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H2O Man

(75,210 posts)
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 03:06 PM Jan 2023

Nuance and Snakes

"Television is apparently the enemy of nuance. But nuance is essential for a thoughtful discussion." -- Barney Frank

Rep. Frank was one of my favorite politicians while serving in the House from 1981 to 2013. I cannot say for sure, of course, but I suspect that today he would include the internet as among the enemies of nuance. I shall keep this in mind as I offer my opinion on the classified documents that were not returned by then Vice President Biden.

There are three groups worthy of consideration: Democrats, republicans, and independents. On this forum, I have read a variety of opinions ranging from it is not a big deal, to it was sloppy and may create an irritation if not issue, to it might be the result of underhanded agents loyal to Trump. I find this encouraging, perhaps in part because I disagree with many of the opinions expressed on the issue. And another enemy of nuance is the groupthink often associated with efforts for solidarity.

I like and support President Biden. Along with Kennedy and Obama, he is one of the most influential presidents of my lifetime. No president or vice president is perfect, and every one of them will make errors. More, as the sign on Truman's desk read, "The Buck Stops Here." Even some of the mistakes made by aides become entrenched in a president's reputation -- as Nixon learned.

In my opinion -- of no more value than the next person's -- it was sloppy and will likely be a problem, not in the DOJ criminal investigation, but in the social-political atmosphere as we approach 2024. The "no big deal" mindset strikes me as unrealistic. Any time classified documents are removed, knowingly or unknowingly, it is as issue. Hopefully, no Democrat thinks that what happened in this case is okay. And to think many republicans will understand nuance would be an error.

It may be tempting to think that since the most awful of maga candidates lost in the 2022 elections, the republican party is on the road to recovery. It's not. Those who lost were primarily those running on the Trump platform that the 2020 election was stolen. But those intent upon "investigating" Hunter Biden's laptop, Anthony Fauci, the Attorney General and the President gained enough seats to control the House. And they will seek to exploit this issue.

This is true, even if a criminal investigation into the mishandling of classified documents concludes that there was no criminal intent, hence no prosecutions. The glaring example of the damage that even that can do is, of course, the 2016 presidential election. Many people blame James Comey for Trump's victory, and there is merit to this. In July, Comey told a press conference that although Secretary Clinton and her top aides had been "extremely careless," there would be no legal charges.

Then, on October 28, Comey notified members of Congress that the case was being re-opened. Within minutes, republicans shared this information with the media. No sane person could argue that Comey's move influenced the outcome of the election. However, having evidence that classified documents were found on the laptop of Huma Abedin's husband Anthony Weiner, showed they were not only found on the Clinton's private server. (I note that it was the NYC FBI agents that suddenly found these. For years on this forum, I have noted that there is a cluster of politically ultra-conservative agents there.)

I think it is an error to think the farce from picking a Speaker suggests there is a level of bitter in-fighting among republicans that renders them impotent for the next two years. I do agree that they will engage in zero meaningful efforts to promote the social good. For they are all rattlesnakes. There are different regional species in our country -- the timber, the prarie, and the dimondback -- and one might quarrel with another. But they are all republican rattlesnakes, and they will sink their fangs into this.

Speaking figuratively, if there is a rattlesnake out on my lawn, threatening to bite people, I'm going to get my ax and cut its head off. If there are some republican milk snakes out there, I'm not interested in taking the time to evaluate. Off with their heads. "Thoughts and prayers." Same thing here. If republicans try to compare this case with the Trump case, I think it is better to say that both were sloppy. Both are wrong. I'll avoid trying to say "no big deal" in the Biden case. But to then point out nuance -- which one was simply a sloppy error versus which one involved a deliberate attempt to cover up stolen documents. One is a big deal, and one is a big crime. Just my opinion.

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Nuance and Snakes (Original Post) H2O Man Jan 2023 OP
Very well said Easterncedar Jan 2023 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2023 #2
Indeed Timewas Jan 2023 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Jan 2023 #4
K&R spanone Jan 2023 #5
Exactly. H2O Man Jan 2023 #8
We deal in nuance - while Repugs deal in full-color hallucinations peppertree Jan 2023 #6
Right. H2O Man Jan 2023 #10
Good point peppertree Jan 2023 #13
One is a big deal. One is a big crime. paleotn Jan 2023 #7
As someone who H2O Man Jan 2023 #11
Excellent OP malaise Jan 2023 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2023 #12

Easterncedar

(3,284 posts)
1. Very well said
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 03:24 PM
Jan 2023

I appreciated your take, as ever, H2O Man. Well reasoned and clearly stated. What an excellent writer you are, if I may say so.

H2O Man

(75,210 posts)
2. Thank you!
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 03:44 PM
Jan 2023

That is very nice of you to say, and much appreciated. After writing this as I drank my morning coffee, I hesitated to post it, as I wondered if I was the only person who viewed it this way.

peppertree

(22,838 posts)
6. We deal in nuance - while Repugs deal in full-color hallucinations
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 05:24 PM
Jan 2023

And they know that, like children, their voters love full-color things - no matter how insane.

H2O Man

(75,210 posts)
10. Right.
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 02:21 PM
Jan 2023

I suspect that bright colors grab their attention because they usually only see in black & white.

peppertree

(22,838 posts)
13. Good point
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 04:36 PM
Jan 2023

Racially - and in the sense there are no gray areas for them.

Which would explain why they're so detached from reality - as the world is full of them.

paleotn

(18,994 posts)
7. One is a big deal. One is a big crime.
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 05:41 PM
Jan 2023

That is unless the first part of the equation above is a setup. Not saying it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

H2O Man

(75,210 posts)
11. As someone who
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 02:31 PM
Jan 2023

grew up in the 1960s - '70s, I tend to question everything. Quite a few very important things were not what they appeared to be, at least at first. So I don't rule out that this might possibly be some type of set up -- which would itself be both a big deal and a big crime. But I think it is far more likely to have been a case of "sloppy." Indeed, "sloppy" is often an attribute of a large bureaucracy. And that in itself is why many of the crimes that Trump et al engaged in went unnoticed at the time, for such a system is ripe for abuse. Indeed, as the years pass, we will learn more and more about the Trump crime family.

H2O Man

(75,210 posts)
12. Thank you!
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 02:35 PM
Jan 2023

I'm 100% confident that I can adequately defend President Biden, not by claiming that he is perfect and has never made a mistake, but by putting any error on his part in proper context and then focusing upon all the Good that the man has done in a long political career, capped off with his presidency.

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