Before we discuss fixing the classified document tracking system, we need to consider . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

. . . . who writes and then classifies them in the first place. Who decides to whom they're distributed? How do the National Archives know the docs exist and who has them?

The system needs to be reformed, for sure. Doing so in a way that hinders the distribution of critical information is dead wrong, however.

This is not in any way shape or form a simple issue and it is possible we're doing the best we can.

[WA-03 Democrat]

1. Even the school library

Had a checkout card. Maybe we setup the Blockbuster Video software to remind people to return stuff that should never have been taken out in the first place?

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Before that can work . . . .

. . . . how does this Blockbuster software know a document exists?

Classified documents are created widely in all federal agencies. More in some than others, but they all do it.

[WA-03 Democrat]

4. The Blockbuster checkout

Database just recorded who got what and when. I was just reference a database. I just can't imagine not tracking an assets. If it's important and of value one must know where it is. They knew trump took a bunch of stuff so some form of record keeping capability must exist. If someone takes a document that is special and secret there is a number associated with the document set. I have worked on a few government projects and got a low security clearance. Taking home anything was never an option and told we'd be in big trouble if we did. If a system exists run it and send out overdue notices perhaps but in my opinion stuff should not leave a controlled security area. Maybe this got "optional" during the trump years.

[dsc]

5. part of the reason they new is that Trump went public with many of the things he stole

for example the letters to and from Kim.

[bottomofthehill]

3. There is a whole host of people who can classify documents

The President, the VP, agency heads, Classification officials…. There are a host of agencies, people in those agencies, the responsibility really lies with the person receiving the materials. They person must act in a responsible manner. People who receive secure docs should have a security officer who tracks and is responsible for their return.

[zipplewrath]

6. Not sure everyone understands how this works

Anyone who knows classified information can create a classified document, or file, by merely writing it down.

And classified information comes in all forms. Paper documents, electronic files, photos, videos, audio recordings, and physical equipment can all be "classified". And you might be astounded at how much of this exists.

I suspect that much of what Biden had was classified as "working papers", i.e. classified documents that were meant to be destroyed soon after them being used. No one knew they existed except for the creator and the person using it.

The real solution here is that the rules be followed. No co-mingling of classified and unclassified documents. Classified documents are returned to proper storage IMMEDIATELY after use. Working papers are destroyed in the proper time frame. And honestly, an office like the VP or the oval needs a security officer whose sole duty is to regularly monitor the use and storage of classified information. Regular inspections and inventories need to be conducted. And when an office is closing down, THEY handle the packing and shipping of the classified storage.

[Scrivener7]

10. Not sure it matters whether we here understand how it works.

What we do understand is that the current system or lack of system clearly isn't working.

What people seem to be saying is that there is no entity responsible for enforcing those rules. And the result is that some of our most sensitive national secrets ended up next to the pool room in a hotel owned by a man who thinks treason is just fine.

So yes, all your suggestions need to be followed. But they won't be if there is no entity responsible for seeing that they are followed.

This system, clearly, isn't working. It needs to be changed.

[zipplewrath]

12. No rules will work

IF they aren't followed.

As long as a president has the power to "run" things in the Oval, rules aren't gonna matter.

[Scrivener7]

13. No rules are followed if they aren't enforced.

[KentuckyWoman]

7. The vast majority of docs that end up where they don't belong

aren't even missing. There are some departments that classify everything by process. The shear volume of dumb stuff that doesn't need to be classified can end clipped behind or shuffled in with non-classified materials.

I have absolute faith whatever ended up where it didn't belong, Biden wise, was pure accident. I can't imagine the volume of materials a POTUS or VP team handles every day, let alone at move out time. I don't doubt every single admin in recent history has had to return docs that Archives didn't even know existed. I would expect it happens to Pentagon, WH and high level congressional staff more often that we realize.

Once the investigation is over, I'd like to see Biden spearhead a real conversation about better ways to make sure things don't accidentally wander off that no one is even missing. Not to mention making sure docs are returned where they should be that actually matter. Melania's closet is not where they belong.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Cogent and well said.

Thank you!

[ripcord]

9. They need to hold everyone equally responsible for mishandling classified documents

They penalty for the lowest scale government worker or enlisted military should be they same as for the higher ups and even our nation's leaders.

[CharleyDog]

11. Maybe in the past it was always, "the best we can" but after sociopath Trump

as president, and possible future criminal presidents, we MUST now, do better.

We need to consider our own president would commit treason with our secrets and re-think the WHOLE system.

[Genki Hikari]

14. Oh good grief

Classified information gets distributed to THOSE WHO NEED TO KNOW IT. You don't give classified data about Trident missiles to a State Department attache. You give it to the person who's working with Trident missiles, no one else.

Simple, huh?

That system works beautifully, 99.9999% of the time.

Really.

The National Archives will know about any of classified information existing if they have a need to know it, say, to comply with the Presidential Records Act.

My guess about how PRA compliance works (or is supposed to) is that incoming classified information is logged by someone within the administration when it's received. Then they are supposed to either burn the info or return it to its origin, with records noting such. Some classified data may be created in-house, and there's would be a log for that, too, for compliance with the PRA. Similar to the outside info coming in, that information either has to be burned, or given over to NARA.

It's also my guess that NARA goes by the incoming/generated lists when determining what records they should have. From those, they expect to see if each item on a list was destroyed, sent back, or neither of the above. That's why it takes them a while to sort out what they have versus what they're missing. A lot of paperwork gets handled and generated in any office over 4-8 years, so it's not a surprise NARA doesn't know right away what, if anything, is missing.

The system for handling/tracking classified information IN THE WHITE HOUSE needs reforming. The vast majority of people who deal with classified information, and that is probably tens of millions of government employees and military members, handle it properly.

[Genki Hikari]

15. Oh--and who creates classified data

Can be anyone working with something classified. From CIA analysts creating reports about undercover field operations to whoever writes the many millions of technical manuals for classified processes and equipment maintenance.

Someone upthread said that all paperwork generated in some agencies automatically gets classified. It wouldn't surprise me (:::cough::: CIA :::cough::: ), but that's not as common as one would think. If everything in, say, the military was classified, then everything would grind to a halt because complying with the classified processes for everything would be a major PITA.

So some of the letters I typed up for my idiot superior in the military who could barely master hunt-and-peck--that didn't need to be classified. Some of it might have private info about a particular person in the shop, but it wasn't a national security issue. So it wasn't classified. That would be stupid.

But there was stuff that I typed up for the idiot and sent out that had to be classified, because that stuff related to classified matters. There was a process we had to follow for complying with generating it and then insuring that it went through secure channels to its destination.

The idiot and I were flunkies, but every now and then, we were technically "creators" of classified data, out of necessity.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Good grief

Of course there is a system. Duh.

The issue is it ain't werkin' . . . . .