We Can Track A Letter Or Package From Beginning To Receipt.....

[global1]

The technology is there. Used by USPS, UPS, FedEx and I venture to say by most other companies that handle mail and package delivery.

We see where the item is initiated into the system; we see the touch points/handling points along the way; we see times and locations along the way; we see the final delivery or receipt of the letter or package. All through the magic of bar codes, hand scanners and computer technology.

Why aren't classified documents tracked the same way? Seems like an easy fix to me. It might be costly - but from a security standpoint - it seems worth the investment.

Seems like there's always money available to fund candidates and elections.

Why not money for the tracking and securing our classified documents?

[SheltieLover]

1. Good question.

Some are so sensitive, though, they cannot be on any lists.

Not an expert here. Just reiterating whatjttle I've read abouf those tfg stole.

[global1]

2. Not An Excuse In My Book....

the content or title of the document doesn't need to be disclosed. It could be generated with some sort of 'control number'.

Nobody knows whats in a letter or package that I send. We still track those.

[SheltieLover]

3. That's true.

Maybe time to create a dept to track holdings.

[CharleyDog]

25. I can only guess that our national security is well aware of this, therefore some people

don't want classified documents to be tracked. They want them on the loose. (Maybe these documents come in handy during the Gulf Wars/Afghanistan and perhaps leverage over "opponents/enemies" like a slush fund. Secret meetings, intrigue, we saw this with Kushner. It's like the Tudor Court plottings, human nature in politics to conspire and blackmail)

It is a good question: why aren't the documents tracked, we deserve to know WHY.
Also, how many documents were lost and found in the past...20 years. We want to know the scope of this problem.

Because if this is a rare occurrence, never before happened with a former president, and then news that the Secret Service is
loyal to Trump, this raises an eyebrow. I assume the Secret Service goes to Biden's house, and really can go anywhere, do anything they want, legal or no, only depending on their individual integrity. Cops with the license to do anything in SECRET.

Hey Kevin, go ahead investigate the FBI and tell us how many are loyal to Trump, also the Secret Service. Investigate them.
(Yeah, I know, fat chance).

[SheltieLover]

28. Interesting points you raise!

[sinkingfeeling]

4. You would have to have the system in every department and agency in the federal government and

military. There is no single source of classified materials. I think even some Congressional generated documents are classified.

[global1]

7. Agreed - Think About This....

If we created such a system - employing barcodes; scanners and computer tracking technology - and had that a part of every department and agency in the federal government and military - maybe it would be the basis for other uses - beyond tracking classified documents.

We would only be limited by our imagination as to how such a system could be used.

An example: ingress and egress of government buildings - again this would be a security measure.

I'm sure that we could be creative as to how such a system could be used.

[Genki Hikari]

33. When you ID it and give it a central authority

You make the information MORE vulnerable to being stolen or mishandled, not less. Everyone knows where to go to get an idea of what information is where.

It's decentralized now, and that protects the information more than having one central issuing agency doing it.

[Jerry2144]

5. Depending upon the classification level

yes, they are tracked. But in-progress working papers are not necessarily until printed or final. nor are the lowest-level classified documents. Most likely these were misfiled by accident by a staffer with no malicious intent. The fact that POTUS's staff voluntarily turned the documents over and are closely working with the authorities demonstrates this was not a deliberate event.

What's sad is how dishonest and criminal the Korrupt Korpulent Koprolite who left the White House in 2020 is. He's so bad that the thought of his team's planting this stuff (or Secret Service beholden to the Fatscist) seems plausible since he's so willing to commit other crimes.

[Disaffected]

23. Heh, fossilized feces.

V appropriate.

[LakeArenal]

6. Can't we just wait to see what these documents might be?

How they got there? Who put them where they were?

It seems to me, the VP himself would not likely be the one to physically put documents away.

Just as I think the documents are brought to the VP, I would think the same person would be responsible to take them once VP is done with them.

[global1]

8. Seems Like That Is What We Always Do Is 'Just Wait And See'....

I got to ask - isn't the security of our country most important - that we shouldn't put off waiting?

We learned just the other day that our computer systems in government are so outdated that one corrupted file shut down our airways.

Infrastructure in our country - goes beyond - bridges; buildings; roads; etc.

Our computer systems are critical to the security of our country. I think we've already identified our grid system vulnerability.

We need to act now and not react later.

A tracking system for classified documents could be the first step.

We've already noted that the technology is there and being used by mail and package carrier companies.

What about all the technology that is available by 'credit card' companies to track all the transactions going on 24/7. How could that technology be employed to monitor the tracking of monies to prevent fraud and other government related criminal activities.

The credit card companies can do it. Why can't we employ that technology and put it to use when like money and medical items were disbursed during the pandemic? Look at all the crookedness; fraud and criminals that gained advantage of that situation. How much did that cost us?

For Gods Sake - we have the technology; its being used successfully in other industries. Why can't we employ that same technology and use it to make our government more efficient?

[LakeArenal]

12. You said it best the infrastructure is not just roads.

Even tho bridges have been collapsing for decades, we have yet used all our great tech to secure our bridges.

We still have lead in our public schools. Should not our children be our first priority.

This thing with documents just came to light. It’s not something we knew of for years. I doubt Biden had any idea that documents weren’t secured. What is done about it remains to be seen.

But what I do know is Democrats have fought the battle of infrastructures and Republican have voted against it at every turn.

[RobinA]

9. I Was Wondering Why

when the whole thing started, somebody in the Biden camp didn't think, Gee, maybe we should look around and make sure WE aren't sitting on any hot documents. I wonder how many other classified documents are hanging out in peoples garages. Probably a lot.

[global1]

11. I Don't Think We Have The Whole Story Yet On This.....

maybe that's exactly what happened and that's how this classified material was discovered.

At any rate - when it was discovered - the Biden people did the right think in notifying and returning of these documents. Completely different than that of TFG.

[W_HAMILTON]

19. Uhh, from the reports, that's exactly what happened.

So, them thinking like you is what directly led to all of this.

[Captain Zero]

10. The post office already has the technology.

Let the archives start with that.

[Mr.Bill]

14. These are good ideas, but remember

the USPS, FedEx, UPS, etc. still lose packages every day. Their tracking system is great but not flawless.

[Silent3]

15. While such systems certainly could be adapted to classified documents, please remember...

...that the systems used by USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc., are designed for handling large quantities of documents (and packages) traveling between many fixed distribution nodes, without any great protection to prevent access to those documents by many people along the way.

Classified documents are, as far as I know, generally handed from person to person, and if they travel any distance, they travel along with a person carrying them.

You'd have to mark everything with barcodes or QR-codes and give everyone who handles these documentss scanners (or scanner apps for their phones), and train them all to scan documents in and out as they receive them or pass them along. The scanner communications would have to be designed to be incredibly secure.

It would be a bit weird (though I'm sure people could get used to it) for everyone who receives classified documents, even the President, to be expected to pull out their phone and scan a document before being allowed to take possession of the document, and to then have a further obligation to record all movement of the document while it remains in their possession.

Some of this burden, I suppose, could be reduced by (as is often done now anyway) only viewing classified documents in specific rooms, so the documents are checked in and out of rooms rather than in and out of particular people's possession.

RFID tags, with the right security protocols, could also streamline and automate this a bit, helping to fill in tracking data when people don't manually supply it themselves.

[global1]

17. Now Your Cooking....

I like the way you think and your right RFID technology might even be a better application for tracking classified documents.

If FedEx, USPS, UPS and other mail carriers can train their people to use this technology - surely government employees that handle these documents can also be trained.

Thanks for your post!!!

[Genki Hikari]

34. This is not a good idea, because once you have

a centralized authority that IDs classified information, you have just made it EASIER for bad actors to get access to information. They can tap into the centralized authority to find out who has what kind of classified documents, and then work to get them from there.

It makes classified data LESS secure, not more.

[inthewind21]

16. Yes we do

And I am currently tracking two packages that are supposed to be delivered to Nevada today. Yet one is showing it's in NJ, where it's been for 4 days and the other one is in IL, where it's been for 4 days. And neither company, UPS or FED EX can tell me where the packages actually are. What were you saying about the stellar package tracking?

[global1]

18. Looking At It In Another Way.....

the tracking you indicated is sure sending up some red flags and stimulates some immediate follow-up.

Given the classified document cases we're following in the news - seems like these classified documents got caught up and never were red flagged until somebody years later discovered them.

I still say - a tracking system like I posted - is better than what is being or not being done today with classified documents.

[jmowreader]

20. You're asking for something that is basically impossible

Let's throw out a rough number and say Some Huge Three Letter Agency has 100 million classified documents.

Some of the manuals the agencies use are decades old and just get updated as they need to be. By "update" I don't mean they send you a new manual and you shred the old one. I mean they send you the one page that has changed. You have to record the page replacement in the Change Register inside the front cover.

If you've got a book sitting there that was in the building when Ronald Reagan was still making movies, do you plan to republish the thing with bar codes at the bottom of each page? Some of those manuals don't even exist in digital format, so you'd have to completely regenerate the text so it could be laid out in something modern. And that's not to mention the millions of documents that aren't manuals that are really old.

There are document logs for when things leave the building, but logsheets only go so far.

[Botany]

21. I think "the stuff" @ Joe's place were just memos and papers for things he was working on.

And he had the security clearances to see them too.

[CharleyDog]

27. I read it was from his Vice Presidential Daily Briefing nt

[Botany]

31. Yes it was most likely from Joe's work as Vice President.

The man has worked on and been the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee and
was President Obama's expert and go to guy on all kinds of classified matters.

Unlike TFG who stole top secret documents in order to sell or trade with America's
enemies.

[liberalla]

22. That's a good suggestion. Really.

[Genki Hikari]

36. It's a terrible suggestion

Because it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what actually protects classified information.

A centralized ID authority is NOT it. If anything, having all of the information logged and numbered by a central authority makes makes the information easier to ID and target.

Limiting who has what classified information only to those who need to know it protects the information. Because it's decentralized and localized, only a very few people have access to it, and the fewer people who know about it, the less someone else will know about it. As in someone bad.

To understand why, consider this:

My military shop, in one sub-unit of a squadron, had its own little cache of classified docs. Down the hall, another shop may or may not have had their own cache, but I had no way of knowing if they had anything, never mind what. Because I wasn't allowed access to that information.

Each shop was responsible for any classified information they had, keeping track of it and securing it and all that. But ONLY the people in our shop knew what we had. Nobody else--not even the people right across the hall from us--knew. Not even the general who ran the base knew what we had--because he had no need to know. Same with the other shops in our building. I have no idea what information they may or may not have had, and that's as it should be.

This "need to know" decentralized control protects the information more than if not only our shop knew we had X information, but also some outside central authority knew what information we had, too, enough to have a bar code reference list of what we had to track it. That can make you and your entire shop a target for a bad actor to try to get the information.

[progree]

24. Copy machines. Scanners. /nt

[plimsoll]

26. I'm going to be the wet blanket.

That's a horrible idea. It's often the case that you don't need to know the actual data, but how it moves about. It's called traffic patterns analysis. During the First Gulf War the Iraqis were counting the pizza deliver boxes going to the Pentagon and were able to predict when the attack would happen.

The point with truly sensitive information is that you need to protect the information, how it moves about and who has access to it. All of those elements are essential to secure the information.

Besides lots of this information is often pretty trivial and may have differing sensitivities. Looking at it from an export perspective you probably carry stuff around with you that is sensitive from a department of commerce perspective. Even talking about it to a proscribed individual is an export.

When the stuff with Trump first hit the headlines my first questions were: How sensitive was it. It turned out to be very sensitive. My second question was that kind of information doesn't usually just walk off on it's own, it needs to have an authorized custodian release it, even to the President. It was that persons responsibility to inform the person taking possession of the information about custody requirements and how to secure the information. Finally when it broke the question everyone has been asking is "Why didn't he just return it when asked?" It's that last item which needs to be questioned, Trump could easily have mistakenly taken sensitive document with him. I think that would not be unheard of, and Trump doesn't seem to be a particularly organized person so it would probably be like even. The cover up is suspicious, and should be making everyone ask what else is there and who did he give it to?

[Caliman73]

29. Shipping and Classified Documents are completely separate things.

When we mail or ship an item, we typically send it to a hub. We take it into the store or the Post Office where it is turned in and marked for its destination.

Anyone in government can create a classified document, or declare a document to be classified. The system is completely decentralized and monitored within each department.

Also, mail and packages get lost ALL THE TIME. I have been waiting for a package for several days not that was supposed to be in last week. Amazon is telling me I should try cancelling the product because they don't know where it is.

The reason why this is a big news story right now is because we had a criminally minded idiot in the presidency and he literally stole documents and refused to give them back.

I am willing to bet that every President and administration had documents that were mistakenly taken or they didn't know they had. They likely found them, contacted the proper people, and resolved the matter without fanfare.

It is kind of like how when you are working somewhere and taking coffee breaks is on the honor system, until some asshole gets caught taking 2 hours breaks and stealing the coffee out of the vending machine and the company has to crack down on everyone, instead of just firing the asshole to was breaking the rules.

[Phoenix61]

30. Some "documents" are computer files that can be printed out.

There are an unlimited number of copies. How do you bar code that?

[PufPuf23]

32. In the military and government, us common folk are often not meant to know this information.

We are outside the bounds of security (and tribal self-interests).

Not sure if this is even legal but obviously fact because the pattern is so common.

Recall during GWB when the military lost track of IIRC trillions.

Note the system is also not so hot on tracking sources and uses of monies to politicians.

To reiterate, the documents, political donations, etc. can be readily tracked given common technology.

Why not?

Which is your question.