I Idled in an Electric Car for 12 Hours in the Freezing Cold

[edhopper]

Do you know people who claim EVs are death traps in blizzards like the one that hit last week? Well maybe its more BS to stop the move from fossil fuels?

Read:
https://www.insidehook.com/article/vehicles/electric-car-12-hours-freezing-cold-test?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=keywee&kwp_0=2224139&kwp_4=6328932&kwp_1=2720176&fbclid=IwAR2AGWYVOYd03-F8Og5AfvUWUiM3N5A7KWaJIdgiUY0Nzd-ewwkyqb0VGSg


The upshot, after 12 hours battery was still had 75% of it's charge.

[DBoon]

1. and no carbon monoxide was generated

you lived to tell about it

[mobeau69]

11. Only if charging electricity wasn't from a coal fired generator.

[DBoon]

13. as long as the coal fired generator is not in his breathing space

CO poisoning would not be a problem for the driver of the EV

Never run an internal combustion engine car in an enclosed place. The fumes can kill you

[mobeau69]

17. My bad. I was thinking in terms of the total environment.

[tinrobot]

20. Even then, an EV charged with a coal plant is still more efficient than a gas car.

Plus, the coal plant has things like scrubbers to remove at least some of the pollution.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. While True...

...it doesn't scrub CO2.
Scrubbers work a couple ways:
The cheapest & most common is a falling liquid/rising gas device where an alkaline solution neutralizes the sulfur, phosphorus & nitro compounds into fairly innocuous salts. (Nitrates, phosphates & sulfates)
Another more efficient, but more expensive to install, is an oxidizing system that converts carbon monoxide to dioxide, the sulfur compounds (typically sulfur dioxide) to the trioxide which is water absorbed to form sulfuric acid (which has industrial uses). These are typically followed by the water scrubber above.
There are ways to sequester carbon dioxide but it's very costly & the efficiency is modest at best. Not many coal plants are doing this. It's a bit more suited to natural gas plants where the combustion effluent is much cleaner.

[CentralMass]

32. Do you know that the elctricity was from a coal fired plant ? In any event the carbon foot print of

the EV is still less then that of an ICE vehicle. Buring a gallon of gas creates about 20lbs of C02.

[mobeau69]

38. True. Still, nuclear generation is the way of the future.

Happy New Year!

[CentralMass]

39. I don't see how we can replace fossil fuels without it.

[edhopper]

43. with 20,000 sqaure miles of solar panels

[electric_blue68]

2. Wow, thank goodness!

[Sogo]

3. I'll tell you what the EV manufacturers must get fixed:

How towing wears down the battery in no time.

People in rural areas, especially, use their trucks on a daily basis for hauling and towing.

[edhopper]

10. I am sure they are

working on it.

[Sogo]

16. They better be, or the Rs will find a way to blame it on the Ds,

and we can kiss any possibility of the rural vote goodbye!

[moniss]

23. People need to understand

some things on this subject regardless of where they live. First of all any vehicle used for towing will have decreased mileage performance no matter the means of propulsion. Having said that it is also incumbent upon people to know how to tow in the most efficient manner no matter the means of propulsion. After many decades of observing people tow/haul with their vehicles and seeing people doing it improperly it is not just a matter of efficiency but also of safety.

There are numbers that are critical to know that most of these people/average person don't know or couldn't tell anybody as they're towing a trailer down the road. The first numbers are for the unit doing the towing. What is the empty weight of the vehicle? What is the load rating for the tires and what is the speed rating at that load? What is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating? That last number also takes suspension/braking specs into account. For the towing unit you also need to know the Gross Combined Weight Rating which would take into account the towing unit and the trailer. You need to know the empty weight of the trailer, the weight capacity of the trailer and the weight/speed rating on the tires. You also need to know the axle weight ratings for the towing unit and the trailer. You will need to position the load to not exceed the axle weight ratings and tire ratings. Once you have these numbers you can calculate them together using the formulas readily available from manufacturers of both vehicles and trailers. Then you will know how much total weight you can actually haul.

That total weight is supposed to include all passengers so people who think that because they have a 10,000 pound rated trailer that means they can put that much weight on the trailer and pack four 250 pound buddies into a crew cab and head down the road they are wrong. You take the allowable load number and subtract the weight of all passengers and any other gear in the vehicle. Now your formula is telling you how much load can be put on the trailer.

Now if this is an open flat trailer hauling equipment etc. you need to position that equipment properly on the trailer so that you don't have too much weight on the hitch etc. If the trailer is enclosed then the same applies for hauling. These are just the basic steps to make sure you are within the the limits for the endeavor. I see people violate these basic things all the time and then wonder why they have problems.

From an efficiency standpoint you want to keep your speed down no matter the means of propulsion. Nobody should expect the same performance when towing compared to non-towing. Slowing down is also good for safety. But people seem to feel the need to be keeping up with traffic on the interstate as opposed to driving on non-interstate/non-minimum speed roads. I hear the whining all the time about how they don't want to do that because "it takes longer". Yes but it is up to you the operator to travel in a safe manner and if you have to hit the brakes hard at 70mph towing a trailer you can expect bad things can happen. When Bubba goes flying by me in his single rear wheel pickup doing 70mph with an excavator and bunch of equipment on a single axle trailer I know that he has no idea what he is doing. You see the ones like this along the road (or in the ditch) because a tire blew, a bearing overheated etc. or they simply lost control because they've loaded an excessive load and/or positioned it improperly. In other words just because your formula says you can load 10,000 pounds if you cannot position it properly on the trailer for safe operation then you should not load that much equipment etc. Remember that most basic pickup trucks/vehicles are not designed for every day heavy towing/hauling use. No matter the commercials you see on TV or brochures/pep talks at the dealer. Choose the right tool for the job. Most makers have truck models designed for fairly constant/daily towing/hauling.

Keep your load from being like a big square front going down the road if possible and combined with reduced speeds and more controlled acceleration you will have the best efficiency. But all of that doesn't matter if you don't do it safely and take the time to "know your numbers" because getting into an accident/having mechanical breakdowns because you overloaded/loaded improperly/operated too fast etc. will make how much fuel/battery you used the least of your problems.

[burrowowl]

31. Good primer!

I took high school physics before I got my driver’s license necessity finally dictated getting it.

[tinrobot]

25. The vast majority of vehicles on the road today don't tow.

Most of those could easily be replaced with electric over the next decade.

Towing is a much more demanding use case. Those vehicles will probably be some of the last to completely electrify.

[ecstatic]

4. I was presented with a horror story earlier today

from Yahoo News:

A brother and sister say they had to stop 6 times in one day to charge their rented Tesla in cold weather after the battery drained quickly

They say they knew the electric car would need charging en route — and expected it to take longer after the weather turned so cold in late December — but what the siblings didn't expect was just how often they'd need to plug it in.

Xaviar Steavenson told Insider it got to the point that the "battery would drain faster than it would charge."

When they set off, Steavenson said, they could drive for at least 2 ½ hours before needing to charge the Tesla. "We ended up having to stop every one to 1 ½ hours to charge for an hour, then an hour and a half, then two hours," he said.

https://news.yahoo.com/brother-sister-had-stop-6-090000489.html?guccounter=1

I think the article was suggested to me because I googled Teslas after learning about their cool camera system. lol.

[dem4decades]

5. Their battery and our bathroom breaks would work out perfectly.

[ecstatic]

27. lol! But an hour though? That's too much! NT

[edhopper]

7. Wouldn't this type of thing be more widely reported

If it was a common problem with EVs. Maybe they had a bag rental.

[LiberalFighter]

47. Probably a Tesla issue.

[dweller]

6. It's seems like that could easily be proven

in test labs … so it wouldn’t be in question ?

By the way, how does an EV generate heat for the heater ? I know ICE just routes it from the engine heat via coolant liquid through heater core …
But I’m pretty ignorant about EVs


✌🏻

[edhopper]

8. I don't know

electric heaters?

[dweller]

14. Son of a gun ... a heat pump

How does the heater work in EV cars?
The heat pump takes thermal energy from the outside air and compresses it before releasing the heat inside. A super efficient heat pump can generate over 4kW or thermal energy for every 1kW of electrical energy used.Mar 14, 2022


✌🏻

[NutmegYankee]

22. Probably just resistive heating.

Dump electricity into a high resistance wire and blow air over it as it gets hot. Like an electric stove or this:

[VMA131Marine]

29. Unlikely, a heat pump has a COP of 1

Basically that means you get the same amount of heat out as electrical energy you put in. Most of the time a heat pump is going to give 2 or three times as much heat output as electrical energy in.

[NutmegYankee]

46. Only the Tesla Y has a heat pump.

Other models don't have it.

[Ninga]

9. Yep, true. Have a Tesla. Lost home power for 11 hrs.

Went into garage, put Tesla in Camp Mode, and heated seats. Charged my phone too. Slept cozy and toasty. Starting charge was 84% percent. After 11 hrs, charge was at 77% of 351 mile range.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. I've got a question or three!

1st, how old it is and what model?

Do you live in a cold climate? Have you noticed anything like what is described in post #4 above?

Does it take an exceptionally long time to charge at a supercharger when it is cold out?

And lastly, are you happy with the build quality and fit and finish? Are there any rattles? Does everything still work OK?

[Ninga]

24. 2021 Tesla X

Live in NE Ohio.
Efficiency below 40 deg suffers.
Drove it in 26 deg weather round trip from
Cleveland to Columbus Oh and had to stop once for a 20 minute supercharge arriving home with 12%.
I charge every night at home for 11 cents a kilowatt. In above 40 deg weather I get 4.5 miles per kilowatt.
Fit and finish fine. No rattles. Pesky wind noise on highway from drivers window yet to be resolved. The falcon doors needed 2 service calls in the first months, but work just fine.
Absolutely love the drive. Still great at 2 yr mark.
It was a learning curve, but hey, I was 77 when we got it. No regrets.
Drove it to Fla last winter. With iCE car get to first stop in 10 hrs, with Tesla 11 hrs. Well worth the added hr due to cold weather stops.
Many Teslas well over 100,000 miles and still running well.

[Ninga]

28. Also, Tesla prepares the battery for Supercharging so

It does not take more time in cold weather to Supercharge.

[A HERETIC I AM]

30. Cool. Thanks.

Stay safe.

[Better Days Ahoy]

15. Glad you are OK and we're protected in that car

[Maraya1969]

18. Some great thing I learned about using my hybrid when my electricity turns off after

a hurricane. So far it has happened twice and I have used my car to stay cool. It is great even with the hybrid because when you are idling you are on battery power. Only after an hour or more, (I can't remember exactly but it was a long time) the gas turns on and charges up the battery for about 15 minutes and you are on just battery again.

I think cars like this could help people who are homeless because it just makes things comfortable when you need it. It is very hard to get a hotel room after one of these hurricanes - most people reserve them way in advanced. If some special items, like a small fridge were placed in the car it would be great.

[dchill]

19. What qualifies as idling in an EV?

[caraher]

21. The vehicle is powered on

Mainly there's some heat and other incidental use of electricity. The guy doing the test also drove it slowly from time to time to simulate traffic creeping forward.

He characterized that as "idling" mainly because he wanted to write something folks who don't have an EV could relate to.

[MissB]

26. When it was freezing here right before Christmas, I saw a message on my dash

My car is usually parked in my garage which is also the basement. We have a heat vent down there so it generally stays within a couple of degrees of the house temp.

I'd gone over to my sibling's house for a few hours, with my car sitting outside in 25 degree weather. When I got in my car to leave, I saw a message that basically said due to the temperature of the battery, the range and acceleration may be limited.

I'd usually not see that - it doesn't get that cold here often, and my car doesn't sit out in the cold usually. But it's definitely a drawback.

(I have a Volvo EV)

[CentralMass]

33. I've noticed an uptick in anti-EV articls and activiity on social media. Is the Oil industry

starting to get worried about EV sales gaining momentum ?

[Mopar151]

34. All part of the Joe Biden Conspiracy!

Like Joe can dial the price of fuel up or down any old time.... "They're pushing electric cars because they hate oil!" Only makes sense if you don't think at all...

[llmart]

35. I'll have to rewatch the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?"

[True Dough]

36. Turns out Tesla has been withholding key details on the driving range of their vehicles

-South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures.

-The driving range of the U.S. EV manufacturer’s cars plunge in cold weather by up to 50.5% versus how they are advertised online, the KFTC said in a statement on Tuesday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/03/south-korea-fines-tesla-for-allegedly-exaggerating-driving-range-of-evs.html

EDIT to add that a $2.2 million fine against Tesla is a joke!

[ananda]

37. I did the same in my old Civic hybrid

during the Texas deep freeze.

The battery charged on idle.

[mobeau69]

40. Question for EV owners. Is there a meter showing the KH used for a charge so if you charge at, say

for example, at an inlaw’s house, you can reimburse them?

[Vinca]

41. I have a question that same EV owner might be able to answer. If you're out and about

and you need to charge it at one of the little stations, how much does it cost?

[Ninga]

45. Cost is variable per location, some are variable for time of day. I've paid anywhere from 18 cents

to 30 cents per kilowatt. Some stand alone stations located in municipalities, or libraries or civic centers have free, trickle charging.

[Vinca]

49. Thanks.

[Ninga]

44. I only know about Tesla. Our Tesla has a charging screen that provides such data for each

charging event. Also, charging data is followed by my Tesla app.
For residential sources, would need to know the cost per kilowatt, enter into app to get the amount due.

[mobeau69]

48. Thanks.