Whoopi Goldberg Doubles Down on Holocaust Views ... In New Interview

[ripcord]

The famous cohost of "The View" chatted with The Times, where her so-called "cancelation" was brought up ... and it got Whoopi on a new mini-rant about the Jewish people and whether they're a race or not -- something that got her in trouble earlier this year.

Whoopi says that Jewish people themselves are divided on whether they're actually a race or not, even quoting one Jewish friend as saying ... "Not for nothing is there no box on the census for the Jewish race. So that leads me to believe that we’re probably not a race."

The author points out what many have already said on this topic -- namely, that the Nazis viewed the Jews as a race, therefore (in this context) they should be discussed as such.

To that, Whoopi replied ... "Yes, but that’s the killer, isn’t it? The oppressor is telling you what you are. Why are you believing them? They’re Nazis. Why believe what they’re saying?"

Whoopi goes on to double down on the notion that the Holocaust wasn't about race, from her POV, by saying ... "Remember who they were killing first. They were not killing racial; they were killing physical. They were killing people they considered to be mentally defective. And then they made this decision.”


https://www.tmz.com/2022/12/24/whoopi-goldberg-doubles-down-antisemitic-views-new-interview/

Just shut up!

[TigressDem]

1. Jews get to call themselves "a race" partly because of their dedication to records.

All the "begats" in the Old and New Testament are about who was born into their lineage.

So even when they were nomadic and did not have their own country, which I guess makes them Israeli politically, they were keeping track of their people as descendants of the original tribes.

SO THAT WORK gives them a right to call themselves whatever they want.

https://sarata.com/bible/verses/about/begat.html


BUT possibly why Whoopi is calling this out is because Hitler was also sterilizing and killing blacks.

AND he went after Jews because his father taught him to hate that side of himself. Stories vary as to whether it was his Mother or paternal Grandfather or (yuck) BOTH. Regardless, he took that hatred out into the World and created one of the worst annihilation story of history.


BASICALLY, I think she is saying Hitler is WORSE than Genocide of ONE race. He sought to eradicate ALL other races besides the pure Germans, which he himself was not even actually a member due to mixed heritage.



https://www.history.com/news/study-suggests-adolf-hitler-had-jewish-and-african-ancestors

To unravel the mystery of the Fuhrer’s roots, the Belgian journalist Jean-Paul Mulders teamed up with Marc Vermeeren, a historian who has written extensively about Hitler and his ancestors. The duo collected saliva samples from 39 of the infamous dictator’s living relatives, including a great-nephew, Alexander Stuart-Houston, who lives in New York, and an Austrian cousin identified only as “Norbert H.” Tests were then conducted to reveal the samples’ principal haplogroups, which are sets of chromosomes that geneticists use to define specific populations.

Writing in the Flemish-language magazine Knack, Mulders reported that the relatives’ most dominant haplogroup, known as E1b1b, is rare in Western Europeans but common among North Africans, and particularly the Berber tribes of Morocco, Algeria, Libya and Tunisia. It is also one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population, present in 18 to 20 percent of Ashkenazi Jews and 8.6 to 30 percent of Sephardic Jews. In other words, Hitler’s family tree may have included Jewish and African ancestors.

The tragic irony of the discovery, of course, is that Hitler’s Nazi regime systematically wiped out an estimated two-thirds of Europe’s Jewish population between 1933 and 1945. People of African descent were also considered enemies of the Aryans, whose supposed racial purity and superiority were central to the “Mein Kampf” author’s lethal rhetoric. As Mulders put it in the Knack article, “One can from this postulate that Hitler was related to people whom he despised.”

[Stuart G]

2. Whoopi needs to "Shut Up" Enough !

[TigressDem]

3. She needs to be further educated.

For some reason her Jewish friends understand what she is saying, so I think it must go deeper than a sound bite.

It could be an overall rejection of this whole idea of "race" as a way to define and reject, humiliate and kill others at will.

Maybe the idea that someone can use race against people is what she is fighting. I don't know.

But yeah, if you take it with only the context given; she sounds a little stupid here, I agree.


When in deep doo doo, best to keep mouth shut.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

4. Kind of like saying Hitler didn't initially

Have plans to conquer Europe and the Slavic regions because he first only occupied the Sudetenland?

If that monster killed “mental defectives” first, it’s because they were the easiest to kill, Whoopie, not because he had no other plans.

[marble falls]

8. Whoopi needs to realize the Holocaust was not a spur of the moment whim. Very disappointed.

[Stuart G]

5. What is interesting is that Whoopi thinks she knows it all...(about Jewish People) but knowing it...

all...... is a characteristic of another ..."well known person."

[FakeNoose]

6. Well she has a point, even though it's inelegantly stated

... just as Ivanka Chump converted to Judaism when she married Jared Kushner. She studied the religion and became Jewish, it's not all that uncommon. Her children are being raised in the Jewish faith. But Ivanka's DNA didn't change just because she's practicing Judaism. Did she join another "race" just because she starting praying a different way? No of course not.

If Ivanka and Jared should be divorced and she were to no longer practice Judaism, does her "race" change as well? Ridiculous question. A person's race can't be determined by what church they go to, or even if they practice religion at all. As inelegantly as it was stated, a person's "religion" has no bearing on how their "race" is determined.

[marble falls]

10. So mixed races are what? I think at best your effort to make an elegant expaination of ...

... of Whoopie's inelegant explanation is ... well ... inelegant.

[FakeNoose]

11. Mixed races have nothing to do with religion

A person's religion (or lack of religion) will never determine race.

That was my point, and probably what Whoopie was trying to say.

[marble falls]

13. I know. How do you explain mixed race? One drop of black blood seems to mean someone ...

... is black. To black people and to other races. Why is anti-Jewish action referred to Anti-Semitism, Semites are a race.

Race is very complicated. It would be unseemly for non-Jews to determine their race for them. Others have tried it to the detriment of Jewish people.

Whoopi is welcome to her opinions, as are you and I. But neither she, you nor I should get too worked up about it.

Happy Holidays to you and your and yours, and to Whoopi, too. May we all avoid the minefield of defining others.

[grantcart]

16. Starting in 1980 the International Organization for Migration

(which I worked for) worked for assisting Israel in moving 95,000 Ethiopian Jews to Israel under Operation Moses and Operation Solomon. While not ethnically Jewish and not mixed race these African Jews were adjudicated to be religiously qualified Jews.

Turns out that Jews constitute both a race and a religion. There are many secular Jews who no longer participate in the Jewish religion and there are Jews whose families have been faithful adherents to the religion of Judaism for more than a thousand years who have no ethnic connection to the main group of Jews.

The Rabbinical tests on whether they were Jewish or not had to do with how their religious practices confirmed to ancient Jewish Orthodox practices. The Chief Rabbi was stunned to find that this lost "tribe" of Jews were more consistent with the ancient practices than almost all of the practicing Jews in Israel. Race was never a factor.

[marble falls]

23. Best explanation yet, I ask good questions, but flub explanations.

[Demsrule86]

36. No, She is wrong and I lost a great deal of respect for her...she is minimizing murder of

millions of Jews IMHO..

[iemanja]

41. Being Jewish is a lot more than choosing which "church" to go to

History tells us why.

[hedda_foil]

7. Jewish people are Not a racial group any more than the Irish are.

Whoopi is talking about race as defined by outmoded 19th Century standards.

[Butterflylady]

9. We are all one race. It is called

The Human Race. That's how i call everyone of us.

[Tarc]

29. That is a decidedly white perspective

You don't get to erase other people's cultural identity just because it makes you uncomfortable.

[old as dirt]

35. The social sciences are hard.

Especially when they involve cultural identities.

I've heard folks say that mathematics is hard, but in actuality we study the very simplest of phenomena.

If there's one thing that I've learned from reading about the 500 year history of my wife's palenque culture from historians and anthropologists, it is that religion (or music and dance, for that matter) cannot be neatly separated out from culture and put in neat tidy little boxes.

I get the impression that indigenous cultures post similar conceptual difficulties for westerners.

I suspect that our own culture of so-called "rugged individualism" makes us try to impose the view of religion and mythology as an individualistic thing, without reference to culture and identity, on other cultures which do not share those attributes.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. Race or Religion or both and/or descendants of those who considered themselves Jewish

whether or not they identified with the Jewish faith or their Jewish ancestry, Those were people who the Nazis targeted for extermination, not because they were mentally defective. They were killed for being Jewish.

[LeftInTX]

14. Complicated. Genetically, Middle Eastern and Eastern European

So, not quite European.
White and not as white...
(That's what I am genetically, although I'm 1/2 Armenian. I'm also related to a few Jewish people and their genes are similar)

Culturally different than non-Jewish groups, especially in Eastern Europe.

I always felt that they were victims of a sick culture war and the Nazi's never believed what they said about them. It was anti-sematic propaganda BS, that stoked old beliefs and stereotypes in the general public. Ultimately, they killed them because they had different political beliefs, wouldn't go along with the Third Reich nonsense, and made up all that stuff to justify exterminating them. (Kinda like Qanon makes up BS)

[grantcart]

17. There are also African Jews. 95,000 Ethiopian Jews were moved

To Israel starting in 1980.

[LeftInTX]

19. Yes. But I was referring to Ashkenazi Jews and Hitler's BS.

Ironically, there are also a few black Armenians from Ethiopia.

[grantcart]

21. Interesting.

[Red Pest]

15. The Jewish people are not a racial group (as some others have also posted).

The Jewish people are all members of a religion - Judaism. We are also members of a general ethnic group defined by our religion with several subdivisions: Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrachi, Ethiopian/Beta Israel/Falashi, and a few others. The first three groups all have genetic markers that link them together with each other and with inhabitants of the Middle East. Ethiopian Jews are genetically distinct. Interestingly, Ashkenazi Jews developed the Yiddish language (from High German, Hebrew, and Aramaic). Sephardi Jews developed Ladino from Spanish and Hebrew.

While most American Jews are Askenazi, the first Jews to come to the New World were Sephardi, attempting to escape the Inquisition. The earliest congregations were established in what is how the US were in New York City (then New Amsterdam) and Newport, Rhode Island. Note that these people were strong supporters of the American Revolution.

So, are we a racial group? No. We are a religious/ethnic group. We intermarry with the populations with whom we live. Some convert to Judaism and become members. Over time we look like the population in which we live, but retain ethnic and religious identity.

This raises the question of what is "race"? African Americans whose ancestors were enslaved and brought to the New World hundreds of years ago have genetically mixed with the populations in the Americas - Native Americans and various European groups. The same is true for any group of people who have been invaded or did the invading.

So, with regards to Hitler and his racial purity nonsense - all I can say is that it is nonsense, pure bullshit. Those that continue to embrace those ideas are batshit crazy. Just an excuse to turn people against others for no rational reason.

[grantcart]

18. Good post, you might be interested in #16 above.

[Happy Hoosier]

27. Excellent post! Thanks! NT

[MichMan]

20. Caryn Johnson

Isn't this the same thing she was previously suspended for and issued an apology ?

[question everything]

22. My thoughts. Wish she'd said it as Caryn Johnson and eliminate any ideas

that "well, if a Jew thinks so.."

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Looks like she isn't the only one 'slpanin.

She needs to either shut the fuck up or take a goddamned history course. This is bordering on historical revisionism, and it is NOT a good look for her or those making excuses for her!

[Sympthsical]

25. It's all very complicated and nuanced

*checks to make sure Kanye or another right-winger didn't make the comments*

Yes, very nuanced. Not even wrong, really. The people who think she's ignorant are the ones who are truly wrong. Allow wikipedia and my vast knowledge of whatever I just googled explain.

Seriously. The idea that Jews were seen as a race in Europe for the better part of a millennium suddenly needs context and picking apart because, uh, Whoopi Goldberg.

And some of it actually reads like, "Are they Jew Jews or just Jews?" so Whoopi would approve there.

And this is getting managed on Christmas. Team-based thinking at its absolute finest. "We'll rationalize out ignorance of Jewish oppression to save a celebrity we enjoy."

I mean, not one of my priorities, but people have their things.

[Mysterian]

26. A lot of rich people think they know stuff,

and babble like fucking idiots.

[MichMan]

28. It takes a lot of chutzpah to double down by repeating something that previously got you suspended

[Tarc]

30. Whoopi is in a hole, and needs to stop digging

There has long been this strange enmity between blacks and Jews, perpetuated and fueled by extremists on both sides. It needs to end.

[Joinfortmill]

31. So, my ex-husband is 99% Ashkenazi Jewish

according to DNA testing. The subject is complicated. I think it's safe to say the Nazis wanted to kill anyone they deemed unworthy of their view of the 'perfect' Aryan.

[Demsrule86]

37. The Jews were particular targeted for being Jews...not because they were not Aryan.

[Joinfortmill]

39. Yes, I realize that.

[Bucky]

32. This is one of those topics that you can't discuss on its merits w/o sounding like a creep

The core of the issue is that, from a scientific, objective view, there's no such thing as "race" that we can all agree on.

Once upon a time race just meant nationality. There was an English race, a Chinese race, John Adams even talked about an American race (and he didn't mean the Indians).

Now most people think of "Hispanic" or "Latino" is a race, although the US Census bureau absolutely does not. Other people will say "Latinx" is a race while yet others will say Latinx isn't even a word. Digging down into any of these vague, indistinct, and emotionally charged topics is never going to produce light, only heat.

She's at least not one of those holocaust deniers, but her word choice is still walking around in their neighborhood. If you're a celebrity, you can't discuss this topic without leaving yourself open to misunderstanding and even deliberate misinterpretation.

The only prudent thing to do in a socio-political context like today is shut up and stick to banalities like "the holocaust was wrong and bad" and "puppy doggos are cute."

[old as dirt]

33. Shortly after my wife first filled out her census...

...identifying as both "Hispanic" and "Black", I started reading articles online claiming that she was going to replace herself.

Now most people think of "Hispanic" or "Latino" is a race, although the US Census bureau absolutely does not.

[Bucky]

34. Ha!

[LuckyCharms]

38. Why is Whoopi Goldberg expounding on this issue?

What is her goal, and why is talking about this issue apparently important to her?

[Oneironaut]

40. Race doesn't actually exist until society makes it real.

The only thing that can make people defined by arbitrary features and genealogy a race is if enough people define them as a race.

[iemanja]

42. and they do

The tiki torch crowd was chanting "jews will not replace us" because they saw Jews as a racial/ethnic other. That race is culturally constructed doesn't make it any less real socially.

[Oneironaut]

45. Definitely! I would agree.

[Tarc]

43. Again, quite a white perspective there

to deny others their cultural and ethnic heritage.

[Oneironaut]

44. "Cultural and ethnic heritage" are complex, but, are loosely related to race.

“Race” when commonly referred to by Americans mostly refers to skin color only. It is sometimes broken down into ethnic groups, but, not often. Race is a social construct, and, technically didn’t exist until society made it up. Cultural heritage and ethnic heritage are based on history and family, and, are real.

You’re referring to something different than the concept of race (a concept which varies around the world and has changed over time), though. Yes, having a certain skin color has influenced their cultural and ethnic heritage due to racism, but, it isn’t a factor outside of our social constructs and human society.

If you ask people what it means to be “white,” you’re going to get a ton of different answers.