AOC on the Pentagon budget.

[Kath2]

"The $857 billion budget that passed Congress this week is $45 billion higher than what the President requested. To put this number into perspective, it would cost $90 billion a year to cut child poverty in half, and $20 billion to end homelessness in the United States."

[leftstreet]

1. If only she knew some elected legislators n/t

[jimfields33]

4. Not only that but the House already passed it.

Did she not know this? Why not bring this up before it passed in her part of congress?

[Autumn]

25. You know well as I do nothing anyone said would have changed it. She knew it, she voted against it

She posted this the day the bill passed. Did you miss this in the tweet? The $857 billion budget that passed Congress this week is $45 billion higher than what the President requested

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Not enough letters in a tweet to discuss the whole subject. There's more. If you are interested.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

28. If only more taxpayers would push for things like healthcare and ending homelessness.

[leftstreet]

42. They 'push for it' when voting for politicians campaigning on it

[Irish_Dem]

2. If humans were not so dangerous and murderous, we could have a lovely planet.

We could spend our resources on the planet and the people on it.

[jimfields33]

5. Ukraine thanks us. We take care of the world so they don't have to

[Irish_Dem]

6. We are the ones who should thank Ukraine.

They are fighting Russia so we don't have to.

Ukraine and its people are being bombed back to the Stone Age.

US interests are protected.

The Russian military is damaged far into the future.

[jimfields33]

7. I understand that part. I'm talking financially.

[Irish_Dem]

8. Yes of course, but it is still cheaper for the US to pay Ukraine to fight for us.

But yes, also it is the right thing to do.

[GreenWave]

3. How much unaccounted for money has the Pentagon amassed?

Shades of The Pentagon propaganda machine by Arkansas Senator William Fulbright.

"twas a great read.

[Irish_Dem]

9. We will never know because it is always hidden money.

But it is a huge amount of money.

[llashram]

10. the big stick

in this country will always win. In our modern history, the military has always had the upper hand...big country, big budget.

[Kid Berwyn]

11. Smart to put it that way...

… relatable, in a richest-times-in-human-history kind of way.

ETA a little Liberation Theology:

Link to tweet

Tip o’ the cap to tblue37:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17453873

[H2O Man]

13. +1

[Just A Box Of Rain]

12. We can make jokes about socialism

but at the moment we have a former Soviet KGB officer leading a war of genocide on Ukraine, while the Communist government in China is engaging in one of the massive naval build up the world has ever seen, as they issue bellicose warnings about invading Taiwan.

It sure would be nice to like in a world where we could spend resources on feeding the hungry, on education, shelter, healthcare , and healing the planet, but socialist regiemes worldwide are detracting from that goal, not advancing it.

[H2O Man]

14. Those darned socialists!!!!!

That's the ticket! Even though Putin et al are not socialists, we MUST blame socialists!

[Just A Box Of Rain]

15. Being a Soviet apparatchik was Putin's path to power.

The Soviet Union wasn't any better. Nor was Mao, who killed untold millions.

When there is a socialist state that doesn't either plunge their country into economic despair or engage in massive repression of human rights (possibly including acts of genocide) or that does both, send me an alert.

I prefer the model of liberal democracy, myself.

[H2O Man]

17. I'm glad you

prefer liberal democracy. I do, too. That's why I like AOC.

Democracy is, of course, a political system. Socialism is an economic system. The United States is a democracy that has a mixed economic system. That means it includes "socialist" feautures, from the military to Social Security to police to public schools to public libraries. (Words do actually have meaning.) We have also had socialism for the opulently wealthy since the 1800s, when the Golden Age was replaced by the Gilded Age. I'm surprised that public schools don't teach that any more ..... or perhaps some weren't paying attention, and are thus prone to making silly statements.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

18. Must disagree on some basics. The military, roadbuilding, schools, hospitals, fire departments, etc.

are NOT examples of "socialism." Sorry, that tired old trope doesn't fly.

When you come up with a socialist regime that has not created human misery, let me know.

Meanwhile, I will remain an anti-authoritarian/anti-totalitarian liberal Democrat who is fully in sync with the traditional values of my party.

[H2O Man]

19. Really?

Who do you think pays for such programs?

It is said that when the ancient philosopher Confucius was asked what he would do if he had complete power, he answered, "Insist that people use words correctly." I don't think you understand that! Or some very basic words that allow one to participate in meaningful conversations.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

20. I agree with Confucius.

"Insist that people use words correctly."

Spending on infrastructure (etc) has been a feature of every civilized society in history. This has zero to do with "socialism." It is one of the most absurdist political arguments I've ever heard.

Confucius would be disappointed.

[H2O Man]

21. You are funny!

Perhaps you would do well to study two US presidents who understood that a civilized society does involve the very programs that you lack the insight required to recognize as "socialism." The first is Franklin D. Roosevelt, the second is Lyndon B. Johnson. Now, they are often referred to as "FDR" and "LBJ," in case you weren't aware of that ..... don't want to confuse you. Now, each of them passed significant social programs -- I'll bet you can't name either without "googling" -- and at the time, each were accused by republicans of being "socialists." In fact, their programs were democratic socialist in nature -- because again, democracy is a political system, and socialism is an economic policy. That is obviously something you do not understand, hence my patiently explaining this inthe most simple manner I can.

[H2O Man]

22. One more thing:

You note that all civilized societies spend on infrastructure. Read that again, and really t6hink about what you said.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

23. Again, Confucius requires me to push back on the absurdist suggestion that liberal social programs

--which I support as a liberal Democrat--are somehow examples of "socialism" when nothing could be further from the truth

FDR was not a socialist. The socialists of his day despised FDR and Norman Thomas said, "Emphatically, Mr. Roosevelt did not carry out the Socialist platform, unless he carried it out on a stretcher."

Let's go with Confucius over Orwell here.

As a parenthetical note, I studied political science and political economy as the core of my university program.

[H2O Man]

26. Gosh.

Have you ever considered that the word "social," as in "social programs," has a root found in "socialism"?

Now, let's take a look at FDR, shall we? And let's consider an economist that he relied upon, both in Albany and DC. I'll speculate that you aren't familiar with him. Leland Olds was, by every definition, a democratic socialist. I know that you aren't able to grasp the distinction between a political and economic practice, yet they exist. Leland would be perhaps the best example. Under FDR, for example, Olds was appointed to the NYS Power Authority while FDR was governor, and to the Federal Power Commission in DC, where he served as chairperson.

Despite being viciously attacked for being a socialist, primarily due to his support of railroad workers' unions, Olds brought electricity to rural America. That included to the farm my family lived on. They were all railroad workers and union activists. Aunt Mary, a charter member of the Order of Railroad Telegraphers' Union, was an associate of Leland's. This brings us to the "socialism" that resulted in Twain's references to the Gilded Era.

Clearly, you were not in any university classroom where I taught, or you would know that -- for but one example -- between 1865 and 1900, the federal government gave (not sold) the railroad barons a quarter-million square miles of land. That might be near impossible for you to understand, so let's make it easier (oreasiest) for you: that's more than the combined states of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Now, in your opinion, what economic theory justifies that?

I could attempt to compete with what you claim to be your education by mentioning my having taught at two NYS universities. But I would rather note that I got a 97 on my social studies mid-term in the 8th grade. By then, I had learned the distinction between political and economic theory, as well as the overlap. Keep studying! You can learn this stuff!

[Just A Box Of Rain]

30. I think Confucius would get a big laugh from the arguement that

because the word "social," as in "social programs," has a root found in "socialism" somehow means they are synonymous, or even congruent, terms

You want to talk about "being funny?" That is hysterical.

FDR (and thank you for apprising me of the fact that FDR refers to Franklin Delano Roosevelt) listened to many people. That's a attribute of people who embrace pluralism and the marketplace of ideas. It is not, however, evidence that FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt) was a socialist, as that's clearly not so.

You make quite a few assumptions about what I don't know, but they are false ones.

Also, being attacked as "a socialist" by right-wing extremists does not ipso facto, make one a socialist. If we allow such nonsense, then fascists and the hard-right get to (falsely) frame the political debate, and that would be a massive mistake.

I graduated from the political science program at UC Berkeley, which at the time--and since--is held in faily high regard. Not a bastion of conservatism.

Since you have an education in such matters, which socialist state--now or in the past 100 years or so--whould you point to as a positive model for constructing a free and just society?

[Hortensis]

54. If socialism must claim the achievements of capitalist systems

for its own, what IS the justification for socialism? Something else, obviously. Unstated.

An emphatic NO to bait-and-switch political promises -- trying to sell socialism by claiming that our roads and schools are really socialism-derived. Or that social programs in Europe capitalist nations are socialism.

The roads and schools (and social programs for that matter) of today's liberal western democracies are no more examples of socialism than China's Ming dynesty was socialist and the Great Wall a product of socialism. The roads and aqueducts that connected Rome's empire were not achievements from its great socialist period.

Socialism is also not just an economic system, so why say so? It is a socioeconomic system with more than a little authoritarianism built in to function and to maintain against the sacrifices of personal freedom and personal prosperity required in return for what it offers.

Bernie Sanders knows this. Significant truths about socialism are not always unstated for fear of killing the sale. I heard him speak on it in the past, using that very word, "sacrifices," but promising we would become "a better people" for it. He was very sincere. This was before he ran for president and started describing socialism as really just the kind of nice, unalarming things we already have, but better.

[betsuni]

61. I think "anti-capitalist" and "late stage capitalism" are the passwords to the club where

socialism has a new definition (just put "democratic" in front of it, same way that putting "grassroots" in front of something purifies it). The one where the policies of FRD and LBJ were socialist and Republican attacks are proof: "When Trump screams socialism, Americans will know that he is attacking Social Security."

[Hortensis]

62. Oh, yes. And claiming an AMC Gremlin is actually a Toyota Camry

but better (!) doesn't make it so. Amazon-type reviews from those who found they'd been sold socialism advertised as capitalist government-run social programs, including those in our and European nations, would put an end to this kind of political chicanery.

[betsuni]

32. The myth that the true roots of the Democratic Party are socialist, that FDR/LBJ

were democratic socialists and their policies democratic socialism. Used by populists to try to convince people that liberal Democrats aren't true Democrats, are corrupt and immoral -- all those insults like neoliberal/corporatists/establishment/elites/conservadems -- and must be replaced because they stand in the way of the revolution The People (who are all democratic socialists) are waiting for.

Too many people fell for that nonsense and it damaged our country.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

33. Correct. This is gaslighting at its worst.

I'm assuming that when you refer to "LBJ," you mean Lyndon Baines Johnson. LOL

Who knew?



ETA: And I'm old enough to remember just how well LBJ (Lyndon Baines Johnson) was regarded by the socialists of his day. LOL

[betsuni]

34. Very gassy, and the obligatory personal insults.

We never hear anything about actual socialists from the democratic socialist revisionists. Heh. That wouldn't fit the myth.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

35. I'm still waiting to hear the answer to which socialist state--now or in the past 100 years or so--

proponents of socialism or democratic socialism would point to as a positive model for constructing a free and just society?

I do not expect an answer will be forthcoming.

The liberal social democracies of this world all have advanced capitalist economies that generate the wealth that makes generous social programs possible.

Elizabeth "I'm a capitalist to my bones" Warren understands this reality.

Instead we get tired tropes about infrastructure and social programs that are examples of gaslighting, deflection, and myth-making.

*Sigh*

[H2O Man]

38. Yet you ignore

what his other opponents said about the Great Society. Don't limit yourself to the millions of citizens that disliked LBJ for a variety of other reasons. Look at what republicans said about his Great Society.

The US was created when merchantilism was the primary economic policy.

I understand that you are against centralized socialism. I agree with that. At the same time, I am opposed to efforts by republicans to privatize Social Security -- which is one example of our mixed economy. It's a government-run program that is essential. Putting it on the open market is a terrible republican party idea. Likewise, where there are mental health providers in private practice, it's a good thing that there are public mental health clinics -- funded by local, state, and federal money -- that are great examples of a mixed economy.

I'm confident that I have been a Democrat as long as anyone here. I've always voted for Democrats, never a single Socialist. I belong to the (Senator) RFK, Jesse Jackson, Bernie Sanders, AOC wing. I recognize that we are in the minority. I also understand that we are at a point in time where everyone not only should be voting for Democratic candidates, but should be donating -- time, money, or both -- with their campaigns. Again, I will gladly compare my history of working on Democratic candidates' to anyone here.

I live in rural, upstate New York. The majority of the food banks serving the region ran out of supplies at Thanksgiving week. Several are still without adequate supplies for the coming holiday. I definitely agree with AOC that more federal spending should go to feeding the hungry. For just one example, kids that eat a good diet have a better foundation for doing well in school. It's not the only factor, of course. But it was the primary reason the school my daughters graduated from, ans while I served on the board of education, expanded its food programs. Free breakfasts, even in the summer months, just as the Black Panthers were doing in the LBJ era.

If a person has never experienced poverty, and hence have limited insight to what that involves, they are perhaps more likely to find AOC's ideas offensively socialist. I grew up poor -- at times really poor -- and had an episode of it as a young adult. Addressing the social issues has to recognize it will take generations at this point. But it can be done, though only by the Democratic Party. And it is more likely to come with AOC and more like her being elected.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

40. LBJ had all sorts of opponents. Ones on the far-right and ones on the far-left.

I ignored neither of them--false charges to the contrary.

You seemed to have ignored that it is a bad idea to let right-wing extremists falsely characterize a liberal Democrat as a "socialist" merely because they support core Democratic values.

Those are "right-wing" talking points, and I reject them.

Social Security isn't "socialism." Again, that is using a right-wing talking point.

I also oppose privatizing Social Security, as taking care of people people in their old age, or those who are disabled or orphaned, are key values I believe in as a liberal Democrat.

I worked on RFK's campaign as a volunteer when I was 10 years old. I don't see that he in AOC are in "the same wing" of the Democratic Party, given RFK's famously strenuous opposition to socialism, but whatever.

Desiring to feed the hungry is a liberal Democratic value. Suggestions to the contrary on a forum for liberal Democrats, strike me as rather grotesque.

And speaking of "ignoring" things:

Which socialist state--now or in the past 100 years or so--whould you point to as a positive model for constructing a free and just society?

Still waiting for an answer on this critical question.

[H2O Man]

43. Feeding the poor

is indeed a liberal Democratic value. I am a progressive Democrat, and it is a progressive Democratic value, too. In fact, it iws a value that Democrats have advocated and accomplished to a large degree. And I do think that some republicans at the grassroots' level share it, as there are things like the United Way that help out. See, where I live in rural, upstate New York, where there are more republicans than independents, and more independents that Democrats. So most everything, included the United Way, is run by republicans.

Sometimes, however, by studying the past, concepts appear that can be helpful today. Let me give you an example. Martin Luther King, Sr. was a republican, as was Martin Luther, Jr., up until 1960. However, when King was incarcerated during the campaign was in the general election cycle, it was JFK who reached out to Mrs. King. Nixon did not. Hence, Martin endorsed Kennedy, who won by a slim margin. Numerous historians note that black voters were an essential part of Kennedy's victory.

Now, stick with me. It may be difficult, for I've been on this forum for 19 years longer than you. And I'm going to talk a little history to you here. Back a decade or so ago, the supervisor of my home town made national & international news. He was attempting to force a tiny Sufi settlement to destroy their fully legal cemetery. Really. Google Supervisor Bob McCarthy Sidney NY

The heads of the town and county Democratic Party contacted me, as I do not live far away. I could get there in a half an hour. One issue was the mutant tea party supervisor and a few on the board were running for re-election. There were more registered republicans than independents, with even fewer Democrats. The town usually had one Democrat on it -- but not always -- and in its history, had never had a Democratic majority. Thus, "outreach" to non-Democrats was essential. And indeed, we got a lot of independents, along with some republicans, and won the first Democratic Party majority.

Now let me go to another example. Before redistricting, this region elected a foul person named Claudia Yenney to Congress in 2016. I attribute her victory to a person running third party, which always hurts Democrats here. But two years later, our candidate was Anthony Brindisi. There were two things that were helpful. First, Tenney accused Anthony of being "mob connected" -- surely every Italian-American from Utica understood what she appeared to be attempting. Her campaign staff expressed concerns about dark SUVs on the streets of Utica. Again, I'm serious. Google it.

Anthony understood why he needed to appeal to independents and some republicans. Outreach, in other words. He was elected. (The next year, I did encounter Claudia while shopping. She was pleasant, and talked for close to two minutes. It seemed longer. I'm serious. But don't try it.) Although we worked hard, Tenney beat Anthony in 2020 in a very close race. Anthony had planned to run again in 2022, but found other employment opportunities.

Now, before that I had been in the 24th District, though I live in the same house. Again, this is way before you joined DU. My family and I campaigned for Mike Arcuri in both 2006 and 2008. He won both times. At the beginning of the 2010 general, my family was enjoying a picnic with his family. He told me I didn't need to work as hard as before, because Congress was so corrupt that he wasn't sure he wanted to serve another term. Had you been on DU at the time, you'd have seen pictures of Mike with my daughters, school children who campaigned for him.

I could go on and on. I still have RFK's campaign magazine from his 1968 run. More, I used to post pictures on DU of my tie clip he handed out in a nearby town when he ran for Senate in 1964. I remember at a 2008 meeting with one of his children, a family friend, when I was wearing the tie clip. Not many around these days.

I'm not surprised that you see no connection between RFK in '68 and AOC today. I'd be shocked if you could. Yet that doesn't translate to me questioning if you should be on this forum, as you find fit to aboout my being here. I am exactly as much part of the Democratic Party as you are. With far more experience working political campaigns. I'd suggest that one of the potential reasons our party has lost some of the elections we have, is due to the "purer than you" attitude. "Outreach" is the way to victory.

I do outreach among independents suring general elections. In primaries, I've supported AOC over Crowley, for example. And her district picked her. But in primaries, I only do outreach to Democrats. In a general election, I do outreach to independents. I can break bread with people that wouldn't let you on their property. Only a tiny few identify as Socialists. I get along with the older ones, who are more like the type that Norman Thomas was. I find them pleasant, but unrealistic. In a very real sense, like christians anticipating a Second Coming. But I can get most to vote for the Democrat, unless there is some third party, when they feed their future to the lions. (Note: the type of lions Lennon made reference to in his LP "Life with the Lions.&quot These independents know me, and know as a youth I smoked pot with Abbie Hoffman, and spent hours with Angela Davus.

The younger "socialists" I've come to know, almost exclusively from talking on universities, are a bit more hard-core. Some were angry that Angela had said it was essential that all good people vote for Joe Biden in 2020. They thought she betrayed them, that they were right to be sorely offended to the point of being victims.

Finally, you might want to re-read exactly what I have said -- it's easily understood. I never said there were examples of countries with centralized socialism, that do not allow for open markets. You've confused me with who you wish I was. I'm for mixed economies, such as here in the US. And yes, you absolutely ignored mention of those republicans that attacked FDR and LBJ for being "socialists."

[Just A Box Of Rain]

45. A lot to unpack here, including personal insults, mischaracterizations, and outright falsehoods.

I never engaged in "questioning if you should be on this forum." That's not remotely true. And I have very much enjoyed reading your posts on everything from politics to Jerry Quarry.

You have gone out of you way to avoid admitting that you can offer no positive examples of past or current socialist regiemes that serve as a model for free and just societies.

I smoked pot with Jerry Garcia. I once had to tackle Huey Newton in a bar fight that he instigated, after he attacked the gay black owner of the establishment where I tended bar on the Berkeley/Oakland border.

You may (or you may not) have more experience on working on campaigns that I do--I started at 10 in 1968, then volunteered with McGovern in 72 and never stopped. How would either us us know?

Saying you'd be shocked if I could see see a connection between (the famously anti-socialist) RFK and AOC sounds insulting. Although the drawing of similarities is far-fetched, indeed.

And, to the contrary, I have not ignored your mention of "those republicans that attacked FDR and LBJ for being "socialists." Instead, I've said that branding liberals as "socialists" is a suurios right-wing tactic, and that we should not be defined by right-wing talking points.

Don't you agree?

Do you wish to hear what the Socialist Workers Party has to say about RFK (that's Robert Francis Kennedy) or are you just willing to accept that they are not favourable?

Thanks for the stories.

[panader0]

36. The tax payers are the people who pay for those things, like building schools, roads etc, etc.

Some, like those who have no children, still pay taxes to support that school. That is what I consider
socialism--The people pay for these things.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

37. So what? People paying taxes isn't "socialism" under any accepted definition of the term.

Sorry, but this is preposterous and would make every government in human history--all of which have raised taxes to support their states--into "socialists."

This level of reductionism is disheartening to read.

Confucius would not be happy.

[H2O Man]

39. As my friend Rubin

often said, those with very little to compare find very little to understand. Hence, the person who hilariously posts without knowledge of merchantilism being the economic reality when the US became a nation. Our other friend is limited to the concept of a centralized government that does not allow for free enterprise. And that is one, easily understoof form of socialism. But you are, of course, correct. There are numerous forms of socialism, rather than one.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

41. Your "other friend" will take the lack of response to the question I asked multiple times

as a tacit admission that there is not a single example of a socialist state--now or in the past 100 years or so--that serves as positive model for constructing a free and just society.

Not one.

Yet, understanding history is presented as being simple minded or conceptually limited.

To which, I refer you to the open question.

I don't believe in fairy tales, myself.

[H2O Man]

44. It's a non-question.

No one here claimed them could. Thus, it is a weak form of discussion/ debate. The type that would be sure to earn a failing grade in any school.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

46. It is hardly a non-question.

This is a non-responsive non-answer to a highly pertinent question.

One that has been dodged and evaded.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

48. No, It is a question that's germane in countries all over the world.

Posters here have suggested that they are committed "anti-capitalists" and it is right to ask what is a better alternative?

Thus far in the human experience, what you call "centralized, authoritarian socialism" is the only sort of socialism that the world has experienced, certainly over the past 100 years, and forgive those of us who are skeptical that there is another kind. This mythical "beknighted socialism" remains one of the imagination.

I remain committed to liberal democracy, myself.

You seem to think a great deal of your seniority as a member here. I'm glad you are self-impressed.

I trust that you are better at asking questions, than answering them.

[H2O Man]

49. Actually, I post

about how long I have been here, and the quality of my contributions, as a tongue-in-cheek response for your questioning why I'm here. I suppose I could keep it simpler, but it is what it is.

I do agree about the current state of the world. And the threats that confront the democratic nations. We don't disagree on that.

I'm a second-generation American. My family came here in the 1800s, as the result of the viciousness of another country. A large portion of their homeland died horrible deaths. That the other country was a capitalist country isn't the significant part. Rather, like you attempted to say, human history is filled with horrible examples of cruelty. Human beings are curious beings, in that it doesn't appear difficult for a pathological person to appeal to large numbers of people. It could involve attacking "others" for a variety of sick reasons, ranging from resources to religion. And we are in a dangerous time in that cycle.

This, of course, brings up two very important questions that I have studied for many decades. The evolution of the human brain being the first. On a shelf to my right, I have a late friend's collection of artifacts from Olduvai Gorge. If you were older, you might remember the National Geographic specials in the mid-1960s ..... my friend was with Louis and Mary Leakey finding what were then believed to be the oldest tools made by early/ pre- humans. How the use of the thumb in tool-making resulted in the growth of the brain. Or my Neanderthal tool from a cave in France. When I talk with people who have a grasp of this, we recognize that in times of great environmental change, there were always two or more groups walking the earth. Today, we are all alone. And our focus is distracted by the threat of the savages amongst us.

The second involves religious/spiritual/atheist concepts of the uniberse we inhabit.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

50. This is the second time you have falsely accused me of questioning why you are here.

That never happened. Or quote me, if you feel otherwise.

I'm sorry that your family suffered and was forced to flee. That happens all too often.

I'm old enough to remember the mid-1960s and had a subscription to National Geographic and watched their specials. Fold out maps from National Geographic adorned my bedroom walls as a child and I studied them intently. One of my favorite activities was filling in maps that came w/o national names that my mother--a public school teacher--used to pick up at my request at the "education store" she frequented.

I also recall that National Geographic avoided covering obvious stories in their magazine--like the famine in Biafra--when doing stories on Nigeria, or the situation with racial oppression in South Africa, but...

My son just finished his first quarter in college, among the classes he took--and thoroughly enjoyed was Biological Anthropology, which emphasized primate and human evolution. He also took Economics and a humanities course in Ethics and Social Justice. A good start for his university education.

[H2O Man]

52. Hey!

I'm off to lay down & watch some news. I'm an old man, and need to rest. But I have enjoyed talking with you, and hope we can continue this tomorrow. I enjoy talking with those who disagree with me. I am nothing if not patient with those that are way wrong, and with some of the others, I recognize there are issues where there is no one "correct" answer ..... and no "wrong" belief. And, being human, I am prone to error .... and thus always try to learn.

Perhaps the latest example came as a result of watching Dr. Jillian Peterson testify in a court hearing about gun ciolence in public schools. I think about these things, and recognize experts who describe how to stop many, even most, of them before they happen, so I vought her book "The Violence Project." It is as important as Dr. Lee's book was warning about in "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump."

Both books focus on the very real threats posed by social decay. I hope that colleges make them "strongly suggested" readings. Good for your son, as that is an interesting period of life, filled with opportunities. My younger daughter was able to do a semester at a university in my family's homeland.

Anyhow, a year ago, I posted information about a student from the high school my daughters graduated from had made a video of himself and a friend practicing an assault on non-white people. That is scary, and I know there are others. A co-worker of my younger son was "shared staff" for the school that the Buffalo shooter (in May) graduated from less than 11 months earlier. He had threatened to do something similar at his graduation. He studied school shooters on the internet. There was leakage, and the system failed to pick up on it.

These are issues that I think all Democrats care about. I can't say that of many republicans in DC. But I think that is a perfect example of where outreach is essential. It so often comes down to how things are presented, because around here, most independents and even republicans don't want their children or grandchildren in a school where there is a shooting. Dr. Peterson is able to identify steps society can take that are not limited to "Democrat" or "republican." At the same time, I worry about some school boards. I remember years ago on DU a person telling me that I didn't understand that school boards weren't political.

They clearly are in some ways, if one is familiar with the christian nationalist movement. I've currently been tasked with dealing with a BOE in Sullivan County. State Ed is telling them to get rid of their Indian mascot by the end of the school year, or risk losing state aid and having administrators removed. The board is comprised of pro-Trump individuals who sincerely think their Lakota headdressed mascot honors the Esopus who lived there for thousands of years. My assignment is to talk them into considering teaching local history, including learning about the Esopus, and even the four-day Minisink Battle that happened there. But I will not call it "critical race theory," or it would frighten them.

I'm tired from trying to help some gentlemen get their van on the road. It had crossed the highway, and went all the way down a steep bank. I was walking the dog along my driveway -- part of a post-Revolutionary War turnpike -- and responded when it took place.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

53. Sleep well. I'm rather bushed myself.

[Zeitghost]

57. Publicly funded infrastructure and services

Is not socialism, that's a right wing talking point.

Socialism is the public control of the means of production and distribution of goods and services.

[Hekate]

51. Good response

Reminds me of The Magistrate’s sig-line, which I always respected

[intheflow]

55. Peace begins when the hungry are fed.

Bombing for peace is like fucking for celibacy.

WE make the world in which we live.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

56. Indeed. Built socialist regiemes tend to increase human misery rather than relieving it.

To speak nothing of the other human rights abuses.

WE should make a world were people are free, well-fed, and not subject to totalitarianism/authoritarianism.

[Zeitghost]

58. "Bombing for peace is like fucking for celibacy"

I'd guess the Ukrainian's would feel differently, as would much of Europe in the first half of the last century.

Catchy feel good slogans don't stop evil authoritarian states. Bombs do.

[intheflow]

59. Bombing is permitted in self-defencse.

Unless you think Ukraine was the aggressor and started bombing Russia first.

[Zeitghost]

60. Which is the detail that is completely lost

In catchy little slogans that make people feel good but miss the point.

[mvd]

16. Exactly!

K&R. Even Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex. They have had their way even when there was more emphasis on social spending. We can both take care of our own and be protected since the military budget is so bloated.

[melm00se]

24. some data points

US defense spending (as a percentage of GDP) has been trending downward (with a couple of dumps) since the 1980s.



The defense budget breaks down thusly



I will make no comment on her assertions on child poverty or homelessness as I have data on those topics to support or refute them.

[Xoan]

27. It's obscene, folks. /eom

[Mr.Bill]

29. Whatever else it may be,

the military budget is the number one jobs program in the U.S.

Imagine what it would be like if health care or education was the number one jobs program.

[old as dirt]

31. Leonor Gonzlez Mina - Violencia (en vivo) - Teatro Coln