Do you have paid sick days? I don't, only "personal time off" that has to be used for sick leave

[Silent3]

is that common these days? As a software engineer, that's what I've been living with for some time now.

Unlike railroad workers, however, it's at least easy for me to use my "PTO" time for sick days as needed. Technically I have to get approval, but it's pretty much an expected rubber stamp. I've never had trouble simply taking a day off whenever I needed to, without prior notice.

It still sucks that I have to sacrifice what could be vacation time for such things. Other companies I've worked for gave 5 days of sick time per year in addition to vacation time, but it's been a while since I had that.

I'm working from home full time now, so my decision to use PTO for sick time is mostly a decision about how much rest I'd like to get, and fortunately not a matter of risking other people getting sick if I don't take the time off.

[Lars39]

1. It's wage theft.

[AggressiveCanary]

49. No its not

That's an insult to real wage theft victims.

[Lars39]

51. Theft no matter what you call it.

My husband once worked at a place that went from x amount of paid sick days and x amount of vacation days per year to a PTO amount that was the same as his vacation days. That’s theft.
Paiid time off that is supposed to cover both sick days and vacation is shortchanging one or the other to your detriment.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

2. As a Fed (retired now), I sure did. 13 sick leave days a year, and could carry it over indefinitely.

I had a substantial amount of time added to my length of service time (which increased my pension) when I retired thanks to my accumulated sick leave.

[CatWoman]

11. we accrue both annual and sick leave

but can only carry over 240 hours of annual leave.

I donate my leave to needy people. One guy is recovering from cancer, and his wife made me aware -- so I donated a ton of hours to him.

[48656c6c6f20]

3. I have something they call unlimited PTO

I haven't put it to the test yet haha. I don't know what would happen if I took a month off. But it's in the company handbook. So..

[Silent3]

13. I had that once. Didn't trust it at all.

I was only at that job for about 10 months before I got a better job closer to home. I got a strong impression that you looked bad to management if you used very much of that time, and I think many people actually took less time off than they would have with a clear, fixed amount of time being available.

[Ocelot II]

4. At my old job I retired from we had PTO days, a fairly generous number,

and calling in sick wasn't a big deal (I rarely did it), it was just part of your PTO time. But when I first started at the job, they had separate vacation and sick days. One guy I worked with never took any vacation, and when he retired he was owed a huge amount of unused vacation pay. Apparently this was a fairly common practice, and it became an accounting problem for the company because employees' accumulated unused vacation time had to be carried on the books as debt. So they finally changed it so you had to use your vacation days during the year you accrued them. Eventually, after a merger, sick days and vacation days were merged into PTO days. And then I took early retirement with a severance package so I didn't have to move to Atlanta.

[TexasBushwhacker]

16. Before Amazon bought it, Whole Foods had pretty generous PTO

You got 15 days after your first 2000 hours and you got it whether you worked full time or part time. Full timers generally got it after 1 year, part timers longer depending on their schedules. You coulder carry over unused time and get compensated for it when you left the company. You could even donate your time to other workers that needed it.

[ProfessorGAC]

54. Same At The Company I Retired From

Had to use them or lose them, but certain extenuating circumstances could be used (with EVP approval) to carry over, or taken as pay. Rarely allowed, but not impossible.
We did have 13 months to take that year's vacation. So, January vacation days could have been from the prior year.
Unused by 1/31, and the earlier scenario kicks in.
Personal days did not accrue, so the first 4 days off every year were PTO. Then I'd start taking my 28 vacation days.
Because I traveled so much, my vacation days were taken a day or two at a time, so I only had to work about 11 5 day weeks a year.

[Shermann]

5. For me the transition was a little over five years ago

There are pros and cons to the straight PTO model. There is less of a burden to have to provide legitimate excuses, you can just take the days. Also, the old model sort of rewards those who take a lot of sick days.

However now I am sick, and it is towards the end of the year when my PTO days are already planned out. So, there's that.

[tulipsandroses]

6. I don't. I'm a nurse practitioner. A dirty secret in healthcare

Many of us do not have paid sick days. Even in a previous job that I had sick days, it always felt like a pain to use it.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

7. Nope! I don't get sick days either, just PTO...

... which requires advance notice.

A married couple works there, who recently had a baby, and they took full advantage of FMLA to maximize their time away from that place. While they were off work for a few weeks, I heard a manager and supervisor griping with each other about that federal law. Those two employees should've still been at work every day, according to them.

Pretty typical among my work life experiences over the years. I even worked at a company, years ago, in which the owner said that his company was more important than employee families! He said that during an impromptu meeting, after several employees had complained to supervisors about our 12-hours a day, 7-days a week work schedules. I was the only employee who immediately quit, and I wasn't even one of the employees who had a spouse or children. (I actually didn't mind all of that overtime pay at the time.)

EDIT: I honestly believe that many working-class Americans aren't too concerned about living under a tyrannical government anymore, given how they're accustomed to it at their jobs.

[NickB79]

8. No. I'm in the Teamster's Union. We use a point system at work

You can get 8 points a year before being fired. A full day missed is a point. A late punch, early out punch, or half day is 1/2 point. It applies to any reason: sick employee, sick kid so you can't come in, car problems, blizzard, hung over or still drunk (that's REALLY common), etc.

But, if you're out for more than two days sick, you can get subsequent days waived if you bring in a doctor's note. So missing a full week with the flu only costs two points as long as you see a doctor or even hit the urgent care clinic.

Plus, management has some discretion to waive points. With the labor shortage the last couple of years, it happens more that someone might hit 10 points and still be employed.

All of these are unpaid days off though, but we get paid almost $30/hr with plenty of OT, so no one is hurting for money in our facility.

[Abnredleg]

9. I had both sick and vacation days

It was a government job in NC. We couldn’t rollover more than 240 vacation hours at the end of the year but could accumulate sick leave. When I retired I had enough sick leave saved up to add an additional year to my pension - vacation time was paid in a lump sum.

[doc03]

10. When I retired in 2010 we had 5 personnel days, no

sick days. Now that I am 74 they are all sick days

[petronius]

12. I accrue 8 sick hours per month, which roll over with no limit

At retirement, they convert into additional service time for pension calculation. I don't get vacation time, but as faculty I 'officially' do my year's work in 9 months = summer off...

I also get one personal day per year, which doesn't roll over.

[mike_c]

40. same for me, also union faculty

We can also donate accrued sick leave to others, including colleagues in different bargaining units.

[petronius]

57. Pretty sure we have the same union, if I remember your past posts correctly

I'm at the Poly in the middle...

[mike_c]

58. howdy, neighbor!

Yep, I'm at Humboldt. Well, for another two weeks or so. I'm finishing a five year FERP this semester, gonna retire for real. We've already moved to Arizona. I started in 1997. Where the hell did the time go?

[LiberalArkie]

14. I think sick days have been converted to "Personal Days Off". Where I used to work I started with

7 sick days a year that a person could take. They were paid if the employee brought back proof that they were sick. They ended up being changed to 10 personal days. No dig deal, no doctors slip.

[gibraltar72]

15. Had a best friend who worked on railroad.

He was always on call eventually became an engineer. If they called he had two hours to report no excuses report or be written up. Yeah he made a shitload of money but the toll it took on him.

[LakeArenal]

17. Retired now. Always had sick days and vacation days.

The elimination of unions has affected benefits.

PS. Used to have HMO with no co pays

Used to included oral surgery or crowns.

Used to pay $150 towards glasses glasses.

Used to get time and a half for any bit over 40 hours.

Used to have dollar for dollar match in 401K

[iemanja]

18. Yes, I do

In addition to 4 weeks PTO per year.

[Iris]

19. Yes- state university system - 12 days/year. They carry over. Vacation days are separate.

[Elessar Zappa]

20. I was lucky.

Every job I’ve had (except for Sonic when I was in college) has had sick leave and vacation time.

[OnDoutside]

21. I never actually thought of it.

Here in Ireland I worked for a US pharma company 30 years ago and again over the last 4 years. If I was sick, I'd only have to produce a doctor's note on the 3rd consecutive day absent. If I was long term ill for up to six months, my salary would still be paid.

In smaller companies new law is coming in which will allow 10 sick days by 2026

Btw, is 10 days annual holidays still the standard in the US?

[Silent3]

23. I think that's very common. It has been for me.

Our time off is, of course, woefully limited compared to European standards.

What I get is:

10 standard holidays
1 personal holiday
1 volunteer activity day
15 PTO days (which will become 20 next year as I enter my fifth year with the company I work for)

At first there wasn't any rollover of unused PTO days. Now we can rollover 5 days per year (with permission from management), but no long-term accumulation is allowed, so you can't turn unused time into a big payout when you leave your job.

[OnDoutside]

25. That's excellent.

Apart from our public holidays I get 25 annual days off, although I should have asked for 30 because when I suggested 25 in response to their initial 20 offer, they agreed immediately! Doh!

My wife has 33 days including 6.5 for working 40 hours a week but being paid for 39. I'd happily take extra days off instead of a payrise.

[SharonClark]

53. That's more generous than people got when

I was working. 20 days of PTO took 12-15 years to accumulate. I loved the switch to PTO from designated sick leave or vacation time. It is more fair to all employees.

[Thomas Hurt]

22. I have one or two sick days only, beyond it is PTO/Vacation time.

We also have flex time in my company.

[CatWoman]

26. what is "PTO"?

[Silent3]

27. "Personal Time Off"

It's sort of a combination of sick time and vacation time, a common bucket of time that is what you have available to use for either purpose.

[nuxvomica]

24. We get some number of sick days plus unlimited PTO

I used to get 4 weeks vacation a year but since UPTO I've struggled to take that same amount of time. And at least once a year (maybe more, I'm not sure), everybody gets the same non-holiday day off for "Mental Health Day." I have also been working remotely (not remotely working) since March 2020. I'm also on-call, 24/7, one week out of every four so it's not as great as it sounds.

[Deuxcents]

28. Before I retired, I had sick days, vacation, holidays n my birthday

I had a good job n my union bargaining was good for us. I’m very thankful now.. it wasn’t always about a raise. The mindset was pay it forward b/c it was done for us

[GoodRaisin]

29. We had no sick days or PTO.

If you got sick you were expected to make up the hours or use your vacation. New employees got 2 weeks vacation a year and that would build up to a max of 4 weeks a year as you gained more years of service.

Working while sick was like the red badge of courage around our offices.

[Silent3]

45. If you used vacation time for sick days, that's essentially what PTO is.

PTO isn't generally in addition to vacation time, it's a replacement for it that sick days have to come out of. You essentially had PTO by another name.

[Chautauquas]

30. Before I retired I had 15 sick days a year

and any unused sick leave got carried over to the next year. When I retired all the accumulated sick leave went to continuation of my health care plan, so I was covered for several years by that.

[obamanut2012]

31. Yes, 12 hours a month

It rolls over every calendar year, up to 550 hours. I have literally 475 hours banked.

Annual is 15 hours a month.

Our pay sucks, so this and our good medical is how they keep us.

[Chainfire]

32. The first third of my career, I had nothing; work and hour, get paid for an hour. Period.

The middle third of my career I took off when I was sick or wanted time off, with pay; No set limits. The final third, I got two weeks annual leave, two weeks sick leave, and a bunch of paid holidays. When I left, I got paid for a lot of annual leave time that I never took, and forfeited a pile of sick leave. I used less sick and vacation time when it was not limited....

[Freethinker65]

33. Permanent part time retail

I worked over 1/2 time for the year and get a bank of PTO/sick time along with a bank of regular PTO. PTO/sick time cannot be rolled over into the next year.

[Aristus]

34. I get PTO; Paid Time Off.

It’s a general pool from which to draw sick days, vacation days, and continuing education days. I have a fairly generous contractual allotment, but that won’t stop me from continuing to support increased benefits for hourly workers.

[Johnny2X2X]

35. We gave unlimited permissive time off now

But we used to get 4 weeks of sick time in a rolling 12 month period. Also 4 weeks vacation and 1 week personal time off.

Since we went to permissive we’ve also been work from home mostly. Just went back to a hybrid system this Summer which I love.

Outside of Holidays I’ve taken a little over 3 weeks off this year.

[FreeState]

36. I do but can't take them - same with PTO

The company I work for I would never recommend to anyone and I’m ashamed at myself for still working for a corporation where the owner makes multi-million off of the employees and doesn’t give raises or cost of living increases.

[Xavier Breath]

37. Never have quite been able to square

the whole PTO concept, but that's largely due to having been with the same company for multiple decades and said company having separate silos for Vacation and Sick hours. So, that's the system I know. Thing is, they gave us tons of sick time, but if you used more than a few days in a year, you'd hear about it in your annual review.

[Iggo]

38. I have PTO (Paid Time Off) in lieu of sick days.

I can use them for sick days or whatever else I want to use them for. These accrue over time every year, and they buy them back at the end of the year, or I can roll part or all of them over to the next year.

And this is PTO, not vacation days. Vacation is a whole ‘nother animal, and it’s where the benefit theft comes in. Our vacation days are use it or lose it, even though they are earned over years of employment. (When pressed, they back off from this policy. Still…ya gotta press ‘em.)

[FakeNoose]

39. My company changed its "sick days" policy over 10 years ago

... because they finally recognized that some employees took "sick days" when they weren't really sick. But those same ones who took sick days for an unannounced vacation day would still get sick later in the year when they didn't have any sick days left. They were the ones who showed up at work sick, spreading their cold and flu germs around to the healthy employees.

It was finally recognized at my company that it was stupid to call them "sick" days. The term was changed to "personal" days and people were no longer forced to lie about taking a day off, when really their child needed something or their car wouldn't start, or whatever reason. Every employee got 5 days of paid leave for "personal" reasons. You didn't have to explain to your boss why you're taking off, it's just "personal."

By the end of the year, the employees who never used their "personal days" were reimbursed with extra pay for those unused days. It was really a better way to handle the entire issue. The employees who never got sick, who usually filled in for the ones who call off on short notice, got over their resentment when they received the extra pay.

[H2O Man]

41. Depends.

I didn't while working on farms, putting septic systems in, cutting fire wood, or in a factory. I did in both human service jobs.

[mobeau69]

42. PTO benefits the company and screws the workers.

Vacation is earned and if you quit or get canned you will not get reimbursed for any days that might not have been taken. If you quit or get fired they have to pay you for what you’ve earned.

[Lars39]

52. Thank you!

[mobeau69]

61. Amazing how many people don't see it for what it is.

Besides screwing the workers if they quit or get RIFed, it also improves the company's balance sheet to make it look better to investors or potential buyers. If the company is sold there's no obligation by the buyer to pay the employees for any PTO they think they have in the 'bank".

[Lars39]

62. I never thought in terms of a possible sale, but you're right!

Workers get screwed.

[The Revolution]

43. The way to think about it

Is maybe not so much that you are sacrificing vacation time, but that the sick days and vacation days are pooled together, so you should hang on to a week or so of those for sick days and not plan them for vacation.

If you end up not being sick, then those are bonus days you can take near the end of the year or roll over for next year, depending on the policy.

Of course this assumes that your employer is really taking days that would be sick days and adding them to the PTO pool.

I've always had PTO, under various forms. Originally, you got all the hours upfront and could sell them back at the end of the year (or carry over some). Then they switched to an accural system, but you could go to a negative balance of 3 days or so.

Now we have flexible time off, which is basically the same, but you don't accumulate time or anything, just take what you need, with approval. I basically track it as if I were still accuring time with limits, just so I know I'm taking enough.

[sakabatou]

44. While I was working, no.

We had to call in and hope someone could fill in for you.

[beaglelover]

46. Yes. Large entertainment, sports, news company.

[catrose]

47. I worked for a big corp for over 10 years as a contractor

I could take off all the time I wanted. Just wouldn't get paid. I used to start working extra hours in October so that I could have time off for holidays. They closed the firm for the last week of the year and most real employees were gone as of Dec 15.

One year some bright bean counter thought they could help the year's numbers by furloughing all contractors at the first of December (with no notice, of course). Our invoices for December wouldn't be submitted until January, so they didn't save a dime. After that, I acted as though it might happen again.

A few years ago, my city declared that ALL workers would have 3 sick days each year. The Republican legislature went into high gear and declared that the city couldn't do that and it was SO UNFAIR to the businesses. We're a little blue island in a big red state, but it's beginning not to matter.

[drmeow]

48. I also have personal time off

but I actually prefer it. I used to get vacation and sick time - but I was only allowed to use the sick time if I was truly sick (I could not use it, for example, to stay home if repair men were coming to my house to fix something - so I would oddly wake up with a migraine on the same days that a repair man was scheduled!). Now I get the same amount of total time but I can use it any way I want. Since I have only taken 1 day off due to illness since March 2019, I get to use all that sick time to take vacation. The sick time rolled over in perpetuity but did not get paid out if I left the position but 1 year's accrual of vacation time did. Now I can roll over up to 1.5 years accrual of time off and 1 year pays out.

It all depends on how much total time you get. If you got 14 days of vacation and 5 days of sick time and now all you get is 14 days of PTO, yeah, that totally sucks. But if you got 14 days of vacation and 5 days of sick time and now you get 19 days of PTO it is potentially better for you.

[SYFROYH]

50. I have over 1,200 sick hours acrued, 150+ days

I've started using them more for mental health days, I'll never use them all.

[ProfessorGAC]

55. We Had Them

No questions asked unless it was for more than 3 consecutive days, or more than twice a year.
So, technically there were 6.
That was for salaried ranks. I don't remember details for hourly (mostly unionized) folks.
It was different by site, as i recall.

[Straw Man]

56. Yes -- I used to.

I was a community college professor. I used accrued sick days to take an entire semester off in the middle of COVID, when my school was unwilling to provide me with a remote-only courseload to accommodate my immunocompromised status. I could have taken them to court through my union, but opted for the path of least resistance. Then I retired.

[Solly Mack]

59. Yes

[Moosepoop]

60. I live in Michigan, which has a paid sick time law.

That law currently covers hourly employees who work more than 25 hours a week, and dictates accrual of one hour of sick time for every 35 hours worked. The employer is only obligated to pay out a maximum of 40 sick hours a year, even if the employee has accrued a higher amount (though the employer can pay out more if they wish). Unused sick time does not roll over to the next year (unless the employer chooses to do so).

Barring being overturned on appeal, the sick time law is set to change in February. It would cover all employees, including 25 hours a week or less, would accrue at one hour per every 30 worked, and would obligate payout of up to 72 hours in a year (if accrued). Unused time would carry over to the next year. This new law has been appealed, and is being decided now. Hoping it doesn't get shot down.

Being a full time employee, I do have the paid sick days, of which I earn the current maximum payout of 40 per year. The privately owned but national company that I work for provides both vacation time (based on length of service, currently 2 weeks for me, increasing to 3 next year), and paid sick time to full time employees. The sick time is a set number of days based on length of service, except for in states like mine with their own distinct laws.

So yes, I get a generous amount of both vacation time and paid sick time. Either one can be used for any purpose -- nobody asks for documentation of illness or anything. I'm very fortunate, and I know it. I've been without any form of paid time off in my life, and it's horrible to work under those conditions.

[maxrandb]

63. I earned 30 days of vacation every 12 months

Didn't call it sick days, but if I was sick, I could usually just call in sick, of course, I could also go to "sick-call" if I needed so, and depending on my illness/injury, I could get either a "no-duty" or "light-duty" chit.

When they pulled my 4 Wisdom Teeth on the same day I got a "no-duty" chit, but did have to "double-time" it back to the barracks.

It was better vacation days, healthcare and sick "leave" than any private sector job I ever had.