Overheard a Republican in my local Subway today

[ClimateHawk]

He complained about how much the holidays costed him this year and said “As a country I don’t know what we’re going to do.” He blamed President Biden and said he hopes no one votes for him. The lady working working the store agreed and said “We can fix it by getting a new president”. How can people be so damn ignorant? I live in Randolph County, North Carolina and I swear it’s like people here live in la la land. I guess it’s like that in most rural areas though.

[samnsara]

1. the only watch newsmax..

its like Platos cave analogy....

[Permanut]

6. Great analogy.

[TeamProg]

33. For many it's willful ignorance, not a forced existence, like Playo's cave.. n/t

[GenXer47]

2. may his bread be stale

and his lettuce e-colish.

[RussellCattle]

32. "E-colish?" Well done. Not many folks can claim to have created a new adjective. Kudos.

[LakeArenal]

3. Purposely ignorant.

[Kennah]

4. I live in suburban bright blue Olympia, WA and I hear the same shit

[Claustrum]

5. Because Fox Noise and the right wing media creates la la land.

If they or anyone in their immediate circle listen or watch any of those, that's all they hear about. It's the democrats' fault no matter what. And enough people around you talk and believe in that, you eventually believe it too unless you have other fact based source to counter that propaganda, which most people don't.

[ClimateHawk]

13. What scares me most

Is how these people speak all this BS with such confidence. I know what they say is nonsense it’s their confidence that worries me.

[Claustrum]

14. Watch any of the interviews of MAGA crazies going to TFG rallies.

Many interviewers would ask them to flesh out their crazy ideas and conspiracy theories. And then they would rebut it right then and there. They will then change the subject and say that they will still say their rebutted idea with confidence. There is no way you can change their minds.

I have no idea how we get back from this. It's no longer an exchange of idea and debate about different points of view because there is no changing of minds (unless you are the one changing) no matter how much evidence and facts you put in front of their faces.

[CaptainTruth]

18. As Dunning-Kruger says, they're on the peak of "Mount Stupid"

Far too many people climb that mountain & stay there because they find being uninformed & over-confident is comfortable for them.

]

[peppertree]

19. Most of the ones I know have proudly staked their flag on Mount Stupid - and will NOT come down

"The view from here's amazing!"

[Genki Hikari]

56. Stupid people think they're smart

That's why they have so much bravado.

When they go up against someone who isn't a total moron, they fold like a house of cards. Then they get mad at being humiliated for being the braindead scum that they are.

[Deep State Witch]

7. Here's A Thought

Spend less. Buy local. Oh, and the inflation you're complaining about - blame China and Russia, not Biden.

[Caliman73]

8. The only thing that truly combats ignorance is exposure.

One of the reasons that people in rural areas (and I do not hold these beliefs necessarily) are considered "ignorant" is because they are typically not exposed to a diversity of views, of people, or of situations. Exposure in smaller and rural areas, or areas in suburbs that are segregated by choice or economic conditions can also face similar obstacles. There are limited amounts of radio and television services that would offer a broad range of view points. Communities are typically small and cohesive in thought and attitude, and simply, people often self select around whom they want to associate.

When those factors exist and there are social pressure to maintain those type of "small" communities, you are going to find very rigid ideas and not a lot of debate or discussion.

[Sky Jewels]

12. And also the people who hold progressive views (and seek higher education)

tend to move to more urban areas, where they feel more comfortable and have more opportunities, leaving people the rural areas in an ever more conservative and religious self-enforcing right-wing brainwashing bubble.

[Trust_Reality]

38. "conservative and religious self-enforcing right-wing brainwashing bubble"

That is what most religions are.

People who function this way seem to employ the same thought paradigm in many aspects of life, especially politics.

[Sky Jewels]

44. Totally agree.

It's easier to just turn off your brain and believe that Sky Daddy and Reagan Daddy and Trump Daddy know what's best.

[Kaleva]

30. Then why are most Trump voters in MI from urban or mostly urban counties?

Just as many people in Wayne County (metro Detroit) voted for Trump as did in all the counties in Upper Michigan and most of the counties in the northern half of Lower Michigan combined.

75% of the vote Trump got in MI in 2020 came from voters who live in counties classified by the Census Bureau has being urban or mostly urban.

[DBoon]

48. Because there is a very important difference between absolute numbers and percentages

Since many more people live in urban areas, you would expect more people of all kinds to be represented in urban areas, even if their proportion is small.

[Kaleva]

50. Trump won some of the urban counties in Michigan

[Genki Hikari]

57. Define "urban."

There are only 2 localities in Michigan that qualify as urban: Detroit and Grand Rapids.

Detroit metro counties went D, for the most part. In order of population size, largest to smallest:

The majority of Wayne County voted D.
The majority of Oakland County voted D.
The majority of Macomb County voted D.
The majority of Washtenaw County voted D.
The majority of Livingston County voted D.
The majority of St. Clair County voted R. They are 160K of the 4.36 million people in Metro Detroit.
The majority of Monroe County, 150K, voted R.
The majority of LaPeer County, 88K voted R.

So of 4.36 million people in the Detroit Metro area, three counties that don't even rate 10% of the metro population voted R. That's hardly "major urban counties" voting R. That's a punch of podunk barely-urbans doing it.

Do you want me to run the numbers for GR, too? Because it won't look any better.

Outside of those two locations, Michigan has a bunch of mid-size cities and small towns and some rural areas. Some went D, some went R. But urban, they are not.

So, no, IQ 4.5 didn't win urban counties. He won rural areas, small towns, and some mid-towns and ex-urbs. That's it.

[Kaleva]

58. Trump won Macomb County 263,863 votes to Biden's 223,952

By urban, I've said before in numerous posts about this that I'm using the Census Bureau's definition of urban and mostly urban counties.

In the 2020 election, 75% of the vote Trump got in Michigan came from those counties and just 25% came from counties classified by the Census Bureau as rural or mostly rural .

[gratuitous]

9. Yeah, it's terrible how much prices have gone up

Although prices have gone up less in the United States than practically any other country (for some reason). And wouldja look at that! Oil companies are posting eight- and nine-figure quarterly profits again this year. But yeah, President Biden's fault. For sure. Because the cost of fueling our transportation and shipping doesn't affect the retail price of things at all. Certainly nothing like the impact that raising the hourly wage of the Sandwich Artist to $15 has on the price of your foot-long club sandwich.

[betsuni]

49. Prices have gone up where I live (not U.S.) quite noticeably lately and some things unavailable.

Price of electricity reduces after five o'clock, I don't use lights or cook until then, and candles until electric lights necessary.

Unheated house, only small space heaters -- think about calories I'm burning trying to keep warm, can eat more! It was really cold this morning so went back to bed to read and nap because it's warm under lots of blankets and quilt (like peasants, and settlers on the American prairies during blizzards).

Our small rural city started a coupon program, you pay a certain amount and receive coupons worth twice as much, mainly used in supermarkets. Very popular, people really shopped hard! Husband is planning a bigger garden this year.

[ThoughtCriminal]

10. I do not think a significant number of these voters can be flipped

Better to focus on the large population of non-voters.

[Ziggysmom]

11. Yes 🙂. And young people! They are more likely to question what they hear and seek the truth.

[markodochartaigh]

20. One of the few silver linings that I see

on the very dark clouds that surround us, is that one third of the voters don't vote. If Democrats could educate a large enough slice of that group I think that in much of the country it could tilt the scales. But education is key. If the Republicans get rid of Social Security and Medicare and most of the old people have to sell their houses to pay for living expenses and health care and the economy goes into a tailspin, if the Republicans can successfully blame it on the Democrats even that huge problem would not be enough to mobilize the middle in a productive way.

[The Wizard]

22. Hillary Clinton told

coal miners they would get retrained for other jobs. They voted for Trump because he said he'd bring back coal mining. He lied. Sometimes the cold hard truth is hard to digest.

[NickB79]

15. And by "get a new President"

Don't assume they mean through the democratic, voting process, if you get my drift.

Remember, this is the "2nd Amendment Solutions" crowd, after all.

[Rebl2]

17. Right

[calimary]

25. With this bunch it's always smart to expect the worst.

If the worst happens, then you're braced for it already and MAYBE already thought of something you could do to blunt the negative effects.

If the worst DOES NOT happen, or fails to materialize, it's ALWAYS good to be prepared anyway. Takes the stress level down. And you still look smart for not taking chances - for being proactive rather than passive, and avoiding becoming a victim.

[Rebl2]

16. Well it's like

you said they live in la la land.

[myohmy2]

21. in...

...the MAGAt-world black is white and white is black just like the Z's in putin-world...

...it's the world-wide Fascist Phenomena...

...people have had it so easy for so long they now feel the need to suffer...

...you can only do so much...

[Maru Kitteh]

23. Does the dumb wench think that a "new president" will buy her Christmas gifts for her?

Does he think a new president will stop his stupid ass from spending more money than he can afford?


I don't miss that part of North Carolina much.

[crud]

24. Make something up...

Didn't you know that Biden saved subway from going under? Can you imagine if there were no more meatball sandwiches?

[jerseyjim]

26. Here too...

I live in NJ and my sis in law blames everything on Biden -- crime, economy, Illegals, fentanyl. The democrats are ruining this country, she posts on her FB status. She refuses to get COVID boosters, because she has enough "immunities." Crime in NYC is out of control because of democratic policies, she says. Like others, she watches only Fux News. She is bothered by the fact that I refuse to allow her to visit us until, unless she gets her boosters. She thinks liberals are elites. Her husband (my brother) died suddenly some months after COVID, but finding her dead husband lying on has back staring at the ceiling is not enough to convince her about the importance of masks and vaccines.

My (other) brother, now in MO, thinks that Fux News is the "truth". All other stations are the "radical left." (I told him to watch PBS News Hour if he wants real "balance". He blames immigrants for the rapid spread of COVID. He hopes that California has an earthquake and falls off into the Pacific ocean. He thinks the blue states have had more COVID cases than red states and more deaths. There are some very impressive graphs the show the opposite.

[Skittles]

29. I am so sorry jerseyjim

I think it is possible to always love someone, but it is impossible to always like them........my sympathy to you.

[NowISeetheLight]

37. Education

Tell your other brother from Missouri that California is the worlds FOURTH largest economy. Then ask him if Missouri is so great why are they taking $1.45 in federal money for every $1 they pay in? They’re a ‘taker’ state. California is a ‘giver’. They paid $6.6b more in federal taxes in 2020 than they got back in federal money. Ask him why 8 of the 10 biggest ‘takers’ are RED while 8 if the 10 biggest ‘givers’ are BLUE. Sounds like the red state economies are a lot worse off than the blue.

[bringthePaine]

27. self-defining irrevocable rule: precisely half of any lump of mess IS BELOW AVERAGE

[Kaleva]

28. The great majority of Trump voters in MI lived in urban to mostly urban counties

In 2020, Trump got 75% of his vote in MI from voters who live in counties classified as urban or mostly urban by the Census Bureau.

Trump got as many votes in Wayne County (metro Detroit) as he did in all of the 15 counties of Upper Michigan and most of the counties in northern Lower Michigan combined.

[Beautiful Disaster]

36. That's such a disingenuous stat, tho.

Of course Trump is going to get more votes in counties where more people live. It's just math.

But Trump won only 30% of the vote in Wayne County. His lack of traction in urban/suburban counties is a big reason he lost Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin in 2020.

Trump only got as many of those votes because that's where the people live. But they're a very small minority in a lot of these areas.

Whereas in the smaller rural counties, like the county the OP lives in, Trump gets close to 80% of the overall vote. Small in numbers but those margins are the only reason he and the Republicans are ever competitive in statewide races in these states. Because you're not winning Michigan by pulling in only 30% of the vote in Wayne County unless there's some vote splitting (Trump did marginally better in Wayne in 2020 compared to 2016 - but so did Biden vs Hillary, which helped, as Biden won 68% of the vote to Hillary's 66% - while Trump only saw a one-point increase, which was a net decrease overall for him compared to 2016).

[Kaleva]

45. Trump would be a complete non factor in MI

If he got a majority of his votes from the rural or mostly rural areas of the state. While many of the counties in Michigan are rural or mostly rural, the total population of these counties makes up just a small percentage of the total population of the state

People talk about how rural folks are isolated and only get their news from Fox or RW radio but that doesn't explain why the many times more people in urban areas voted for Trump.

[Beautiful Disaster]

46. The rural folks are the only reason the GOP is even competitive in these states.

This isn't really hard to understand. Sure, there are Trump voters that exist in urban areas but they're a very small minority. Trump won 5% of the vote in Detroit.

That still netted him nearly 300,000 votes but it's such a paltry amount overall compared to the amount who voted that they don't make a dent in Detroit politics.

There's hardly any Trump support in urban America. The more you move out of urban America and into the suburbs/exurbs and then the rural areas, his support grows significantly. But at the end of the day, rural voters overwhelmingly support Trump. Like, to extreme numbers. That's not up for debate.

People talk about rural folks because they overwhelmingly support Trump - to the tune of 70-90%. His pulling in five-percent in Detroit is irrelevant. Absolutely irrelevant.

[Kaleva]

47. It's the urban folks who make Trump competitive in these states

Your comment:

"But at the end of the day, rural voters overwhelmingly support Trump. Like, to extreme numbers. That's not up for debate."

Extreme numbers? Not that many people live in the rural areas. That's why they are rural . Trump got about as many votes in the most populated county in Michigan, Wayne County, as he did in most of the northern 2/3s of the state. Also Trump won urban Macomb County, just north of Detroit, getting over a quarter of a million votes there. Not all urban or mostly urban counties were won by Biden. Just some of them were. Biden won Genesee County (Flint) by just 20,000 votes.

[Beautiful Disaster]

59. Trump won only 5% of the vote in Detroit.

The only reason Michigan was close is because in rural counties, he was winning 70-80% of the vote.

It's like that in other states, as well.

In fact, the only reason states like Illinois are Democratic is because Trump and Republicans are so anemic in urban counties that he loses badly.

This is fact. You can try to pin it on urban voters - but they're not the problem. It's clearly rural communities that are giving Republicans a fighting chance in a lot of these states.

Because guess what, bud? Trump ain't winning dick with 5% support in Detroit. Or 18% in Philadelphia.

He's winning places like Pennsylvania because (as he did in 2016) he's winning rural counties with 60-80% of the vote. That's just a fact.

[Kaleva]

60. Where did the majority of Trump's votes come from?

The urban and mostly urban counties or the rural and mostly rural counties?

If Trump would have lost urban Macomb County, where he got over 260,000 votes, he would have lost the state badly. There simply aren't enough voters in the rural counties to make up for such a loss

That's the only reason he was competitive in states like Michigan.

[Beautiful Disaster]

61. Trump in 2020 did as well in the Detroit region as Romney.

Maybe just a smidgen better and yet lost Michigan by much less than Romney. Why do you think that is? Here's a hint: Romney didn't do nearly as well in rural counties as Trump.

Places like Monroe County,which is considered mostly rural.

In 2012, Obama won Monroe County 50-49. In 2020, Trump won it 60-38.

In 2016, he won it 58-36.

In a four year span, the Democrats lost 14 points off their 2012 total and the Republicans gained nine points for a swing of 23 points.

There's dozens of examples like this throughout Michigan and Pennsylvania. Counties Obama either won very narrowly or lost very narrowly, rural counties outside the major metros, that Hillary and Biden lost by massive margins.

In fact, in Washtenaw, home to Ann Arbor, Biden actually did better than Obama in 2012. He won that county 72-26. In 2012, Obama won it over Romney 67-31.

Despite that, Obama did nearly seven points better than Biden statewide. Why? Because again, Trump decimated Biden in all those rural counties.

That's what cost Hillary the state in 2016 (she too did better than Obama in Washtenaw). Trump doesn't win Michigan in 2016 and it's not close in 2020 if he pulls in rural numbers like Romney did in 2012. That's a reality. Trump's rural support is what made all the difference, not his urban support or Republicans would be winning these states in other elections and that's just not happening.

So, yes, it's a rural issue.

[Kaleva]

62. Look at the numbers and not the percentages

Trump got about as many votes in Wayne County as he did in much , if not all, of the northern 2/3 of the state. Same with neighboring Macomb County, which Trump won easily, gaining over 260, 000 votes there. Compare that to rural Alger County where Trump got a little over 3000 votes and Biden got a little over 2000 votes.

Total the votes Trump got from the rural or mostly rural counties and compare that to the total votes he got from the urban or mostly urban counties. I did that earlier and found that 25% of Trump's vote came from the rural or mostly rural counties.

The problem clearly lies with urban voters.

For an interesting exercise, do the same thing I did and see if you come up with similiar results.

[Beautiful Disaster]

63. Na'.

I'll look at the percentages because they tell the true story. Overall numbers mean little when you're talking massively large areas with huge populations.

That's like saying Los Angeles is more conservative than Wyoming because Trump won one million votes in LA County compared to the 193,559 he won in Wyoming - despite losing LA County 71-27.

[Kaleva]

64. It's overall numbers that decide elections in the states

And looking at the numbers, it's very clear that the great majority of Trump voters live in the urban or mostly urban counties. At least in Michigan.

If you want to stick to percentages, figure out how many votes Trump would have gotten in Michigan if a majority of his vote came from rural or mostly rural counties.

[Beautiful Disaster]

65. Trump would not have won Michigan in 2016 if he had similar rural numbers as Romney did in 2012.

This really isn't up for debate. The only reason Republicans are viable in these states is because they get overwhelming numbers in rural areas - so overwhelming that it makes up for the blowouts in urban areas. And if they don't get those numbers, they can't win. See: Gretchen Whitmer and her blowout election win in November.

If you removed rural voters from the equation, Trump and Republicans would have a very difficult time winning elections. This is not debatable. There is literally no argument you're making that changes this. Because of that, yes - it's a rural problem. None of what you say is going to change that.

Trump would not win Michigan, or even be competitive in Michigan, if only the urban counties were allowed to vote - and because of that, your illogical argument that this is an urban problem doesn't wash. It's a fact. That's all I am going to say on this matter because I am spinning the wheels here. Trump and Republicans could not win, or have a prayer, if there was no rural votes. You can't say otherwise, therefore it is a rural problem. Point made. Have a good one.

[GarColga]

31. People like that are tribe-seekers

They really don't know enough about what is happening to have an informed opinion, but say this kind of stuff because they think that's what the "cool kids" would say.

[Beautiful Disaster]

34. Trump won Randolph County with 78% of the vote in 2020.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if they weren't blaming Biden.

[IronLionZion]

35. Because Biden likes high prices?

I suppose Biden let in foreigners to steal our jobs causing a labor shortage too.

I'd love to hear what exactly Biden did to cause high prices. Whenever I ask them, they spew some nonsense about oil pipelines and sending our tax dollars to Ukraine.

[NowISeetheLight]

39. I see this

In one of the veteran Facebook groups I’m in. Someone posted about the 8.7% increase COLA to VA disability. Someone jumped in to thank Biden for the lousy economy, gas prices, supply chain, crime, open borders, blah blah blah. I threw a couple facts his way about the global economy and how things work and boy did he get defensive. But a few other posters jumped in and supported me. Facts don’t matter to most if the cultists as they’ve been brainwashed. But others may be enlightened.

[IronLionZion]

42. The economy is lousy?

with 10.5 million jobs and labor shortage, hmmm...

I doubt they even know what supply chain means since most of their purchases are made in China. As those prices are higher, buying American becomes more attractive.

[questionseverything]

40. A new president would help if it was Putin being replaced

[maxsolomon]

41. Neither of those 2 has any idea how things actually work.

They couldn't even answer 1 question about inflation.

As a country, we've been through MUCH worse, including much worse inflation. We're going to do what every nation on the planet does, not just special-snowflake Amurka: we're going to muddle through.

[redstateblues]

43. Say "Biden sure is getting those gas prices down"

Makes ‘‘em sputter

[Pugee]

51. Unfortunately

Its the same here in Randolph County, Missouri. Its scary to even be out sometimes. There is a house 2 doors down at the entrance to the park with Trump 2024 signs, a huge wooden sign all the way up a tree, and banners all over their yard and they have been all year. I hate driving by it.

[Boomerproud]

52. Just me but I would've walked out.

nt

[ClimateHawk]

54. I did

Grabbed my food and took off. Lol

[Emile]

53. I would have asked which is it, Biden is a socialist or is he a Predatory Capitalist?