Please don't perpetuate Musk's mockery of the practice sharing your pronouns.

[Ms. Toad]

by making up nonsensical ones of your own (either for yourself or Musk).

Sharing pronouns - especially when you are cisgender and/or your pronouns match your apparent gender - is an invitation to others to tell you their pronouns so that you don't mis-gender someone based on their appearance. It shares the burden of "coming out" with people who are frequently mis-gendered. It sends a message that you are a safe person.

If you're struggling with the concept that you ought to share your own pronouns when you think they are obvious - think about same gender marriage. Even though it is much more accepted these days there is an an emotional burden to always being the different one - the one who has to decide whether to "come out," or to just accept the assumptions people make about you. I've been married to a woman for more than 4 decades - and have never hidden it. But just yesterday I had to decide whether to come out to someone I've been working with since mid-October who apparently didn't pick up on my gender-based references to my spouse. It is a similar (and currently even larger) burden for people who use less apparently obvious or less common pronouns.

Mocking the practice of expressly sharing your pronouns makes DU less welcoming.

[Sky Jewels]

1. Anyone still on Twitter, please abandon ship.

Don’t prop up this POS.

[Johonny]

19. Yup

I loved the place, but Musk ruined it quickly. No interest in going back.

[Lunabell]

2. Believe it or not,

there are still those on DU who think it's ok to mock the LGBTQIA community. And make light of our struggles. The alleged sexuality of Lindsey Graham, for instance. Smh

[oioioi]

3. Conversely, Mastodon is quite the opposite. Very inclusive and representative.

But yeah, some stuff posted here can be surprisingly off-key for a nominally progressive forum sometimes.

[Ms. Toad]

4. Really? Surely not after EarlG had said that wasn't cool here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=12142



Unfortunately, I know.

I responded to the first post I read mocking the use of pronouns, then ran into another, and another, and another . . . in thread after thread. So I decided rather than respond piecemeal I'd just start a thread.

[Lunabell]

5. It's kind of disheartening and I try to inform.

You can lead a horse to water...

Yeah, I got called a shit stirrer after I made a post about internalized homophobia. Back when Judy Gold made her comment about Lindsey Graham. Oh, it was ok to mock his sexuality because another LGBTQIA person did it, so that made it ok. That was before kanye wore his "white lives matter" shirt. Was THAT ok? No! Stupid is as stupid does.

[herding cats]

6. This is truth.

Once is a learning moment for our older group here who still need some education. After that it's an intentional insult against the community.

It's amazing how obtuse some people can be, consistently.

[MayReasonRule]

7. Morning Y'all!!

Age is no more a predictor of obtuseness regarding pronouns, than genetics are for predicting one's gender/genders/lack thereof.

Understanding this reveals how one might become quickly embroiled in ageism without manifest intent.

[herding cats]

12. Please, see my reply below

That truly wasn't my intention.

[hlthe2b]

8. No. Age is not a direct correlate on this any more than anything else on DU.

That is offensive as hell. How one can promote ageist stereotypes and bigotry in a post designed to support LGBTQ sensitivity escapes me.

And while Elon Musk's deplorable use of "pronouns" as an overt attack on the trans community in that post quite rightfully is called out, the fact that the tweet was likewise targeted at an 82-year-old hero of our public health system in the US, a courageous leader of NIH's infectious disease response and more importantly (with CDC) our National response for nearly 40 years including that to AIDs, SARS, Avian Flu, anthrax and smallpox bioterrorism risks, and COVID-19--calling for his PROSECUTION and imprisonment for doing his job and doing it well, deserves at least a mention and should not be parsed from the deserved recrimination.

[MayReasonRule]

9. Right on!

Age is generally no more a predictor of bias than genetics are for one's gender identity, lack thereof, or preferred pronouns.

Christo Fascists I've encountered, pretty consistently have obviously assumed without asking, that my preferred pronouns (in no particular order) are dick, cunt, asshole, prick and pussy.

I always just laugh, offer 'em a fist bump and tell 'em, "Right on, you've got me pegged!! I do identify as all of those from time to time! So, to make it easy, y'all can just call me y'all, 'cause it covers it all!"

Peace out y'all!

May reason rule.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

24. I am 57

And I use they/ them /we pronouns and I'm trans, asexual ace and gender queer.

Age has got nothing to do with mocking peoples pronouns. Yes older people with less knowledge or exposure to the gblt community may misgender,but once they understand why they try not to do it again.

The others are just rude ,ignorant and bigoted. Some are rude because of religion.

[MayReasonRule]

25. Delusion fuels hatred

Reason dispels delusion for those that will embrace it.

Those that are full of hatred are most often full of delusion.

Once someone has rejected doubt they have embraced delusion by definition.

This is why we see violent fundamentalist zealots of all types emerging from not only 'god' based religions, but also politics, business, and society writ large.

Delusion allows one to make up the evidence, to just merely know something is true without any facts and evidence unless it's manufactured in support of the false premise.

I am a child of the 60's myself.

I and mine all escaped from what we refer to as a 'biblical blood cult'.

I was suicidal for thirty years before I finally made my escape, leading my family to theirs in the ensuing years.

May reason rule where delusion dwells.

[herding cats]

10. My apologies.

I recently encountered a person using an old joke which used to be considered acceptable by society and was used often in television and movies back as recently as the 80's but is now widely understood to be offensive. The person who used it didn't realize that it was not an acceptable "joke" anymore (nor should it ever have been) and it was highly offensive. Which is why my mind went there.

Again my apologies. I should have made more clear I'm personally more inclined to explain and give an older person one second chance than a younger person who had been raised knowing how hurtful such a "joke" would have been their entire life.

I truly wasn't being agist in the way you were thinking.

[hlthe2b]

11. Thanks for clarifying...

I get it. I just don't want ageism, "fat" bigotry, and all too frequently, misogyny to be the last bastions of what occasionally passes as acceptable here on DU.

I get that that was not your intent.

[herding cats]

13. Thank you for understanding.

I agree with everything you said.

[Ms. Toad]

15. Not quite the same, but with time there comes a sort of muscle memory

When customs change, there is a rough correlation between muscle memory and age - but not always.

A trans friend of mine have people as many years as they had known her to get name and pronouns right - recognizing that people who had called her by her dead name had a lot of muscle memory to overcome - whereas people who had just met her (regardless of age) had none, and therefore no excuse.

But get that you were saying that those if is who are older might have accumulated more habits that have been part of oppressing others that we use without thinking. I'm guilty of that myself, and am always grateful when sometime makes me stop and think so I can retain myself so I can make a conscious effort not to use it in the future. It only took one uncomfortable silence after I told someone to get their "cotton-picking hands" off of my stuff for me to stop and think about whose hands it was that picked cotton. I am shocked that I made it to my 50s without thinking about where that phrase came from - but it's use in that instance truly was muscle memory. I have never used that phrase, other than as an example, since then - and if I do, I deserve whatever tongue lashing comes my way for consciously using insults drawn from slavery.

[herding cats]

20. I really like your example.

The cotton picking hands is something I grew up hearing from my grandparents and it took me well into adulthood to figure it out, too. I was reading a book about slavery and it described the hands of the slaves after a day of picking cotton and a light went on for me. My grandparents never expressed overt racism, but there were many phrases they used which were rooted in racism.

[MayReasonRule]

21. Right on y'all!

[BannonsLiver]

14. Oh boy here we go...

🙄

[Ms. Toad]

16. It would be nice if we didn't have to.

But I'm not about to let insults to my trans friends (or mockery of practices which makes them feel more welcome) slide by on DU once I see them.

[iemanja]

17. I have mine on my Zoom screen for work. nt

[Ms. Toad]

18. Mine is also in my email signature, as well.

I still forget sometimes when I introduce myself, though.

[dsc]

22. Thanks for posting this

Coming out is often a never ending process, I get new classes each semester and thus often have to come out again. It is often hard to do, even now. For trans people it must be terrifying. I have pronouns in my email signature at work, I am one of the few who do.

[Ms. Toad]

23. People who don't have to come out all of time rarely understand the emotional impact.

Been doing this for more than 4 decades, and it is only within the last few years that I don't (1) have a debate about whether I should just let the assumption that my spouse is male stand or correct it and (2) experience increased heart rate and mild anxiety when I invariably decide I need to make the correction.

Coming out, even in retirement, seems to happen at least once a week.

I'm bad about remembering to include my pronouns when I introduce myself, so I include them everywhere I can that will happen automatically (zoom name, email signatures).