Not that I'm happy about the solution to the alarming number of undocumented immigrants

[Baitball Blogger]

at the border, but, I know that if the Democrats don't at least broadcast whatever they're trying to do to alleviate the problem, it's just going to turn into an issue the Republicans will exploit in 2024. So here is my 2 cents:

1) There is a group out there that is telling these people that the border is open. They're behind the increase in the numbers. Obviously, they're the people who are profiting from these migrations. So, put arrest warrants out on them. With their country's approval, put their picture on a wanted poster and offer a reward.

2) People think that the Democrats are allowing all these immigrants to come into the US and stay. So film the process and show the wide number of people who are given an exit pass and returned to their own country. It is going to be painful to watch, but this is what needs to be done to convince people who have to walk across Central America, that it isn't worth it.

3) Inform us on what is driving this exodus. What is going on in these countries, that their leaders aren't even ashamed that so many want to leave?

[Phoenix61]

1. 1.No there isn't. 2. Show it to who? 3. They live in poverty

the likes of which no one in this country has seen for decades, if ever. They have no hope for a future. What ever chance they have to get into the US is worth it because they have no other option for a better life.

[Baitball Blogger]

5. Yes there is. Illegal immigration is a two billion dollar industry.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/24/us/central-american-migration-costs/index.html

In addition, at the beginning of the Biden term, a Republican was caught at a checkpoint at a time when a heavy migration began to come our way. He, allegedly, was the one that advised people that the Biden administration was lenient on immigration. I wish I could find that article, but doing google searches that pertain to the immigration issues brings up so many current articles that it would be tedious to find.

Jesus. Do you not have any rightwing relatives? They are getting fed a false narrative of what is happening at the border and the Democrats are blamed for DOING NOTHING. We know that's not the case. We know that this issue has been addressed, but that isn't coming across because we don't have news to counter what they're hearing on the right-wing channels.

This is a vulnerable issue for us. Saying nothing is handing the next election to the Republicans.

https://time.com/6215753/house-republicans-immigration-plan/


We need to spend more time finding solutions, than turning a blind eye. If we, as Democrats, want to help, our best option is to find out what we can do to help them in their own countries.

[Phoenix61]

8. Nothing in that article says they are being told the

borders are open. They are paying to be smuggled into the country. That inherently means the border isn’t open and they are aware of that fact. Any state that wanted to stop people unauthorized to work in that state from going there could do so. Pull the state business license for any business found with an employee they did not run through e-verify. Sadly, that will never happen because agriculture and hospitality are dependent on underpaid workers.
Kamala Harris went to those countries early on. Part of the issue is government corruption and the illegal drug trade, not always two separate things. The best thing the US could do to help our southern neighbors is to follow Portugal’s example for dealing with drugs.

[MichMan]

9. Clearly thousands a day are crossing successfully

First thing they do is call home and tell friends and family they made it. Once people hear that, word travels fast. It doesn't need to be a coordinated message.

[Phoenix61]

12. Made it and open borders are two entirely different things.

On a different note, if they couldn’t find work here they wouldn’t come. Neither party has addressed this simple issue. As long as employers find it financially advantageous to hire them they will.

[MichMan]

18. Pretty difficult to convince people border is closed and not to come

When they hear regular success stories of people they know that made it across.

They are going to believe what they see and hear for themselves, not what message the government broadcasts.

[Baitball Blogger]

11. Look at this video and watch the thousands that tried to cross YESTERDAY

and tell me that no one is encouraging them to take the pilgrimage to the US. These people don't just get up and leave their homes without a plan. They are bringing children with them, which means that someone has convinced them that they can keep them alive for the length of the trip.

And, here we go, I didn't make up the fact that people are encouraging them to come to the US. I have heard it spottingly said, just by watching the news. Maybe this is a perfect case where we need more investigative reporting to give Americans a better understanding of the problem.

https://nypost.com/2022/12/12/thousands-of-migrants-flood-over-border-at-el-paso/

[Phoenix61]

13. New York Post, seriously? nt

[Baitball Blogger]

23. I saw it on the regular news last night.

This was the first one that came up with a search.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/12/us/el-paso-migrants-border.html

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/massive-weekend-migrant-caravan-overwhelms-texas-border-town/

[Phoenix61]

45. None of what you've posted supports your statement

that the borders are open. What, specifically, do you think the democrats should do?

[Baitball Blogger]

46. I don't think you're trying hard enough.

But that's okay. Others see the situation as clearly as I do.

[Phoenix61]

47. You made a statement that you can't support and I'm

the one who’s not trying? Really?

[Baitball Blogger]

48. I have heard this said many times on the news.

I can't link an immediate article because it's one of the givens. I've heard the coyotes and even Republicans are spreading false information, but for different reasons. Maybe this is one of the holes in information that need to be addressed by news investigations, since there is so much skepticism that gets in the way of a good solution.

[inthewind21]

49. And clearly

You bought the BS hook line and sinker. If you want to know why the undocumented situation is what it is, may I suggest you stop listening to the news talk about all those scary Mexicans and looking south and actually look into it. And the National Review? Really!

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/13/key-facts-about-the-changing-u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population/

[Phoenix61]

52. Except it's not a given. It's a Republican talking point.

That’s all it is.

[Walleye]

2. It doesn't help that Republicans are broadcasting to the world if they think the border is open

The only people I ever hear saying open borders are Republicans. Do you think people wanting
to come to United States might just take them at their word. Maybe they should just shut the fuck up

[lambchopp59]

3. I'd prefer the relative ethical equanimity of most of the "illegals" over most Trumpers any day

I've offered to not only help pay for the one-way tickets to Russia for Trumpers but to help them pack.
But perhaps shipping many of them to the countries these refugees are coming from would serve justice far more effectively.

[MichMan]

4. From my understanding, only 1 in 5 asylum petitions are approved

Seems kind of cruel to allow anyone to claim asylum, let them stay while their hearings are scheduled, and then deport 80 % of them that don't qualify back to their country of origin.

1) Since the system is currently overwhelmed, how long does it actually take for the asylum cases to be adjudicated ? I assume there will always be some who don't appear. How many?

What can be done to speed up the process?

2 ) Are those who are turned down deported and in what percentage? Is there the resources to find them?

If the system is broken like everyone says, the hard data on this issue needs to be presented to dispel the RW talking points that we favor open borders.

If 90% appear for their hearings and of those who don't qualify, 90% are deported within 30 days, those facts need to be communicated regularly.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. Finally. Someone who gets it.

[NowISeetheLight]

40. Asylum Data

I found this online. It’s an analysis of asylum data by Syracuse University complete with graphs.

https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/667/

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

59. the other 80% don't get deported. Add to the hundreds of thousands that bypass the filing procedure

a massive army of mostly permanently undocumented is built up...people who live here there their entire lives without

protections and rights. (read about undocumented and retirement - they don't get to retire or have to depend on kids).

This growing army of undocumented is exploited for labor. The young kids they bring with them become the "... know no other country, grown up here, "i'm American with no papers" group. Even those who got DACA are in the "I'm in limbo" situation.

I have no solution, just pointing out some details.

[Bettie]

66. The solution is to

start penalizing employers. Put a few CEO's in prison and they start ensuring that their companies don't hire undocumented workers.

Also, there should be a path to citizenship, a real path. Let's start with the DACA people.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

69. so much of the hiring is done at the small bus level..mom and pop restaurants

[MichMan]

72. This

Imagine owning a roofing, drywall, or landscaping business and trying to pay your employees decent wages, health insurance, FICA, plus unemployment taxes and workmans comp insurance, while your competitor hires undocumented workers and pays them under the table, with none of those costs.

Then finding that you get underbid on every single job, and being told by customers that you are way overpriced.

[Raven123]

7. I agree with your assessment. Have written to Biden about the need to be public on this

Identify the issues, and the administration’s approach. Mayorkas could be, or at least hire, a spokesperson who could be out front.

[jcgoldie]

10. unemployment is still low

These people come because there are jobs for them to do. Last I checked statistics show they commit less crimes than native citizens. Aside from the racism and xenophobia of 1/2 the country I do not understand whats the immigration problem?

[Baitball Blogger]

14. AND, I heard a report that said that part of our inflation problem

is tied to the problem of not having enough people to work at low wages.

It seems like we need a massive public information campaign to try to resolve this properly.

[CrispyQ]

15. That sounds like a marketing campaign & our side doesn't do marketing.

We surrendered the narrative to the right decades ago & evidently we still don't see the value in proclaiming our values and policies to the American public, otherwise people would know that the economy actually does better under democrats than republicans. We have a winning message, we just don't advertise it. I thought we were the smart party, so this shit drives me fucking crazy.

[Baitball Blogger]

19. +1

[area51]

58. +1 n/t

[Mariana]

16. 1) There is a group out there that is telling these people that the border is open.

That would be the Republican Party, the members of which constantly insist that Biden has completely opened the border.

[Baitball Blogger]

20. Yes.

[MichMan]

21. Their family, friends, and neighbors that crossed successfully and called home to let everyone know.

That's whom is telling them it is open

[Baitball Blogger]

28. There might be some truth to it.

But, also, those who were interviewed crossing the Darien said they would never do it again.

[treestar]

17. Alarming number?

Are they "flooding" us with "hordes?"

How do these people, even coming illegally, really mess up Americans' lives? Why do they care so much about this? They don't have bigger problems directly affecting them?

[Baitball Blogger]

24. It's a photo op that requires Dems to outline how we're going to

address it, before it becomes Republican ammunition against Biden..

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/massive-weekend-migrant-caravan-overwhelms-texas-border-town/

[inthewind21]

50. Stop

With the national review nonsense. That's a right wing rag. I counted all of 10 people in that photo. You call that a Massive Hoard?

[Baitball Blogger]

54. Right. So I prove to you that they're going to use this issue against us,

and you refuse to consider it.

Par for the course.

[inthewind21]

63. You

Didn't prove squat. You posted from a right wing rag. And are repeating RW talking points. You may be easily convinced by RW bullshit. I am not. And no one has to prove to anyone the R's will use whatever made up shit they can to incite an OH MY GOD the sky is falling panic. Anyone with half a brain that is. So what's your point? Thanks for playing. Try again!

[Baitball Blogger]

64. Right. Listen to yourself

I told you that the right wing plans to use this issue against Biden and I post an article showing that they’re doing it, and you refuse to see the connection,

Outstanding.

[treestar]

70. Republicans are going to use everything, true and false

and they don't do nuance. Whatever the answer is, it is not trying to placate them; whatever is done won't be enough.

[treestar]

67. Photos is of border patrol detaining them

which is how it is addressed. Photo does not prove any "massive caravan" or "overwhelming" of a border town, which would be used to this.

[NowISeetheLight]

43. Is Expensive

The end cost is about $12b a year in extra costs for taxpayers after deducting for taxes paid by illegal immigrants. Healthcare and education are two primary drivers. One study I read said corporate businesses SAVE about $1.5b a year due to wage depression hiring them instead of US citizens. So corporate America has no problem profiting off it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12291891/

AG Paxton in Texas has this on his website. This is the tactic Republicans are using. It costs people money in tax dollars. People see dollar amounts and that’s all they care about. Especially now with inflation.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-illegal-immigration-costs-texas-taxpayers-over-850-million-each-year

“Texans pay between $579 million and $717 million each year for public hospital districts to provide uncompensated care for illegal aliens.

Texans paid $152 million to house illegal criminal aliens for just one year.

Texans pay between $62 million and $90 million to include illegal aliens in the state Emergency Medicaid program.

Texans paid more than $1 million for The Family Violence Program to provide services to illegal aliens for one year.

Texans pay between $30 million and $38 million per year on perinatal coverage for illegal aliens through the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

Texans pay between $31 million and $63 million to educate unaccompanied alien children each year.”

[treestar]

68. right wingers want to think that

but there is no proof. The state of Texas cannot analyze who is illegal or not. Illegal aliens are NOT able to get Medicaid - another right wing lie. LOL if Texas gives it to them, that was their choice. They would pay more in federal taxes for deportation operations. Biden has deported a lot of people, too. I guess they choose to ignore that.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=number+deported+during+Biden+administration

The first page of google results shows everything from claims he is deporting too many to claims he is not deporting enough.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-one-year-mark

Interesting points made here: Biden having to deal with TFG's mess.

[Hotler]

22. Maybe GOP deep pockets are funding a campaign telling and helping immigriants

to come here. The fuckers think it's cute to ship immigrants to blue states maybe this is on them also. They like their dirty tricks.

[Baitball Blogger]

25. I wouldn't doubt it.

[NickB79]

26. There are 10 million empty job positions in the US

Lack of employees is driving inflation. Americans aren't having large families anymore, so immigration is the only way to fill the gap.

We need to be proposing ways to rapidly screen and give citizenship to these immigrants. There's no reason a hardworking young man or woman at the border couldn't be a productive citizen within 6 months of entering the US.

Sell it to rural communities as a way to revitalize their dying small towns. Small family farms, vibrant communities, full schools, full churches, all made possible by immigrants.

[Baitball Blogger]

29. Agreed.

But do you see anyone doing a massive education campaign to build a foundation for a sensible way to fill the holes in our labor force?

[NickB79]

37. Not a chance, sadly

I grew up in one of those dying rural communities I mentioned.

The overwhelming consensus when I go home still seems to be a willingness to let the town wither up and die before they accept a few non-white immigrants as their equals.

And this in a town that was settled by German, Norwegian and Swedish immigrants, where a lot of the 80 yr olds grew up speaking, and still speak fluently, a foreign language instead of English.

[Hortensis]

27. Helps me to remember there is no solution and the problem will get worse

as planet-wide climate devastation continues. Including the fear-driven rage of many in destination regions that will continue to grow with mass migration and threaten to bring down their own nations.

Not to give up helping in all the various ways available, there are many things we can do, just...perspective. 1 and 2 at the top of my list are:

1. Destination nations have to maintain their own stability and decency in the midst of growing chaos. Mass migration could cause a critical mass of Americans to embrace a strong RW authoritarian government to stop immigration, as is happening elsewhere. We elected a good leader speaking to good principles in Biden, but he knows the anxieties of the right cannot be ignored and must be addressed and lessened by their government.

2. The most valuable "solutions," giant and small, are those that keep life in troubled regions sustainable and lower the number of people who will be forced to leave their own homes, or at least their own people.

We just got wonderful news from those working to fast-track fusion energy to reality. We have to keep much of the world, including ours, from collapsing into cruel darkness before that happens, though -- part of #1.

[Pobeka]

44. Thank you. This is the root cause, and not emphasized enough. +1! nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

30. What kind of solution do you want?

One that helps the most people globally, one that controls the most people, one that results in the most wins for Democrats, one that simply makes "the problem" less visible, what?

[Baitball Blogger]

32. Obviously, not looking to resolve this with less visibility.

Quite the opposite, as I've said in many posts. We need to make very public what the Democrats support in the way of immigration.

1) They need to report on the numbers they turn away to shut off the Republican counter campaign, framing us as weak on immigration,

and,

2) they need to start an education program to gain American support for a sensible program that will increase legal immigration to fill holes the labor force. And they should be able to get this support if it's true that inflation is tied to the problem of finding people who are willing to fill low earning jobs.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. OK so...

1. Republicans would definitely have a counter campaign if Democrats were to highlight the cruelty of the immigration and asylum systems.

2. If you don't think Republicans would have a counter campaign to Democrats saying "filling jobs" was the reason they're increasing legal immigration...I mean, whew.

[Baitball Blogger]

39. We aren't going to find out what they're going to do, until we

make the next move.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. Your two suggestions focus on education of Republicans and the wider population.

I am someone who believes not acting because of what Republicans might do is the wrong approach. But centering your solutions to the "immigration problem" on the education of Republicans and the wider population is not a solution at all. There's no action, just propaganda.

[Baitball Blogger]

55. If there was ever an issue that Democrats need public support to pursue their agend, it is this one.

You only get that by laying a foundation on a public level.

They need to control the framing on this from the start.

[CrispyQ]

31. The easy & more effective solution is to fine the businesses that hire undocumented workers.

Oh my bad! We don't penalize the corporations, only the poor & desperate people looking for a better life.

Every job I've gotten I've had to show proof of eligibility to work. Raid the HR departments of these businesses & make them show proof that their employees are actually eligible to work in the USA. But we never do that, cuz you know, that might get in the way of shareholder PROFIT.

[Baitball Blogger]

33. Sadly, many of them live secretive lives, because they fear

being deported.

What businesses that are owned by Anglos do, is they get a foreman who has connections into this labor force. So they have plausible deniability.

In those cases, I myself would turn a blind eye.

[ripcord]

34. Many apply with false Social Security numbers

Of course they are penalized.

[MichMan]

36. And then deport everyone working illegally?

Even if they've been here for years? Sounds great until you consider the ramifications.

A sizable number are working for small business in jobs like construction, landscaping and a myriad of other things, not big corporations. These small businesses don't have a HR dept.

A certain number of undocumented workers use stolen and fake SS and Green cards in order to work. Do employers think they are legit, or do they look the other way ?

[CrispyQ]

41. Well okay then.

You & the other two responders have made it clear that the problem is way too big & complicated to even try to fix, so why bother?

[inthewind21]

51. Well

In Texas, they refuse to use e-verify. As do several other states. There's a reason for that. In all the suggested "Solutions to the immigrant problem", (does that phrase sound a touch familiar?) I have yet to hear anyone talk about the employers that hire them. It IS illegal to hire undocumented immigrants yet we never hear of an employer being held to account. Instead, we hear about all the scary immigrants who are flooding the southern border and raping your daughters and stealing your job. Which by the way , exactly how does one go about stealing a job? I'd like to steal a better one!

[CrispyQ]

61. Yeah, the corporations are always off the hook.

And people are conditioned to argue in their favor almost without a thought. I noticed in Biden's recent speech regarding the railway union contract there was no mention of the billions the companies are making. I had a friend argue that we shouldn't raise corporate taxes cuz they'll just raise prices, & I said, they're raising the pries anyway, so why not get some revenue from them & fix things?

They're corporations. They exist on paper. They're not living, breathing entities. They can do with a little less!

[inthewind21]

53. DING DING DING

You win the prize. And with a little Googling, you can find story after story after story. See Alabama Chicken industry and Agriculture. See California's Central Valley. Hell just google just about any state in the US!

[doc03]

38. They are coming here for work, make it undesirable to hire undocumented workers. I

would guess for the most part they are working for Republicans.

[hunter]

56. How is it affecting life in your neighborhood?

If we aggressively enforced labor laws immigration wouldn't really be a problem.

Corporations that regularly abuse undocumented workers should be subject to a corporate death penalty.

As things stand now the most vile employers in the U.S.A. can profit from the abuse of undocumented workers with few consequences to their owners.

[ismnotwasm]

57. Given we are recovering from a global pandemic

That hit everyone, but poorer countries very, very hard. Given that Central and South America have everyone else fucking with their laws and economies, I’m not sure that’s the way to frame the issue.

Here’s an opinion piece from NBC, on the “open border” myth, I think you are correct in labeling it a psych-ops from Republicans, Greg Abbot never shuts up about “the border crisis” and and a shit ton of information, good, bad and fucking evil, about immigrants comes from Texas, but the issue is far more complex

The GOP's myth of an 'open border'
The U.S. borders are guarded by a vast and well-funded national security agency that has grown far larger and more powerful in recent years.

Whether or not DeSantis’ stunt is found to have violated the law, it was cruel and dehumanizing. This action — and similar ones orchestrated by other GOP governors — have also deliberately elevated the “open border” narrative, which falsely represents that unlawful immigrants are waltzing into the U.S. through a porous southern border in droves. The purported lawless and open border has been the main justification cited by DeSantis and other GOP governors, who have doubled down on their decision to transport migrants to prominent locations with Democratic elected officials — even though the GOP governors have deliberately made no attempt to coordinate these transfers.

Contrary to the “open border” myth, U.S. borders are guarded by a vast and well-funded national security agency that has grown far larger and more powerful in recent years. Since 2001, U.S. Border Patrol has nearly doubled in capacity, from fewer than 10,000 agents to now more than 19,500. The Biden administration has requested $97.3 billion in funding for the Department of Homeland Security for fiscal year 2023, including billions of dollars for border security and interior immigration enforcement.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/desantis-abbott-using-open-border-myth-to-justify-moving-migrants-rcna48844

[GusBob]

60. Root cause analysis

I agree with #3

Try and fix the problem at the source

[MichMan]

62. How long do you think that will take ?

Let's agree that is the logical solution. We can't even solve poverty and homelessness here and have been trying for 50 years.

It would be one thing if it was isolated to a few countries, but people are coming from all over the world to go through the Southern border. Africa, Eastern Europe, South and Central America.

What should be done in the meantime?

[inthewind21]

65. People

Are flying in from all over the world on perfectly legal visas. Problem is, a very lot of them never leave. And they ain't heading to the southern border to take a hike across the dessert and Rio Grande to make their way across, they are landing at JFK, Atlanta Metro, DFW, SFO, Detroit Metro and a whole bunch of others. 40% of "undocumented" immigrants are coming in on legal visas, landing in airports all over the country and staying. Yet we only hear the panic over the southern border.

Interesting report on "undocumented" and the breakdown of who is who in the undocumented world.

https://cis.org/Report/Latest-DHS-Report-Overstays-2020-Brings-Mixed-News

[yellowdogintexas]

71. Add this:Heavily Punish those who are hiring these undocumented persons to work

for cheap in the US with lots of publicity. One of the motivations for just getting across the border (after those who need asylum) is work so they can send money home to their families.

If these companies/individuals were not illegally hiring, there would be less motivation.


There are legal options for those wishing to hire agricultural workers, but those options cost the employer money and are somewhat complicated. Several of the farmers I know in Kentucky are legally hiring workers through this agency; it costs them money but they get very good workers in return. My brother in law and my cousin team up to bring in a crew every year. They can't get locals to stay with the work, but they are required to offer employment to locals to prove how much the imported workers are needed. This all has to be documented. +

[MichMan]

73. The government should send in decoys, with or without fake documents to apply for jobs

If an employer hires them, arrest them on the spot, and then round up any other undocumented workers they have. Shut down the entire company. Word will get around.