Bumped into a high school friend for the first time in 30 years.

[Chainfire]

I was getting my car serviced, and I was commenting on his really nice restored vintage pickup truck when I realized who he was. After the handshake and the greeting, I asked how his brothers were. That question changed the whole direction of the conversation to politics. His older brother was not speaking to the rest of the family because the guy I was talking to and the other siblings voted for Trump. It took this right winger 30 seconds to go from "Nice truck" to hateful politics. He went on to tell me how much he really hated BLM as it was a Communist front. He then checked himself for a second with the comment, "I don't know what your politics are." I just replied that I had no politics and said my goodbyes and good lucks. Fuck him, and the truck he rode in on....

Growing up in a small town you get to know just about everyone in about a ten mile radius. Of the people I grew up with, the people I knew, and the people I knew by reputation, it must be 90% or better that have gotten on the hate train. I am very curious, being that I came from the same circumstances, had the same teachers, went to the same churches, played on the same playgrounds, went to the same basketball games, what the hell happened to me? Why did my my philosophy take an entirely different path? How does it work?

[Walleye]

1. Usually or at least it used to be conversations with people about their dogs or vehicles could stay

Non-political. If even that is changing, I don’t know what hope there is for us. I have found if you complement somebody on their car or their dog, you can almost always get into a pleasant conversation with them. I hope even that’s not coming to an end

[Doc Sportello]

7. Ever take your dog to a dog park?

That used to be a place where politics or religion didn't come up. I changed my time of going to the dog park to avoid a trumper humper who like to spout his bs loudly for everyone to hear. One of several such encounters since 2016. The a-holes bring their hate to many places now and ruin everything - or try to.

[markodochartaigh]

30. I think that that is a part of the problem.

In the US we used to not talk about politics or religion. We didn't openly talk about how great it was that our grandparents had Social Security thanks to FDR, or Medicare thanks to the Democratic party in the sixties. We didn't talk about how both of those had been opposed by Republicans. We didn't talk about how courageous MLK and Bobby Kennedy were for standing up to forces far stronger than them. But the Republicans kept talking, on the radio, on TV, and now their talking points are said out loud by people on the street. Of course, because we never talked about our politics before, those who are now reich-wing don't know what our politics are. When people don't talk about something they usually assume that people who look like them and live close to them think the same as them. I think that not openly discussing issues, and politics, breeds ignorance and apathy. And ignorance and apathy are the Achilles' heels of democracy.

[FoxNewsSucks]

36. That's a big part of the problem.

Avoiding political discussion keeps them from hearing anything that might make them think.

And while I understand that a lot of liberals have reason to avoid a public confrontation, that reinforces the problem. Every time one of them spews crap unchallenged, everyone around gets the impression that it must be right because no one said otherwise.

That leads to a lot of the inattentive public voting R because they don't know better, but they "heard some stuff".

I never let them say crap without getting a response. Mainly because I'm a grouchy asshole, but I realized that the point of challenging them isn't the unlikely chance of them listening and thinking, but all the people overhearing who will then hear a rebuttal as well as the bullshit instead of just the bullshit.

A side benefit was that it made my trips to the Y a lot better as there wer 4-5 Bush lovers who became tRumphumpers that just stopped turning the tv to Fox and stopped discussing their crap around me.

I'm sure they hate me, and I welcome their hatred.

[Meadowoak]

64. +1000

[krkaufman]

86. Saw that

“… and I welcome their hatred.”

[plimsoll]

49. It was a general English speaking accommodation from the English Civil War and restoration.

Talking about politics or religion in public were considered impolite. Tensions would flair and violence would break out, so keep your f*cking mouth shut if you don't want to be shunned by all sides. The GOP broke the general rule by making it asymmetrical, not shunning the people they agree with who make asses of themselves but demanding that liberals stomp on all liberals who transgress. The general rule itself wouldn't be bad if it were practiced uniformly but if you only punish liberals for transgressions then it becomes cancel culture that the conservatives so hate.

[Handler]

134. You are absolutely correct. I decided a few years ago to not allow that type BS to go unchallenged.

It’s true my group of friends has dwindled but I’m not looking back. If I stay silent I feel complicit.

[Meadowoak]

135. same here, my group of friends has also dwindled, but then I realized

they were never friends anyway and you can't lose what you never had. And I've never been happier.

[lambchopp59]

46. Similar experience in western Arizona

Great little dog park in Kingman gives my wild Husky a chance to get his romp in on the way through. I've seen the same cowboy A-hole, strapped with bilateral pistols and a bad attitude cause immediate evacuation of all other dogs and owners from the park because he starts his loudmouth MAGA sermon as soon as his mangy pups are loose. Oh, and always with the obligatory cigarette lit right by the "no smoking" signs.
Just sheer bad luck on the timing. I use the separate area unofficially reserved for sort of unpredictable pups like my Tiago. He's soooo much an Alpha it limits the socialization aspect. Loves people with a passion but if he gets inkling of a dominance challenge... uh-oh.
I'm near retirement and Tiago is unusually protective of me as Huskys go. Once actual "that's it, done with work" swings around soon, he'll get carefully and long-process matched with a smaller mate to guard.

[Doc Sportello]

57. My first experience with this bs was in Prescott

Obviously a right wing area but sheesh the aholes can't help themselves spreading their shit all over everything. Guess if you stink that bad they think they'll smell better by spreading their shit over others. Doesn't work.

We had a gun incident at Prescott too and at the one I use now. Don't know if they were trumper humpers but wouldn't surprise me.

[Cosmocat]

130. They have absolutely no filters

nm

[Diamond_Dog]

2. Fox News and right wing talk radio?

It’s astonishing how many outwardly normal people subscribe to Fox News and the ignorance and hate. I have seen the same thing myself. Heck I am the only liberal among my sibling and cousins so I hear enough of it. I too often wonder why I turned out different from the rest.

[Chainfire]

4. Yep we are in the same flock of "black sheep."

[Rebl2]

21. I don't

remember having shows like that on tv news or radio back in the 1970’s. Then came Regan and things started changing. Seems like the two parties started disagreeing more and republicans became maybe more hateful and mean.

[Dave says]

42. Reagan was the beginning of the end of USA

For example, when Reagan took office, we owned 0.7 times more of the rest of the world than they owned of us. When he left office, the rest of the world owned 3.4 times more of us than we owned of them. A sea change in our relationship with the world. And one of several statistics that show that the Reagan prosperity was based on borrowed money and asset fire sales.

This purchase of false prosperity continues, accelerating under every Republican administration and reigned in (only a bit) under Democratic admins.

[tiredtoo]

123. Reagan was instrumental in getting the fairness doctrine removed

And that brought us Limbaugh fox etc.

[certainot]

124. the most significant thing reagan did was kill the fairness doctrine, which unleashed the RW radio

monopoly propaganda operation, altho it didn't matter who actually owned the stations. limbaugh and sons deified reagan and helped get the whole iran contra oct surprise treason to disappear.

they set up limbaugh on 600 stations, most still doing the same shit and half of them endorsed by universities and pro sports teams, and because he would only take paid callers his fawning dittoheads would make sure the other blowhards who actually took calls on those and a 1000 other stations were all on the same Limbaugh /gop page, or get screamed at and fired on issues like abortion, iran, iraq, russia, tax breaks for billionaires, etc.

the record partisanship started soon after that started, in the early 1990s when rw radio began to dominate and whoever fed limbaugh and limbaugh and all his wannabes and 1500 radio stations screamed anyone who cooperated with democrats was a traitor.

if the political 'analysts' had figured that out we wouldn't be in this disaster. while they can't be blamed for listening to the lies and stupid from those stations they can be blamed for not doing the simple math, and for not now using AI to digitize it all

[bedazzled]

50. My brother used to be normal

He listens to talk radio now and he has been brainwashed. We didn't talk for a year after I called him an a**hole for voting for trump. My aunt was shocked that he voted for trump and admires desantis. We just don't talk about politics anymore but it is sad to know he thinks like that. My only brother.

[Evolve Dammit]

59. I lost mine to Fox as well. Very sad.

[bedazzled]

62. It's odd. They are still there but a part of them is missing

I think my favorite cousin is a pod person too. Best not to ask I guess

[Evolve Dammit]

65. What amazed me is how it took over all rational thought. The Murdochs must be thrilled.

[bedazzled]

88. It's like their intelligence, empathy and soul have been sucked out

Not much chance if getting it back, I guess. Sad to live in hate and fear, worshipping monsters

[Evolve Dammit]

101. It is a real mental health problem and gets little attention. Those of us affected, that lose

friends and loved ones, are hurting and it is largely ignored. 6 years of the Orange One and a pandemic were bad enough. We almost lost our nation had the coup not failed. But it doesn't ever end. Now Musk advancing more RW crap on a giant media platform, etc., etc. It's very sad and damaging.

[bedazzled]

105. I hope these vile political lost causes eat each other

And the repubs get back to their normal level of scum. One can dream...

[Evolve Dammit]

106. "normal level of scum." Yeah that sounds right!

[Initech]

118. Fox is scrambling people's brains.

It's scary what that network is doing to people. It's an addiction for some. And now it's available 24 hours a day. I really do think they are becoming an inherent danger to this country.

[tavernier]

3. Fox News.

[Siwsan]

5. I had that happen with an old high school crush I reconnected with

We'd see each other when ever I was in LA visiting family. At first it was great. He even taught my bro and his wife how to surf.

Then, slowly but surely things became apparent. At first, controversial topics were just dropped. Then he started demeaning the intelligence of anyone who was a liberal. At times the things he said were just vile so I cut all ties.

My bro and his wife tried to maintain a relationship, asking him to just stop talking politics and stick to surfing and music but he just got worse and worse. So they also walked away. They even had to block him from Facebook.

I have had zero contact and never will, ever again but it still makes me sad.

[PatSeg]

44. Demeaning the intelligence of liberals

I've noticed that a lot among right-wingers. Sounds rather like projecting or insecurity.

I've encountered quite a few people from the past who moved extreme right and I find myself trying to identify if there were any indications that could have predicted their extreme change. Some of them had actually been fairly liberal back in the day. I know in a few cases, they were exposed to right-wing propaganda (primarily Fox News) at a very difficult time in their lives, a time when they were especially vulnerable.

There are no easy answers, but I really do try to understand how such a thing could have happened. It can really be disorienting.

[Evolve Dammit]

63. it is sad, and sadly I don't see it changing. If the pandemic didn't pull us together (and you

could argue it actually made it worse) then I don't think anything will. We could have another war and instead of coming together, it would be everyone for themselves. Your own clan would stick together and like-minded friends, but forget the rest. I have lost friends and family to covid and politics.

[Tetrachloride]

6. I just say that my whole family is blue plus

some cousins. Not all the same style.

There are some topics with a chance of common ground in a ballpark such as China. Go slow and find an item that we clearly agree on.

[John Ludi]

8. Did you ever move away

or do any serious travelling...or even go to college out of state or such?

I've found that the people I knew in high school who never left the area tended to become conservatives, while the ones who went out into the world and explored new settings and new people tended to become more liberal. Painting with a broad brush here, but that's what I've seen.

[Chainfire]

20. That may be part of the answer.

I married very young and moved away for 30 years. I was in the service, so I associated with a lot of people from other circumstances. I lived in some cities and had some interesting jobs. I sometimes wonder if some of the people I grew up with have ever been outside of our county; if they have, it was in body only, not in spirit.

Then, on the other hand, by the time I was a junior in high school, I was already beginning to paddle against the stream. While a lot of my contemporaries were gung-ho patriot enthusiasts of the war in Viet Nam I was smelling a rat. I was beginning to identify with Rockers rather than the Johnny Cash crowd.

Our school was from Kindergarten through the 12th grade, all in the same building. My senior class was about 30 people. You see the same people every day for 13 years. You all have the same teachers and preachers and community leaders. It tends to make for a homogeneous community, and for the most part it worked that way. My question is why my wife (two years younger, same community) and I, and a few widely scattered others, turned out so differently?

It the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter, but as you get older, and don't have to concentrate all of your efforts on making a living and raising children, these kinds of questions have time for consideration. I am really happy that I have a community of other misfits to come spout to and seek answers. It gets lonely out here in the (red) sticks

[WA-03 Democrat]

26. The smart ones leave n/t

[Ms. Toad]

51. Very similar story.

One room county school (average census of 13, attended by my father and grandfather), although the district consolidated with the town school when I was in the 7th grade, so I went to a larger junior and senior high school.

I was "rebelling" by the time I was in late elementary school, and in both middle school and high school successfully challenged the dominant culture (once on excuses absences for pro -Vietnam war events but not for anti, the other for a similar bias favoring sports over more intellectual events).

I escaped to Oberlin college - a very welcome respite where I was in the dominant culture (a college that was right the size of the town I grew up in), then taught for 11 years on an essentially all Black high school with the same population.

Since then I've lived in communities around the size of the second largest city in the state I grew up in, and have traveled to at least 6; other countries - attempting to learn enough of the language so I could navigate on my own, and not be that ugly American who refuses to even show an interest in the language and customs of the place in visiting.

I keep in contact, via Facebook, with quite a few of my high school classmates and members of that community. Very few surprises as to where they ended up politically. I am still aligned with the few who either rejected the Vietnam war or the sports culture (i.e. rebelled early), and those who moved away or traveled extensively. There are one or two who surprise me - and I haven't figured out what happened there (moving to the left dramatically). I am grateful that we are all able to keep in touch, even though I now live 1000 miles away - and that, if anything, I have more interaction with them on at social-political issues than we had on high school.

[John Ludi]

91. I started school

in Detroit but ended up in the 'burbs for HS, and it was a suburb that was large but really insular...and it seems to have remained that way. I live in a town or 600 people now, and after living in Detroit, Chicago, Providence, and Minneapolis, it's been a pretty big dose of culture shock.

[DownriverDem]

109. The Detroit Suburbs

are more diverse now than when you went to HS.

[John Ludi]

129. I'm sure they are, many of them.

I visit from time to time and have seen things change. Not sure where Troy stands demographically these days, but most of the people I see posting on FB from there are pretty reactionary, and it wouldn't surprise me if those changes bring that xenophobia out in them even more.

[genxlib]

25. +1000

Although there could be some question of cause and effect.

Did the people become cavemen because they were stuck in the cave.

Or did they stay in the cave because they were cavemen.

I was one of those people that got away and now I am light years different from basically everyone in my huge extended family. I have one nephew who is progressive and he is several thousand miles away too.

There is a great deal of truth in your observation whatever the mechanism.

[John Ludi]

92. Definitely a

chicken or egg question.

I lived, for a brief period, in Cranston RI, and the provincialism was huge. The neighboring town was called Johnston and there were people I got to know that never had been there, ever. The...next...town...over. Part of it DID seem like a wiring issue, and one person flat out said "I'll never go there because I don't like the type of people who come from there and I have all I need HERE".

Glad my time there was brief.

[halfulglas]

27. Also, it's often HOW you travel.

If your traveling is limited to tours where you are in a bubble of fellow Americans and you are on a schedule in which you rarely leave your group you learn almost nothing, including about yourself and how you see the world. Your trip is smooth and reinforces the beliefs you already have. You often have no reason to question why others feel the way they do and do the things they do.

However, if you are visiting family, friends or even alone and you are outside your usual comfort zone, you learn how others live, their world, and learn to question many of your preconceived beliefs. Sometimes the adjustments are gradual and subtle but cause you to look at things different when you return home.

[John Ludi]

94. I agree.

I traveled all over the country when I was in a band in the 80's, and we were pretty adventurous, so I saw a lot out there early on in my late teens. Until I stayed in some really small towns (cheap motels) I could never figure how someone like Reagan could have happened.

[oldsoftie]

112. In was a military brat & moved a lot too. You learn more that way. nt

[Skittles]

126. same

and I absolutely agree....I met and made friends in so many places and not once did I ever think I was better than any of them!

[Rebl2]

28. I have lived

in this city my whole life and the exact opposite happened to me. High school I would say I was more conservative. Stayed here and went to college and became more liberal, and even more so now. BTW I am in my sixties.

[John Ludi]

95. Definitely not

a definitive rule by any means...probably a LOT of exceptions to it. I'd imagine a lot of it depends on the city you're from too...the demographics and such.

[hatrack]

29. This - I remember a study (can't cite chapter and verse) . . . .

. . . that showed a key indicator of someone's inclination to vote for Shitstain was whether they'd lived more than 50 miles away from where they were born.

[John Ludi]

96. This doesn't

surprise me at all...especially after my time here in rural SW WI (after a lifetime in big cities).

[Upthevibe]

37. John Ludi.........

That's my exact take on things.

I moved when I was 18 y.o. My ex-husband joined the Navy after we graduated high school and we moved from our hometown of Corpus Christi, TX to Long Beach, CA, (1975-76). Long Beach was our first duty station. Then we moved to Newport News, VA (1977-1979).

When we separated, I moved back to Corpus. I had fallen in love with California and was able to come back here permanently in 1988.

Some of my friends/family who still live in TX who are progressive ended up in Austin. I've let a really close and fun longtime friendship go because of our differences in politics. I still stay in touch with the progressives.....

[John Ludi]

97. I spent

several winters in a row a few years back van-camping in various parts of the country and Texas was a place I spent a fair amount of time. It was definitely an eye-opener. Austin seemed to be very much an oasis (though I liked the Deep Ellum part of Dallas and San Antonio as well). Outside of the cities I definitely got a vibe for the Texas political slant. CA to TX must have been an adjustment.

[yonder]

38. That has generally been my experience too.

I grew up as a military brat in a blue color neighborhood which was always "home base" for 3-6 months before following dad to his new station.

Lifelong friends and acquaintances turned or remained conservative while myself, who possibly would've done the same, somehow saw the light through experience with different people and cultures.

It just kills me that people who've never lived further than a couple of dozen miles from where they were born try to convince me how things work or their worldly knowledge and experience is somehow superior to my own.

[John Ludi]

98. It's been

a major adjustment moving from Chicago to a town of 600 in SW WI. I'm getting too old and tired for the verbal gymnastics required to get people here in this area to not look at me like I fell out of a UFO.

[The Butler]

48. Could not agree more

Fifty plus year Northern California resident here but the first 18 years were spent in Clayton county Georgia. Most of my high school friends are true Bible Belt people. They love Trump vote the Republican ticket and they all stayed in Georgia.

[John Ludi]

100. That had to be

quite the transition. I moved from a condo in Chicago to an off-grid yurt in the woods of rural WI, and the town I'm officially in has 600 residents. Fortunately there are a few transplants here that I've connected with and that's been a balm and a buffer.

[LisaM]

58. Strangely, I have had the opposite experience.

I was always known in high school for being a liberal, and in fact joined a group that was for young Democrats from several area high schools. There were only three from our high school including me, and one was my best friend that I dragged along.

Fast forward to social media, where I connected with many old high school classmates. I fully expected most of them to be conservative and much to my surprise, something like 55 percent seem to be markedly progressive and some are really vocal about it.

We have a nice town and I only know of one friendship that was permanently disrupted. I have been unfriended by a couple of people but I didn't really know them to begin with so no loss.

[John Ludi]

99. It's refreshing to hear that.

I have been really lucky in that my early life was back and forth between relative suburban affluence and urban poverty...so I had a breadth of experience in my youth that not many get to have. We moved from Detroit up to a few different suburbs and ultimately went to HS in a suburb that was kind of "up and coming", but had been just kind of an insulated place before my time there...and it seems to have stayed that way all the way though all the gentrification and development that happened.

I'd say that the fellow students that stood out to me at the time as fairly smart and worldly have mostly gone on to be fairly expansive in their worldview...even some of the ones that stayed behind. Most of the rest have gone Trumpy though.

[LisaM]

103. Funny, we moved from the Detroit metro area, too.

When I was 7, we moved from Mt. Clemens to a small town near East Lansing.

I had a similar experience to you in that we spent time in the city, holidays with relatives and so on, spent summers in the near country with my grandparents (they moved there, they were Detroiters) and then did the suburb thing in the Clem, and then the small town. I have always felt comfortable in multiple environments because of this (before Mt. Clemens, we were in Ann Arbor, where I was born).

[llmart]

87. I think that you are very correct about that.

I come from a small, rural town in Ohio. Through job transfers, I have been gone for decades now, but the couple of times I've gone back I can't believe how stuck in the past my high school classmates and some family members still are. I've travelled for work and for pleasure, and worked in universities and a law school. In my jobs I met and dealt with people from all over the world. You realize how much more similar we all are than different.

I will say though that I had that itch to get out of town even back when I was getting ready to graduate from high school. I have always been curious about the world.

[John Ludi]

102. I live in a small area now

but spent most of my life in large urban areas and have traveled all over the country, and it's really given me a lot of understanding as to how much a difference that can make.

[Genki Hikari]

125. The ones who move away and can hack it in a new environment

are usually the ones who turn out liberal. The ones who never leave, or can handle only one semester of college in another town (especially bigger or far more liberal place) are the ones who become fascists.

They become cons because they can't deal with differences. They want homogeneity. They want conformity. Those are all r thug values.

[Botany]

9. What the hell happened to "them."

Hate talk radio and TV, the loss of the fairness doctrine, "the internets," billionaires spending millions
to keep the rubes pissed off at people like you and me, a population that does not read or consume
the news from different sources, generational racism/sexism/anti learning, a republican party/trump
telling these people that their stupidity is really a good thing, a deep fear of change or learning something
new, and Christo Fascist pastors and church.

[EYESORE 9001]

10. I grew up in a small town as well

I estimate that fewer than 10% of my classmates possess liberal values today. You mentioned that you and everyone there had shared experiences, and it made me reflect that I was working on a getaway plan from an early age.

[slightlv]

84. Getaway plan?!

I remember doing that even before I hit the pre-teen years. Grew up in a small town, too. We had race riots in the high school a couple of times, tho... and I ended on the other side (against teachers and cops). Felt like the proverbial black sheep there all my life. No matter what I tried or how hard I tried, I could never fit in anywhere. Always ended up a loner. However, being female, it was just assumed I'd get married right out of high school, so the "guidance counselor" never even discussed college options with me. BTW... I graduated in the top 10 of my class year.

To get to college, it looked like my way through was via the military. Dad was proud, I got to travel a little (stateside) and saw one field of work that was NOT going to be my lifelong profession! (LOL) I may have stayed in longer if I'd been in a different career field, but options were limited back then for females in the Air Force - especially one who didn't quite hit the 5' mark. I did, btw, make it through college (even tho I had a husband fighting me on it all the way -- even divorcing me with the parting words "now you'll never get that degree). What is it with deep south southerners and educated, intellectual women?! Grrrrr

Now retired, I recently realized while I may have left active duty, I never really left the mindset. It hit me that my entire work life (minus a few years here and there) have been spent in either direct government work or as a contractor, including the entire last decade and a half as a GS on post. But I loved the people and culture that I was continually exposed to in the environment, and while I still ran into bigoted (and especially) sexist soldiers, I wore my "bleeding heart liberal" badge proudly -- and still do!

[modrepub]

11. College?

That seems to be the step that separates a lot of the folks I know from High School and my particular political beliefs.

I've often pondered this myself. I really have no answer to it. But some of it (I swear) has to do with some sense that you aren't getting what you were "promised" as you came of age. The folks who feel they've been left out of a good paying and secure job or a well put together family seem to be angry. The right-wing boogeyman (bleeding-heart communist liberal/Jew/affirmative-action supported minority/femanazi/drag queen/whatever the next flavor fall person is) comes into play here. It's not your fault, someone else stole what was rightfully yours.

This whole attitude seems to fly in the face of the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mantra presented by Republicans. It's always somebody else that caused your problem, never the choices you made. And I will say being in a constant state of anger isn't healthy. Better to walk away from these people and not engage. Life is too short.

[betsuni]

107. People in the happiest countries in the world have low expectations.

In America, as Henry Miller put it, they stick firecrackers up your ass to give you pep and courage and you think you can be president one day. You're told you can be anything if you just work hard enough. America always beats other countries in high self-esteem. Great expectations, inflated self-esteem, individualism.

Then things don't work out, the anger that needs a scapegoat to blame it on.

[Genki Hikari]

127. College isn't it.

Lots of people I know who are now r fascists went to demanding universities.

What most of them have in common:

They got "vocational" degrees, for the most part: business, engineering, nursing. Or they pursued a degree in an academic field like biology or poli-sci solely to get a "good job" in medicine or law. The future cons also scorned book-learning for the sake of learning as stupid or "sissy" stuff. Their polar opposites who majored in academic subjects because they loved, say, astronomy or history or music--they tended to become liberal.

The thugs were more likely to belong to social frats or sororities. I'm sure the networking paid off in its own disgusting but lucrative way, but the Greek life made their social circle incredibly narrow. They were less likely to socialize with other races, religions or nationalities--just like when they were in high school. If they didn't belong to a frat/sorority, they still hung out with like people, and rarely stepped outside that circle. So zero expansion of horizons there.

Despite whatever social lives they had at college, they were more likely to go back home to visit family, attend social celebrations for family and old friends (birthdays, weddings, etc), or to attend events associated with their high school (homecoming or sports events). I knew one frat rat who would stay up late on Saturday partying with the other rats, but somehow dragged himself out of bed early enough to drive the 90 miles back home every Sunday morning to attend his old church. So they were more tied to their old lives than other students are.

Most of them wound up dating and (eventually) marrying people just like them. Same race, same religion, same background (types of schools, small town/burb, same family structure, and etc.). They never stepped out of their comfort zone or what their family expected of them that way.

At some point, usually within 10 years of leaving college, they moved right back home, or as close to it as they could get and still "succeed." Some of them moved to where their spouse lived, but it wasn't much of a leap to do that, because the spouse's hometown was pretty much a carbon copy of their own--and it wasn't too far away from their own town. Some of them never liked living far from the childhood home. A good portion of them moved back (or to a spouse's similar town) when their kids were old enough for school. My mother has heard a lot of "I didn't want my kids going to school with 'those' people." Or, "I didn't want them learning 'useless' stuff." Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what was meant by either remark.

Wherever they lived, once they married and started a family, they became their parents, all over again, doing the same things, going the same places, believing the same things, raising their kids the same way, buying the same stuff, living in the same type of neighborhood and even the same type of house. They thought (and still think) that's the way things were always supposed to be, and they revile those who left without looking back. To them, we're disloyal to How Things Should Be, or however it works in their world.

[hauckeye]

12. Same with me and my 2 sisters

We all grew up in small town Iowa, went to the same schools, had the same upbringing. I am the only democrat. I don’t think they are big Trump fans but they voted for him because he had the “R” by his name.

[SoBlueInFL]

13. I can't believe how the people I went to h.s. with have turned. r/o

People who were in the campus Democrats are now Trumpers. I've never been to a reunion and wouldn't even consider it. I know of only a couple of former friends who haven't changed.

GenX has become an embarrassment.

[apcalc]

14. Likely you got out. I did.

[dalton99a]

15. The urge to proselytize is strong among cultists.

[walkingman]

16. Social media has altered our perception of reality.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

17. I was an avid fisherman.

I've stopped fishing in recent years and took up other hobbies instead. Many fishing folks were also hunters, and by nature they were conservatives opposed to any gun legislation. Their never ending stream of vitriol towards Hillary, Obama, Pelosi, etc. was just too much to put up with week after week. It took all the fun out of our weekly get-togethers.

[NBachers]

18. Yeah, it's funny- I dream of returning to my little Western New York Erie Canal hometown - but

losing the population of world demographics I live in would be hard. And adjusting to the widely-accepted trumpism would be a deal breaker. It's a dream I'll still dream of, like walking past the beautiful cakes in the bakery and imagining buying one, but I probably won't actually do it.

[Chainfire]

32. You can live in the place, but you have to become a hermit.

The only reason I am here is because the land has been in the family for so long that I have become a part of it.

I just don't go to the churches, don't get involved with local politics, don't seek out social connections and limit my conversations in public places. It is a shame, because, I am not really a hermit, I enjoy other people's company, but it is just not to be. Whoever said that "No man is an island" is full of shit!

[BradBo]

19. I told an old high school friend to fuck off.

[liberalmuse]

22. I dread running into people of my generation at work, at the park, at the grocery store, etc.

I can have pleasant conversations with most younger people, a few older people, but by far and large most boomers will start getting political in under 5 minutes. After that it quickly escalates into hate speech filled with racism, homophobia then full on into crazy Q garbage if you don’t nip it in the bud which I’ve learned to do.

I’ve disliked my generation for decades and knew there was something seriously wrong with a large number of them, so much so that I want to jump for joy when I meet anyone in my age group who isn’t a selfish, addle-witted hatemonger. Even my good friend of 30 years started showing signs of becoming one of the pod people a few years ago so I’ve disengaged. I think this could be related to breathing in leaded gas fumes throughout childhood. It has to.

[VGNonly]

23. My high school was 25/1

conservative buttholes. My parents were extreme RW, so are my sibs and in-laws.

[eppur_se_muova]

24. Any chance you went away to college or otherwise spent a few years well away from home ...

military, business, whatever ?

The people who stayed at home may have never heard from anyone except the same people you did up until you left. But maybe you got to see some of the wider world. I know it changed me, and I didn't even travel abroad -- I met lots of people from abroad, who often had views of the world quite different from those of "Middle America".

ON EDIT: I see you responded to that above. Yes, it's the hermetic lifestyle that keeps people from broadening their views.

[WestMichRad]

31. Similar story here.

Grew up in rural ag part of MI, went to school in a small town. Attended a class reunion several years ago and got an earful of their BS. Never again!

I think it’s a combination of things: talk radio that pounds into them self-interest above all and that empathy is for losers (their anti-“woke” crap), decades-long opposition to “Democrats who want to tax you to death”… plus the fact that I escaped to college, where I was exposed to lots of diverse opinions and culture.

Empathy is definitely a major factor.

[Chainfire]

34. Your last sentence may be the key.

It seems if a substantial portion of my generation had the empathy beaten out of it.

I recently passed on a 50th class reunion (actually several classes from the same tiny school) I would have really loved to go talk to the people that I grew up with, but they are not the people that I grew up with any more.

[mollie8]

33. maybe...

I think a lot of it is they are willing to let someone else think for them. Both my brothers-in-law are conservative and my sisters go right along with them although we grew up with Dem values. Some of it is the way a person's brain works, determining whether they are conservative or liberal. I have an aunt who hates Trump, but her children are Trumpers. I thought sure she'd vote Dem. She hardly ever leaves her house so I offered to go with her to vote. She said she'd decided both sides were alike and her vote wouldn't make any difference. I asked her why she thought that and she said she'd been talking to her daughter, getting mailers, and watching TV. That was disappointing. I used to argue with my sons who are Trumpers but we finally decided we wanted to keep our relationship, I love them both dearly, so we rarely talk politics any more.

[CrispyQ]

35. I was born in a city & moved to a very small town when I was seven.

It was quite a change going from a non-religious, anonymous environment to a small town where everyone knew who you were & that was very religious. Eleven years later, I left for college & the only time I went back to cow town was to visit my mother. Fast forward 40 years & I stupidly went to my 40 year high school reunion. This was a year before Trump ran the first time. I accepted a bunch of friend requests on FB, but in less than two years I'd unfriended most of them. With the exception of a few, they were all trumpers, & the ones who were the most religious were also the ones who were the most hateful.

Since then, I've met many liberal Christians & the difference is striking. They appear to support democrats & inclusive policies & they don't feel compelled to bring up religion all the time, in fact they hardly discuss it at all. You can almost tell what kind of Christian someone is by the party they affiliate with.

A few years ago there was a DUer who wrote that he had grown up in a small town & had always been very conservative & never questioned how or why. Then in his early 20s he had a chance to travel internationally, & it completely changed him. He started to question his conservative upbringing & beliefs & returned to the US a liberal.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

39. The difference is, to borrow a word JHB coined, inFOXication.

The Fascist Oligarch eXtremists' propaganda network is the only thing most people in my area believe. It's 78% red, here.

[NullTuples]

77. But also, the use of the religious pulpit in a way very similar to Fox News.

The Johnson Amendment - the one that says if a religious leader endorses a specific candidate in the context of preaching, they'll lose their tax free status - has been tested, and it failed. Since 2007 the GOP via a handful of pressures ranging from GOP judges setting strange requirements to Congress blocking funding have prevented the IRS from investigating churches. Unsurprisingly, over that time right wing churches have become major influences in people's political views. Vote Republican or Burn in Hell Forever is a strong motivator, as is needing to stay part of one's close-knit community.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

90. Yes. Too many billions promoting fascism and theocracy -- from 'think tanks' to pulpits.

[NullTuples]

104. And churches are the ultimate "dark money" funnels.

No reporting of money-in, money-out like all other non-profit organizations in the USA makes them perfect for all sorts of deeds from money laundering to pastor fraud to the political influence of a few using money from countless small donations who think it's going to keep the church running.

[CousinIT]

40. I don't know but the same happened to me...

...I located several people I'd gone to high school with and soon learned of their politics (Trumpers, Q-Anon, InfoWars, bullshit propaganda, anti-abortion, homophobe/anti-LGBTQ, religious crazy, etc.) - and immediately backed off.

NOPE.

My sister has stayed in touch with all her friends on Facebook. From way back in high school. BUT - they're all Trumpist, batshit cray-cray, rightwing nutjobs living now on social security while voting for MAGAts who have outright told them they want to take it away from them and their kids. They're fine with that - actually they believe it won't happen. You know, just like people didn't believe Roe would be overturned.

Me - I don't want to be anywhere near these people.

[ShazzieB]

120. The way some people can close their eyes to what's right in front of them is astounding sometimes.

What you said about "voting for MAGAts who have outright told them they want to take it [social security] away from them and their kids" and believing that won't really happen is a classic example of how powerful the human capacity for denial can be.

People like the ones you describe have been brainwashed into believing Democrats are the "bad guys" and Republicans are the "good guys," always, in every case, no exceptions. No matter what kind of vile garbage is actually spewing from the mouths of Republican politicians, those people just can't believe those they see as the "good guys" would really take away something as vitally important as social security or medicare. They will base their votes on that gut feeling they have about Republicans being the "good guys," regardless of what Repubs are actually saying.

It's absolutely bananapants crazy, but here we are.

[CousinIT]

122. There's this, too...

Individuals prefer to harm their own group rather than help an opposing group
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2215633119

They're convinced that 'undeserving' people are getting Social Security & Medicare. There is fraud but they insist 'illegals' are getting these benefits. They're NOT. Or, that SS or Medicare/Medicaid are paying for abortions. They're NOT.

Will they vote against themselves to stop 'those other people' from getting the benefits? YES.

These relatives of mine who ALLEGEDLY "love" me, vote AGAINST me every damned time they vote Republican. It's PERSONAL FOR ME. Because they're against abortion, or those "other people" getting benefits, or 'guvmint' control, they vote Republican. THEY enjoy full social security at 65. BUT I SUFFERED CUTS TO MINE because of the way they've voted over the years. MY retirement age is 67 and when I DO get there, I get LESS than they got at 65.

IT'S PERSONALLY DEVASTATING AND DAMAGING FOR ME.

AND, if their beloved Republicans get their way, I'll wait longer and get even LESS or NOTHING when it's my time to collect.

THEY'RE FINE WITH THAT.

Here's the thing: Nobody in my immediate family is at risk of ever needing an abortion, nor are they (regardless what they're told on Facebook) subject to excessive 'guvmint' control. And "illegals" are not getting social security.

BUT SOMEONE IN THEIR FAMILY is at RISK of destitution in their old age BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY VOTE. They're literally voting for this person to have LESS or NO social security or medicare benefits when it's their time. The same ones THEY got - they want to be denied to ME.

YOU DO NOT DO THAT TO SOMEONE YOU "LOVE".

And I take that VERY PERSONALLY.

So all that bullshit about how they "love' me?

BULLSHIT!

ACTIONS speak. WORDS are worthless.

[NickB79]

41. I've had that same experience so many times

Same history too, small town kid, grew up with the same classmates since kindergarten, in a very red, rural part of Minnesota.

Guys I had great memories with from high school are now rabid MAGA's. Only a few of us got out rational.

The only common denominator is that we were the ones who traveled. Went to college, met and befriended people of different cultures and races.

[pandr32]

43. Reading your post and comments gave me an eerie feeling.

It is like a horror movie or a story from the Twilight Zone.
Who doesn't have insecurities or resentments of some kind? I think it is part and parcel of growing up in a constantly changing world. It shouldn't mean that people become right-wing nuts. That's what the very deliberate propaganda of Fox News and other right-wing media has done to ordinary people.

[hamsterjill]

45. Same here!

I grew up in a small town in Uvalde County and I just turned out completely different than most of the people I grew up with.

But, I’m glad that I did!

[jaxexpat]

47. We all grow with experience. The more impactful experiences, the greater growth.

Growth experiences are like stoplights. There is a pause in the trajectory of your life and an opportunity to change direction or proceed back onto the same path. Most growth experiences are frightening in that they challenge preconceptions, demand some thought which requires some personal introspection. If this arduous task is left undone one may remain stopped forever, turning neither left nor right and going nowhere.

That's why when I encounter a "conservative" I mostly see people stuck at the intersection of fear and laziness. They've grabbed the first easy concept, one which denies the value of change, to obsess over. In their intellectual and spiritual stagnation, they condemn all reforms and improvements of any kind. BTW, they're suckers for anybody selling resentment for hope. They've assumed their thin skin of manufactured cynicism is a sign of sophistication. What's worse, they assume everybody they meet sees it the same way.

[yobrault1]

52. You left town?

[Kali]

53. how were your parents?

my kids grew up in similar rural/small town situation. proud of all of them on their politics. but they had parents that run left.

[Chainfire]

67. That is an interesting question.

I suspect my mother was time appropriate and disinterested in politics and that my father told her how to vote. The only thing I ever heard, remotely political, from my father, was that he was voting for Kennedy, something I was not to talk about.

[Kali]

69. that IS interesting

some seeds of influence maybe sprouted. good on him. it can be hard to go against your local tribe. not sure I would have been able. I grew up in the city, parents in academia.

[czarjak]

54. Try running into one you've known for 62 years...

And the last time he told me, "That Covid-19 is the biggest hoax since that 1939 broadc ast of War of the Worlds, it'll be over in two weeks". That was 3/23/20. .

[relayerbob]

55. Why did you tell him you had "no politics"?

Stand up for what you believe in. Coulda just said, "Wow, you've really changed. That's sad. I'm sorry but I don't support that garbage. Good bye and good luck."

[Chainfire]

68. It wasn't worth it. I already have enough "enemies."

[Joinfortmill]

56. Empathy and discerning intellectual abilities.

AKA: Heart & Soul.

[Joe Nation]

60. A line from a song by a smalltown girl Michelle Shocked

"Their lives ran in circles so small They thought they'd seen it all"

[chowder66]

66. Good line!

[Chainfire]

73. I love that line. Thanks for bringing it to the thread.

I do think that that is a part of it.

[druidity33]

108. Ah, Michelle Shocked has taken the turn too...

she is now ultra religious, doesn't tour and none of her music is available on streaming services. She has said close-minded things about LGBTQI+ individuals recently and pretty much removed herself from public life. I used to LOVE her music. I've seen her 4 times... i have a hard time listening to her nowadays.

[oldsoftie]

113. Well, she doesnt make any money off music you already OWN!

Listen away!

[Ziggysmom]

61. I observed that many ex friends who turned GQP I've had to cut ties with, all seem to think that

liberals are smug coastal elites who want to control and change their way of life. Back in the FDR days, middle class working people like factory workers and farmers voted Dem. Now those same people see us Dems as the coastal elites and university snobs.

Those middle class voters who turned to the dark side don't know what's good for them. They're getting conned by magats, faux news, and tent revivalists until they believe all the lies. They don't seem to know know any better. That's why they're now regularly voting against their own self-interests.

How do we get these voters back and have them understand the truth?

[Joe Nation]

70. Not sure "we" can bring them back from the brink

I know, because I have a few family members caught up in the MAGA-verse and it isn't pretty to be around them. My wife and I no longer visit them, invite them for holidays or weddings, or even visit them when we are in town. I'm one of nine kids and our family hadn't been very close as kids, but we began to get closer as adults after our parents passed. The whole Trump MAGA craziness tore the family in half and stopped many of my siblings from speaking or associating with each other.

My older sister and I were close until her husband went full screaming tirade over a trivial political disagreement in the car on the way to their house one day. I've never seen this rather amiable man so angry. He was the kind of guy that could make a joke out of anything in years past. Everybody liked him and he was just a nice guy to be around. I don't even recognize him as the same guy anymore.

My sister just does whatever he says and has stopped communication with most of us. There may be no way back. I have had to accept that.

[Chainfire]

83. I have severed all ties with my sister, who's company I once enjoyed, and who I loved dearly.

She can not go 30 seconds without starting on a right-wing and/or Christian diatribe. It is like she is waiting to ambush us with her version of the "Real Truth." Her husband is worse. They have absolutely no respect for any opinions other than the ones that they hold. They are two well educated, financially successful people; retired college professor and school teacher. They have nothing to be so damn bitter about. They were normal before they settled in Alabama to teach in the 70s.

[halfulglas]

111. My late sister and her husband were Democrats before retiring to Alabama

in the early 2000s. Part of it is the socialization in addition to talk radio, etc. But forget the things that we used to say 20 years ago how the libs moving south would turn the South dem. I don't see that happening for a long, long time. They have to want to change and so far I think they like the way they are. They are angry they can't control us and more of the world around them.

[Mblaze]

71. I don't think it's philosophy.

I think it is open-heartedness. Trumpies’ hearts are closed. I’m glad yours is open. We need open hearts.

[AverageOldGuy]

72. Why did they take different paths?

What did you do after high school graduation: (1) Stay home, or, (2) leave, see the world, settle down somewhere else?


In my case, wife and I are 80,78.

Wife is from small town, rural Alabama. I am ditto from Mississippi. We left when I went into the Army for 30 years including two tours in Vietnam. We now are retired in rural VA near DC.

It's painful to talk with siblings and cousins who stayed in small town, rural Alabama and Mississippi. In fact, wife no longer talks to sister-in-law (married to wife's brother who died 3 years ago); has no contact with younger brother (two other brothers are dead); talks with older sister only out of concern for her health.

My brother did same as I did -- hired by worldwide engineering and construction company, spent 30 years with them. Neither he nor I have any contact with our multitude of cousins in Mississippi and Louisiana because of their rabid dedication to Trump.

Sad but they made the choice.

[sarchasm]

74. I still blame all this extreme division on Newt.

In my eyes he started this crap, and ended all sense of decorum, propriety, or decency in political discourse. My fear is that the end result will be the acceptance of authoritarianism.

My hope is in education and motivation through forums like DU, where we can learn how to spread the tenets of democracy by whatever means is most effective. Living by example is a good start, but not enough. Being vocal when confronted is essential. Mutual respect is important, but difficult when what you are confronted with is so disgusting.

[Chainfire]

79. I first became aware of how crazy some folks were in the mid 90s.

Although I was a life-long practicing Democrat at the time, I did not have the distrust of Republicans that I do today.

I worked on a construction site where a radio was blasting Rush Limbaugh all day. I was shocked that anyone would listen to, much less give credence to such a maniac. My reaction was if things were as bad as Rush said, I should take a long walk off a short pier. I thought he was a joke and the people who tuned to him were aberrations. How could anyone take that crap seriously? Well, I found out...

[Samrob]

75. Well, for starters, you didn't have the same parents.

In most cases, I have found that parents don't teach their children to think critically. It takes a lot of time and effort to do that and it means that you also have to think critically. It's generational ignorance (not intelligence) that relies on "bandwagon thinking" to get along with those in one's immediate surroundings. Small towns are great for raising kids but unless you can break away in early adulthood you are unlikely to broaden your outlook or thinking about life.

[Warpy]

76. I haven't seen anyone from high school since the 70s and I like it that way

because that high school was in Dixie. Oh, I imagine some of them woke up and didn't fall for any of the scams, there was a reason they were friends, but the ones who stayed in that town are likely TFG fans and worse. When all you're exposed to by preachers, neighbors and the local media is 24/7 hate, it's what you start to believe against your better judgment. GIGO. I'm better off with my memories and their illusions intact.

Besides, my good friends mostly left and scattered all over the planet.

[Orrex]

78. Reichwingers, especially men, generally assume that everyone thinks as they do

They spew their hateful propaganda expecting everyone to be on the same page, and if someone has the audacity to ask up, the Reichwinger says “hey, I’m just having a friendly conversation, don’t get all triggered.”

If every last Republikkkan got raptured up at this very moment, the world would be no poorer.

[CaptainTruth]

80. It sounds like you didn't allow a rich & powerful right-wing propaganda machine...

...to brainwash you with lies.

Just a guess.

[TeamProg]

81. Different MEDIA intake - different PATH. n/t

[krkaufman]

82. Get to the root of your framing and you may know

Consider your framing… “what the hell happened to me?”

I’d be willing to bet your high school friend doesn’t tend towards introspection.

[Chainfire]

89. Introspection? Interesting, I will have to think about that.

One difference that I see is that most of my contemporaries became their mothers and fathers from the glorious days of segregation, Jesus and white supremacy in Dixie Land. They stayed, and many of them now occupy their dead parents houses. My parents were broke and badly broken and not something that I wanted to emulate. I wanted out, and I found a way out. That may have been a part of it. I did not become my father.

My wife and I started out our lives together at ages 17 and 19 with the grand sum of $300.00, two days motel reservation, 2500 miles from home with no tether to the past and no hope of financial help. If it didn't leave much time for introspection, at least it taught a quick lesson in humility. (and I can still squeeze a penny until Lincoln cries uncle)

In retirement, I do now have plenty of time for introspection...thus such a thread.

[BComplex]

85. That's exactly what I've wondered about my former grade school/high school classmates.

How in the hell did they become so friggin' right wing? I'll tell you:
Newt, Reagan, Rush, Reupert....and the money that controls all the boards of directors of our media.

[3catwoman3]

93. I almost passed on my high school 50th (class of 1969) because of a classmate...

...I now refer to as a former friend, and the intolerant, preachy stuff she posts on her Facebook page. I did not want to end up sitting at her table. We have nothing in common anymore.

We first met when we were 8, when my family finally settled in Rochester NY, and were close friends all thru high school. I went off to college/nursing school, and joined the Air Force nurse corps shortly before my 25th birthday. I was stationed in San Antonio TX for 2 years, and then 2 years in Japan. Grad school in Denver CO. 4 years in the upper peninsula of Michigan and 8 years in the Washington DC area because of my husband's Air Force assignments.

She married early, for the first of 3 times, and lived in Rochester almost all her life. She and husband number 3 moved to Phoenix 3-5 years ago. Higher education described as "studied at" some sort of bible college. No mention of graduating.

I was initially shocked a few years ago when I read one of her posts that used the word "libtard." I remember thinking, "Gee, I wonder if Peg has any idea she's talking about me? Does she think everyone she knows thinks the same way she does?" Since seeing that post, I have read many comments from her that are very hostile to progressive/liberal thinking, with lots of agreement from other classmates that I used to think I knew fairly well.

In an puzzling contrast, this former friend has several times bemoaned the lack of civility and respect for differing points of view. Does she not read her own stuff?

I, as do most of us here on DU, have some quite negative opinions of RWNJs, but I would never go on a public forum like Facebook to express them. I save that for this forum, or when together with like-minded friends. I have no need to be publicly rude.

[Ohioboy]

110. I've wondered the same thing

I also came from a small town, and about 90% of the people l knew there have become MAGA. Only a small handful of my old friends have not gone to the dark side.

[chowmama]

114. There was a certain amount of it 'back in the day'

My dad (and mom) came into adulthood (and my dad, right out of the army) straight into the McCarthy days. My mom seemed to weather it ok, but my dad became about as paranoid as you can get. He read some liberal stuff and had many liberal beliefs, but we were all warned not to talk about anything political. The message was that the neighbors could, and would, hurt you. They, on the other hand, could say anything they damned well pleased. On the occasion of the Kennedy assassination (that would be the first one), Dad had to listen to somebody say "One down, two to go." He didn't feel he could safely respond.

We went to Protestant churches not for the beliefs, but for the neighbors. We attended all the neighborhood get-togethers and held our own not for any social enjoyment, but for the neighbors. My mom pretended to drink at these events for the neighbors. She lived for open bars where she could fix a glass of orange juice with ice cubes and pretend it was a screwdriver. The worst was when the host poured extra strong drinks as a favor and she had to figure out how to get rid of it without anybody seeing. The kiss of death would have been the cry "So, what - you think you're better than the rest of us?" Somehow, she managed to avoid it while seldom having to drink more than a sip, but she was miserable every minute. And not going wasn't an option.

One of the, only in retrospect, funnier memories was when we were very little. It seemed that everywhere had somebody who was probably a Russkie spy. It seemed to be a point of pride. Pity the neighborhood so bereft, so impoverished, as to be ignored by the Commies. Ours was a family that had kids much older than us. The parents were loud, they drank a bit too much, and the husband was by his own public admission pro-union. They lived two houses from us and liked to have us little kids over. They always had cookies.

So my parents told us that we were never to go over there. If we went over there for cookies, somebody might think my dad agreed with them and then he would lose his job and we would all starve. Seriously, we were told this.

Now we didn't believe it and we went over there all the time. I mean, they had cookies! Nothing happened to our family. Nothing ever seemed to happen that we ever heard of, except in much bigger places to much more important people. (I'll admit that the pro-union guy did have some trouble getting ahead, but even he didn't starve or get arrested.)

But Dad stayed afraid for the rest of his life. Towards the end, we were all together at their home and having fun, when he stopped and turned the tv on. He explained that he always had to watch the last 2 minutes of the game and all the highlights afterwards because - if somebody found out he hadn't watched the game, it might upset them. The implication was that this upset would result in something unpleasant.

This upbringing may have something to do with my personality. I hate social events, have no interest in religion whatsoever, and leave people alone until they become unpleasant. At that point, my response is somewhat left of 'Bite me'.

[davsand]

115. I finally came to think of it as an expression of values.

In my mind it all comes down to personal values. Yeah, you can ID them by their espoused politics, but it's more than that. These are frequently people that will tell you how much they love the orange pendejo and how much they hate BLM/Gay people/foreigners/anyone else not like them. It's not just a difference in opinion about the role government should play in our lives--which used to be the foundation of political discussion--it's all about the hate they feel empowered to express.

Had they said all this stuff way back in the old days my guess is that you'd have stayed away from them and written them off as miserable assholes that needed to stay a million miles away from you. They are feeling free to let their freak flag fly and it's beyond horrifying. My personal values do not align with that, and I won't apologize for it. I completely cut ties with two of my oldest friends because of this exact issue. One of them was somebody I hadn't seen in years, and after reflection I realized she'd been in my review mirror for a reason--that her personal ethics are completely lacking.

It's sad--just like being at a party and realizing your buddy pissed himself, is too drunk to notice, and refuses to leave.


YMMV.


Laura

[Hamlette]

116. you get your values from your parents, not your church or your friends or your school

[IbogaProject]

117. Your family or your innate compassion

One of those two or a curiosity to learn other perspectives. You likely paid attention when you read and you probably made some contacts outside your tight circle when you were younger.

[moondust]

119. Conformity and cohesion

tend to be more common in a small bubble that may feel the need to stick together for survival than in a large bubble with more diversity and independence.

[SunSeeker]

121. Fox News happened. It also turned our parents into raving lunatics. nt

[DFW]

128. I never see people from my high school days

I know that some of them have gone off the right wing deep end, but that others have turned out OK. There was one quiet, soft-spoken artistic guy at the high school I graduated from--I was a one-year senior coming back to the USA from living in Spain-- that was into mixed-media. I saw him once after that. In was at the Denver convention to nominate Obama in 2008. He was doing mixed-media. I guess some people find their niche early. My reaction at graduation was, OK, NOW what?

[Brenda]

131. The Biggest Difference I've noticed

is that liberal/progressive/left leaning people are intellectually curious while the conservative/authoritarian/right leaning people absolutely are not.

That doesn't mean having a college education, living in a big city or traveling abroad. It just means reading books and questioning authority and the world around you.

Some hillbillies I've known are acutely aware of the fraudulent predatory nature of Repubs and especially Trumpism.

But as already pointed out, Hate Radio and Fox really followed the Goebbels playbook well to create so many ignorant zombies.

Forgot to add Oh Yeah, the internet. In such a few short years social media and the large number of really sus websites have unleashed hell on earth. I used to surf and read a lot but now I've almost abandoned the internet because it's like I'm reading so many posts by people with serious mental illness or serious psyops crap. Don't have time for games and wasted life.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

132. I haven't been to a high school reunion. I was notified of one coming up next spring.

Your post is helping me to make up my mind.

My town had two high schools. I went to the one for white people. Pre-LBJ, separate-but-equal, yada-yada.

I'd bet a majority of that county will vote Walker on Tuesday.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

133. You somehow got vaccinated with logic and reason but your peers didn't.

Engineering school and early exposure to that big 'ole world out there away from my little country farm town did the trick.

It sickens me that many of my classmates got caught up in the cult, although my class of '65 was not that way back then. Unfortunately, I can't even go back there to visit any more. I prefer to just remember them the way they were.

Thanks for sharing, Chainfire.

KY

[flying_wahini]

136. Faux news , Hate radio and evangelicals.

[Martin68]

137. I find it really strange that the right are still scared of commies, reds and pinkos.

The whole thing about communists financing "outside agitators" was used against all social justice groups like the BLM movement back in the 50s and early 60s. The FBI, the CIA and the John Birch society all believed that shit.

[Chainfire]

138. Exactly, for how could black people fight for justice without outside influence?

[ecstatic]

139. On a side note, Fox News doesn't change who you are

I randomly happened upon fox news when I was around 19 years old. Had never voted. Didn't align myself with any party. Wasn't into politics. But I started watching when I happened upon a provocative show from an asshole--the disgraced, deplatformed Bill O'Reilly. I disagreed with everything he said but I couldn't look away. So I would hate watch him every night. I would send emails, one of which was read on the show. Lol. Then I started hate watching other shows on the network. Nowadays I can't stomach any of it but that's what I did back then.

Anyway, my example suggests that Fox and hate radio can't change a normal, empathetic person into a right-wing asshole. Even when they're a blank slate. The right wing asshole has to already be there, waiting to hatch or further emerge. And I hate to use the term "right-wing asshole" because it sounds rude. Call it a mean streak. The thing is, a lot of people with that streak come across as the nicest people you'd ever meet. But the streak is there, lurking beneath the surface.

[shrike3]

140. Just found out someone a year ahead of me in school transitioned.

She is still married to her wife. (Good for them) Looks incredibly happy, too. I can't imagine the courage that must have taken, since we grew up in a very small, conservative town. From what I've seen, almost everyone else from there is a Trumper. They -- wisely -- live in the kind of large city where there is lots of support.

[Prairie_Seagull]

141. Where the hell are the left leaning billionaires? Do they exist?

Right leaning billionaires are happy to spend money for a desired outcome. They are certainly having their desired effect on America. If left leaning billionaires don't exist then we need to rethink our strategy. A thinking persons democracy can push back against some of these effects, but is that what we have?

IMO, back to the drawing board.