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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf I were sitting on a jury, the 187 minutes evidence Alone, would be enough for me to vote guilty.
It has been proven Trump called the crowd to Washington.
It has been proven Trump sent the crowd to the Capital.
It has been proven Trump and others angered the crowd before they sent them to the Capital.
It has been proven Trump knew the crowd was armed.
It has been proven Trump sent the crowd to the Capital at the same time the vote counting was to begin. Anyone sitting on a jury would understand that was not an accident, it was planned.
It has been proven Trump watched the attack for hours on TV and did nothing.
It has been proven everyone around Trump, including his own children, told him to call off the attack, he refused.
Trump could have tweeted, appeared on TV and told the crowd attacking the Capital to stop. Most damning of all, Trump could have made one phone call and ordered the National Guard in to stop the attack. He did nothing.
It has been proven Trump tweeted during the attack about Pence, further inciting the crowd.
All of the above proves intent beyond reasonable doubt. Trump wanted the attack to happen, to continue.
As a juror, following this evidence, following the law, I would vote guilty on these charges.
Trump aided and abetted an attack on the Capital beyond reasonable doubt.
Trump obstructed an official act of congress beyond a reasonable doubt. I would vote guilty on these charges and possibly more.
By the way, prosecutors have a lot more evidence than just the 187 minutes evidence. If I were a prosecutor I would not be afraid to prosecute Trump out of the fear I would lose.
Some people may ask, why am I so obsessed with the prosecution of Trump. It may be because a no good rotten fucking traitor attempted to destroy the country I love. Yea, that could be the reason.
Merry Christmas everyone. May the new year bring many indictments.
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chriscan64
(1,789 posts)Even with the most extremely charitable interpretation of events, like he had to right to challenge the election, exercise free speech, never explicitly said to attack the Capitol, etc. he still sat on his ass and watched it on TV without lifting a finger to help. That alone should have resulted in conviction in the impeachment trial and the barring of future office holding.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)
Thunderbeast
(3,819 posts)Trump and his head coach, Vladimir Putin, have been operating from the the Russia/Soviet playbook. There are many in Congress and the courts with dossiers decades in the making. The co-conspirators live in fear that their secrets will be exposed and their cushy lives ruined.
This is not politics we are dealing with. It is an organized crime network with a vast intelligence operation, a military, and nuclear weapons.
paleotn
(22,218 posts)And they have no scruples. I've found Republicans to be hyper machiavellian, dumb or some combination of the two.
CentralMass
(16,971 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 25, 2022, 11:31 AM - Edit history (1)
kentuck
(115,406 posts)It would be so comical as to border on insanity.
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)It is his right not to if he is being tried. He wouldn't take the chance.
His style would be to throw minions on the stand to muddy the waters with perjured testimony and take the blame.
His goal would be to create a reasonable doubt and find a loophole for appeal.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)He did it. Pleading insanity wouldn't work.
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)It would be his attorneys that would prevent him or try to prevent him.
paleotn
(22,218 posts)You're goddamn right I did!!
Squaredeal
(733 posts)It’s obvious that he is guilty “Beyond a reasonable doubt”.
brush
(61,033 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)In his hubris, Trump created a veritable roadmap of his intent, his participation - and ultimately, the irrefutable evidence of his myriad crimes along the way.
He obviously believed that covering his tracks wasn't necessary, because his coup would be a success. And as the re-installed POTUS, he could quash any investigations that sought to connect the dots after-the-fact.
As is usually the case with those whose arrogance is equal to their own stupidity, the "stable genius" figured that leaving behind a trail of smoking guns would never result in being shot in the ass - over, and over, and over again.
I believe the New Year will usher in a time of great reckoning - not only for Trump, but for those in the GOP who were dumb enough to bet on a proven idiot who wasn't smart enough to hide the evidence.
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)Don't worry about the aftermath as his attorneys would fix it for him. Along with anyone he has bribed.
NY needs to do a better job of convicting Mafia and others.
FoxNewsSucks
(11,704 posts)The real question to be asked isn't why you or any of us are 'obsessed' with prosecuting MF45 & his corrupt family, it's why the FUCK isn't every other decent American equally "obsessed'????
They're all traitors and thieves. It's not OK or normal. They should already be locked up.
FakeNoose
(41,634 posts)... but it takes more to prove his conspiring and planning the insurrection.
If intelligent people are chosen for the eventual jury, I believe most Americans would have no trouble convicting Chump of the crimes he'll be charged with. However negligence won't be one of them, sadly.
Case in Point: Chump was negligent during the pandemic crisis and caused the deaths of a half-million Americans. Are we outraged over that? Of course, but he won't be tried or convicted for that.
Even considering how low the bar is set for "Bad Presidents" in the United States, Chump is the absolute worst President - EVER! I agree that any jury would convict Chump of high crimes in office, but I don't believe the 187 minutes of doing nothing is enough proof by itself. He must be charged and convicted. He must face the consequences of his crimes.
KPN
(17,377 posts)to put it plainly. Put him away -- for life or at least most of what he has left of it.
paleotn
(22,218 posts)most Americans fight tooth and nail NOT to sit on a jury. We don't take the obligation seriously and sometimes end up with the juries we deserve.
Joinfortmill
(21,165 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)even when inadequate to the situation. That's why judges are required to set aside jury verdicts that violate the law. Judges are the triers of The Law, juries the triers of fact.
republianmushroom
(22,326 posts)23 months and counting
Snackshack
(2,587 posts)Trump and many more GOP should be in jail right now but that is not going to happen.
Trump & GOP have already won. The simple lack of any justice out of garland has ensured this. That it took a committee to possibly prod the DOJ into doing something is fucking pathetic and still not a for sure thing. Justice should have been front and center in this doing what it is supposed to do which is provide law & order to promote civilization and it has failed. Anything done now just looks like forced action instead of needed accountability to these fuckers.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Investigations take time. Garland has been doing something. Hundreds of people have been arrested, tried and convicted. Including people convicted for seditious conspiracy. Prosecuting an ex-president and scores of people who enabled him takes time. You just don't do it.
Garland added Jack Smith as a special prosecutor to gather all the evidence needed in order to indict. They had to wait for the J6 committee to hand over all their evidence so they could combine it with their evidence. You don't indict people without all the evidence. That is being done right now.
I have said this before. If you are going to attack Garland you must also attack DA Willis. She started her investigation before Garland took office. Her investigation is much, much, smaller than Garlands investigation. She has not indicted anybody yet. Yet nobody complains about her. Investigations take time whether you like it or not.
Trump has won nothing. There is no evidence the investigations are slowing down. As a matter of fact they are growing in size and scope. Most likely the Georgia investigation should be completed first. If DA Willis indicts some of the coup plotters then there will be a very good chance Garland will follow with federal charges when his investigation is completed.
The Republicans will bitch and moan when ever indictments come. It doesn't matter if it's now, 6 months from now, a year from now. All that matters is all the traitors are indicted.
Snackshack
(2,587 posts)At DOJ, it only natural to hold the decision makers accountable even when they make no decisions.
You have a very sanguine outlook on this much more than me.
Usually a person in a position of authority like POTUS that lies about a deadly virus and impedes to response to said deadly virus that ends up killing over 1 million Americans or incites hundreds in national tv to attack the Capitol then as if that wasn’t enough steals 100’s of national secrets. DT should already be sitting in jail for any one of these crimes. It’s not like he is a criminal mastermind ( or maybe he is). He seems to think if he commits the crime rt out in the open it’s ok…and I have to admit that has obviously worked for him and his minions.
As for my pin pointing of garland, he is end of line at DOJ so that is natural but you are right there is a whole group at justice in prosecution positions who seem to just be sitting around hoping someone else will make the 1st move. Vance should have but he punted to Bragg who punted charges rt out of the office. The NY prosecutor who inexplicably thought announcing a run for governor was a good idea got some nice conviction against the business but DT will never spend a day in jail for that, the CEO maybe but not DT.
The fact the DT still walks free and has caused the system of justice that has existed for over 200yrs and while not perfect it is robust to be put on hold or delayed for over 2yrs now is a giant win for DT. It has given DT and his enablers months now to continue to lie and misdirect causing even more delays and what you see now in the Kari Lake election loss is what it is going to be from here on out for the foreseeable future or until the GOP get mature members. The GOP will never concede another election loss again even if they only 1 vote.
No, DT has cause irrevocable changes to our systems of governance and law & order for the worse not better,…unless we do the hard part now and allow justice to be done. You don’t have to take my word for it. Go to YouTube and watch some of the video postings by Glenn Kirschner who was at DOJ for 30yrs.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,869 posts)Prairie_Seagull
(4,689 posts)Guilty.
jmowreader
(53,194 posts)We’ve all seen it once. After we noticed the date rape scene we probably used the tape for a football game, but anyway…
Okay, there was this big sequence at Homecoming where all the frats on campus competed for the honor of being the student council president. The nerd fraternity won. Shortly thereafter the football coach screamed at the jock fraternity members and told them something like “I’d do something about that.” The jock fraternity immediately ran over and destroyed the nerds’ frat house.
Every time I recall the attack on the Capitol I think of that scene, because the same thing happened both places.