Trump's 2017 Forms 1116 are...interesting

[jmowreader]

Last edited Sun Jan 1, 2023, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Form 1116 is Foreign Tax Credit.

One, they state he did business in 21 foreign nations and Puerto Rico. Among them are the UK and Ireland.

According to these forms, Trump made no income in either jurisdiction.

His Balmenie, Scotland, course opened in 2012.
His Turnberry, Scotland, course opened in 2014.
His Doonbeg, Ireland, course opened in 2002.

Only two things come to mind: the guy who runs the Putt-Putt in Fayetteville, NC, is more successful in the golf business than Trump is, or these tax returns are Trucker Logbook-level works of fiction.

[D_Master81]

1. Yeah

So the 1116 is credits on taxes paid to other countries so he’s claiming that all those places made no money and had nothing to pay tax on. Unless there’s massive amounts of depreciation being taken I don’t know how that’s possible. Depreciation always makes real estate investment look less profitable than it really is. That and 1041 exchanges, but that’s really getting into the weeds of tax law.

[recovering_democrat]

5. Agreed

You are accurate

[Warpy]

10. His golf courses are not money makers

and might have operated at a loss, meaning they took in less money than was due on the loans he floated to create them. Chances are there is some accounting fuckery going on there, but Scotland and Ireland are going to have to poke into the books for that one.

I imagine he's padding the expenses for course grooming and maintenance, building upkeep, and the like. However, even without that, those courses have been money losers because better accommodations are to be had in the towns and rabid golfers who want to say "been there, played that" will stay there, pay the fees at the resort to play through, and save money.

He never bothered to scope out the competition because he thought no one could ever outcompete magnificent HIM.

So yeah, they're losing money, and it's not only on paper, although I'm sure the loss has been pumped up considerably.

[bucolic_frolic]

2. I thought they taught us in Entrepreneur 101

if you don't turn a profit within 5 years, the IRS considers it a tax scheme rather than a business.

Oh, wait. That's for actual businesses run by normal people. Sorry.

[LymphocyteLover]

13. interesting but makes sense

[onenote]

19. Such businesses may be classified by the IRS as a "hobby"

If that happens the business loss deductions are disallowed. But even a business that consistently fails to make a profit can establish that it is an actual business not a hobby under the IRS rules.

[Mr.Bill]

23. Otherwise, many Silicon Valley

businesses would be hobbies.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. It seems believable he had no net income from the Scottish courses

(a) his name on them has put some people off from using them
(b) he was (and is) running them more as a way to build houses on/next to them and sell them as good for golfers, so any profit the companies made from running as golf businesses could easily have gone into building costs.

[Mr.Bill]

24. Golf courses are generally money pits,

if you only have income from people playing golf alone. The money is in the peripheral business. The bar, restaurant, memberships, special events, etc.

[Irish_Dem]

4. Trump made the US military stay at Turnberry, and he still made no money?

US taxpayers were subsidizing this grift.

[Captain Zero]

6. Ding ding ding

We should check DOD records for their expenditures?!

[Irish_Dem]

8. Yes and how about an audit across the US government for payments to Trump?

We probably won't be surprised at the results.

[NullTuples]

7. 40 confirmed stays in 2019, at 5 to 40 people each time...possibly as many as 220 stays that year

Yet a month after it was reported on in 2020 the Air Force declared "no wrongdoing" had occurred. Of course no details were released, either...

[Irish_Dem]

9. And the stays were longer than a normal TDY layover.

And the military was lavished with VIP gifts too.

Of course the military is not going to cross the CIC.

[LymphocyteLover]

14. wasn't there a scandal about making the militry go out of its way to stay there?

Such a disgusting grifter.

[Irish_Dem]

15. Yes, USAF went out of their way to buy more expensive civilian fuel for their planes

in Scotland near the Trump Resort when they could have gone to Lakenheath AFB in England.
And stayed at regular military barracks or lower cost accommodations. With cheaper fuel.

[LymphocyteLover]

21. and I guess that just fell by the wayside in the deluge of scandals from his maladministration...

[Irish_Dem]

25. Yes. With each new crime, we would forget about the last one.

The continual crimes overwhelmed everyone.

[Evolve Dammit]

11. A multi-million/billionaire pays nothing in taxes?? Lock his ass up. If this is OK, we are toast. n/

[FakeNoose]

12. So the Chump Organization claims profits and losses on their companies

... however these are his tax forms for his personal income, not the business. I believe the profit & loss statements (which are held privately) would show whether the international resorts made money or paid taxes.

[jmowreader]

16. The Trump Organization is a flow-through entity

This means all its business activity is reported on Donald Trump's 1040.

[Emrys]

17. "Balmerie" in the OP should read "Balmenie"

I mention this in case anyone's using it as a search term in any documents or online.

As Muriel mentioned upthread, Trump made grand promises about investment when he was getting planning permission to build the course on protected coastal land near Aberdeen, and it's no surprise that he hasn't lived up to them. Once granted permission, he downscaled the promises on the grounds that his businesses were being badly affected by the aftermath of the 2007-2008 stock market crash.

The plans for Balmenie included extensive real estate developments. I have a pal who works in planning in the area, and he said some years ago that he couldn't see how Balmenie could be profitable without them. Scotland is arguably over-catered in terms of quality golf courses, and Trump's had problems competing. This hasn't been helped by the abysmal publicity resulting from his concerted bullying campaign of neighbours, along with the fact that the course's clubhouse, in its early years at least, was housed in a marquee.

At Turnberry, Trump also belatedly applied for planning permission for very extensive development of brownfield land around the course, which has so far been refused. Turnberry lost most of its cachet when Trump took over, and his comments about Islam and general public racism have put it out of the running for hosting international golf tournaments. I know about the link to USAF flights coming into nearby Prestwick, but I don't believe enough aircrew decided to stay at Turnberry to make a significant impact, there being plenty of alternatives, including the bright lights of Glasgow and Edinburgh only a couple of hours' travel away.

Doonbeg was a punt that didn't pay off, largely due to lack of due diligence by Trump and his organization. Among other factors, the coast the course is on is badly affected by storm erosion and is a candidate for more serious consequences as a result of sea level rise. He reportedly lost interest in the course since it proved hard to run at a profit and he alienated the local community once people realized there would be no continuing great jobs bonanza stemming from his activities beyond the 300 or so directly employed there in an area with very few job opportunities. The local authorities' refusal to let Trump build two sea walls to protect seaward parts of the course from erosion was likely the final straw. Trump had tried to hold the council and local community to ransom, warning that his proposed multi-million-dollar investment in real estate in the area and the resulting jobs would be jeopardized if planning permission was refused.

On his golf courses in the British Isles at least, I see no reason to think his tax returns don't reflect the situation more or less accurately.

[jmowreader]

20. Thanks, fixed.

[Genki Hikari]

18. I don't doubt that all of them lost money

This is how stupid this scumbag is:

He floats loans (or gets his vig from Putin) to pay for a property and develop it.

Once the place opens and generates revenue, he sees the revenue as pure profit and pockets as much of it as he can get his greedy tiny fingers on, without regard for those loans or the costs that went into making that money. Contractors, wages, food, electricity, linens--he'll only pay out the bare minimum to stay open that he can get away with, on any of it.

But try to tell him that the money coming in isn't all for him, and he'll pitch a hissy fit that would make a two year old blush.

[LessAspin]

22. Trump Launders Money through Scottish Golf Properties

This is from a year ago...

Link to tweet

NEW: Trump has dumped $289M in cash into his Scottish golf courses and never made a profit.

Today, the Scottish parliament will debate whether to recommend an “Unexplained Wealth Order” to investigate those purchases.

Eric Trump claims they shouldn't be investigating this while we're in the middle of a global pandemic..

Maybe a better argument by Eric would be that Trump Inc. is a money laundering operation. So why single out a few golf courses in Scotland?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/120483047