We are in a state of war.

[augyboston]

The attack on the power grid in Washington and Oregon is a declaration of war, as was the attack in North Carolina. Anyone paying attention to postings by MAGATS knows who is responsible for these atttacks.

We can no longer pretend that this is business as usual. These right wing extremists have already declared war and we better take this shit seriously. For them to take a page out of their hero's (Putin) playbook and go after our power grid demands that we bring the full force of our justice system down on their heads. It is long past time that we bring corporal punishment to those who sow chaos and promote violence.

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are in a state of war!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/09/us-power-grid-pacific-northwest-attacks

[brush]

1. Guerrilla warfare? Much of our critical infrastructure certainly unguarded and vulnerable.

Last edited Sat Dec 10, 2022, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Can strikes against large, pubic gatherings be next as in Europe and the Middle East?

Homeland Security and the FBI need to create prioritized departments just to infiltrate and monitor militias like the Oath keepers, Proud Boys, Patriot Front, Bugaloos and the like.

[orthoclad]

31. This ain't no party, this ain't no disco

[Botany]

2. My neighborhood 1 week ago ...... proud boys being punks

Link to tweet

[Bluethroughu]

21. We need to outlaw this military gear on our streets unless you are a solider,

And are required to where this. These losers are disturbing the peace walking around like this. Only unhinged people do this kind of crap.

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. Against my civil liberties values, I am inclined to agree with you.

[wnylib]

44. The comparisons are often overused and overblown,

but there is a parallel between RW militia intimidation today and RW militia intimidation in the 1920s in Germany.

[Bluethroughu]

57. Oh it's intimidation and recruiting of other toxic human beings for their fascism.

[brush]

62. Yep. I'd include the early '30s Germany too when Brown shirt thugs...

were attacking Jews, Jewish businesses and synagogues, just before Hitler took over.

The movie "Cabaret" has some vivid scenes of zeitgeist.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

33. No, you don't tell people what they can and cannot wear in public,

the courts would strike down any such law before the ink even dried on 1A grounds.

[Mister Ed]

37. It's an implied threat, but yes, very hard to prove in court.

When people go out in public in white robes with peaked hoods, or carry a noose, or burn a cross, the threat is very real, and very well understood by the threatened.

This is the same sort of thing, and the threat is again very well understood. But just as you say, it's very, very difficult to prove in court.

[Botany]

39. There is a law on the books that was written for Klan that made it illegal to brandish ...

.... firearms in order to scare people.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

43. I'm not talking about firearms, I fully agree with that law, in fact, open carry should be banned

except when hunting or hiking in the back country.

I'm talking about clothes and the wearing of them.

[Botany]

45. I wonder how quickly those cos-play soldiers would be washed out in basic training?

Yes, if they want to play "dress ups" as they protesting drag queens fine although this
was in my neighborhood and i have had and still have family, friends, and business associates
in that very area. A good friend of mine was at the church and was working to put on the story
time/dance party for the little kids of the church.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

47. I'd surmise that most have no concept of what being a real service member

entails and the process to become an active member of the military, and I'd surmise that the first round whistling past their heads would send them running for home, there may be one or two that would stand and go toe to toe with LE, but they would quickly be put down.

I'm sorry this was in your neighborhood, nobody should have to put up with these clowns, but that being said, they do have a 1A right to do so, but common sense tells one they shouldn't.

Unfortunately, common sense is nonexistent with these loons.

[wnylib]

51. None of them are among the ex military

who join militias?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

52. There are some across the country, but they are far outmatched

to the police forces, state and federal, and wouldn't stand up very long against a SWAT team, FBI's HRT, and the various other specialized LE forces.

The vast majority of ex service members, retired, like me, or otherwise are not militia members, the vast majority of us are driven by our Oath of Enlistment, which we take very seriously to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, not the bastardized interpretation these loons think it is.

Yes, they will do some damage, but for a successful Civil War, you need the civilian population and the military on your side, and when Americans start getting affected personally by these loons by taking out an power station, civilians or cops start getting killed by these loons, then they lose that support and will be hunted down and dealt with.

[wnylib]

54. A united pushback from LE, both local and national,

could certainly handle militia terrorists. How many in LE sympathize with the RW groups or are actually members?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

55. Hard to say, but, IMO,

they are outnumbered by the cops that take their Oath to the Constitution seriously also, an oath all cops take upon graduation from the Academy.

[Bluethroughu]

58. I understand, I'm talking about the combat gear.

People are intimidated.

I saw this kind of behavior in unstable third world countries, or narco states.

Where does the good guy with a guy and the bad guy with a gun begin? When they start shooting?

We know when they start shooting mass people die, so when do we say no combat gear on the streets unless you are officially military with a purpose.

[Prairie_Seagull]

61. I absolutely agree with you, wet ink meet supreme court.

That said, It's time to consider what we will do in order to suppress extremism in the form of speech, rather actual or implied.

Our constitution is a magnificent document, the framers tried very hard to see into their crystal ball and perceive what the future could have in store. They could not for-see Radio, TV (with so many channels) or the Internet.

I do not know what the answer is. I do know there is a serious problem. I don't mean to overstate this but if allowed to continue "as is", I believe the ramifications could be monumentally fucked.

I also believe it will be fuck all hard to figure out a solution and I also believe it will be much easier to keep what we have (our democratic republic) than try to get it back.

Now there's a happy thought for the season.

[modrepub]

3. It's Possible

but you can't get too out front of this. It's also likely that these folks are disgruntled employees who are very familiar with these devices and know exactly where to hit them for maximum impact.

Hopefully, law enforcement or company security will eventually catch up to the perpetrators. Only then will we know the true motivations of these people (though I wouldn't discount your conclusion, because I've thought the same thing).

[gab13by13]

5. Frank Figliusi strongly disagrees with that assessment

It is what the Civil War will look like. The bogus militias are planning to simultaneously take down the power grid across the US. They have the guns, they are the survivalists, they will create chaos enabling a move to fascism. Their plan is on social media, they are telling us what they plan to do, BELIEVE THEM.

Figliusi went on to say that DOJ needs to do something about what is going on in social media. Putting out schematics how to take down sub-stations is on the internet.

We know the motivations, they are telling us on social media. We need to wake the fuck up.

I was told these attacks on civil servants would be taken care of once Kristen Clarke was confirmed, well she has been confirmed for some time now. The Oath Keepers, Proud Boys and others need to be designated domestic terrorist organizations.

[rubbersole]

11. Frank also points out that we have NO domestic terrorism laws in this country.

Which really hampers law enforcement from going after these people.

[modrepub]

24. Be Careful What You Ask For

Laws with vague definitions of "Domestic Terrorist" can be used against anyone who disagrees with the government. I would point out that many in the law enforcement and criminal justice community learn towards the right side of the political spectrum. How do you stop these folks from applying any new found criminal powers to folks who are to the left?

[orthoclad]

27. Like police using anti-lynching laws

against people protesting police violence. The oligarchy will distort everything.

[wnylib]

53. Any law can be intentionally abused and misapplied.

That should not stop us from acting against domestic terrorism. I expect that left wing law makers are well aware of how such laws could be misused and would take care in the wording of such laws.

After all, we've had experience in the consequences of the RW inspired PATRIOT Act against foreign terrorism after 9/11.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

66. These militia fascist fucks

Did this kind of shit in the 40's blowing up things to cause a civil war and chaos.
Its the MO of fascists.

See Rachel Maddows podcast Ultra
The tactics are the same. Fuck these fascists.

[JanMichael]

19. 2 separate times in NC. A foiled attempt in SC and now the PNW?

I doubt multiple energy company nutcases from different companies all went bat shit crazy simultaneously two or three weeks ago.

[wnylib]

46. Disgruntled employees??

In different states, different parts of the country, and
different power companies, the same types of attacks on the infrastructure occurred. Meantime, RW media posts called for attacks on the US power infrastructure. So it's just by coincidence that some "disgruntled employees" carried out the same types of attacks on the power grid?

Yeah, sure.

[mnhtnbb]

4. There was an earlier attack in NC in November

not mentioned in the article in The Guardian.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217446419

Makes you wonder how many others have happened that haven't been linked.

[MyMission]

17. This article did mention the NC attack

It was the 2nd sentence.

What I find disturbing is that I didn't see these PNW attacks mentioned (yet) on any MSM. Not on any news feeds I checked after I saw it here on DU.

[mnhtnbb]

48. No, there was an attack in NC PRIOR to

the recent attack in NC that was mentioned.

https://archive.ph/ms8kl

The earlier attack happened November 11. The recent attack was Dec. 3.

[MyMission]

67. Did it cause outages?

I didn't know or hear about the earlier attack here in NC. I'm now wondering if we only know about the recent NC attack because it caused major outages. The attack in the PNW didn't cause an outage and wasn't really covered on MSM or other media sources I follow. Thanks for sharing the link.

This really is concerning, and another form of gun violence tptb want to suppress.

[HAB911]

6. Infrastructure attacks are a mighty broad brush

indiscriminately affecting the RWNJs as well as real Americans. I don't think that is a winning strategy, not that they have thought this through of course

[Ferrets are Cool]

9. IMO, they do not care who it hurts as long as it's not "them".

AND, if they can cause havoc. It does need to be treated as domestic terrorism.

[paleotn]

28. Chances are, the Moore County NC miscreants lived in Moore County.

They knew where the substations were. Something not readily apparent unless one frequents an area regularly. Not something you're usually going to find on the main drag. Shitting their own nest in a fit or rage does fits the magat profile.

[Genki Hikari]

68. You can find substations anywhere

With the internet. Most of the utility companies themselves will tell you the names and even locations of their substations right on their websites.

So any sufficiently motivated dirtbag from anywhere in the world can find them.

[Ilsa]

15. They want civil unrest, race wars.

If their attack gets RWNJs to activate, blame, and attack anyone different, they've achieved their objective.

[modrepub]

25. I Generally Agree

"...But when you talk about destruction, don't you know you can count me out..." John Lennon

[wnylib]

49. The people who carry out attacks like this

are often survivalist types with their own generators and long term supplies of food, water, medicine, batteries, etc. And they have their own communications, e.g. walkie talkies, to use while in the affected area. Once outside of the affected area, they can use cell phones, lap tops.

Like Timothy McVeigh, these people are willing to accept "collateral damage" for the sake of their goals.

Militias, RW anti government ideology, attacks on public buildings. You could think of them as McVeigh clones.

[Joinfortmill]

7. Yes.

[The Wizard]

8. Will they resort to

poisoning the water supply?

[bdamomma]

10. don't give

them any ideas

Jackson Mississippi is one with ongoing water problems

[The Wizard]

13. What should be the penalty

if they do poison water supplies? How about marching them into the sea?

[bdamomma]

14. they could

be held with endangering countless lives.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

65. Death penalty.

Who knows how many will suffer and die. If they live than others will think they will get away with it too and wont be threatened enough by jail if his rightwing sympathizers get him off in court like they did for that murdering piece of shit that killed those people at the BLM protests.
I cant remember that little fuckface's name at the moment. All I know is I dispise him.. .

[Joinfortmill]

12. Holy shit. Never gave that a thought.

[orthoclad]

30. Hell, they accused Yippies

of putting LSD in the Chicago water supply back in 68.

After 9/11, some municipal water plants stopped using chlorine gas, which comes in one ton tanks, for disinfection.

[paleotn]

32. Difficult to pull off, given the volume of water...

in a municipal system and the amount of poisonous substance needed to have any real affect. Not impossible, but difficult given the amount of inside help required.

[Emile]

16. How many of our power substations have hidden cameras?

[ProfessorGAC]

59. They're Not Hidden Around Here

Cameras are in plain view, in hardened housings. Clearly posted signs saying location is under video surveillance.
A gas plant, a pipeline booster, and 4 substations here are the same.
At that gas distribution place, there have to be 30 cameras. I never counted them but it's got to be at least 30. They're all over the place.

[The Jungle 1]

18. Yes, it is another domestic war. It is a race war.

These fascist want an all white Christian America. Even though they are not Christians.
They are killing and attacking Black Americans, Jewish Americans, refugees, LGBT Americans and Muslim Americans.
We are going to have to push back.
I can tell you this racist came to Philly in 2020. They were run out of town. As far as I know they have not been back. The pukes in Philly were wearing white masks. It is the same as a pointy sheet hood!

&ab_channel=6abcPhiladelphia

America WE have to stop them. I don't think it is clear what side the police are on.
Christofascism will not win the day. We must accept that we are involved in an organized gorilla war. Domestic terror is the number one terrorism threat to the US.

[orthoclad]

36. Chaos is opportunity

That's why there were a record number of new billionaires in 2010.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

64. Well people who are right wing

Ogliarchs that are probably authoritarians and definately narcissists own all the tv stations,all the news papers are run by rightwing trash.

They have bought all of the independant sources of news up. The death of the fairness doctrine by reagan and the law changed that let ogliarchs own as many media outlets they want,killed the free press.

Free speech tv was an attempt to make a left wing channel. They used to be on Direct Tv. The only way I can see them now that I have fucking verizon is to stream them.

The market is dominated by a few stations run by ogliarches.

They decide what is news. Sadly.
Free press died when media was consolidated in just a few hands.

They are choosing not to report attacks by right wing terrorists because they believe the shit these terrorists believe or they sympathise with them. They arent going to rat out people doing shit they like or want who are thier kind.

So the real news is made obscure or just not mentioned. They are protecting terrorists.

[70sEraVet]

20. The FBI needs to step up, clean out the MAGA supporters in its OWN ranks

(remember the cell phone deletions of Jan6 calls?) and start creating massive file collections on every would-be MAGA terrorist in the country! I know they can do it, because they did it in the 60's with anti-war demonstrators!

[gab13by13]

22. Better start with Christopher Wray.

[2naSalit]

40. +1

[orthoclad]

38. We had 4 years of accelerated infiltration

[nightwing1240]

23. We've been at war since November 9, 2016

When the boy that would be king defeated Hillary Clinton. My guard has been up since then with no apparent end in sight. President Biden is doing a fantastic job but we must push the DOJ to do theirs.

[2naSalit]

41. Same here. ...nt

[Takket]

26. it is nice the Guardian is covering this........

because i just went to CNN and the ABC websites and NO mention of these attacks AT ALL. The lead story on both sites is the world cup journalist that died. While I agree that is a story of interest, I am dumbfounded that coordinated domestic terrorism attacks are just being ignored by the media. They are underestimating the severity of this.

We are all underestimating just how severe this is.

I feel like the snowball towards civil war is rolling down the mountain and getting larger. These things don't pop up overnight and we are nowhere NEAR having a civil war in 2022, but 2032? 2042? We need to deal with the forces working to destroy us and these attacks are nothing to be taken lightly.

Sure we vastly outnumber the MAGAts. But what if a 1000 of them get together and attack our infrastructure? or a 100000 or one million? Can you fathom the chaos they could cause? and we underestimate just how quickly our society could break down and have us turning on each other, which is EXACTLY what they want. For us to take sides, and give them the chance to install people like drumpf as Emperor in the chaos. Look how ugly it got during covid just because of the toilet paper. Look how easily we panicked.

Now imagine instead of toilet paper it is electricity and water.

I'm not trying to instill panic in you all, as long as these incidents are small and isolated, we can let the authorities handle them, but we NEED to handle them, and the public NEEDS to know how serious this is. Which is why I'm PISSED the media isn't making a much bigger deal than this! this is more important than a soccer reporter dying in Qatar!!!!!!!!! If we lose sight of these things, we will lose control of them, and someday it will be very bad for us all.

[orthoclad]

42. Even "public radio" fills its content with fluff

and ignores real threats and plutocracy.

I saw a reich-wing site (with German black-letter font) talking about "asymmetric warfare", aka guerilla war, in the context of Moore County.

[orthoclad]

34. DOJ backed off

from investigating right terror when right Congresscritters complained Obama was picking on them.

All of this goes back at least to the 90s. Waco left a bad taste.

Meanwhile, the Extreme Court is making damn sure that the guns are out there.

[bucolic_frolic]

35. These disruptions will cause distress and even death

People in need of electricity for life saving machines, people in accidents when they are forced to travel for necessities, people freezing to death. Flooded basements, spoiled food and food related illnesses. This is a public nuisance and then some.

[LuckyCharms]

50. Agree 100%. A modern civil war will not look anything like it did in the 1860's.

Instead, it will look like the kind of shit that we are starting to see happening relatively recently, multiplied by 100.

[area51]

56. You reminded me of what author Sarah Kendzior said.

Link to tweet

Text: "When people talk about Civil War II, they imagine this even split, like Union vs Confederacy. That's not it. What you're likely going to get are scattered attacks -- bombings, shootings -- by small groups and individuals all over the US."

[Initech]

60. Destroying the grid because of a damn drag show is terrorism.

As is threatening to blow up hospitals and murder doctors over conspiracy theories. The next Civil War isn't going to look anything like the last one. There may be no formal battles, battlefields, or generals. It will be fought online with a series of real life terror incidents like this. We won't know that we've won or lost either.

[samplegirl]

63. As Bush said,

we must fight them on their front before the come home. Trump brought the war home, Domestic terrorism was endorsed by him, propagated by him, and the major media outlets did nothing as they profited from it!