On the gas stoves issue

[Aviation Pro]

I'm a damn fine cook according to my wife and we have a glass top convection stove. Would I like a gas stove, yes, but has anyone priced not just the range, but the installation necessary to convert to natural gas?

So, it's fucking laughable when MAGAts are outraged at this bullshit that the federal government wants to ban the use of these types of ranges considering that most of them don't have a pot to shit in.

[Historic NY]

1. Like the light bulb and then the low water use flush toilets

really we should be offering them candles and Sears catalogs (must be thousands stored somewhere) for the outhouse.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

4. But natural gas is ridiculously nice to cook on.

Low water toilets flush well. The light bulbs work. It is very hard to replicate cooking on a gas burner. We have an induction stove and that gets close, but still wish I had the gas stove from our last house.

[Historic NY]

7. I have gas, I do remember coming into the house with the old pilot lit stove in winter

and there was always an odor, then we got one with the sparker no more smell, now I have a fairly new Fisher/Paykel dual over and broilers. I can't manage with the induction, something about knowing how hot the flame is to the eye.

I have a gas hot water and boiler. The boiler is quite old but its been checked and its still in a new like state with a new flame nozzle.

[karynnj]

10. Until last summer, I would have agreed 100 percent with you

I have had gas stoves since I got my first appartment in 1972. I also hated using the electric stove tops available to us in many timeshares. However, last summer, the unit we were in in Lanzarote was recently unpdated and had an induction hub. After figuring out how to use it, it was wonderful. We did not do much cooking, but loved how easy it was to make perfect omlettes and fried eggs. It also boiled water incredibly fast and was easy to clean.

We were impressed enough that when our current 15 year old stove dies, we want to get a good induction one even though we have learned we would need to upgrade the electric line going to the stove. We need to make sure the condo we live in will approve it. Environmental concerns are now not balanced with concern of a degraded cooking experience.

[FoxNewsSucks]

2. I really hate them. So fucking outraged by whatever they're told to be outraged by.

[Historic NY]

9. Then wait until they see this

https://www.today.com/food/news/ronzoni-pastina-discontinued-rcna64898]

[FoxNewsSucks]

16. As soon as they can figure out how it's Biden's fault. . . .

[Cuthbert Allgood]

3. It might be costly to convert, but you know a lot of "regular" homes have gas lines, right?

I don't in this house, but did in my last house and neither of those are anything but middle class homes.

Your argument feels pretty classist and factually wrong.

[Aviation Pro]

5. Some do, here in my community, nah

Everything in my sub-division is electric and converting to gas, aside from the cost, is verboten in the community. There's nothing class about it, it's just another way for MAGAt GenX and Boomers to mis-remember what they thought the 1950s and early 60s were.

[fishwax]

26. in my community electric stoves aren't that common outside of newer or upper-middle class residences

The housing stock here is old, and consists largely of single-family homes built when gas lines were common/standard and since converted to multi-family dwellings (but often without conversion to electric stoves). Aside from one kitchen (which had been extensively renovated by an upper-middle class couple) I can't remember a home that I've been in here that didn't have a gas stove.

I think it depends more on location than on people's memories of the 50s/60s. (I grew up in the 80s, but in places where gas stoves were rare enough that I still remember the first time I encountered one.

[yellowdogintexas]

14. our early 60s house has a gas line. Our hot water is gas

as well as our heat. When these homes were built, many of them were set up for either gas or electric in the kitchen. We have electric appliances but a gas hook-up comes through the kitchen wall into the cabinet under the cooktop.

However when we got a new hot water heater, the installer had to replace the connector because the old one was no longer an approved style. He told me that if we went to a gas cooktop we would probably need to have some replacement parts on that hookup

I don't know about the other houses near us but we also have a hookup for gas logs in the fireplace. To my knowledge it has not been used for over 30 years; I am certain that if we wanted to activate it some sort of upgrading would be needed.

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

17. Depends greatly on the location.

Many homes in the south have been built on slabs of concrete. When we had our home built, they installed a gas line in the kitchen for our gas stove. To retrofit a gas line would be very expensive, if possible, one could if the building code allowed it, put a line outside the foundation, if the stove was on an outside wall. With a basement or crawlspace, easy to install a new line to the kitchen.

[CTyankee]

25. we do. Ours is one of the last group of houses built before WW2, a pre-war colonial. A real gem.

In those days you had a gas line. I love it. I don't cook much any more since I got old and an arthritic back, but when I did it was wonderful. It is wonderful today, too.

[Delmette2.0]

6. I got rid of my gas stove when I got new cabinets.

I discovered when we ripped out the old cabinets that the gas line was installed as an afterthought. It is probably illegal and dangerous. I had the gas line sealed off and updated the breakers box for the 220 line and it was good to go. Now I have a glass top and two ovens. (Two ovens are very convenient for turkey dinners.)

[ripcord]

8. We had the power go out for 3 days here

At least we were able to cook and heat our homes during that time with gas.

[Bettie]

13. 16 days here

and it was good to have a way to cook.

Without our gas stove, we'd have needed to either get restaurant food or eat cold canned stuff, because in summer, refrigerator and freezer stuff went bad quickly. DH moved our generator every couple of hours between our house and four neighbors in an attempt to keep things cold enough that we could all work on eating what we could before it went bad.

[moonscape]

30. I use a Coleman camper stove when

the power is out. Two burners and it’s a treat since I so prefer gas . Once it was out for 5 days so really was useful!

[Genki Hikari]

36. You can't do that if your power is out during a blizzard.

nt

[Kaleva]

22. That's a big reason I'm going to stick with LP gas

I can still cook even if the power is out.

[Arthur_Frain]

27. And this is my favorite go to "you do you" response.

It’s why I bought a gas stove that had absolutely zero electronics on it except the igniter, which is necessary. But you can still start it with a match or a bic if necessary.

I’ve finished my turkey roasting on Thanksgiving when the power went out. Powers out for how long? IDGAF because I can always cook on the gas stove.

If you live somewhere temperate with access to cheap hydropower, great, I get it. I live in the north country, the grid is not anything you want to depend on for your life, and gas with a wood stove still make a lot of sense up here.

As an aside, a friend recently bought one of the newer Hondas, and all of the higher technology electronics DO NOT WORK when it gets 20 to 40 below throughout the week. It has to be garaged or else it doesn’t operate properly. I’d love to have one of those Raptor F150 Lightnings, but I just don’t think it’s been durability tested enough up here.

[Wingus Dingus]

11. I have a glass top electric convection, it replaced a faltering dual-fuel

gas range/electric oven. The old appliance was superior to cook with, but I couldn't afford a new one--the very cheapest dual fuel is $2000, and I don't like gas ovens so I didn't want an all-gas range/oven. Plus we plan to move soon and I didn't want to buy someone else an expensive appliance that I wouldn't have bought for myself. So we had a plumber cap the gas line in the kitchen in case a future homeowner wants a gas range again, and we bought the electric. We're just a middle class home, though--I never thought gas lines were anything special, even the poorest homes where I grew up in Pennsylvania had gas stoves.

[packman]

12. I loved cooking on my gas stove - but, time moves on

Dangerous and dirty, yes- like gas powered cars (which will see their day come to an end). Old age cooks makes it even more dangerous to be around an open flame.
I guess this is another "woke" issue for the MAGA one-brain-cell to get juiced up on.

[former9thward]

20. Gas stoves are neither dirty or dangerous.

Even AOC has admitted she uses one in her home. They are much superior for cooking.

[The Revolution]

23. Homes with gas stoves contain far higher levels of pollution than those with electric stoves

https://policyintegrity.org/files/publications/Emissions_in_the_Kitchen_Report_v3_%281%29.pdf

Compared to homes with electric stoves, homes with gas stoves contain higher levels of NO2 and PM2.5. Electric stoves do not emit NO2, and levels of that pollutant in homes with electric stoves typically reflect background levels of NO2 from outdoors or other sources. By contrast, NO2 is present in homes with gas stoves at concentrations that are 50% to over 400% higher than those in homes with electric stoves. In addition, gas stoves produce twice as much PM2.5 as electric stoves and their flames emit PM2.5 even when there is no food on the stove, leading to higher concentrations of fine particles in the home.
...
NO2 and PM2.5 exposure at the levels emitted by gas stoves has been linked to serious adverse health effects. In a 2016 report on nitrogen oxides, EPA identified a causal relationship between short-term exposure to NO2 concentrations within the range generated by gas stoves and adverse respiratory effects, including asthma exacerbation. It also found a likely causal relationship between long term exposure to NO2 and the development of asthma. EPA further concluded that reported increases in hospitalizations for respiratory symptoms may be attributed to NO2 exposure. The agency also cited research suggesting a causal link between short- and long-term exposure to NO2 and a variety of other health harms, such as heart rate variability, systemic inflammation of other organs, adverse birth outcomes, cancer, and death.

PM2.5 is also widely recognized to pose serious health risks, such as premature death in people with heart or lung disease, nonfatal heart attacks, irregular heartbeat, aggravated asthma, decreased lung function, and increased respiratory symptoms such as irritation of the airways, coughing or difficulty breathing. Causal relationships between adverse health effects and PM2.5 have been found at long-term exposure levels well below EPA’s ambient limits for outdoor air, which indoor concentrations caused by gas stoves likely exceed.

See also:
Population Attributable Fraction of Gas Stoves and Childhood Asthma in the United States

In conclusion, 12.7% of current childhood asthma nationwide is attributed to gas stove use, which is similar to the childhood asthma burden attributed to secondhand smoke exposure

Natural Gas Used in Homes Contains Hazardous Air Pollutants

This study shows that gas appliances like stoves and ovens can be a source of hazardous chemicals in our homes even when we’re not using them

[former9thward]

28. Nonsense.

Why is childhood asthma increasing when smoking is decreasing? We have had gas stoves for a long, long time. What is causing the asthma rates to increase now?

[Model35mech]

31. Indoor pollution? Open a window, get stove vented to the outside, etc

Asthma risk?? Find out why the air isn't replaced frequently enough to prevent asthma and fix it.

Gas still does the BIG jobs better for less. I say that as the owner of home in WI using electric everything. Even with a VERY well insulated passive solar house. Electric is more costly than gas. Philosophically I like my geothermal heat, geothermal/electric hybrid water heater (it makes supplemental hot water when it runs air-conditioning and heating. Yes. electric outages which happen to me 2-3 times a winter can stop everything.

But I also have 2 high efficiency wood burners for days of deep cold (after 6 hours below zero F, the ground temp around the geothermal coils drops and it can't keep up with heat demand. I find renewable biomass wood from my 7 acre woodlot is WAY cheaper than Wisconsin electric running thru the 'auxillary' heating rods

I put that all together over a decade ago. I was worried that someone would start eliminating domestic fossil fueled home heating, and now it is starting. I was pretty sure that as long as there was civilization there would be electrical service.

Of course, after Trump, civilization is uncertain.

[The Revolution]

33. I don't think they are saying asthma rates are increasing

Just that gas stoves may increase the risk of asthma in children. This is possibly just being discovered now if no one had looked at it before.

In the study from Michanowicz et al., the authors state:

Overall, we conducted a first-of-its-kind trace-gas characterization of unburned NG collected directly from indoor residential kitchen stovetops and outdoor building NG service lines throughout Greater Boston, Massachusetts.

Gruenwald et al. state:

With this background, we attempted to quantify the population-attributable fraction (PAF) for gas stove use and current childhood asthma in the US, including at the state level, which had never been done

Note that the latest talk of banning gas stoves came from the Consumer Product Safety Commission, so it is related to consumer safety, not climate change in this case. The studies quoted above come from peer-reviewed scientific journals, so I wouldn't dismiss it as "nonsense" out of hand.

There may be other solutions other than banning. For example, updating building codes to ensure better ventilation in homes where gas stoves will be used. Range hoods could be updated to ensure the performance is good enough to pull out harmful substances. Maybe the stove and hood could be linked so that the hood fan automatically turns on when the stove is in use.

[GreenWave]

15. This is going to be their bread and butter issue for 2024.

[sarisataka]

18. Because your personal situation

Is universally applicable to everyone?

The house I am in is set up for gas appliances so I don't have to convert anything. In fact it would take an expensive electrical upgrade to change from gas.

I would expect most houses built in the 70s or earlier are set up for gas stoves. Let's consider for a moment the age of houses or most minority and poor areas. They are not typically newer houses. It is very self-centered and elitist to assume such a ban would not have a major impact on these communities.

[Poiuyt]

19. My wife and I have considered switching from gas to induction

We're old and a couple of times have forgotten to shut off the burner. No bad incidences, but it certainly is troubling.

[Kaleva]

21. Most of us living in the Trump loving boonies have LP gas

[Calculating]

24. I love my gas stove

So much better than electric, it even works when the power goes out. Imo trying to ban gas stoves is a losing cause politically.

[Pathwalker]

29. I will never forget driving past that house that had just blown up -

All kinds of "stuff" was floating down as the fire truck behind me wailed. I pulled over and watched as they approached that hole in the ground where that new-ish house used to be. The gas pilot light had blown out and when the heat came on - boom. The two women who owned it and lived there were at work, but their two dogs perished. For this reason an others, I'll use electric, thank you very much.

[dsc]

32. I have had electric for years

my most recent is a glass top conduction. While gas would likely be better, I do alright with this as well. It would cost me a fortune to go gas (cement slab, interior placement of stove, no gas hookup). So, I will use what I have. I also do admit that the air quality advantage does seem real.

[Mr.Bill]

34. From what I've seen on wingnut websites,

this is being presented as "Them gubmint people are gonna come take your stove!" when actually they are mostly talking about banning them in new constriction.

[Historic NY]

35. Its not just stoves it furnaces, dryers, fireplaces

I just got killed with the prices of gas from my utility, 752 dollar Christmas present. Do people think electric is cheaper.? Removing a gas furnace means its either oil or some electrical combo system. The biggest problem is we big houses that are sealed so tight they don't breathe. Decades ago I was helping rebuild a stone house and the older stone mason, these houses are healthier because they breathe.