Neal Katyal throws Justice Clarence Thomas' own words back in his face during Supreme Court hearing

[Deep State Witch]

https://www.rawstory.com/supreme-court-clarence-thomas-katyal/

Former acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal was the lawyer who appeared before the Supreme Court to argue in the Moore v. Harper case, and he not only came prepared, he came prepared to go after the justices with their own words.

As the counsel for Common Cause, Katyal walked through the ways in which the Supreme Court inserted itself into the state laws after previously saying that they were leaving laws up to the states to decide, which is yet another contradiction. That said, the courts claimed "states rights" for abortion but then blocked it for gun regulation.

The exchange between Katyal and Thomas began with the latter saying that he'd been wanting to ask the lawyer questions for 30 years, drawing laughter from the Court crowd.

Katyal fired back: "I've waited for this case for you because it goes to exactly how you interpret the constitution, with history." He went on to explain how the history of the courts shows just how wrong the Republican side is.

[Bayard]

1. Katyal can win this if anyone can

[Duppers]

27. 👍 You're so right: Katyal is a force to be reckoned with.

Last edited Wed Dec 7, 2022, 09:32 PM - Edit history (1)

He has argued more than 45 cases before the Supreme Court which include striking down the Guantanamo military tribunals, successfully defending the constitutionality of the Voting Rights Act, and successfully defending the Peace Cross in Maryland.

Source:

https://www.dartmouth.edu/trustees/biographies/katyal_neal.html

[AZ8theist]

50. Wait, What?? Clarence Thomas SPOKE??

...has to be fake news...

[Duppers]

60. 😅

[3auld6phart]

65. Reckon

One of the Lady justices nudged him, that was being spoken too. It would be great to see him aGinni nailed to the cross someday soon. I’ve No skin In your politics, But I’m extremely pleased to : Senator Wonker getting elected.

[stopdiggin]

83. and will crawl back into silence going forth

with certain proof that path works so much better for him (and the law).
----- -- ------- ----- ---

[soldierant]

70. I wouldn't watch Fox News, but

I expect those who do are going to behearing

"Katyal is a racist" in 3... 2... 1...

(uness I'm already late).

[mahina]

75. It was a thing of beauty. He starts a little after 1:47

https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/audio/2022/21-1271

[gratuitous]

2. Yeah, the conservative majority is a bunch of hypocrites

And they'll laugh all the way back to chambers as they reverse-engineer every last opinion their financial benefactors want. Yeah, "states rights" when it comes to abortion, but not on firearm regulation or legalization of drugs. The experiments in the laboratories of democracy are supposed to oppress the vulnerable, not inconvenience the hoi megaloi.

[drmeow]

49. Exactly -

They don't actually care what the arguments are, they WILL be imposing their will, come hell or high water.

[alterfurz]

52. "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition...

...to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." -- Frank Wilhoit

[Genki Hikari]

63. Which, like all things to do with the r thugs.

Always comes back to this John Kenneth Galbraith quote:



Everything they do is to justify their abhorrent selfishness.

[Marcuse]

72. Nt

[EarnestPutz]

92. Haven't heard Galbraith quoted in a long time. He was more than a "Harvard Economist", as he.....

.....was usually described, but a real intellectual and a humanist of the first order.

[mahina]

76. Bingo.

[BComplex]

84. That's a quote for the ages!

And so unfortunate for the majority of us.

[Midnight Writer]

3. Notice lately conservative Supreme Court Justices mocking lawyers and other members of the Court.

Is this something new? Or unusual? Or am I just noticing it because of the media focus on the Court's proceedings?

It comes off, in print, anyway, as being arrogant and frivolous.

[bluesbassman]

10. I've noticed that too.

Scalia was generally a nasty piece of work, but most of the Justices kept close to decorum. Since they’ve become a super majority and faced ZERO accountability for the bald faced lies they told at their confirmations, nor any consequences for their blatant disregard for conflicts of interest, they now feel emboldened to be their worst selves.

Packing the court is our on recourse now as they will only get worse as time goes on.

[Mister Ed]

21. The court has already been packed.

We desperately need to find some way to unpack it.

[bluesbassman]

33. Unless somebody resigns or dies, adding Justices is the only viable option.

How else would we balance out the scales?

[Hekate]

43. Mr Ed is reframing the argument, & I agree. "Packing" sounds as bad as "Defund the police"...

… to the average ear. Our intent is to “restore” and “rebalance” the court.

If in the process we rescue it from religious fanatics, so much the better. If it involves adding a few more Justices (at one point in history there were 12, after all) so be it. If the Senate can make it so they no longer have a lifetime term without any oversight at all, but instead 10 or even 20 years of service with a code of ethics equalling that of all other federal judges — hallelujah.

I’d be happy to explain that to someone who wants to know how we plan to restore and rebalance the High Court. Framing is really inportant.

[Evolve Dammit]

51. "...lifetime term without any oversight at all.." Herein lies part of the huge problem.

[OMGWTF]

53. Unelected lifetime term unbound by any ethics rules ...

[bluesbassman]

57. Thanks Hekate. That makes sense.

I tend to have a short fuse when it comes ti what’s been done to the court.

[ancianita]

68. +100

Think they'd do this in the 118th Congress?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

74. "Framing is really important."

Rs get this & that accounts for a lot of their success at getting away with murder.

[CrispyQ]

93. It's like our side doesn't believe in marketing.

We are 40 years behind the eight ball on framing the debate. Back in the 80s the right started funding think tanks to craft their message & the bought radio stations to broadcast it, while our side was running as fast as it could from the word liberal cuz a two-bit actor, who thought ketchup was a vegetable, poked fun at the word.

We have charts galore that show democrats are better at the economy yet the myth persists that republicans are. Republicans reject policies that help the average American family yet still claim the title of being the party of family values. Republicans are happy to fund tanks and bombers for the military, but healthcare for troops who come home, not so much. Our corporate-owned, conservative media is a huge part of the problem, but at times it feels like we don't even try.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

99. Sorry I missed your reply before now,

but I agree with you completely. If the Dem party would get better at marketing, we could make this country so much better for everyone. (Well except for the people who wish Hitler got more respect.)

[carpetbagger]

82. Declaring the current court a political body unworthy of stare decisis

Put the pressure on them to at least pretend like Roberts. Then win elections and change the court, but I still think we're 2 senators away from expanding the court.

[halfulglas]

88. When you consider the fact that the population of the US has increased so much

Since the 1930's, it's only fair to "rebalance" the Supreme Court to keep up with population representation and the demand of cases filed. Also to increase the lower federal courts. It sometimes takes years for a case to wind its way through the higher courts. This isn't frivolous. The increase would also lessen the cloud that any one individual justice would have on the court decisions.

[Texin]

85. Yeah, they've just all collectively declared it safe to pull off their Klan hoods.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

11. I notice that too. Some of the replies are flippant, disrespectful, unprofessional. nt

[calimary]

22. And a little bit smug.

I get a whiff of “HAHAHA, you can’t touch me!” And maybe that’s what we should target for change.

NO MORE LIFETIME APPOINTMENTS.

INCLUDING every last one of them on the High Bench NOW.

[mitch96]

39. Sounds like some doctors I worked with...nt

[SunSeeker]

25. Alito's AshleyMadison.com jab directed at Kagan was breathtakingly bad.

I've never heard of anything like it before. Personal, profane insults directed at other justices on the bench is unprecedented. Alito is a horrific homophobe. I wonder if he directed that at her because he suspects she is gay, as the right wing rumor mongering has said she is.

[ShazzieB]

30. Probably.

He's certainly skeevy enough.

[ITAL]

31. Not as bad as Justice James McReynolds

He was a real piece of work.

[orthoclad]

56. Hell, he cited a 1600s witch-burner in Dodd

What else can we expect?

[Garibaldista]

71. Wait. How does Justice Sam "Holier Than Thou" Alito

...know about AshleyMadison.com ?

And what's up with his obsession over dating sites?

Oh, where is Larry Flynt when we need him?!

[SunSeeker]

73. Yes, Alito SO needs one of Larry Flynt's parody treatments in Hustler.

But even more than that, he needs to be off the bench.

[Garibaldista]

100. well, that too, but....

...I had in mind some of Flynt's activities to expose the hypocrisy of right wing conservative reactionary politicians as described in this paragraph from Wikipedia:

"Flynt repeatedly weighed in on public debates by trying to expose conservative or Republican politicians with sexual scandals. He did so during the impeachment proceedings against President Clinton in 1998, offering $1 million for evidence and publishing the results in The Flynt Report. These publications led to the resignation of incoming House Speaker Bob Livingston. In 2007, Flynt repeated his $1 million offer and also wrote the foreword to Joseph Minton Amann and Tom Breuer's The Brotherhood of Disappearing Pants: A field guide to conservative sex scandals, which contained some cases published by Flynt.[43]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Flynt

[SunSeeker]

101. Yes, money well spent! nt

[uponit7771]

42. +1,

[BootinUp]

4. K&R

[madamesilverspurs]

5. Encouraging.

But I'm hoping for a report from source other than Raw Story, which requires wrestling skills and multiple fly swatters to read. Seriously, the site gives me a headache.


.

[mopinko]

6. i remember when it was banned here. ah the good old days.

parasites.

[barbtries]

13. me too.

i steer clear of the Daily Beast also.

[ShazzieB]

35. Yes.

I used to like the Daily Beast, but the site has devolved into an unreadable fuster cluck. It used to look like a news site, but now it looks like some kind of click bait trash site. And those pop ups that demand you to register to "unlock the article you're trying to read are just plain obnoxious. No thank you.

[skypilot]

15. I am tempted...

...to make your post my new signature line. It vividly describes how I feel about Rawstory.

[Unwind Your Mind]

66. Lol

It is a nimble turn of phrase

[mahina]

26. agreed. here are some

Supreme court audio https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/audio/2022/21-1271

Supreme court transcrpt avail there too

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/supreme-court-oral-arguments-in-moore-v-harper-discredit-election-theory-that-could-undermine-democracy/

Today, the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments* in Moore v. Harper, a case that could strike a major blow to free and fair elections. At least three justices in the court’s extreme conservative majority signaled their openness to adopting a discredited theory—the independent state legislature (ISL) theory—that could hand partisan state legislators potentially limitless power to manipulate election rules and draw unfair congressional districts. This theory—which even many conservative leaders deem meritless—could upend the nation’s system of checks and balances and undermine the emergence of a truly representative democracy. The Supreme Court would be wise to reject any form of the ISL theory when it issues its decision in this case next year.

As discussed in a recent Center for American Progress report and explored in today’s oral arguments, the ISL theory relies on a recklessly narrow reading of two clauses in the U.S. Constitution to assert that state legislatures—and only state legislatures—have the authority to set election related rules and draw congressional maps. Among others, the Claremont Institute’s John Eastman—the discredited lawyer to former President Donald Trump—is pushing this argument. Eastman’s amicus brief resembles those filed by several interconnected, right-wing organizations that have led an ongoing effort to restrict voting rights and sabotage valid election results.

Michael Sozan

Today’s arguments and numerous amicus briefs warn of the danger the ISL theory poses to free and fair elections
Today, counsel for the petitioners David Thompson argued unpersuasively that the high court should adopt the ISL theory and send this case back to North Carolina, where legislators should have sole authority to draw congressional maps, unfettered by the state’s constitution or courts. In trying to remain consistent with Supreme Court precedent, the petitioners’ counsel admitted that state legislatures are subject to various state-constitutional procedural requirements but argued that courts cannot set substantive constraints, as he said the North Carolina courts did.

The respondents’ attorneys, Neal Katyal and Donald Verrilli, both former U.S. solicitors general, alongside current Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar, cogently argued that the ISL theory would trample on well-established legal precedent and constitutional principles, as described in the overwhelming preponderance of the 69 amicus briefs filed in Moore v. Harper. Counsels explained in these briefs that the standard interpretation of “legislature” over several centuries broadly includes the state’s entire lawmaking process—not only state courts and the parameters of state constitutions, but also the governor’s signature or veto. As counsels stated, the ISL theory could threaten free and fair elections in several ways, including by stopping courts, constitutions, and governors from protecting voters from politicians; making election administration exceptionally chaotic; and pushing a massive wave of litigation into the federal courts.

These arguments echoed the conclusions of a slew of high-profile conservatives who filed amicus briefs arguing against the ISL theory, including state court chief justices, former judges, prominent attorneys, former members of Congress, a co-founder of the Federalist Society, and former U.S. solicitors general. In a recent op-ed published in The Atlantic, conservative stalwart Michael Luttig—a former federal circuit judge who co-wrote a key brief in this case—starkly warned that Moore v. Harper is “the most important case for American democracy in the almost two and a half centuries since America’s founding.” In another op-ed, published in CNN, Luttig wrote that he remains concerned that the ISL theory will be a central part of a future attempt by conservative extremists to steal elections.

[orthoclad]

58. It's a low-grade source,

but gives ideas for search terms for better sources.

[mahina]

77. Me too

Here’s the audio
https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/audio/2022/21-1271

[SWBTATTReg]

7. And these guys on the Supreme Court, whining about their public perception, wonder why?

This is the most tainted of recent Supreme Court rosters. At least there are some good ones (3) still left in the Court.

[Cha]

8. Very Best of Good Luck to

Neal Katyal!

They're not "conservative" judges.. they're Fascist Assholes.

[mahina]

78. Completely agree. They don't deserve that word and we should take it back

Immediately and consistent

[peppertree]

9. "Waited 30 years"? The only question Thomas is capable of asking, is 'is that my Coke?'

[rubbersole]

40. Yes. The furry one.

[peppertree]

41. *snort*

[True Blue American]

79. Thomas has stated," He waited 30 years to get even with Democrats!"

https://www.businessinsider.com/clarence-thomas-told-clerks-he-wants-to-make-liberals-miserable-2022-6

[peppertree]

86. Sure. Thomas is a vindictive crasshole - incapable of anything but grunts and brain farts.

Which, of course, is why Old Man Bush put him in - besides being meant as a deliberate insult to Black people.

Like Herschel Walker - but without the athletic talent.

[Joinfortmill]

12. Oh, boy wish I had been there.

[Denvermosaic]

14. Retire already, you old kook.

[Sky Jewels]

20. He can watch "Long Dong Silver" to his heart's content.

Put it on a loop, Clarence, we don't care. Just get the fuck out of our court.

[Hekate]

45. And take Ginny with you, please

[Sky Jewels]

46. Yup.

[iluvtennis]

16. KnR. n/t

[Demnation]

17. Do the hard homework, the R's opposition folds like a cheap checker board every time.

[scipan]

18. Oral argument transcript:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcript/2022

The last one.

Audio will be released on Friday.

[usaf-vet]

19. The "Roberts" Court is quickly becoming the Robber's Court as it takes away the rights that....

.... We The People have long had.

History will long remember these in-justices in their black robes.

[orthoclad]

38. I dunno

Depends on who gets to write (and teach) those history books. It might make some people feel uncomfortable /s .

We're on the edge. Moore could lock the oligarchy in for generations.

[rubbersole]

44. And that's the plan.

The Federalist Society didn't get a billion dollars to make democracy easy for the proletariat.

[orthoclad]

48. Yeah. Check my comment here

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17444035

(I'm using a url because I don't know how to cite a local pointer)

[rubbersole]

54. Spot on.

trump is yesterday's news. And desantis doesn't have the moxie. The rumblings are surrounding Kemp after his resounding reelection. The front man may not matter if the state legislatures get the power the SC is preparing to give them. The Heritage Foundation, ALEC, Koch network, Federalist Society and putin will have what they need to take it all. Plus an armed army of goobers to neutralize any real threat. god, I sure hope I'm just being paranoid.

[orthoclad]

55. To quote Captain Beefheart,

"If i'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused."
From "Smithsonian Institute Blues"

I added a reply to my post to bring up the Powell Memo of 1971. It perfectly describes the Right's long-term strategy. All those orgs you mention (Heritage, ALEC, Koch, Federalist) grew out of that memo. It also talks about "free speech", "balanced" viewpoints, education. So many things from the headlines of 2022. Musk at twitter, right-wing provos at colleges, Stop WOKE laws...

They know what they're doing.

[rubbersole]

61. And exposing all this to the average American seems impossible.

Corporate media certainly won't help. The amount of shit Hillary took for her "vast right-wing conspiracy" comment will be child's play if these assholes start to think they're losing their influence.

[orthoclad]

62. They'd have to be careful of

the Streisand Effect. If they get too loud denying it, it will draw more attention.

More likely to use the catch-and-kill method they used with Trump's sex scandals.

A global communication network accessible to ordinary people and not owned by the oligarchy would sure be useful. Oh, wait...

[rubbersole]

64. I think I need another drink.

My biggest wish is the implosion of the gop and Twitter etc. over the next few years will result in a renewed interest in democracy by most of us. Might be dreaming. My granddaughters are obsessed with climate change activism. Gives me hope.

[orthoclad]

69. The implosion of the QOP

is just the first step.

Enjoy your drink!

[oldsoftie]

94. How long before they see NONE of the great "Q" predictions have come true?

I mean, how many times do you get to give a date for the end of the world before people just say "piss off"?

[orthoclad]

96. The end-of-the-worlders

keep rescheduling the apocalypse, and it doesn't faze 'em.

They don't care. It's the excitement that counts, the thought of having powerful "secret knowledge".

Firesign Theater nailed it almost 40 years ago with "EVerything You Know Is Wrong". It's on googletube, if you want to get google cooties going there.

[oldsoftie]

97. I will look that up! And you describe a person I know too

It seems that he gets excited every time he sends me something that "proves" that THIS time its going to be DIFFERENT. And I just laugh & tell him "you've been wrong for 2 years; why would this be any different". At one point I thought he was seeing it. It lasted about a week

[orthoclad]

98. "secret knowledge"

What kills me is how the biggest conspiracy of all operates in the open: the theft of our labor and wealth by the owners.

Someone just had to tell me how the recent "Blood Moon" (eclipse) was related to the death of a Rothschild and some other stuff. And that that recent crypto money scandal was financing Pelosi. I asked for some evidence of what he was saying. It took him a while, then he came up with a Fox article. Whew. Gotta dig hard for obscure references, while Forbes openly publishes lists of billionaires and their wealth, and the Congressional Budget Office publishes this:
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58533
?itok=fh64bNke

But that "secret knowledge" makes them feel special, and powerful, and enlightened.

In the 60s, Phil Ochs wrote the satiric "Pretty Smart On My Part", that describes this perfectly. Lyrics about how they're gonna overthrow the gover-mint.
"Pretty smart on my part
to find my way in the dark"

[True Blue American]

80. People like your Grand daughters

Won in Georgia because Republicans shortened early voting hours, made it harder for people to vote, so the young came out in droves to vote. Many mature people did too.

Many were embarrassed by the dumb football star with his 3 cows, werewolves and Vampires.

In his speech he proclaimed his long term friendship with Trum. Trump would not give him the time of day except to use him.

[rubbersole]

87. Coincidentally, the granddaughters live in Atlanta.

That was 2 extra votes for Reverend Warnock!

[True Blue American]

89. Thank them for us!

[rubbersole]

90. Done.

[True Blue American]

95. My Son was griping about Democrats.

The day after the election he texted me,” We have a New Democratic Congressman!” Dumped Steve Chabot. All this in deep red Ohio. Told me how he really felt!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/longtime-gop-rep-steve-chabot-defeated-by-democrat-greg-landsman

[Paladin]

23. Take no prisoners, Neal. (nt)

[RayStar]

24. Good job

Neal did not back off.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

28. If we'd listened to Anita Hill back then, we wouldn't have to listen to Thomas now.

[markodochartaigh]

29. I didn't know who would be arguing before the supreme court

when I saw that Neal Katyal is there I felt much better.

[republianmushroom]

32. like

[wryter2000]

34. OMG

Bless him. I hope he's on MSNBC tonight to talk about it.

[orthoclad]

36. Words before this particular Court won't matter

The Reich Caucus will only respond to power.

Did Thomas laugh?

[Amishman]

37. It's a good argument, but from Thomas's viewpoint there is no contradiction

His stance on abortion is rooted in his belief that there is no constitutional right to abortion, and thus leaving it to the states is 'fine'.

He also believes that there is a near absolute constitutional right to guns, which he then feels the federal government should intervene to defend.

There only is a contradiction in federal involvement if more moderate viewpoints are considered.

[orthoclad]

59. We have to understand,

he has no beliefs -- other than what he's paid to believe.

This is not about arguments or logic or principles. It's a raw power grab.

[roamer65]

47. States like CA should ignore the recent SCOTUS rulings on gun regulation.

That would at least establish continuity.

[Unwind Your Mind]

67. I like that

[The Wizard]

81. The sociopath Thomas

has no shame.

[Joinfortmill]

91. Katyal is brilliant.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

102. For this threaf

Link to tweet