. Ah.... Would that common sense reigned in the courtroom.
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:31 AM
Dec 2022

I doubt that having someone's telling you something constitutes proof that you knew it was true.
The testimony about Eastman sounds like hearsay.

I'm actually half convinced that Trump is going to walk on the Jan 6 thing. We've heard for years that he never says anything outright. That his staff have learned to intuit what he wants. The only "evidence" of his actually saying something incriminating is the events in the car on the way home to the White House, and that, as far as we know, is only hearsay.

Common sense screams that he's as guilty as can be. Would that common sense reigned in the courtroom.

Walleye

(30,708 posts)
7. They sometimes manage to convict crime bosses who don't give direct orders either. RICO law?
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:37 AM
Dec 2022

I guess everything depends on somebody down the ladder not wanting to go to jail and telling all they know. In this case probably would take more than one witness

DENVERPOPS

(8,678 posts)
23. Wasn't the way
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 01:54 PM
Dec 2022

they finally nail the biggest mafia heads in history including Al Capone, by nailing them for Tax Evasion?????????

Now that they have Trump's accountant testifying, and Trump's tax returns, it should be slam dunk.......at least you would think......

That having been said, I won't hold my breath waiting for punishments to be reality for Trump, Republican Senators, Trump's advisors and personal staff, Secretary of whatever, etc etc etc.... Oh, and two of the biggest co-contributors to corruption, Ivanka and Jared.....

The way I see it is that regardless how corrupt or illegal any or all their actions, every single case will end up in the Supreme Court on an "emergency filing" and we all know how that will go.......

Walleye

(30,708 posts)
24. I think we expect the asshole will drop dead from natural causes before he is ever held accountable
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 02:00 PM
Dec 2022

I think Trump is counting on that

DENVERPOPS

(8,678 posts)
27. Whatever happens,
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 02:20 PM
Dec 2022

he will be elevated to be a Martyr forevermore by the Republicans and the 70 million Trump cult followers....

 

fightforfreedom

(4,913 posts)
8. Multiple lawyers telling you something is illegal is not proof you knew it was true?
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:37 AM
Dec 2022

No jury would believe that pile of horse shit.

Ocelot II

(115,276 posts)
12. The hearsay rules wouldn't exclude the testimony of the lawyers.
Sat Dec 3, 2022, 11:53 AM
Dec 2022

Hearsay isn't all third-hand statements; it's just any statement offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter in dispute (and there are many exceptions to the rule). Statements about what TFG told Eastman and the other lawyers wouldn't be offered to prove the truth of some matter, but to prove TFG's state of mind, that is, his knowledge and understanding that what he wanted to do was illegal. Also, admissions by a party aren't hearsay at all (F.R. Evid. 801), so if one of the lawyers testifies that TFG said something like, "I know it's illegal but I want to do it anyhow because they can't stop me," that statement would be admissible in a trial.

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