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PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,865 posts)
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 08:28 PM Jan 2023

I must ask this, even if it reveals a lot of ignorance on my part.

I happen to be a Caucasian female. Whenever I'm reading fiction, I will always picture characters as being white, unless there's a description that makes it clear the person is non white.

I need to ask you who are not white, what do you picture? Do you default to your own race/ethnicity/subgroup? I have thought about this for years, but never felt comfortable asking any of my (far too few and far between) African American friends this question. The anonymity we have here emboldens me.



Thanking everyone in advance for the answers.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I must ask this, even if it reveals a lot of ignorance on my part. (Original Post) PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 2023 OP
Interesting question. I picture the characters as the race/ethnicity of the author. LoisB Jan 2023 #1
Good point. PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 2023 #3
What race/ethnicity was Jesus? It depends on whose wall his portrait hangs. keithbvadu2 Jan 2023 #2
I'm not talking about Jesus. PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 2023 #4
He was a Jew. milestogo Jan 2023 #5
Some super Christians are disappointed that Christ was a Jew. keithbvadu2 Jan 2023 #7
He probably looked like Beatlelvr Jan 2023 #10
Nah, he looked like Mandy Patinkin. milestogo Jan 2023 #21
Blasphemer! Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2023 #19
With his own AR-15 keithbvadu2 Jan 2023 #20
I remember seeing one of those pastel illustrations with him wearing a gold cross necklace. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2023 #22
... Nevilledog Jan 2023 #24
Cool. Don't Bogart. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2023 #27
This is profoundly ignorant of basic Classical history Genki Hikari Jan 2023 #29
Laughter is good for the soul. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2023 #30
Great question Effete Snob Jan 2023 #6
The setting often guides the picture in my head. cachukis Jan 2023 #8
Never thought of it this way,... magicarpet Jan 2023 #9
Thank you. PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 2023 #13
I'm weird I_UndergroundPanther Jan 2023 #11
Things I Did NOT Expect to See in this Thread for Grown2Hate Jan 2023 #14
Since I have not watched The Expanse, PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 2023 #16
Was the book race conscious (beyond Earthers, Martians and Belters)? I enjoyed the video series. Marcuse Jan 2023 #23
They would describe each character and their Grown2Hate Jan 2023 #25
Thanks. Marcuse Jan 2023 #28
I'm basically with you... Wounded Bear Jan 2023 #12
If the author isn't descriptive of the characters Tree Lady Jan 2023 #15
Good question. I don't consciously generate images to fill in the authors' deliberate blanks. Marcuse Jan 2023 #17
Great question nightwing1240 Jan 2023 #18
I always assume I am reading the author's "voice". MicaelS Jan 2023 #26

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,865 posts)
4. I'm not talking about Jesus.
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 08:40 PM
Jan 2023

But about characters in fiction. Although I'm personally inclined to think Jesus is a fictional character.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
5. He was a Jew.
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 08:41 PM
Jan 2023

Jewish people can have a variety of complexions and hair/eye color. But some depictions of Jesus really seem to forget that he was Semitic.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,372 posts)
22. I remember seeing one of those pastel illustrations with him wearing a gold cross necklace.
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 10:44 PM
Jan 2023

An AR-15 and crossed bandoleers of ammo would make as much sense.

 

Genki Hikari

(1,766 posts)
29. This is profoundly ignorant of basic Classical history
Sat Jan 7, 2023, 12:41 AM
Jan 2023

The Romans were there, and most of them didn't look Middle-Eastern. And you can bet that nobody picked on their kids. Furthermore, the Romans weren't the only non-Middle Easterners there at the time.

It's appalling that so many Americans are ignorant of the fact that populations of antiquity were quite mobile and migrating all over the place. Not to mention that many of them were in trade all across Europe and into China.

Good grief, almost 300 years before the Romans were in Jerusalem, Alexander the Great had been to the Punjab region of India--with a massive army behind him. And that army came back, too! Without him, sure, but they did go there and back, within a few short years.

We also know from the Edicts of Ashoka that Buddhists had made contact with leaders in the Seleucid Empire in at least the 3rd century BCE. The Seleucid Empire, for those who don't know, extended from modern day Kazakhstan to--oh, look: Jerusalem!

Those are but two examples of how mobile people were then. There were plenty of other cultures that were just as much on the move and mingling all over Europe and Asia--and many of them were in the Middle East.

That's why it makes zero sense to say that someone from the region absolutely had to have X physical features. Is it likely that a Jerusalem native would have classic "Middle Eastern" features? Sure, but it's not 100%, or even 70%, certain that someone from there would look like X. Because Jerusalem in the Classical era was not a monoculture when it came to anything, including physical traits.

Far from it.

Chalk up the European paintings feeding the Western idea of what the guy looked like not to cultural bigotry per se, but to how artists paint the features of the models they have available to them. They are also just as susceptible to their culture's beauty ideals as anyone else, and the physical ideal that most of these paintings derive from were from the Renaissance. That era's Brad Pitt was most likely Cesare Borgia. Gee, if the paintings of him are remotely accurate, who could blame people for basing a physical ideal off him? Just look at him!

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
6. Great question
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 08:47 PM
Jan 2023

I had a similar thought when I first read Breakfast of Champions with the characters Dwayne Hoover and Wayne Hoobler.

Dwayne is a successful white auto dealer, and Wayne is an African American ex-convict. Their names are practically identical, but the arc of their lives is determined by their race and social status.


"The motto of Dwayne Hoover’s and Kilgore Trout’s nation was this, which meant in a language nobody spoke anymore, Out of Many, One: “E pluribus unum.”

The undippable flag was a beauty, and the anthem and the vacant motto might not have mattered much, if it weren’t for this: a lot of citizens were so ignored and cheated and insulted that they thought they might be in the wrong country, or even on the wrong planet, that some terrible mistake had been made. It might have comforted them some if their anthem and their motto had mentioned fairness or brotherhood or hope or happiness, had somehow welcomed them to the society and its real estate."

cachukis

(2,247 posts)
8. The setting often guides the picture in my head.
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 08:53 PM
Jan 2023

The characters are generally described accordingly. I prefer to digest the people based on their actions, but exotica allows me to suppose.

magicarpet

(14,157 posts)
9. Never thought of it this way,...
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 09:00 PM
Jan 2023

.... but yes one's imagination seems to drift towards and in accordance with one's race - as applied to characters mentioned in a book you might be reading.. Which seems to be part of human nature - because you can more readily identify with someone who is not too different from yourself. Being able to switch places with that character and yourself - and derive a better understanding of what the writer hopes to convey.

Ethnicity not so much considering my heritage is rather odd and different from the norm - being that it is middle eastern. So unless the book is about that area - my mind's eye does not wander towards my ethnic classification.

Interesting to look at it from the perspective you mentioned.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,865 posts)
13. Thank you.
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 09:33 PM
Jan 2023

Because I have a "normal" and "common" heritage (white American) you've given me something to think about.

Grown2Hate

(2,013 posts)
14. Things I Did NOT Expect to See in this Thread for
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 09:38 PM
Jan 2023

$1000, Alex. No judgement!

I'm personally bad at picturing people in books except for VERY vaguely. But most of my favorite books, I'd already seen some version of it (movie, TV show), so I have a sort of pre-conceived image usually.

That being said, for anyone familiar, the casting for The Expanse was one of the most brilliant casting jobs EVER. I can't imagine ANY actor portraying Jim, Amos, Chrisjen, Naomi, or Alex any better (or even competently). Amazing job.

Am I still making sense? Did I ever?... ::slowly backs away::

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,865 posts)
16. Since I have not watched The Expanse,
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 09:49 PM
Jan 2023

I can't offer a comment or opinion.

But in terms of other things I've seen, sometimes the casting is wonderful, other times not so wonderful.

Yes, you make sense. You can back up now.

Grown2Hate

(2,013 posts)
25. They would describe each character and their
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 10:57 PM
Jan 2023

complexion, cultural foods, or garb (like in Chrisjen's case), but didn't really differentiate race, if that makes sense (like you referenced, short of the differences between Belter, Martian, and Earthers, but even that was more the body differences from living in uniquely different gravity wells).

The books are SO immersive and descriptive that's its unlike anything I've ever read. I'm at the tail end of the 9th (and final) book now. I don't want it to end!

Wounded Bear

(58,673 posts)
12. I'm basically with you...
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 09:17 PM
Jan 2023

If it isn't explicitly stated or strongly inferred in the opening passages, I kind of assume whiteness. But of course I'm a white male.

Tree Lady

(11,479 posts)
15. If the author isn't descriptive of the characters
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 09:42 PM
Jan 2023

I probably see them same as author or me. Most of the books I read they describe how the characters look.

Marcuse

(7,493 posts)
17. Good question. I don't consciously generate images to fill in the authors' deliberate blanks.
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 10:21 PM
Jan 2023

It’s like reading a transcript. Perhaps I lack imagination. Literally.

nightwing1240

(1,996 posts)
18. Great question
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 10:26 PM
Jan 2023

Along with how a character may look, I often will imagine their voice as I read whatever it is they are saying. Imagination is a good thing when used properly.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
26. I always assume I am reading the author's "voice".
Fri Jan 6, 2023, 10:58 PM
Jan 2023

Then that is how I envision the character, unless the author is explicit about the character's description.

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