The Flying Tigers for Ukraine?

[EX500rider]

The US had American pilots helping the Chinese fight the Japanese as the Flying Tigers during WWII.

Something similar is being suggested for Ukraine by this ex US Air Force colonel:

"Jeffrey Fischer, a former US Air Force colonel, argued in a Kyiv Post piece that Kyiv does not need to request aircraft directly from the US Air Force.

Instead, Fischer suggested Kyiv take advantage of a 2019 Defense Department initiative to outsource its aggressor air training units to a few private corporations that not only conduct pilot training but also possess the aircraft that will likely be deployed in battle.

Fischer proposed using the program to lease US-owned aircraft to Ukraine’s defense forces. This will also eliminate the process associated with training those forces on technically sophisticated equipment."

https://eurasiantimes.com/mercenary-air-force-for-ukraine-ex-us-air-force-official-suggests/

I like it.

[ripcord]

1. Are mercenaries really a good idea?

[EX500rider]

2. I think the Chinese thought they were a good idea.

And I think the ukrainians would prefer a modern Air Force however they get it.

[rsdsharp]

3. The Chinese paid the Flying Tiger pilots $600 per month (more for section and squadron leaders)

and a $500 bonus for every plane he shot down. That would translate to about $12,000 a month in today’s money, plus bonuses. And they were flying P40s which were badly outclassed by the Japanese Zero.

Is that what they are suggesting? Fly outmoded planes against state of the art technology as well paid mercenaries?

[trof]

4. Former fighter pilot here

I doubt very much that aircraft would be 'outmoded'.
Get real.

[rsdsharp]

7. The P40 was.

[EX500rider]

8. Only because the Japanese had better

Outdated planes would have been if they flew the p26 peashooter or the Brewster Buffalo.

At the start of world war II the p-40 was our good plane.

[rsdsharp]

10. And outclassed by the Zero, the ME109, Fw190, Spitefire and Hurricane.

[EX500rider]

13. At high altitude yes otherwise it was an okay plane

"The P-40's lack of a two-speed supercharger made it inferior to Luftwaffe fighters such as the Messerschmitt Bf 109 or the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 in high-altitude combat and it was rarely used in operations in Northwest Europe. However, between 1941 and 1944, the P-40 played a critical role with Allied air forces in three major theaters: North Africa, the Southwest Pacific, and China. It also had a significant role in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, Alaska and Italy. The P-40's performance at high altitudes was not as important in those theaters, where it served as an air superiority fighter, bomber escort and fighter-bomber. Although it gained a postwar reputation as a mediocre design, suitable only for close air support, more recent research including scrutiny of the records of individual Allied squadrons indicates that this was not the case: the P-40 performed surprisingly well as an air superiority fighter, at times suffering severe losses, but also inflicting a very heavy toll on enemy aircraft.[9] Based on war-time victory claims, over 200 Allied fighter pilots – from the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, the US and the Soviet Union – became aces flying the P-40. These included at least 20 double aces,[10] mostly over North Africa, China, Burma and India, the South West Pacific and Eastern Europe. The P-40 offered the additional advantages of low cost and durability, which kept it in production as a ground-attack aircraft long after it was obsolescent as a fighter."

[mitch96]

18. From what I have read the AVG used the P40 strength against the Zero's weakness..

Never a turning fight. They used the P 40's better dive characteristics to "boom and zoom" at the Zero. Get in get close, shoot and dive away..
m

[EX500rider]

24. Which is what all US fighters basically had to do to tangle with the Zero nt

[48656c6c6f20]

31. Don't forget the B101 Obtuse.

[EX500rider]

11. And not according to the results

"AVG pilots earned official credit and received combat bonuses for destroying 296 enemy aircraft, while losing only 14 pilots in combat."

AVG equals American volunteer group AKA The Flying Tigers

[rsdsharp]

14. How many were Zeros as opposed to bombers?

[EX500rider]

16. Either way they got through the fighter screen to get to the bombers

[rsdsharp]

17. Assuming they were escorted.

[EX500rider]

19. Wikipedia has their combat record in detail

They fought some advanced Japanese fighters, including Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusas (Oscars) & Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu (Nick) heavy fighters.

[Lancero]

22. None since the Zero was operated by the IJN, and the Flying Tigers were against the IJA.

You do know that Japan operated more craft than just the Zero, right?

[rsdsharp]

23. No. I had no idea! I thought the Zero was an all purpose plane.

Fighter, bomber, transport, reconnaissance, sea plane. You name it.

(added just for you).

[Lancero]

21. The P-40 was superior compared to craft Japan was operating at the time in that combat theatre.

The much glorified Zero was operated by the IJN, however the Flying Tigers were up against the IJA which... Guess what? Had their own inventory of craft.

[EX500rider]

25. Exactly, they were mostly up against Nakajima Ki-27...

...which with its air-cooled radial engine and fixed landing gear and stubby body was more akin to the Boeing P-26 "Peashooter" or the Soviet Polikarpov I-16 (which at least had retractable landing gear).

Ki-27:



The P-40's good qualities included pilot armor, self-sealing fuel tanks, sturdy construction, heavy armament, and a higher diving speed than most Japanese aircraft – qualities that could be used to advantage in accordance with Chennault's combat tactics

[trof]

26. Not talking the P-40.

We're not giving them P-40s.
Probably F-16s.

[EX500rider]

5. These are the companies that act as as aggressor aircraft

Extremely well trained pilots and I'm sure we make sure they got modern f-16s or 15s

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

15. Canada's RCAF...

Uses Canadian Air Combat and Electronic Warfare Support Services provides Alpha Jets for training plus Lortie Aviation provides Hawker Hunter jets from the 1950's also for training, pilots. Hawker Hunters rock.

https://www.canada.ca/en/air-force/corporate/squadrons/414-squadron.html

https://www.lortieaviation.com/home.aviation.htm

[Srkdqltr]

6. I'm sure modern equipment would be used. Comparable to what the Russians have.

[Irish_Dem]

9. I love it. The Flying Tigers were hugely successful, brave and popular.

I once saw one of the Flying Tiger airplanes, the P-40, in the mid 1950's when I was very young.
It scared the hell out of me and I rememberer it to this day.
The very big shark teeth on the front and side of the plane, I had never seen anything like it.

[Srkdqltr]

12. I read a book about it published in the 40's. Very colorful and exciting.

I remember being very impressed with it. Probably read it in the early 50's. Wish I still had it.

[Patton French]

20. Pappy Boyington of Black Sheep Squadron fame flew with the Flying Tigers NT

[ripcord]

27. Maybe they can get Blackwater

[WarGamer]

28. Or like Russian pilots flying in Vietnam against the US?

[EX500rider]

29. Exactly, what goes around comes around. Nt

[WarGamer]

30. Yup... the next war the US gets into....

Expect to see full military support from Russia and maybe China and not just RPG's and AK's like in Iraq.