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[milestogo]

This message was self-deleted by its author (milestogo) on Mon Jan 9, 2023, 09:25 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[patricia92243]

1. The more we hear from him, it shows a very disturbed young man.

[ZonkerHarris]

26. many soldiers suffer from all sorts of forms of PTSD after wars and other conflicts

[obamanut2012]

58. Lol what?

[Sky Jewels]

102. Oh, please.

He's not "very disturbed."

[Buckeyeblue]

103. All the royals are fucked up. You can't live under that bubble and not be

That's why it's a stupid institution. I don't understand why the British people tolerate it. Not that it's any of my business...my tax dollars don't support it.

[Baltimike]

2. I hope both of them get the help they need. nt

[Celerity]

3. Prince Harry claims William and Kate Middleton told him to wear Nazi costume

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/prince-harry-claims-prince-william-and-kate-middleton-told-him-to-wear-nazi-costume/news-story/5d9b4d42a416e5e973c67a98a5966131

Prince Harry sensationally puts some of the blame for his Nazi uniform scandal on his brother, Prince William, and his sister-in-law, Kate Middleton, in his new memoir.

Page Six reports the Duke of Sussex will claim the Prince and Princess of Wales “howled with laughter” when they saw him dressed up for the 2005 party.

Harry was 20 years old when The Sun newspaper published a front-page photo of him dressed as a Nazi soldier with a red armband emblazoned with a big swastika.

The picture was taken at a costume party with a “Native and Colonial” theme, where William was also a guest and was dressed in a homemade lion outfit.

snip

[dflprincess]

6. His always crying victim is getting old very fast

I agree with the poster above, he isn't well and needs to get help.

[Celerity]

11. I do not fully agree, especially with the causal pop psychology hot take

he isn't well and needs to get help

The vast majority of hatred in the UK for Harry and Meghan comes from deep British racism. I grew up in London, so am well aware of this British racism, especially as I am a mixed race PoC myself.

I also am a hardcore republican (anti-monarchist, NOT, of course the US Rethug party) and think it all should be scrapped.

[MustLoveBeagles]

15. I'd always been pro-royal but am now coming around to your way of thinking

It's an archeaic system that warps and twists people and Im not referring to Harry. You couldn't pay me to live in that gilded cage.

[Raine]

23. I was always interested in the historic aspect of the monarchy but now

I'm sick to death of the constant public whining and complaining.

[Demovictory9]

43. Thank you for an alt perspective

[Dorian Gray]

65. I agree with you

that a lot of the british hatred is born in racism (and anti american resentment and classism). I also am a republican in the sense of monarchies. Royalty is dumb. (But I am an american and it's not my battle.)

Despite that, I think Harry is coming across as pretty messy right now. I appreciate the trainwreck, as it's fun to gawk at. It's damaging the royals, too, and their reputation, so I support it all. lol

But, Harry does seem to have some personal reckoning to do. The speaking of his kills in afghanistan is problematic. Blaming Will and Kate for his nazi costume is lack of ownership of his own decisions. He's behaving like a child still. Stunted growth.

Honestly, people hate Meghan, but I"m not quite sure what she even sees in him.

(Meghan and Kate are the two people I don't despise in the whole family -- maybe Anne, too--... and they also happen to be the two who weren't born into royalty and the two who are always pitted against each other.)

[DenaliDemocrat]

21. The monarchy is a pretty fucked up thing

I’d wager ALL of them could be considered victims if they felt like it

[Sympthsical]

14. This stuff shows why he's not Diana

Diana, for all her good and bad qualities, was open about her flaws and frailties. Of course, much of it was curated in the media at the time, but part of the reason she was so relatable is because her problems were relatable.

This is just Privilege: The Why Everything Is Everyone Else's Fault Tour.

I keep wondering who his friends are. He's not far from me in age, and I just cannot imagine anyone at all in my life not taking me aside at some point and going, "What the fuck are you doing?"

I get that it's all about the $$$ (this "truth" they keep wanting to tell seems peppered with an awful lot of verified lies).

But damn. He's just burning his whole life and family up. And for what? Americans are not nearly as interested in the two of them as they seem to think we are. Yeah, we're rubber-necking now - it's great soap opera drama. (I fully expect a story about how someone pushed someone else down the stairs at some point while everyone wore dresses with shoulder pads).

But it isn't sustainable. Everyone's already getting kind of bored with it. His book will come out, there will be some chatter, then what? What will they have to offer? Because so far they've offered family drama. That material's going to run out eventually.

Their divorce is going to be epic, tho. Oh, it's coming.

[milestogo]

17. He does seem to be looking for American support.

Last edited Mon Jan 9, 2023, 12:46 AM - Edit history (1)

The thing is, I had no idea who Meghan Markle was when he became engaged to her. She's not much of a celebrity, and she seemed to think that marrying a "prince" was going to enhance her celebrity.

Their whole romance was calculated to sell as a fairy tale. I don't care and I don't buy it. But I do hate to see anyone self-destruct on the world stage, and to me it seems like that's what Harry is doing.

[Sympthsical]

20. That's why the divorce will be a trainwreck

I don't expect one any time soon. Give it five to ten years when their celebrity has waned and they have nothing else to sell the public - because the only thing they have to sell is this royal drama. I've seen nothing to suggest anyone would be interested in anything else they do.

He's going to get thrown under the bus so fast. It'll be all allegations of mental illness due to unresolved grief over Diana or whatever.

And he'll be sitting there with no one except the hangers on.

It's really depressing. His mother's death messed him up something fierce. Which is understandable. I think Markle wanted the celebrity gold ring and pushed all his sensitive buttons ("Oh, golly, I never knew anything about Diana!" *cough* bullshit *cough*). And he's got all kinds of resentments bubbling out now.

And this isn't a defense of the royals. They're their own mess. Until Andrew is catapulted into the moon, I see them as complicit. And that's scratching the surface. That's just what we know about.

I think the most fascinating thing in all this is the total abject lack of self-awareness. I'm always interested when people lack it, but these two are operating on a level that is just epic. They really have no inkling of how they're perceived. Even with the people who take their side. Sympathy is not admiration nor a promise to support them in future projects. It's just sympathy as the ooze leaks out.

Ah well. People make their choices. He's making his.

[obamanut2012]

59. You just proved them right with your slam at Markle

My God.

[milestogo]

93. My slam at Meghan Markle?

By saying she's not much of a celebrity?

[BuddhaGirl]

92. Total projection

That's some Daily Mail b.s. you're offering here LOL

[pinkstarburst]

76. Oh please.

If you believe that, maybe Trump should stand up and say Biden told him to order the Jan 6th insurrection. 🙄

Notice Kate and Will have never worn a Nazi uniform. Harry did. But of course Harry has an excuse for why nothing is every his fault.

[SharonClark]

4. Harry wrote a memoir - it's his story and he

can write what he wants even though many ex-soldiers would never talk about their kill count.

It’s evident that the retired Colonel is in the antiHarry camp for more than talking about his military service in his memoir. His comments go way beyond criticizing Harry’s memoir.

I can’t believe I am defending a Royal 😗.

[RockRaven]

5. Well, I'm disturbed that royal families exist, and that people buy and read their memoirs.

Disturbance abounds.

[CountAllVotes]

9. The Royals do nothing for me

.

[PlutosHeart]

27. The far right in the UK would like to see them fall.

That way there is no competition to balance anything out.

It is somewhat recognized that even though the Royals do not make policy, they have been able to urge reason sometimes.

Harry is serving their needs and not that of his country. For this reason, I see him as a pawn to them and to the media for $$$. In essence he is now his mother.
I have no clue to his relationship with Megan but it is suspect that he is seemingly suffering and she might not be helping the situation.

[IbogaProject]

7. He should speak out against the Crown

I'm not buying any PR bs that spoiled brat is selling until he speaks against the Crown and suggests forfeiting their illgotten wealth. Not like any bellyaching is going to bring back the millions killed in the name of the Crown.

[Deuxcents]

8. Do you think they are so isolated and regimented in thought and behavior

That they don’t know how the real world is? Are they stuck in pomp n thousand year old ceremonies that have no social graces in current affairs? Just curious..

[milestogo]

12. I think the monarchy is at least as dysfunctional as any other family

but they are also a corporation which makes it worse. They approach marriage like they are breeding racehorses.

I feel sorry for Harry, as the loss of his mother seems to have really scarred him. I think there are very few women who could successfully marry into this family. But I don't think the public airing of grievances is going to help them at all.

[CountAllVotes]

10. My late father would never answer the question

How many people did you kill in the war Daddy? No answer.

He was a proud sergeant in the U.S. Marine Corps.

He did not need to nor care to answer!

[milestogo]

13. I think that's the best response.

Countries engage in wars. Individuals serve their countries.

[Raine]

22. Neither would mine. When I was just a little girl I asked my

father if he killed anyone in the war. Right away my mother jumped in and said "don't ever ask him that again"! I never did and I'm sorry to this day ever asked.

[CountAllVotes]

41. Well, you were just an innocent kid

How would you know? You didn't so forget it!

As for this Harry idiot, that's what he is, an idiot.

Comparing killing living human beings to tokens in a chess game tells one all they need to know about this freak. ugh!

[Hekate]

54. You were a little kid. Fathers don't usually tell their small children what they did...

But you’re all grown up now and can look up books like:

Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character
By Jonathan Shay, MD, PhD

[Victor_c3]

69. I will never tell me children any of the real details about my combat experiences

I like my two daughters thinking of me as a goofy, happy-go-lucky, and rarely overly serious person.

My largest fear when I first became a father was what would my kids think of me if/when they found out about my military service. Would they look at me like some sort of monster?

At 12 and 14, my two daughters know bits and pieces about my service and they certainly see the impact it has had on me. My fear of being viewed as a monster has been somewhat abated, but I still don’t know if either of them have pieced together that I’ve probably killed people.

[Happy Hoosier]

77. I think there's the matter of distance.

Harry was in a helicopter. He had some distance from the enemy. It's a little easier to establish an emotional distance.

I will say my grandpa didn't seem to mind talking about his war stories. He 'sanitized' them to some extent, but he didn't shy away from talking about how brutal it was, even when I was a kid.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

96. My father was also a Marine. A fighter pilot in the Pacific in WWII.

I have a strong memory of when I asked my father this question when I was a child.

I did not expect the look of pure anguish that crossed my father's face, before he said, "I hope none."

I always felt a little bit ashamed of putting my father in that position. He was a humanist and the realities of war were painful to him.

I never repeated such inquiries.

[LeftInTX]

99. My dad was a B-29 pilot..forget that

His model had little bomb pics with a bomb for each raid

[SYFROYH]

16. Harry and Megan have a funny way of trying to stay out of the media spotlight.

[RobinA]

85. I Have Defended Them

in the past, but they do need to shut up. Many of the comments about Meghan have been totally uncalled for and I get their distress on that end, but they are now making things worse for themselves.

[treestar]

95. people say uncalled for things

and it's their fault?

Why shut up if you think things are important enough to be said. Whether you just want your side heard or whether you think maybe you should speak against racism, or whatever else he mentions?

[NCjack]

18. Time for MegHar to move to Canada.

[Raine]

24. I wish. I hate that they're living here in

California, too much about them on the local "news".

[PlutosHeart]

29. I think they must need money so continue on with this crap.

[blm]

19. A lot of military guys talk kill numbers. A lot won't.

Guys with high kill numbers even become famous.

Chris Kyle was known for ……..?

[Skittles]

36. let's not count gun humping assholes

thank you

[blm]

44. I'd like to act like they don't represent a portion of vets

But, I couldn’t act my way out of a paper bag even if there was a paycheck for it. 🤓

[3Hotdogs]

45. My father was on a navy troop transport, transporting marines from the large transport to shore, on

L.T.C.s (landing troop carriers). If you want to get a sense of what that was, watch the beginning of "Letters From Iwo Jima." It is Japanese footage showing about a hundred of boats in the water an splashes all around them. The splashes were Japanese artillery shells, trying to sink those boats.

He never talked about Iwo Jima. The only military experience he ever talked about was his time on Pearl Harbor, before the war. That was when he got "busted" for being in a bar fight and got time in the brig.

[blm]

52. My dad didn't talk much about it, either.

But, he was always jumpy at sudden noises, like if we dropped a schoolbook. 😢

[beaglelover]

25. I see nothing wrong with him disclosing this information.

At least he was brave enough to go fight for his country over there unlike his brother.

[milestogo]

28. It could make him or any of the royal family or Britain into a target

if its perceived as bragging.

[Hekate]

100. You don't think they're not a target for a lot of groups already?

Interesting.

[milestogo]

101. Is that what I said?

[chowder66]

31. I went looking for the context and don't take issue with it because each

person who goes through something like this has their own way of contextualizing or dealing with it. He seems to be confronting it in my opinion.

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

33. Thank you so much for posting the context, was waiting for it.

[Cha]

38. Mahalo for this Context.. there

Usually is more to the story.

I support Harry & Meghan.. not the British Tabloid's version of Hate and Racism.

[irisblue]

53. As do I.

[Solomon]

107. Me too Cha.

[MustLoveBeagles]

110. I do too

[Hekate]

50. Thanks

[Bettie]

68. Thanks for sharing the context

it really does make a difference.

[ecstatic]

73. +1. nt

[treestar]

80. sounds more thoughtful

than disturbed.

[chowder66]

86. +1

It sounds like he's holding himself accountable based on what he was trained to do but making sure he doesn't bury it accounting for his actions. He seems like he takes self-inventory pretty seriously.

[SYFROYH]

89. Of course he could have written virtually the same thing, but without a tally.

For some reason that was important to him to put out there.

I suspect Harry knew exactly what he was doing with this section of his book -- humble brag.

[MustLoveBeagles]

108. Thank you for providing context

I would've taken a very dim view of bragging but that's not what I'm seeing here. This is his way of dealing with his combat experience. Like you said everyone deals with things differently. I honestly don't get what the fuss is about. I don't think these disclousures puts any more of a target on him than is there already.

[obamanut2012]

60. Me either, and dome of these responses

Are very wth.

[Wingus Dingus]

81. I don't either. It's part of his life story, and maybe something that he grapples

with mentally and emotionally.

[Aussie105]

30. Harry has a lot of growing up to do.

Most of us live in a world where you occasionally bump your head against reality and make adjustments accordingly.

Royalty and their offspring never do. They grow up without shaping their personalities to fit in with the real world.

Harry met Meghan and now lives in the real world.

A bit of psychotherapy might help make the transition.

But seriously - this book should have been run through a small audience while in draft form to see which bits went down well, and which bits didn't.

Memoirs get edited for good reasons.

[Skittles]

37. I don't think either of them live in the real world

they live in their own world, where they are the center of the universe

[Blue_playwright]

32. I love Harry. But I really want him to shut up.

I wish he had ONLY done the book. No interviews. No documentary (even though I enjoyed it).

Just write the book, set your opinion/experience in history. Let it ride.

[Cha]

39. I love the Doc and so appreciate

they did it.

[DET]

34. Sad All Around

I felt really sorry for Harry while I was watching that interview. I had no idea that the death of his mother had screwed him up so badly (seems obvious that it would, but both brothers appeared to be pretty stoic after her death). Then he married someone who had her own family baggage. Plus they had to deal with the racism against Megan. Yes, they’re wealthy and privileged, but they’re still human beings. I hope their marriage lasts, but they are facing a lot of challenges, including potential financial difficulties in the future.

[Skittles]

35. disgusting

all the veterans I have ever known, NONE of them would use their war experience for attention

I am truly sick of Harry and Meghan

[obamanut2012]

61. What he said is not the least disgusting

Some of the responses here are just.....

You didn't even read what Harry actually said.

[betsuni]

66. +1

[kskiska]

40. Now he's changed his tune on whether the RF is racist.

On Oprah he stated that someone in the RF questioned what color Archie's skin would be. Now he denies any racism at all on the part of the family, per his interview with Tom Bradby. Plus, he stands by Lady Hussey, Lady in Waiting, who left her job after a so-called racist interchange.

[eShirl]

42. good on Harry for escaping that dumpster fire of a family

[msongs]

46. he hasnt excaped. his entire identity is still wrapped up in royal stuff. he said he wanted out

yet he has refused to actually go. maybe its the money

[Hekate]

48. If I understand correctly, "the money" is his inheritance from his mother Diana...

She arranged that her estate as a Spencer should go to him, because his older brother was going to get the kingdom in the fullness of time, and as the younger brother, Harry wasn’t going to get much in the way of an independent life.

His whole job in life was to be there in case William died before having his own heirs. Must feel swell, being the spare.

[eShirl]

87. if you say so

[Hekate]

47. His military service & its aftereffects are his story to tell. Right? Does it disturb you that...

…a soldier in a war is ordered to kill? Well, war is disturbing that way. Does it disturb you that he compartmentalized the experience ( “chess pieces” ) in order to psychologically survive? Well, trauma survivors everywhere report that experience.

You can find the books and articles if you look for them -- just go digging for American veterans of the Vietnam War. Go further back to the poets of WWI. It doesn’t take a whole lot of research to find the literature.

[betsuni]

51. +1

[obamanut2012]

62. Thank you

[Bettie]

70. +1

Well said.

[milestogo]

75. Its disturbing because of who he is.

He's not Joe Nobody. He's a Prince of England. Like it or not, he is a public figure, and by talking kill numbers he is making himself and his family, and the royal family, a Taliban target.

Its counter-intuitive for someone who is worried about their security situation to go around talking about how many Afghans he killed.

[treestar]

83. Agree it is oddly right wing

to claim being stoic is the way to go.

The same people would say don't shy away from the ugly parts of US history, Native Americans and their sufferings.

No we are careful to "support the troops" due to Vietnam syndrome (the claim people spit on them). So that does not include them talking about what it actually involves?

[JI7]

49. Why can't he talk about it ? He isn't bragging. He is telling reality of how it was for him

[obamanut2012]

63. Exactly, people didn't even read what he said

[milestogo]

91. You have no way of knowing what people did or did not read.

You're not reading the whole discussion, just pounding your drum over and over.

[BuddhaGirl]

105. Just as people opining

and projecting about Harry's marriage, actions, intentions etc. are doing.

Neither you nor I know the truth of it all.

[Hekate]

55. Recommended reading about combat trauma for you all: Achilles in Vietnam

Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character,
by Jonathan Shay, MD, PhD

[RobinA]

88. I Second This

It is an excellent book and covers a lot of ground you don't usually hear about. Even in trauma circles.

[blue cat]

56. I love Harry and Meghan.

The far right are the ones that usually support the monarchy. I think it’s shameful for people saying the should shut up as they flap their gums. He has every right to defend himself since everyone seems to not be able to shut up about telling them to shut up.

[RobinA]

90. I Like Them, Too

but I am telling them to shut-up. They are making things difficult for themselves by keeping themselves in the spotlight they say they want out of.

[BuddhaGirl]

94. Actually they never mentioned

wanting "privacy" as a reason for bailing out of being working royals.

It was more about not feeling supported by their family and the horrible attacks by the press.

[orleans]

57. i hope things get worked out & i hope they live happily ever after. the end. nt

[betsuni]

64. And just like that, the usual desensitization of soldiers having to kill enemies in wars

is a big secret, a huge shock, nobody knew this about the job.

Like how lawyers represent guilty criminals and how medical professionals see disgusting things without getting grossed out and running away, how anybody working with the general public has to be polite. It's the job.

Also, from the responses here about this and a lot of things, the idea that every motivation for everything is money is stupid.

[Hekate]

98. This. Really this.

[Victor_c3]

67. Given he was an attack helicopter pilot, I don't doubt it.

What do people think combat troops did in the Middle East?

My Infantry platoon killed 46 people that I know of when I was in Iraq and wounded many more.

Years back, I made the mistake of getting a BSM license plate (bronze star medal). When I went to the DMV to pick it up, people in line asked me what I did to get that medal. I told them simply “I killed a bunch of people”. They stood there with their mouths open and shut up really quick after that. As an infantryman, I wasn’t sent to Iraq to shake hands and play nice with the insurgents.

Honestly, did they expect me to give them some inspiring story that would leave them feeling a sense of glory and positivity?

It’s easy to judge people who’ve been in combat if you’ve never experienced it or it’s direct impacts. War brings out the worst in people.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

71. Civilians being shocked and horrified that a veteran talks about his combat experience helps make it

harder for the next veteran to talk about it, and establishes a false reverence about combat itself.

[obamanut2012]

74. Exactly, WG

Many of the responses in this thread are wtaf.

[ecstatic]

72. As a somewhat neutral third party...

I haven't watched the documentary, I don't follow Harry or Megan or the royals: would it be better if he had not kept track of the damage and carnage he had caused as a soldier? Let's be honest about what soldiers (at war) are trained to do. If the 25 number is correct, it means that each kill had an impact on him, and that he made a conscious decision to remember. His actions during the war still weigh on him.

And regarding the criticism of not keeping the information to himself. What's wrong with being transparent? If he killed 25 people during a war, that's what happened. Being honest about it will at least make lawmakers think twice before engaging in wars. Just my opinion, of course.

[pinkstarburst]

78. The big problem I see here

is that whether or not some vets talk about kills and some do not, Harry is no ordinary vet. He's not some regular joe who did his service and now works as a high school math teacher living in rural Indiana.

Harry and Meghan were both very worried about the status of their security and the safety of their children long before the memoir was released. They no longer have UK police protection, nor should they given that they are no longer working royals. Given what recently happened with Salman Rushdie, it is incredibly stupid of Harry to include something like this in his book. It makes him more of a target. It makes his children and wife targets. It increases the threat towards his security detail, which is a selfish thing to do just to sell a book. I am horrified that someone who claims to love his wife and children would do this.

This, and all the other things in the book have not made me respect or sympathize with Harry. They have made me realize the degree to which Harry is seriously mentally ill.

[milestogo]

79. Thank you.

That is what I find disturbing.

[treestar]

84. Huge assumption

Like the Taliban has nothing better to do than petty revenge on individuals? To the extent they exist as the same people? And that they don't love death more than life and all that jazz?

Rushdie was much more of a target - it was for a specific, non-war act. Interesting that a book upset the fanatical Muslims more than any killing.

[jalan48]

82. And the drama of the privileged and famous continues.....

[treestar]

97. When it comes to royals it's not their fault

they are born that way and are stuck with the media being fascinated with them.

Even marrying one may be because they fell in love with somebody, so it's not always particularly that person's choice to be excoriated in the media all the time.

[jalan48]

104. Stuck being a Royal with all the privilege that entails? I'd say quit the firm then

and drop those silly titles that go with all that privilege while they're at it.

[treestar]

106. paparazzi might find that even more fascinating

[NutmegYankee]

109. I've watched dozens of WWII/Korea/Vietnam/Desert Storm documentatries with veterans talking about it

Some people can talk about it, some can't. It says little about them.

[Arazi]

111. Three combat vets in my direct family. 2 discussed their service

Including their “kills” - they were pilots and actually painted the number of dead enemy combatants on their planes. They had made peace with their service and discussed it openly.

One was special forces and was in service for 6 years in some of the worst hotspots in the world. He has severe PTSD and can’t talk about it. At all.

I don’t think you can extrapolate anything from what a soldier says about their experience. Each one processes it differently and tbh, you suck for judging