Stalking

[H2O Man]

“Stalking someone you had a past with is nothing but self-torture and people who love themselves don't hurt themselves.”
― Sarvesh Jain


"Stalking" is apparently an issue in the Idaho case. Cell phone records indicate that the killer had been in the neighborhood near the victims' house at least twelve times leading up to the murders, was nearby at the time of the crime, and returned again approximately five hours later. There were also previous reports that one of the victims thought she was being stalked. As a result, some experts from various fields have stated it is likely the murderer had encountered one or more of his victims in the past.

Since stalking is an all too common problem -- usually involving a man stalking a woman -- I thought I'd provide some information on the three primary types of stalking. These are distinct from a junior high student with a crush on a girl, lacking the confidence to approach her to attempt to strike up a conversation, and instead following from a distance. Yet, this might be considered a 4th type, at the lowest end of the risk scale.

The next type, which often results in police and/or mental health interventions, involves the guy who just cannot accept that "she" broke up with him. This can be in the context of dating, living together, or married couples. Generally, the guy thinks that if she will only listen to him beg for another chance, thinngs will work out just dandy.

Next, we find the type where the man seeks to intimidate the women. Like the last example, this fellow wants to be seen. But he is looking to scare the woman he is stalking. He fully intends for his action to be viewed as threatening. In general, we can identify the increasing dangers that each one poses. This in no sense means there are not violent junior high students, or guys who think, "If I can't have her, no one can." But intimifation stalkers are more prone to doing anything from violating orders of protection, popping car tires, or physical assaults.

The last type is what took place in Idaho. It is known as predatory stalking. While it may involve someone who thought, for example, his prey insulted him somewhere that she may not be aware of, it is frequently a complete stranger. The only connection exists exclusively between the stalker's ears. By no coincidence, this type has a close relationship with cases or rape and/or murder. The BTK killer comes to mind.

Predatory stalkers are best understood as very much like other animals that stalk prey. One could view them as similar to both felidae and lizards. Indeed, it appears that in these men, their "lizard brain" is calling many of their behaviors. More, they tend to increase their staking behaviors over time.

Thus, some experts expect that the Idaho murderer's defense team will argue that his DNA could have been found as a result of his attending a party there. I'd say perhaps in their opening or closing statements, but it seems unlikely they will find anyone who would testify to that. Including him.

Although it is extremely unlikely we will ever know, one thing that the evidence seems to point to is that he had snuck into the house previously, when everyone was sleeping. The timing of his cell phone pings show he was in the neighborhood late at night on several occasions. Just as the Manson family engaged in "creepy crawling," for example, late night break-ins are not uncommon before this time of murder.

[Saoirse9]

1. So terrifying to think of those poor girls knowing there was someone stalking

and not being able to prove it, then the monster shows up . . . .

I had a minor problem with a stalker when I lived alone in Brooklyn many years ago. I never took it seriously and it stopped when I started dating my first husband. It was a cop. I had called cops because of scary phone calls I was getting and got very friendly with two of the policemen. At first when one of them showed up unexpectedly I felt safe, protected. But then he asked me out, was more than twice my age, and I had a hard time coming up with excuses why I shouldn't go out with him. I made up a fake boyfriend, so when I started dating M he bought my excuse and stopped coming around. I mean it was a cop. I was 19. He had a lot of power and I had none. Could have been bad if he were so inclined.

I love your posts you know I do but this one will probably give me a nightmare.

[H2O Man]

3. Thank you!

In my opinion, a lot of girls & women have endured having someone stalk them at some point. It is a sensitive subject, and I attempted to detail the different types in a way that wouldn't upset our Good Friends here -- knowing that it is certain that some have had this unsettling experience. The reports on this case frequently mention stalking, and I'm sure it brings up bad memories.

I hope that you have sweet dreams tonight. And not have nightmares about being forced to read my long and boring essays. But if by chance it is a bad dream about a stalker, look to your left, and you will see me coming to beat the tar out of him.

[Saoirse9]

9. No nightmare!

But it’s a good idea to remind women to trust their instincts. If you think you’re being followed you probably are.

I had nice dreams.

[H2O Man]

12. That's good!

When I trained mental health workers in "community crisis response" -- which at the time often involved mental health workers, but has become primarily a lawn enforcement task -- the first thing I would say was to survey the landscape before getting out of the car. In upstate New York, there were a lot of isolated, lonely places we were called to. In cases where we determined police were required, there could be a long wait. Quite a few times, the people with me expressed surprise at the list of things I looked for, I suppose because the average person doesn't look for them in normal situations. But having a gun pointed at you by an angry person just one time can change one's expectations of "normal," I think.

Combine that survey of surroundings with the information from the call that resulted in your going to this home. That is, of course, an intellectual exercise. But at least as important -- and often more important -- is to trust your gut feelings.

[Saoirse9]

26. Maybe it is posted elsewhere in the thread

but . . . before I get out of the car, what am I looking for?

[MontanaMama]

2. All great points H2O Man.

I dealt with a stalker between December of 1990 and April of 1996. Back then, cell phones were almost nonexistent. There was no caller ID where I live until spring of 1996. My stalker never made himself known to me. To this day I still don’t know who he was. He called two or three nights a week in the middle of the night just to let me know that he knew where I was, and what I had been doing that day. Sometimes he would call my workplace when he knew I was the last person to leave the office. He would leave messages on my answering machine that he’d seen me at the grocery store and would comment on the things he had seen me buy. When my engagement announcement was in the newspaper, he left a message to say that he might swing up to the venue to see me in my wedding dress and maybe introduce himself. It was incredibly stressful, and I was scared all the time. I made several police reports about it but back then, there were no stalking laws in Montana, and the police told me that, unless, and until he assaulted me or worse, there was nothing that they could do.

In 1993, I purchased a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver and began to train with a certified instructor. I took basic handgun training and worked hard over the next three years, finally graduating in combat training. I learned how to clear my own house.

One night, I came home from work to find my front door slightly ajar and called the police to help me. They wouldn’t come without evidence that the house had been burglarized. My husband was out of town so I had to deal with it on my own. It’s just how it was back in the day. It may have been this nut creeping in my house, I don’t know. It might have been my mistake…but I doubt it.

I’ve been following the Idaho murders closely. The suspect is a full on psychopath in my opinion. He was, by all the accounts that have been made public, a stalker. They get off on stalking their prey. Women are their prey. I hope he never sees the light of day, ever.

[H2O Man]

4. Very interesting!

First of all, thank you for your response. And I promise not to go on and on in my response, although there are so many important points you raise.

Per the door ..... obviously, I don't know the answer ..... but I do know that stalkers who focus on terrifying their victims will do things like leaving a door ajar and/or opening a window, to demonstrate that they have the ability to strike when they know you are not home. A related tactic for late night intruders, when the residents are asleep, is to move some furniture. Thus, even if you might have left it that way, there is no valid reason for the police to have not responded.

I agree the Idaho murderer has psychopathic features. His history suggests that it is a real possibility, even a likelihood, that this is the correct diagnosis. Yet there is another potential possibility ..... it is possible that he has two other diagnoses that, at times, not only can mimic psychopathy, but have a curious history of being in play when a killer prefers a knife to a gun. I have discussed this with a few people who are not on DU, but hesitate to do so here ..... lots of very good people have one or both of those conditions, and pose zero danger to family, friends, or the public at large.

One of my friends I talked to about that reads my posts on DU. She reminded me to tell people to always be aware of their surroundings. In the past, I've mentioned that in the context of situations like pulling into a grocery store's parking lot, as there are maga types with chips on their shoulders. It's something that I taught my kids to do since they were young. Not to be paranoid, but to be alert and aware.

Again, thank you!

[MontanaMama]

5. Again YOU raise excellent points.

Last edited Tue Jan 17, 2023, 11:33 PM - Edit history (1)

First I will say that you are correct in that stalkers will often try to terrify their prey by disrupting their surroundings just slightly to make it known that they are in control and they’re “there”. It is a very effective technique. After my door was left ajar, I called a locksmith and had the locks changed. I will tell you that I know in my soul I didn’t leave the door unlocked.

Second, a large part of my firearms training involved my instructor sending me into a room, or the training house to identify what had changed since the last time I’d been there…all of the students did this. The idea was to develop our observation skills…and that it did.

Third, my instructor taught me not to waste time while shopping for groceries or standing in line at the pharmacy or wherever. Stalkers hide in plain sight….my job is to always be looking around and noticing people and things that weren’t quite right. Always be acutely aware of your surroundings. It might save your life. When somebody is talking you, it’s not a joke.

Fourth, when I was sent into a training house to “clear” it…there were targets moving all over and popping up everywhere. My job was to evaluate threats and take them out based on what they looked like and the weapons they carried. Always take out a knife wielding opponent before one holding a gun. Always.

I hope your OP helps someone.

[H2O Man]

13. Thank you!

I had an "early night" last night. I had taken the dog out after dark, and I fell hard on the ice, and was pretty darned sore. Indeed, I experienced trouble getting back to my feet, and will say that having an excited dog dancing on me was not helpful! Ha!

Any how, as I was laying down inside the house -- with the dog comfortably resting on my feet -- I was thinking about this topic. And about our conversation about you door. About how these types of things are forms of psychological manipulation -- also known as mental torture, at least in my book -- where the victim tends to doubt themselves, even to the point where they think others will consider them confused or paranoid if they say what they think. An example could be the police failure to respond to a call about an ahar door.

Now, I'm old. I've heard my kids who are social workers talk about "gas lighting." I can't remember if I ever heard that back in the days that I was employed. But when I was laying there, thinking about this, I thought it applied. So I got up and habbled to my computer, and looked up "gas lighting." It makes getting older more fun when you learn something new every day!

[MontanaMama]

21. I hope you're okay!

Falling on the ice is awful.

[H2O Man]

23. Thanks!

I'm fine. Sore as heck, but that's to be expected. Long gone are the days when injuries seemed to disappear in a short time. I'm normally very careful, and haven't fallen much lately.

[Saoirse9]

11. Golly I had the same experience

With phone calls. My guy wasn’t as detailed as yours so he probably wasn’t following me. Early 1990s.

He used to leave voicemails like “Merry Christmas Saoirse” or “Happy Easter Saoirse” and one time “fuck you Saoirse”.

And I knew the voice. It was so familiar but I couldn’t place it. Stopped when caller ID came out.

When did yours stop?

[H2O Man]

15. Long ago,

when as a single father raising two young sons, we lived in an apartment. Not my favorite type of abode, but due to circumstances, we lived there for a while. It exposed me to situations outside of those from work experience.

A frustrating experience was hearing a "neighbor" beat the hell out of his girlfriend or wife. In one case, the couple had a young child, and in the other, the woman was pregnant. When we called police, in each case, the women refused to press charges, even denying there had been so much as an argument.

A number of the guys in the buildings (there were two, same landlord, same lawn) had recently separated from their wives/ girl friends, and in most cases, there were children involved. Soon we had informal group discussions about such things as the rights and responsibilities of fathers, and dispute resolution with the former partner.

Eventually, my downstairs neighbor invited a co-worker who began coming around. He began to make the rest of us uncomfortable. Nothing he said suggested he had any desire to be a responsible parent, though he fought like hell to get custody. He had zero interst in conflict resolution. His primary form of communication was threats in private, and feigning being a pleasant fellow in family court.

In my journals, I noted that he had a fascination with knives. I don't think he had a gun at the time, but he talked a lot about his hunting knife collection. Before I could suggest that he stop coming over to hang out with us, he was arrested and incarcerated for making a series of threatening phone calls to one of his teenaged stepdaughters. In the months to come, I would have a few conversations with both police and a forensic psychologist that were dealing with him. He eventually came to a sad end, which likely made a lot of people happy.

[MontanaMama]

20. Wow. Your post gave me chills, Saoirse.

My stalker's voice was very familiar as well...maybe it was because he had been calling me for years. Very similar to your situation, myy stalker stopped calling at the end of April 1996...as soon as caller ID became available in my town. I don't know if he stopped watching me then or not but the calls definitely stopped then. I had to look back in my journal to be sure. I got caller ID the minute that it was a thing but before that, I stopped using an answering machine so that he couldn't leave messages.

[Saoirse9]

27. My stalker used my nickname

which is a shortening of my name, like calling me Sersh instead of Saorise. Not many people used my nickname but he did. He knew me! Merry Christmas Sersh. Fuck you Sersh. He had kind of a Sam Elliot voice and I *knew* that voice. I just could never remember from where.

I used to think he must know me from the gym because back then I practically lived there. I would meet a lot of local people and talk briefly. But I would have introduced myself using my full name, not the nickname.
When caller ID finally did come in and I bought a machine, the number that called me was a plumbing company. I never used a plumber and didn't know anyone from that company. I think I called them but it's been so long I can't remember. I know I called the police and gave them the number and they laughed it off. He never called again.

Has always been a mystery, that caller stalker. At the time I lived in an old mansion that had been converted into apartments and an office. Office was downstairs and I lived upstairs. I had the whole 2nd floor, 4 bedrooms and a living room. I had roommates, always male, in and out for the 5 years I lived there. The stalker was calling during a time that I lived alone. Over a two year period I think. A roommate moved in around the time the calls stopped. But when I was alone, that was a huge house to be scared in, with a dozen good hiding places.

[MontanaMama]

29. I relayed your post to my husband just now...

He reminded me that my stalker also used my nickname. It sounds crazy but I had forgotten that. Nobody calls me by that name but family and people I know well. Even my husband didn’t use that name for me until very recently. My husband always thought my stalker was someone I knew.

[Saoirse9]

30. So creepy isn't it?

Thank God in both cases we didn’t get physically hurt.

But in both cases we never found out the identity of the stalker.

Chicken shits. Hiding behind a phone. To scared to confront us directly.

[Warpy]

6. I'm not convinced this was stalking

which is a mental illness wherin the stalker hangs a person's face on his delusional state and fantasy of a perfect romance. It can involve anyone from a casual date to someone at a McD's drive through to somebody on TV or in a movie or on a concert stage. It quickly deteriorates into vandalism and violence because the person being stalked has no access to the stalker's script and wouldn't follow it if s/he did. Stalkers also won't stop until they are stopped.

Stalkers are sick, something that has been seriously muddied by Hollywood's shitty romcom tropes. There is nothing remotely romantic about being stalked, it can ruin your life very quickly. Even when antistalking laws are in place, cops don't like to take it seriously because it has been portrayed as something romantic by Hollywood. It is not. It gets dangerous quickly. Whether this was stalking or a thrill killing, the cops most likely didn't take it seriously, "well, he didn't hurt you/steal your shit, nothing to see here get a dog/buy a gun." Stalkers need an involuntary commitment and treatment, chemically banishing the delusions so therapy has a chance.

This sounds more like a control trip/thrill killing/ attempt at the perfect crime, ice cold and calculated. Stalker killings are usually sloppy and poorly thought out. The stalker doesn't leave the scene in some cases, proud of his work and feeling justified.

Stalkers generally pick just one person at a time, not four of them, which is another way this doesn't fit the mold.

Either way, this guy is a sicko and needs to be medicated into the Thorazine shuffle for the rest of his life.

(I was stalked years ago and my case was cited when this state got its antistalking statute. I had to stop him by myself. He died a few years ago, I had nothing to do with it)

[H2O Man]

8. Stalking is a behavior,

of course, rather than a mental illness. It is possible that a stalker has a major mental illness, but stalking is a behavior that generally fits into the Cluster B personality disorders, which are characterized by thinking and behaviors.

In the Idaho case, the suspect's thinking included a fascination with mass and serial killers. In his studies at college, he came up with the now infamous survey for criminals to describe in detail their thinking and behaviors before, during, and after they committed their crimes. His top professor was Katherine Ramsland, the internationally known criminologist who studied mass and serial murderers. Her best known work was on the BTK killer.

Predatory stalking is not limited to identifying one victim, most obviously in cases where a person is looking to kill more than one person. Now, a mass murderer often plans to die at the scene of their crime -- think of most school/ public shooters -- although they may experience second thoughts. Still, a significant number don't even wait for police, and kill themselves. This is where some of the key dynamics associated with predatory stalking are important. Like the other public shootings, the killer has identified a "soft target." I will suggest that a house of all female residents is generally a softer target than a house full of males. And there is more.

A predator looks for a safe exit from their attack. There is a huge distinction between stalkers who want their victims to know they are being stalked, and those who are fully intent upon not being identified. An obvious example is the BTK killer, who had done surveillance to identify victims he believed to be soft targets, and was familiar with the locations in a manner that allowed him to both strike and exit without notice. That applies to the Idaho killer as well, as the late hours that he was in that neighborhood previously shows -- as does the number of times he circled around the house in the hour or so before the murders.

I agree that he was attempting to commit the "perfect crime." In fact, I'll take it a step further, and say he wanted to commit the perfect crime, that would shock the nation, and remain a mystery. Killing one person doesn't fit that bill. Picking a random house that he is unfamiliar with -- who resides there, and likely the lay-out -- does not fit at all.

Finally, before I ramble on too long here, you are correct that a stalker usually picks one victim. In the first three types I mentioned in the OP, that is almost always the case. The only exception that comes to mind is when an unstable person has an unhealthy belief that, say, the house they grew up in actually "belongs" to them, not the people that bought it. This is an example where both a house and person/people may be the target.

[Warpy]

14. Again, we disasgree

While you've focused on the behavior, I've focused on the profoundly delusional state that provokes it. There are two ways to stop the behavior: prison and antipsychotic drugs. The person is incapable of stopping the behavior because the delusion makes the behavior set compulsive, they can't stop it, and that's rather a defining characteristic of mental illness.

Stalking can go on for years and years if a stalker is not stopped by prison or medication and treatment.

The Idaho case doesn't look like classic stalking to me, but I'm sitting here in NM and I don't read sensationalized news, so what do I know? The killer just seems too cold and calculating to be a stalker. I hope he has a long career in prison getting his brain picked by FBI psychiatrists.

[H2O Man]

16. I don't think we disagree on that much.

I'm simply using the mental health and law enforcement definitions, which are dar more expansive on the types of stalking and the actual mental states associated with it. This includes the fact that it rarely involves psychosis, and hence is not a type of thinking or behavior that is treated with medications successfully -- if at all.

Prison is indeed required in some cases. But most are going to result in a relatively brief incarceration in county jail. Indeed, that proves successful in many cases. The understanding that breaking a law is very likely to result in legal consequences is more of a deterrent than the possibility of a extremely harsh consequence. These are facts a person may disagree with for whatever reason, yet they remain true.

I'm not one to watch "sensationalized news," either. But I do take an interest in psychology and the legal system. I suppose that is due, at least in part, to my career before retiring, and having a wide variety of law enforcement as uncles and cousins. Also, because one of his daughters recently had attended that university, the Idaho murders are something that he and I discuss. And I've even gone so far as to get out a book on one uncle, a legendary detective who did trainings for the FBI and CIA on crime scene analysis. Also a few old articles from newspapers, before the internet, including one in which experts called him the best detective in the country. He recently died, or else I'd be having conversations with him. I'll continue to leave "sensationalized news" to those who mistakenly think they understand the topics involved.

[wnylib]

7. I was stalked by my first husband when I left him.

He was controlling and abusive. I moved in with a co-worker who was a couple years older than me and had once been in an abusive marriage herself. She also had a very protective German shepherd.

My ex dropped in on us often, always unannounced, and demanded the right to visit and try to reconcile. He was unable or unwilling to comprehend that I left him because of that kind of behavior. He was convinced that there was another man and that his surprise visits would catch me with him.

Whenever my roommate and I went grocery shopping, to a laundromat, or stopped anyplace on the way home from work, he called when we got home to tell me where we had been and for how long.

My attorney refused to take this behavior seriously. He kept saying that it was normal for a man to be upset over the end of his marriage and told me that my husband would cool off after a while. But he got worse. The stalking escalated to physically choking me one time when he found me home alone. Our next door neighbor knew the situation and watched out for me. He came over just in time with his 3 Dobermans. Another time, the ex pulled a gun on me during my lunch hour and held me hostage in his car for 3 hours to "discuss reconciliation."
I managed to stay calm and convinced him to take me back to the office or else my boss and roommate would call the police.

My attorney finally saw the reality when my ex showed up at the courthouse for my divorce hearing. He had not responded when served divorce papers so he had no legal standing at the hearing, which was held in a courthouse conference room with a master instead of a judge since it was uncontested and routine. Several times during the hearing he tried to interrupt and intimidate me with loud throat clearing, knuckle rapping on the table, coughs, etc. My attorney and the master finally threatened him with removal and contempt if he made another sound.

He was definitely the kind of stalker in the OP that decided if he couldn't have me, no one could. He told me that in those exact words on the steps of the courthouse when I left. No matter how long it took, he said that some day he would kill me.

Even after I remarried and moved out of state, I learned that he was trying to track me down. When my mother told me 8 years later that he had died, I felt relief.

That experience taught me to always be aware of my surroundings and people and things that look suspicious.

[H2O Man]

10. That's a good example

of the terrible situations that this type of shitstain creates. I'm glad that you got out of it. And I can't help but add that a good German shepherd is a great resource in such a situation. They are highly intelligent, and capable of knowing if someone has good or bad intentions. At least that's my experience.

When couples are splitting up, we know that there is the highest risk for women. Tensions remain high if any one of three factors are in play. The first two are children and resources, such as joint property. The third is when a fellow thinks/says, "If she would just listen to me ....." No, sir, she has listened to you for years, and no longer wants to hear your voice or see your face or feel your touch.That last line is one I used when my job placed that type of guy in my office.

Unfortunately, that becomes the point in which some men become extremely frustrated, and fully invested in the "if I can't have her" bit. And that is always dangerous. Very dangerous.

I'm glad that you are out of that situation. And mighty glad that you are here, in the DU community!

[wnylib]

17. Thanks, H2O Man. There were several other

incidents during that period of separation and divorce,.
One was a follow on the evening after the gun hostage incident. My roommate and the dog came to my rescue that time. I would not have survived without the help of friends and family. Even my ex's friends went to bat for me, trying to convince him to let go.

I met him in high school and began dating him right after a long term relationship had ended. My ego and confidence were bruised at the time and I was naive enough to believe that his attention and possessiveness were romantic, thanks to Hollywood, TV, and books.

He believed that being a husband conferred rights and entitlements on him. There was one occasion before I left him when I ended up in the ER. The ER doctor brought the police in to investigate. He squared off against two cops when they told him to leave the room and said that, as my husband, he was entitled to remain. He left only when they threatened him with arrest and charges of interfering in an investigation. But, before leaving, he bent close to "kiss" my cheek and whispered in my ear that I was dead if I told the cops what had happened.

I was 20 years old and too afraid to tell the cops the truth.
To their credit and my eternal gratitude, they understood and convinced me that I had to leave or he would some day kill me. There were no domestic violence shelters then. They gave me concrete advice on how to plan for and carry out leaving him. They said that they recognized from their experience that he had the type of attitude and behavior that spouse killers possess.

So, I had a lot of help which, unfortunately, too many people lack in those kinds of situations.

[H2O Man]

18. Once again, you raise

a key point -- two closely related ones, actually -- that I want to thank you for.

Abusive people try to isolate their victim. It often can start with separating them from family and friends, and co-workers outside of the job site. This can escalate to the type of gas lighting that is discussed elsewhere in the general discuss on this OP/posts. And it includes the threats you mention.

It is important to have outside support. One of my supervisors at the clinic gave the example of when one attempts to put a cat in a box. He said the victim has to resist being put in the isolation of that box, by using a coordinated effort much as that cat does with its four feet. I always liked that.

It is unfortunate that many victims are either too afraid to seek support, or are unaware that it exists.

[wnylib]

19. In my case, I was too afraid to not seek support.

I couldn't have put it into words then, but I intuitively knew that making the abuse public knowledge to all friends, relatives, and coworkers once I left him was my greatest protection. He had kept it a secret out of his fear of consequences to him and I had complied out of fear of what he would do to me. But once out of his direct daily control, I knew that exposing him protected me from his belief that he could harm me and get away with it.

He kept telling people that we had an "amiable" separation and divorce in the belief that convincing people of that would protect him from suspicion of anything that happened to me. So speaking out and letting it get back to him that people knew the truth was a defense tactic for me.

[H2O Man]

22. That is great to hear!

You have reason to be proud of the way you handled a threatening situation! I am very impressed!

I've never had a stalker, at least so far as I know. But working with violent people in the context of forensic mental health resulted in having a few guys threaten me. I was fortunate that, at the time, I could talk to my two uncles that were BCI Senior Investigators here in NYS. These talks proved helpful. I could tell some stories about how well their suggestions worked. It always involved documenting the threats directed towards me, along with conversations with the thugs that I didn't fully document. I suppose that was a male privilege that women don't have, but there are times when it is good to take advantage of such things.

[wnylib]

24. When in a threatening situation, take advantage

of everything at your disposal to help.

[H2O Man]

25. I believe in clear communication.

And I remember when I was young, hearing Malcolm X say that to communicate, you have to understand the language the other person speaks. In the cases we are discussing, intimidation is their language, and threats drip from their tongue. One afternoon, a fellow who had an addiction to pain killers called me at the mental health clinic. He was demanding a Rx, despite the fact our psychiatrist did not prescribe such a thing. His wife got on the phone, and told me his medical doctor was refusing to prescribe them any more. I said that was between his doctor and him, but that our clinic did not prescribe pain killers. She told me I should, because he was dangerous, and he was getting pretty upset with me for not getting him a prescription.

Now, I had fought in over 300 boxing matches, and only lost to eight guys (one twice, out of our nine bouts). And although I had been in a lot less street fights, I had never lost a single one. If someone said they weren't going to go by boxing rules, I said neither was I. If they said to hit them first, the last sound they heard beforeunconsciousness was my left hook sizzling towards their chin. Added to this, I had an uncanny knack for remaining calm in crises. So when the guy got back on the phone and promised to shoot me when I left the clinic at five, I was prepared.

I told him that he had better be a good shot, because he'd only get one. He started shouting that he was crazy and dangerous. I said that I was, too. He said I couldn't be, because I worked for mental health. I told him tat the difference between him and I was that he wanted people to think he was crazy and dangerous, whereas I did not. In fact, everyone thought I was a sane and gentle person. I had them fooled. If he tried to hurt me, and I hurt him, everyone would believe me, because I had them fooled. When I asked if he understood the avantage I had, he hung up. I never heard from him again.

However, a couple of months later, he was in jail. He had tried to get a friend to plant an explosive device on his wife's car after she left him. The friend hesitated, because their three children were usually in the car with the mother. The thug said he didn't care. The friend thus went to the police. The prosecutor requested that I do a full assessment on the guy's adult history, which I was glad to do -- though I didn't include my end of our last conversation. He is now serving a life sentence in a NYS prison.

[wnylib]

28. That's quite a situation to be in.

Regarding speaking directly, When I remarried, my second husband and I moved to Cleveland for his job. Initially, I worked for a temp agency to get to know the city and job market. One assignment was in the advertising department of a large multinational corporation. The young woman in the job was off for a month for medical care. I learned from other employees that, although the medical leave appeared to be legitimate, she often took time off that wasn't, and often without notice or calling in. When she was there, she did a lot of socializing with employees and accomplished very little. She seemed to like the income but not the work.

I had some advertising experience and was able to pick up the job quickly. My boss on the job site, the director of advertising, told me that he thought the regular employee would quit as soon as she found another job. He said that if she did, he would call me and hire me to replace her. He asked me to stay on for a week after she returned to get her up to date on what happened while she was off.

After she returned, she heard from other employees that I might be hired to replace her. I had not told anyone about that, but I suspect that someone overheard what the boss said to me since his door was open at the time.

This employee was Black. I am White. She spoke to me in a low but threatening tone in the little cubicle where her desk was. Nobody could hear her. She said, "I know all about White people who get jobs just because they're White. This is an affirmative action job and if I leave it, it will go to another Black woman. If I ever hear about you getting this job, I will kill you."

So I said, loudly, for everyone to hear, "You'll do WHAT? You'll kill me if I get hired?" She immediately said, "Shh. Everyone can hear you." I said, "That's right. I want them to hear me. Nobody threatens me in silence."

She was so young and so inexperienced in the work world that it was obvious to me that she was very insecure. She had been hired for a good job but found that it wasn't the kind of work that she liked, but she hung onto it anyway. Maybe she feared that she would not get another good job due to racism. I think that despite the company's equal opportunity policy she probably experienced subtle forms of racism and thought that she was being pressured to quit. It might have accounted for her absenteeism. All this passed through my mind quickly, out of awareness of racism and some of its effects on people. I said some of that directly to her. I invited her to join me the next day when my husband met me for lunch. She asked why and I said that she might like meeting a White person who had helped some young Black people get a leg up in education and jobs.

When I met my second husband, who was also White, he was a grad student who worked for a program at the university that gave supportive tutoring and job advisement to Black students to overcome educational gaps caused by poor school systems.

She accepted my offer and throughout lunch talked to my husband about matching job skills with her interests, and about job and educational opportunities. She thanked both of us.

I finished out the week on the job with her and went on to the next temp assignment. I don't know if she stayed on that job, got a different one, or went on to take classes. The company never called me about the job but I didn't care. I had other opportunities and eventually went to work for an ad agency.