General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI must ask this, even if it reveals a lot of ignorance on my part.
I happen to be a Caucasian female. Whenever I'm reading fiction, I will always picture characters as being white, unless there's a description that makes it clear the person is non white.
I need to ask you who are not white, what do you picture? Do you default to your own race/ethnicity/subgroup? I have thought about this for years, but never felt comfortable asking any of my (far too few and far between) African American friends this question. The anonymity we have here emboldens me.
Thanking everyone in advance for the answers.
LoisB
(7,212 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,865 posts)But I might not always know the race/ethnicity of the author.
keithbvadu2
(36,835 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,865 posts)But about characters in fiction. Although I'm personally inclined to think Jesus is a fictional character.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)Jewish people can have a variety of complexions and hair/eye color. But some depictions of Jesus really seem to forget that he was Semitic.
keithbvadu2
(36,835 posts)Beatlelvr
(619 posts)Woody Allen without the glasses.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,372 posts)keithbvadu2
(36,835 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,372 posts)An AR-15 and crossed bandoleers of ammo would make as much sense.
Nevilledog
(51,137 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,372 posts)Genki Hikari
(1,766 posts)The Romans were there, and most of them didn't look Middle-Eastern. And you can bet that nobody picked on their kids. Furthermore, the Romans weren't the only non-Middle Easterners there at the time.
It's appalling that so many Americans are ignorant of the fact that populations of antiquity were quite mobile and migrating all over the place. Not to mention that many of them were in trade all across Europe and into China.
Good grief, almost 300 years before the Romans were in Jerusalem, Alexander the Great had been to the Punjab region of India--with a massive army behind him. And that army came back, too! Without him, sure, but they did go there and back, within a few short years.
We also know from the Edicts of Ashoka that Buddhists had made contact with leaders in the Seleucid Empire in at least the 3rd century BCE. The Seleucid Empire, for those who don't know, extended from modern day Kazakhstan to--oh, look: Jerusalem!
Those are but two examples of how mobile people were then. There were plenty of other cultures that were just as much on the move and mingling all over Europe and Asia--and many of them were in the Middle East.
That's why it makes zero sense to say that someone from the region absolutely had to have X physical features. Is it likely that a Jerusalem native would have classic "Middle Eastern" features? Sure, but it's not 100%, or even 70%, certain that someone from there would look like X. Because Jerusalem in the Classical era was not a monoculture when it came to anything, including physical traits.
Far from it.
Chalk up the European paintings feeding the Western idea of what the guy looked like not to cultural bigotry per se, but to how artists paint the features of the models they have available to them. They are also just as susceptible to their culture's beauty ideals as anyone else, and the physical ideal that most of these paintings derive from were from the Renaissance. That era's Brad Pitt was most likely Cesare Borgia. Gee, if the paintings of him are remotely accurate, who could blame people for basing a physical ideal off him? Just look at him!
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,372 posts)Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)I had a similar thought when I first read Breakfast of Champions with the characters Dwayne Hoover and Wayne Hoobler.
Dwayne is a successful white auto dealer, and Wayne is an African American ex-convict. Their names are practically identical, but the arc of their lives is determined by their race and social status.
"The motto of Dwayne Hoovers and Kilgore Trouts nation was this, which meant in a language nobody spoke anymore, Out of Many, One: E pluribus unum.
The undippable flag was a beauty, and the anthem and the vacant motto might not have mattered much, if it werent for this: a lot of citizens were so ignored and cheated and insulted that they thought they might be in the wrong country, or even on the wrong planet, that some terrible mistake had been made. It might have comforted them some if their anthem and their motto had mentioned fairness or brotherhood or hope or happiness, had somehow welcomed them to the society and its real estate."
cachukis
(2,247 posts)The characters are generally described accordingly. I prefer to digest the people based on their actions, but exotica allows me to suppose.
magicarpet
(14,157 posts).... but yes one's imagination seems to drift towards and in accordance with one's race - as applied to characters mentioned in a book you might be reading.. Which seems to be part of human nature - because you can more readily identify with someone who is not too different from yourself. Being able to switch places with that character and yourself - and derive a better understanding of what the writer hopes to convey.
Ethnicity not so much considering my heritage is rather odd and different from the norm - being that it is middle eastern. So unless the book is about that area - my mind's eye does not wander towards my ethnic classification.
Interesting to look at it from the perspective you mentioned.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,865 posts)Because I have a "normal" and "common" heritage (white American) you've given me something to think about.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,480 posts)I see characters in books as cat people.
I'm furry okay.
Grown2Hate
(2,013 posts)$1000, Alex. No judgement!
I'm personally bad at picturing people in books except for VERY vaguely. But most of my favorite books, I'd already seen some version of it (movie, TV show), so I have a sort of pre-conceived image usually.
That being said, for anyone familiar, the casting for The Expanse was one of the most brilliant casting jobs EVER. I can't imagine ANY actor portraying Jim, Amos, Chrisjen, Naomi, or Alex any better (or even competently). Amazing job.
Am I still making sense? Did I ever?... ::slowly backs away::
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,865 posts)I can't offer a comment or opinion.
But in terms of other things I've seen, sometimes the casting is wonderful, other times not so wonderful.
Yes, you make sense. You can back up now.
Marcuse
(7,493 posts)Grown2Hate
(2,013 posts)complexion, cultural foods, or garb (like in Chrisjen's case), but didn't really differentiate race, if that makes sense (like you referenced, short of the differences between Belter, Martian, and Earthers, but even that was more the body differences from living in uniquely different gravity wells).
The books are SO immersive and descriptive that's its unlike anything I've ever read. I'm at the tail end of the 9th (and final) book now. I don't want it to end!
Marcuse
(7,493 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,673 posts)If it isn't explicitly stated or strongly inferred in the opening passages, I kind of assume whiteness. But of course I'm a white male.
Tree Lady
(11,479 posts)I probably see them same as author or me. Most of the books I read they describe how the characters look.
Marcuse
(7,493 posts)Its like reading a transcript. Perhaps I lack imagination. Literally.
nightwing1240
(1,996 posts)Along with how a character may look, I often will imagine their voice as I read whatever it is they are saying. Imagination is a good thing when used properly.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Then that is how I envision the character, unless the author is explicit about the character's description.