leading US doctor says he won't partake of medical services (for himself) after age 75

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

the guy is crazy... I understand deciding to cut off major interventions at some point if very sick, but no flu shots? He could life to 100, why be miserably sick for no reason?

list of things he wont do:

regular screenings and interventions
cancer screenings
colonoscopies
cardiac stress tests
pacemakers
heart valve / bypass
flu shots/ antibiotics
ventilators, surgery, medication
chemo


"You can't go blindly into old age," says Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who plans to stop seeking any medical interventions after age 75. "Which I think unfortunately happens to many, many people, and the medical system will do what the medical system does, regardless of what your philosophy of life."


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/leading-us-doctor-says-he-won-t-get-treatment-if-he-gets-cancer-after-75/vi-AA16BgNQ

[bucolic_frolic]

1. I do understand, Dr. Emanuel. You lose control of your own body

You are a profit center for Big Medicine and Big Pharma. I don't have an answer, but I don't know if I want to go there. As quality of life declines but is extended, is it worth it to find out what happens to our world and those around us? Like we don't know?

[PatSeg]

74. I understand as well

At this point in my life, I've had enough drugs, tests, operations, and procedures. I am more focused on the quality of life that I am living right now, not extending that life indefinitely with healthcare that is expensive and often invasive. Recuperating from treatment is frequently as difficult as recuperating from the illness, sometimes worse.

Right now, I think I'd like to live day-to-day.

[Tickle]

83. I so get it PatSeg

I feel the same way and to me after 75 I won't be screening for cancer because I won't do chemo at that my age and I don't want to know. Understand that is just me and I have no intentions of making the norm.

[PatSeg]

92. Yes, I feel the same way

I figure if they look hard enough and run enough tests, they will undoubtedly find something. At this point, I really don't want to know because I'm not willing to go through the treatment recommended. I'm not sure I could survive something like chemo.

[Ms. Toad]

96. The point of cancer screening is to catch cancer early enough that chemo isn't needed.

Cancer does not inherently require chemo. I have one of the more aggressive cancers around (sarcoma) and have not had either radiation or chemo. I ran a predictive calculator yesterday - and because of how early I caught it my survival rate was predicted at 94% at 5 years. I'm two years past diagnosis (and only out-patient surgical treatment) my 5-year survival rate is predicted at 98%.

My parents (currently age 91) my brother, and I, collectively, have had at least 7 cancers. I am the only one who has had anything beyond surgical treatment - and if I had had adequate time to research when the decision needed to be made, I would not have had radiation. All of this is because all of the cancers were caught early.

I absolutely support making quality of life decisions about medical intervention. My parents and I have conversations about quality of life versus intervention all of the time. My mother has been very clear from her 60s - she leans toward avoiding aggressive intervention. She declined both radiation and chemo for her first breast cancer. Chemo wasn't even offered to her for her second - but she declined radiation for that as well. Both were treated surgically. I am on her medical power of attorney because she is afraid my father will be unable to make the decision to avoid aggressive care. My father, as he feels the impact of age, moves more and more toward less aggressive intervention. His current standard is that as long as he has a reasonable expectation of being able to recover and go play in the dirt (life-long farmer) he wants that opportunity. Both have DNR documents tacked to their refrigerator.

But surgery, for most early cancers, can be a relatively non-intrusive and complete treatment - with lots of quality of life beyond that. And you only get the opportunity for surgery to be a complete treatment if you know (because of screening) that you have it. I barely had any interruption to my daily activities for both of my surgical treatments for cancer. I was off work the day of surgery for breast cancer - and working from home the next day. My first surgery for sarcoma (to remove the tumor and place an initial skin graft) took place over the winter holidays, but I was teaching a class of incoming law students 4 days after my second (more taxing) surgery to place the final skin graft.

Finally - untreated cancer is a miserable, painful way to die. Had I chosen to not know, my sarcoma would have eventually metastasized to my lungs and I ultimately would have died in significant pain, unable to breathe. Knowing - and having the choice of early surgical intervention - allows me the best chance of avoiding that fate.

[malaise]

90. You speak for me

That simple - quality of life matters way more than merely being alive

[PatSeg]

94. Yeah, I've done the "alive" part for a long time

and if there is more life ahead, I'll take it gratefully, but meanwhile, I'm focused on the quality of what life I have left.

[malaise]

98. and enjoyed it to the max

I exercise twice a day, mostly eat healthy food, exercise my brain and keep in touch with family and friends.
Anything else is extras

[PatSeg]

100. Icing on the cake!

[woodsprite]

2. Well, good for him. I personally plan

On going kicking and screaming until I’m totally worn out. At least that’s my plan now, at 60, and I wouldn’t fancy someone telling me I couldn’t do it because I was just too old.

[msfiddlestix]

86. Personal decision isn't dictating what others are required to believe or do.

It's a personal choice about ones own life.

Think of it as a pro-choice thing. Anti-Abortion people will be telling us we cannot make this decision for our own selves.

I would rather think it's not any of their business. I'm not interested in telling they must live as invalid until they're 100+ years, breathing through tubes and oxygen tanks and rotting in nursing homes.

No fucking thank you.

[marybourg]

3. Yup. I've already implemented this for myself. I'm 80.

Except for antibiotics. I get uti’s, and that can be excruciating. I told my dr. “palliative care only, from here on in”. She’s about halfway onboard.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

5. but you would take a flu shot?

[marybourg]

7. I've never taken one yet, so I doubt I'd

start now. I’ve never had the flu, either, even in the 1957 pandemic when I was in crowded situations every day. I did take the Covid shots and 1 booster.

[hunter]

48. You're like my great aunt that way. She never got sick.

During the Spanish flu epidemic she delivered medicine for the local pharmacist because all his usual delivery people had died, were sick, or were terrified of getting sick. Girls at the time didn't do that sort of work. She loved it. A fantastic opportunity to socialize!

Wish I had her immune system.

My great aunt lived a few years past a century. In the end it was her skeleton that betrayed her, she got too brittle to move about, the smallest misstep would break her bones, and she was someone who lived for moving about.

As Mae West said, and my great aunt quoted, "Good girls go to heaven, but bad girls go everywhere."

Alas, before the advent of modern meds, even a minor respiratory infection could land me in the hospital with pneumonia.

Before Covid-19, the worst I remember was the "Hong Kong" flu epidemic. That one put me in the hospital, and the hell of it was it was during Christmas vacation. I'd have been much happier missing school for it.

[elleng]

4. Interesting.

I am just now about to embark on a major intervention, @ 78, having avoided needs for such until now, having decided I'd like to improve somewhat. Details later.

[RobinA]

8. Oh, Best of Luck To You

Hang in!

[elleng]

9. Thanks

[applegrove]

10. Vibes to you.

[irisblue]

22. Best hopes dear elleng

[XanaDUer2]

69. Good luck! Nt

[MMBeilis]

6. I'm going to have to think about this for a while as I turned 75 last August. Didn't a Governor of..

.....Colorado catch a bunch of flak a few years ago when he suggested that the aged have a responsibility to accept death rather than hanging on too long and burdening our health care system with end of life expenses.

[niyad]

15. Welcome to our DU family.

[MMBeilis]

52. Thank you. It's nice to be here.

[niyad]

18. Richard Lamm made that remark back in the 80's. He did indeed catch flak for it.

[MMBeilis]

55. Yep, that's the name that I remember. Looked him up on Wiki and found this:

"We've got a duty to die and get out of the way with all of our machines and artificial hearts and everything else like that and let the other society, our kids, build a reasonable life." He was a Democrat, but did later run against Ross Perot for the Reform Party nomination for president. Thanks for jog to my memory.

[PatSeg]

76. I'd never heard that

That is really tacky and tone deaf. Apparently not a very good politician either.

[peggysue2]

107. Lest we forget, Dan Patrick (Lt. Governor, TX) . . .

Made similar remarks during the initial Covid-19 spread, something on the order of how seniors should be willing to sacrifice themselves on the Altar of Commerce. He received flak but not from Republican circles in which pols were more worried about businesses closing than the welfare of their citizens.

On topic, I have no problem with individuals deciding on their own health paths: to seek or not to seek medical intervention after a certain age. My husband and I have Living Wills in the event of an injury or disease bringing us to the end of things and where the question of heroic measures comes to the fore. Neither of us want machines keeping us in a limbo state with no reasonable chance of recovery.

However, when it comes to preventative testing, antibiotics, etc., I want to make those decisions for myself. As well as chemo/radiation depending on the cancer type and stage at which it's found.

I think Dr. Emmanuel has a perfect right to make these decisions. For himself.

We all have that right, as well as changing our minds as the case may be. Which makes it important to have personal medical directives in writing, updated and notarized.

[thucythucy]

25. The Lieutenant Governor of Texas also suggested

we shouldn't worry about old people dying of Covid if taking precautions meant screwing up the economy.

Pretty much a textbook definition of profits over people.

[PatSeg]

75. It is an individual decision

75 is different for different people and some of us still have a lot to do. We all have to make the choices that are best for us and our families, though I think that governor's suggestion was a bit tacky. I understand why he caught a bunch of flak for it.

[paleotn]

11. MDs are just like everyone else. Some are smart and logical. Some are nuts.

This guy is obviously off his freaking rocker. Hey, want to croak from treatable maladies after 75? Be my guest.

[PatSeg]

78. Actually it was Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel

[Ms. Toad]

97. You might want to actually read the article,

and watch the video at the link.

Let's just say the original article (written years ago) and his actual current beliefs bear little resemblance to the sensationalized headlines.

[MOMFUDSKI]

12. I am currently 75.

I will be having a hemilaminectomy on 2/1 if preops come back OK. Due to sciatica I haven't been able to walk more than 40 or 50 feet at one time since March. I used to walk 4,000 steps every day. Told the ortho surgeon my life has been turned upside down. Haven't been in a grocery store or any other kind of store for about 6 months now. If surgery doesn't work then I will get a bike or something to be able to get out in the neighborhood and use the motorized carts at the grocery store. I've been super active and fifth gear my whole life and I am willing to try to fix myself. I do feel the 75 years now but didn't feel them until my disc herniated. Gotta keep on keeping on.

[dweller]

21. Herniated discs are debilitating

Have had 2, and 2 surgeries to correct them. No pain since but have limitations but my life is not affected by it any longer
I hope yours is as successful



✌🏻

[MOMFUDSKI]

39. Thanks.

So happy to hear you have been 'fixed' twice! I told my husband that I am "broken". Getting older is not easy but I will fight it all the way.

[dweller]

45. I'm younger than you

and my surgeries were at least 20 years ago, but the relief was immediate! Woke up from surgery with no pain again, both times. Rehab is time consuming, but easier without the pain

✌🏻

[MLAA]

23. Best wishes!

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

27. good luck with your surgery. I experienced sciatica for a few months.. it was miserable!

Definitely... keep working on resolving the issue.

[Happy Hoosier]

67. Suffered that in my late 40's....

It was soul crushing. Had the surgery and got my life back! I hope you do too! Recovery was no picnic, so stick with it… it DOES pay off.

[RockRaven]

13. There are rational, quality of life reasons to forego some screenings or high-maintenance

interventions depending on one's age and life expectancy... In fact, certain screening tests/protocols become contraindicated beyond certain ages because the downsides begin outweighing the benefits. The general principle is not new or outrageous.

But flu shots/antibiotics? That's one I haven't seen a good data-driven justification of.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Smart guy. End of life costs are massive, with trying to fix the...

largely unfixable. And he has a pretty good idea if he will continue to be productive with all those expenses.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

28. no flu shots, no antibiotics? no...he is a nut case

[Ms. Toad]

101. You might want to watch the video at the link you posted.

The first point he makes in the interview is that authors have zero say in the title an article is given.

He didn't specifically address flu shots or antibiotics in the interview (about the article, which was written almost a decade ago). But he makes it clear that he wants routine medical care for treatable conditions.

He also indicated that age 75 was chosen because that is the average lifespan. According to the interview (I can't get access to the full article), if he is an outlier (as is likely, given his parents' age) the age at which he would refuse interventions would correspond to the the age at which his consumption exceeds his contribution.

Antibiotics and flu vaccines are puzzling - it would be nice to be able to read the original article to see his reasoning. Antibiotics are generally low-cost and effective treatment for acute conditions. It does not seem consistent with his concerns (that his consumption will exceed his contributions). As to flu vaccines - I may well make the opposite decision. I've never had a flu vaccine in my life. For a lot of reasons the personal risks exceeds the benefits. But - as I age, that balance may well change. So I may well begin getting flu shots in the relatively near future.

[Sky Jewels]

17. I sort of understand his thinking, but IMO 75 seems an arbitrary and too-young age.

What's wrong with taking precautions and getting vaxxed and taking antibiotics if you're otherwise relatively healthy?

If you're diagnosed with lung cancer at age 95, well, sure, it makes sense to avoid treatment. And maybe if you're 85, if that seems like a reasonable decision to you. But, I don't know, I don't think I'd like to leave good years on the table if I could stay fairly healthy with just basic preventative steps and moderate treatments.

Just my two cents.

[MOMFUDSKI]

41. I feel that if the treatment

is worse than the disease in older age, then forget about it. Thanks to all for the good wishes.

[Sky Jewels]

46. Yes, I agree.

That's why I don't see the point of putting an arbitrary age limit on things. Make decisions on a case-by-case basis.

[PatSeg]

79. Yes, it is a very individual decision

It should be the person's own choice as to how much medical care they are willing to use. After 7 or 8 decades, people tend to know their bodies and usually are able to make such decisions. If Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel considers 75 his cutoff age, his choice should be accepted. Other people may differ.

[Ms. Toad]

102. Watch the video at the link.

Headlines do not necessarily match the actual article. The article being discussed was written nearly a decade ago. It is in the news now becasue he just turned 65.

He said then (nearly a decade ago), and now, that there are outliers. 75 was chosen because it was, then, the average lifespan. If he turns out to be an outlier (which seems likely because he is healthy, his mother is alive in her 90s, and his father died at 93), his "expiration date" would be later. He will assess it based on when his consumption exceeds his contributions.

[phoenix75]

19. I read this several years ago and it is one of my favorite articles ....

I turned 75 last November and I personally embrace his philosophy for my own life. I think he truly understands the beauty of Nature. This is one of my favorite quotes from "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius: "Consider that before long you will be nobody and nowhere, nor will any of the things exist which you now see, nor any of those who are now living. For all things are formed by nature to change and to perish, in order that other things in continuous succession may exist."

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

29. I really love that quote

[MOMFUDSKI]

42. We are all facing our mortality.

To everything there is a season . . . Thanks for that quote.

[Sky Jewels]

47. I completely sympathize with this philosophy in general, but

I think people's circumstances vary so widely, there's no need to say, "Okay, 75 is it!" I have friends and family who have parents who lived well into their 90s being very sharp and mobile. I will say that almost all of them were Jewish, and I'm a goy, soooo... But my Eastern European ancestry mom is closing in on nine decades and doing pretty well, so maybe I do have pseudo-Jewish genes.

On the other hand, I have told my kids and husband that if I receive certain diagnoses, such as ALS or other debilitating neurological disease, dementia, or certain types of aggressive cancers, I'm saying, "Nope!" Not going to treat, and, TBH, will find a way to end my life early if I can do it without causing massive trauma to my loved ones. It gives me comfort to live in a right-to-die state (Oregon).

[GenThePerservering]

20. I'd rather take the logical path

of deciding which interventions are reasonable at that point in time.

This either/or attitude is nonsense, and pretty lazy IMHO.

[3catwoman3]

24. Well, I will be 72 in April. This past October I treated myself to...

...some plastic surgery - revision of a droopy C-section scar that I have hated for 30 years since my second C-section at age 41. Also known as a skin only tummy tuck. I am thrilled with the results.

I had this "mud flap" of skin hanging down above the scar that showed thru any light weight clothing, and had nothing to do with weight or muscle tone. Maybe no one else noticed, but I did, and even if no one else can tell the difference now, I can, and altho my bikini days are long over, it was entirely worth it, even at 72.

And now I am getting some spider veins injected. I look forward to wearing shorts without looking like my legs have been beaten with a night stick.

As long as I am healthy enough and in good enough shape to benefit from interventions, I will continue to intervene.

I will not prolong a lost cause or suffering.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

31. good for you. Me too! quality of life matters!!

[JanLip]

36. Great idea...

Like you I had 3 c-sections and I have a “mud flap”. I might just look into that. When I had my sections they cut me from navel to hoo hoo. About the subject of the thread…if a person is in intense pain they will prolly throw the no medical intervention out the door. just my opinion

[MOMFUDSKI]

44. Good for you!

I totally agree with your last line.

[sinkingfeeling]

26. I'm 75, a Stage IV cancer survivor, and have the same list as Dr. Emanuel.

[Demovictory9]

38. No flu shot? No medicines?

[sinkingfeeling]

49. Never had a flu nor pneumonia vaccine. Allergic

to antibiotics (and most vaccines). I'm on no prescribed medication. I will go to doctors and might consider minor surgery. After the cancer, I have no desire to go through all that stuff again.

Took three doctors to okay getting my Covid-19 vaccinations. Have written exemptions for things like yellow fever from certified CDC doctors.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

51. wow...got it. glad you are open to minor surgery

[thucythucy]

30. So if he gets into a car wreck

we should just leave him to die at the scene?

No ambulance rides, no ER?

If he falls and breaks a leg, no medical care, no cast?

Whatever he says now, when push comes to shove I somehow doubt he'll keep to this resolution.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

32. agree...let's check in on Dr. Smartie in 10 years.

[thucythucy]

34. Reminds me of Jack Kervorkian.

Always eager to rush others to their deaths, and said he'd rather die than go to prison.

Nope, didn't happen. Didn't do the hunger strike he'd promised either.

As I say, when push comes to shove most people tend to have second thoughts.

[Sky Jewels]

50. He'll be exactly 75 then ... I wonder if he'll feel the same way about the issue at that point.

[Ms. Toad]

104. Umm . . . the interview you linked to is 9 years after he wrote the article.

If that's close enough, you can check in by watching the interview at the link you posted.

Hint: Headlines don't always match the content of articles. Not only does he expect routine medical intervention for acute conditions to continue, he expected it at the time he wrote the article.

[Ms. Toad]

103. Did you watch the clip at the link?

He says that he wants medical care for acute treatable conditions - including an express expectation that he will be treated if he breaks a leg.

The very first point he makes in the interview (about the article he wrote nearly a decade ago) is that titles are not written by the authors.

That's why it is important to read beyond the headlines.

[yorkster]

33. He first said this in 2014 in the Atlantic article, "Why I hope to die at 75".

At that time, the cynic in me thought he was suggesting that the rest of us follow his lead. Gee, wouldn't Medicare have a lot more money if everyone, you know voluntarily
just stopped all medical care?
OK, Zeke, you go first. Oh wait, I'm older so me and me peers, we go first. Look, I have a DNR as does my spouse. We would probably not choose major surgery at this point. But, I'd at least like to know, as much as is possible, what's going to take me out and what's the likely timeline. In the meantime, I'll keep giving things away, updating will, etc. But sounds like Zeke is ready for it all to wind up at 75 - for him and the rest of us.

So glad you felt the need to update us Zeke. You're consistent,at least. But, if you mean this to apply only to yourself, maybe keep it to yourself. At least going forward...

[Meowmee]

35. I doubt he will or did do that

I guess this was a while back. It is each person's decision to make. Hc needs to be affordable to all and the same for anyone older. One of my father’s friend’s relatives had tavr surgery in Canada in his 90’s and is doing very well, and enjoying his life and family.

Having experienced the murder of my father by this country and hcw I have a very different experience of this. I was abused and harassed non stop to kill my father with drugs at the end for over a month. While they committed numerous gross negligences which caused his death and refused standard of care as well. They also illegally tried and eventually managed to change his code.

My father was compos mentis after surviving a cardiac arrest that they caused and wanted to come home, get a dog and do his last work/ idea which was the discovery / prediction of a new particle. They started harassing me five minutes after he was revived. These people are disgusting. It is all about the money. More than a fair number are also sadists and enjoy hurting people. They are murdering people, especially older people, everyday.

[Demovictory9]

40. My dad had a health scare in his 80s while living in nursing home. Doc was asking him gow much

Intervention he wanted rather rhan just treating him.. Doc was trying to push him into the.grave over sonething minor

[Meowmee]

54. Yes it is happening

All over this country daily. In nh and hospitals and at home. I am glad your father survived.

[tavernier]

37. I'm with Elton

At 76 I’m Still Standing.

Still working, still maintaining my blonde locks, still wearing heels out to dinner, still interested in life.
Who knows, I may even fall in love again.
Never say it’s over till it’s over, Doc.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

59. exactly...even if I lost mobility, there is the internet. He's a fancy doctor

fancy types never give up their fancy careers...I bet he changes his mind

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

60. Buzz Aldrin got married Friday at age 93

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/buzz-aldrin-marries-partner-anca-faur-on-his-93rd-birthday/ar-AA16Bcgx

Aldrin was the second human to walk on the moon after Apollo 11 mission commander Neil Armstrong on July 21, 1969.

"On my 93rd birthday & the day I will also be honored by Living Legends of Aviation I am pleased to announce that my longtime love Dr. Anca Faur & I have tied the knot. We were joined in holy matrimony in a small private ceremony in Los Angeles & are as excited as eloping teenagers," Aldrin tweeted Friday.

Faur, Aldrin's fourth wife, is a Romanian-born chemical engineer who currently serves as Executive Vice President of Buzz Aldrin Ventures LLC.

[Rebl2]

43. Each individual

has to decide for themselves when they no longer want more medical care and they need to communicate it to their closest friend or spouse and their doctor long before they can’t communicate anymore. Those you confide in must abide by your decisions. That can be done by an advanced medical directive. I had mine done through my lawyer and my husband knows my wishes. I tried talking to my younger sister last year about this, but she was not having it. So that was the end of that conversation.

[liberal_mama]

53. My father died 3 months ago at age 74 from Covid. My grandmother died at 95 just before the pandemic

started. She was healthy and mobile right until the last few weeks of her life. She was still able to live in her own home that she bought in 1971. She really enjoyed those 20 extra years she had after she turned 75. She loved going out to restaurants and the casino and spending time with family.

My father was robbed of possible decades of life. Our family is devastated and will never be the same. Other than being 74 years old, he was perfectly healthy. No diabetes, not overweight, great kidney and liver function. I guess it seems that some people don't care if you die and you are a certain age.

My sister's in-laws were like that. When they were in their 50s, they had living wills made and said they wanted no medical interventions once they reached a certain age like Zeke Emanuel says. They'd talk about it all the time. Believe me, once they got into their 70s, they wanted everything. They both got Covid after going on vacation to Florida and both were hospitalized. They demanded every available treatment like the monoclonal antibodies and MIL went on a ventilator. My sister's FIL survived, but her mother in-law died from her Covid infection.

Zeke will probably be begging for treatment too once he's 75. Zeke is 65 now, so his clock is ticking.

[hunter]

56. I'm only in my sixties but there's quite a few medical diagnoses I might respond to with...

... "Well, fuck, bye. I won't be back."

It'll probably be up to my immediate family if I eventually land in hospice or die on the streets.

I have a somewhat colorful history of leaving places AMA, Against Medical Advice.

[WheelWalker]

57. Hippocrates having cured many sicknesses, fell sick himself and died.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

[Ilsa]

58. I'll take vaccines, & probably continue most noninvasive screening

by 75, but I will probably draw the line at colonoscopies, etc. I hope I can make it to 75-80.

[mnhtnbb]

61. I don't do routine breast or colon cancer

screenings. I don't do flu shots. I've had high cholesterol for 30 some years and refuse to take statins.

I do use routine asthma medication and take a pill for high blood pressure. I have been vaxxed and boosted for COVID and still wear a mask indoors and avoid crowds. I go to the dentist and eye doc routinely. I will have cataracts removed if necessary or treat glaucoma.

I'll be 72 in March. I've told my doc I will not go through cancer treatment. I live alone. If I get some debilitating disease I'm not going to struggle with it. I'd rather leave an inheritance for my sons than to blow resources prolonging my life, especially if it involves considerable pain or decline in quality of life.

I've had a good life. Bodies age and wear out. Some sooner than others. I have two hip replacements and a knee replacement. I'm not anxious to do more joint replacement surgery, but my first hip replacement was 16 years ago and it's possible it could have to be redone. Ugh. When you replace a hip that's already been replaced, it has to be done the old way from the posterior, which means three months of restrictions to avoid dislocation. Not fun, especially living alone . I have zero desire to move to assisted living.

So, we'll see how it goes. But I won't pursue medical care for everything that could go wrong with me as I continue to age.

[llmart]

64. +1

My philosophy is very similar to yours, though I'm very healthy and fit for 74 and have had no joint replacements and take no meds. I would draw the line at saying I won't do antibiotics or Covid vaccinations though. For what it's worth, the Covid vaccinations are the only vaccinations I've ever had except for the free polio ones in elementary school.

Anyone else here read Barbara Ehrenreich's book on the subject, "Natural Causes"? I believe she died a few months ago of a stroke at age 81 and she died on her own terms.

When I was younger I thought I'd never go through any of the painful procedures that is promoted ad nauseum in our current culture, but now that I'm older I can understand more how some people might want to do everything possible even if it only gives them one more day living in pain, but still living. That's not me. Like you, I've had a good long life with the ups and downs that come with most everyone's life, and I have few regrets. I just don't think I'm that special that the world can't do without me or any one of us for that matter.

[AngryOldDem]

68. Getting to be of that mind myself.

I’m strongly considering getting off the yearly mammogram train. I just don’t need the stress before, during, and after. I’ll get the eye exam (which I’m overdue for, lol) and boosters, but really nothing else.

The stress from medical tests will kill me faster than whatever it is they’re testing me for, TBH.

Glad to know I’m not alone here.

[PatSeg]

81. Yes, it isn't just about prolonging life,

but about being miserable in the process. I am all for doing whatever improves your quality of life, but excessive medical intervention and endless tests and drugs aren't necessarily life affirming after a certain age. And some of them can make your health worse. We don't recuperate from treatments and drugs as well when we get older.

[sir pball]

62. My father turned 75 in June

He spent the last two weeks of December on a fly-fishing trip on the Paranà River in remote northern Argentina.

He can also still bench 200 and hike all day — medical care for him is a perfectly cromulent use of resources. Of course, and he's said as such, at his age certain interventions would fail a cost-benefit analysis, but an absolute, broad-brush "no more care" view, well, IMO this Looney Toon of a doc seems to have a very dim view of "senior life".

[HAB911]

63. Have to support his position

as long as we are denied control over our own bodies (voluntary right to die) that may be the position of last resort.

[Patton French]

65. That's just plain silly.... NT

[Happy Hoosier]

66. 75? Nuts....

My in-laws were still doing tip lines in Costa Rica in their 80‘s. I think the decision to not take medical intervention should be based on health, not age.

[lindysalsagal]

70. They can keep your heart beating years beyond anything you'd want to tolerate.

Best to designate a plug-puller.

[Kid Berwyn]

71. Innoculating us for Medicare cuts, perhaps?

Wasn’t Zeke the one who convinced Obama to break his promise of a public option?

The self-sacrifice of foregoing needed care is heroic, when freeing up resources for others.

Making others do it is something else.

[DFW]

72. Like they say in the theater,

“Break a leg!”

Then remind me again what a great idea it would be to refuse medical care. Or apply for a grant from Monty Python’s Ministry of Funny Walks.

If it’s treatable, treat it, unless the treatment is worse than the affliction. That would be the point at which I would call it a day.

[PatSeg]

80. Often, however, the treatment IS worse

than the affliction, especially after a certain age. I think it is a matter of perspective and individual choices.

[easttexaslefty]

73. I 100%

Agree with this, for myself. I already do some of those things and I'm 67. Plan on fully implementing somewhere between 70-75

[friend of a friend]

77. I am 79 and in good health.

The VA takes great care of me and I do what I have to to stay healthy.

[Zeitghost]

82. I would change a few details, but I get the perspective

Being in my mid-40's I'm sure the details will change a bit as I age and my health outcomes become more clear. We have lived with/cared for my wife's 99 year old grandmother for 7 years and the biggest thing I have learned in that time is that I have no desire to be the last one of my generation left and I will be completely happy with 80-85 years max on this earth.

[Vinca]

84. I agree to a point. I'm about to be 74 and I would definitely think long and hard before

embarking on a long, grueling treatment which may or may not have a positive outcome. I'll continue to get flu shots and I won't refuse antibiotics or medications I feel necessary, but I'll forego some of the testing. We live in a culture that promotes the notion that life is neverending, but once you get to a certain age you find yourself with a different perspective.

[msfiddlestix]

85. I consider this doctors position to be quite reasonable. not crazy at all.

Living out old age by way of pharmaceuticals is not in my view the definition of quality of life.

[Ms. Toad]

87. You might want to watch the interview at your link.

What he is rejecting is not routine care, or care for acute conditions, but aggressive interventions for things like cancer. In addition, 75 is the average. He has acknowledged that he appears to be headed toward being an outlier, and his "expiration date" may be past 75. His point wasn't stop taking interventions at the magic age of 75, but that he encourages people to actively think about quality of life, and to make medical decisions with quality of life, rather than longevity, in mind.

One of the things he pointed out is that authors do not write (or approve) headlines. (In addition, this is a follow-up on an article he wrote when he was considerably younger to see how he is thinking as he gets closer to the headline age.)

[grantcart]

93. Agree, he made a lot of sense

[LAS14]

88. Saw him interviewed on Smerconish

While I disagree on a few details, like flu shots (he does say he'd get a broken bone fixed), I agree with the general principle that at some point I'd befine not sucking up huge amounts of resources for a few months or years more of declining quality of life.

[malaise]

89. I agree with him re more than half of his list

It's mostly profit making with no real solutions

[Maeve]

91. So many variables here--mileage may vary tremendously

My step-dad's last two years were spent aggressively fighting cancer---at a "list price" of well over a million (I've seen the bills). However, he had great insurance and paid little out-of-pocket. Whether it was worth the pain and stress is another matter.

My mom is physically and emotionally miserable much of the time (again, great insurance, but..) and just moved into assisted living at 91 (wish it could have happened years ago, but...covid). She will spend hundreds of thousands over the remainder of her life and she never wanted nor expected to live this long (all her family died before hitting 90, her mom died in her 50's).

My 70-year old brother swears he'll suicide if he ever gets that miserable; but he is in pretty good shape, so...
Each of us has to make the choices that work for ourselves--I understand a lot of medical people sign "do not resuscitate" (DNR) papers due to experience in ERs

[Mosby]

95. His views don't comport with Jewish values.

His position on euthanasia does, though.

I wonder if his rabbi has spoken to him about this.

[Elessar Zappa]

105. Jewish people have a wide range of values.

They’re not monolithic. My grandmother was Jewish and she refused all treatments for the last 15 years of her life. I wouldn’t make the same choice but it’s up to the individual, not their rabbi, preacher, or anyone else.

[Mosby]

106. The Emanuels are modern orthodox.

Maybe he's not observant, I really don't know.

[XorXor]

99. One can always take a reasonable idea to illogical extremes. That seems to be the case here

I totally understand this to an extent, but forgoing antibiotics, flu shots, and medication in general seems a bit too far. But even then, if I make it to 75 and I've managed to maintain great health and am still in good condition like some folks are, then I don't think I'd want to give up. Particularly if there is a chance I'd have a decent 25 years (or perhaps more) left to go.