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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLosing their religion: why US churches are on the decline
Churches are closing at rapid numbers in the US, researchers say, as congregations dwindle across the country and a younger generation of Americans abandon Christianity altogether even as faith continues to dominate American politics.
As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year in the country a figure that experts believe may have accelerated since the Covid-19 pandemic.
The situation means some hard decisions for pastors, who have to decide when a dwindling congregation is no longer sustainable. But it has also created a boom market for those wanting to buy churches, with former houses of worship now finding new life.
About 4,500 Protestant churches closed in 2019, the last year data is available, with about 3,000 new churches opening, according to Lifeway Research. It was the first time the number of churches in the US hadnt grown since the evangelical firm started studying the topic. With the pandemic speeding up a broader trend of Americans turning away from Christianity, researchers say the closures will only have accelerated.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/losing-religion-why-us-churches-090033401.html
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)Young people want no part of it.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)was an important function performed by good churches. Or perhaps that morality itself even exists -- I don't recall being able to buy a solution to a moral dilemma on Fortnite.
Posting problems on social media where a horribly common response is to abandon family and friends when they become irritating is not exactly an adequate substitute.
Society may not need a deity, but it desperately needs moral teachings and understanding.
genxlib
(6,102 posts)Kids can turn out moral without a church upbringing
Kids can turn out evil with a church upbringing.
What is needed is good parenting and the support of a good community. The problem is that many people use church to provide that community. Without church, it is hard to find a substitute for it
paleotn
(21,823 posts)One of religions greatest fibs is that they're essential for a moral society. As usual, they're full of crap.
Happy Hoosier
(9,445 posts)Especially when the moral behavior they teach often includes denying people basic human rights.
paleotn
(21,823 posts)We have been for years. So you're saying my partner and I didn't teach our brood moral lessons because we don't belong to some religion? Our children are thus amoral? I find that EXTREMELY offensive. You don't need mythological bullshit to teach morality. One of religions biggest lies. Given their track record, THAT'S saying a lot.
The most hateful and immoral people I've ever known in my life are staunchly religious.
niyad
(130,454 posts)edifice complex has nothing to do with moral teachings.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)is such a thing as moral teachings and understanding.
So many responses. Imo, all illustrate the problem I'm pointing out in one way or another.
Most deny knowing that ANY churches instruct their congregations in morality in daily life. No one looked that one up first.
Most deny that learning is necessary. In THIS world with abundant proof that it is horribly needed available in every direction every day, they didn't look that amazing impression up either.
People vary tremendously in their ability to understand or care about moral issues, and in the way they interpret and experience them. It's like math, music, economics -- most people won't get large parts of it on their own, won't even try. How many of us have wondered about or tested their own level of moral reasoning? Note, we're not talking about how moral we are or behave, but our ability to understand what is moral.
Btw, no one who claims to have had adequate moral teaching explains where it came from. So others will know where to find it. Failing structured attempts by good churches, schools would be the next most likely source, but it's obvious right in this thread that only some do. Failing those, even more hit-and-miss exposures through things like the Boy Scouts, Dear Abby, organized sports (don't let the team down!), movies (the force be with you, there is a dark side...
You really should wonder about the connection between the normalization of evil and depravity and the general cluelessness that moral principles even exist and should be studied and considered for adoption.
Aristus
(71,868 posts)is down to fewer than forty people, all of them over the age of 65.
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)Rebl2
(17,525 posts)Ilsa
(64,026 posts)a conservative minister was hired. He got tossed. Ruined the budget with donations down.
Now we have a liberal minister, and conservatives are staying away from worship, although many still go to Sunday School.
We're struggling for the first time in decades.
walkingman
(10,486 posts)said for me it's over. I always thought it was hypocritical and more of a social club but after 2016 that made it easy for me.
I think religion is a personal choice and that no one religion is the correct religion. My personal religion is "Try to not be an asshole". It's not that hard but admittedly I sometimes fail. No heaven, no hell, no fear of punishment, no guilt, no savior, no one to worship, no one to fear, just try to not be an asshole 😁 And when I fail, as we all do, do your best and try again.
Wednesdays
(21,906 posts)And that Golden Rule has been adopted even among the nonreligious.
You know that's not even remotely true, right?
Wednesdays
(21,906 posts)Please explain. You think that certain religions promote the belief that you should do nasty stuff to others?
On edit: the original religions, not perversions of it, like the Taliban and Evangelical Fundamentalists.
Archae
(47,245 posts)"He or she who has the gold makes the rules."
edhopper
(37,170 posts)Or the Koran. They teach it throughout.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Im sure that sentiment in some form predates the surviving manmade organized religions by tens and tens of thousands of years. Ape-ish critters like humans and prehumans evolved as highly social beings who can only survive and thrive when they collaborate on gathering and hunting food, creating shelter, watching the children, and the like. IMO, we would have been far better off had we left it at that and not brought the silly supernatural stories into the mix. Too late now though. At least more and more people are rejecting them, which gives me hope.
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)How's that one working these days?
My observation is that a MAJORITY of people are unable to apply it to their own behavior and couldn't comply even if they took a fancy to.
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)peppertree
(23,186 posts)Happy Hoosier
(9,445 posts)And theres some strangely missing commandments. There is no commandment against slavery. Or rape. Or beating the snot out of someone. Odd.
ToxMarz
(2,797 posts)Lucky we got 10!
Happy Hoosier
(9,445 posts)Diamond_Dog
(40,076 posts)I didnt leave my church - my church left me.
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)JanLip
(862 posts)Too much politics being spewed in a hateful way.
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)When I was to.d who I had to vote against that did it! So did many others.
Skittles
(170,197 posts)I hope it continues....
CrispyQ
(40,804 posts)Can I get an amen?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)are driven to become what they and society need them to be. Not just somewhat better.
Most of those who are leaving churches seek alternative spirituality through things like yoga, positive thinking, crystals, or, very often, load up a spiritual shopping basket with their favorite church dogma to serve in a deconstructed version. Religion will always be with us because many people need it, and that means we need good ones.
Not me, but god help us all when those who do are seeking their spiritual fix from their favorite Tucker Carlson or Bill Maher figure instead.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)benefits for those who grow their own. Plus culinary and other benefits from some herbs themselves. Herb gardening's wonderful, and that some base alternative woo-woo faith systems around them is hardly their fault.

Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Nature worship makes perfect sense to me.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)with rosemary on both sides. Cold-hardy variety and one of the things the deer don't touch, it's always a joy.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)The most visible face of modern Christianity is prosperity gospel, mammon, and politics.

Useless in FL
(329 posts)CrispyQ
(40,804 posts)love of money being the root of all evil, sort of got lost in all the hating on women & gays & everyone else they don't like. I wish their stupid rapture would happen & suck them all away.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)
erronis
(23,082 posts)Not naming any former evangelical spouses, tho.
Owning the libs, no doubt!
mountain grammy
(28,804 posts)keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)
Rebl2
(17,525 posts)isnt it
msfiddlestix
(8,169 posts)phoenix75
(291 posts)and the perfection we observe in Nature gives me more peace and comfort than traditional religion ever did.
erronis
(23,082 posts)These terms don't belong to some theistic group. They are much more basic than cult words. They try to talk about the underlying "science" of what surrounds us.
phoenix75
(291 posts)"Constantly regard the universe as one living being, having one substance and one soul."
Peace Love and Joy 🙏
SheltieLover
(78,208 posts)Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
doc03
(38,930 posts)the so-called legitimate churches covering for clergy that molest kids. I can live an honest life without them.
lindysalsagal
(22,840 posts)Now, we have to grow up and take care of each other.
Biophilic
(6,469 posts)It does feel like we may have finally out grown our childhood and we're just trying to figure out how to adult.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Xolodno
(7,319 posts)Getting into politics, social issues, confrontational evangelism, mega churches, etc. would eventually disenfranchise people. They didn't care or believe it. As the number of converts were up and the coffers were being filled.
There were warning signs about a decade ago, converts dropping off, those identifying as religious but not part of any religion, number of people no longer attending creeping up, etc.
Now its being laid to bare. Irony, their confrontational tactics are now getting more desperate and sometimes police have to intervene as they are blocking public access on busy streets, their "tracts" littering the spaces, etc.
If you ask me, they don't have a way to fix the problem and the situation will only get worse for them.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)The sharp decline in U.S. religious belief corresponds fairly closely with the rise of the internet. It used to be most Americans lived in areas where others held similar beliefs. They reinforced each other's dogma daily. Now they can just google things like "Is there a god?" and instantly get a range of opinions, many of them "No." They can quickly compare notes and realize that others think that the emperor is buck nekked, too. Religion thrives in darkness and isolation. We're seeing that exposure to sunlight makes it go away.
erronis
(23,082 posts)They look for anything to advance their agendas. Most of which revolves around making money and tricking rubes.
Turbineguy
(39,910 posts)fleeing to fundie mega churches with multi millionaire preachers.
IronLionZion
(50,994 posts)judesedit
(4,587 posts)Conjuay
(2,964 posts)Emile
(41,375 posts)Upthevibe
(10,106 posts)Thanks for this post....
HardPort
(1,474 posts)That's a leading cause of atheism.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,961 posts)The older "mainstream" Protestant churches (Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist) as well as some of the smaller sects have been closing doors. In some cases, it is a result of schisms driving members away over topics like same-sex marriage. The Catholic church has shed members due to the sex scandals. In other cases, it is that towns and neighborhoods have changed. But mostly (as surveys have shown) it's that the traditional services don't appeal to young families. Larger mega-churches hold bigger crowds than their older counterparts, and look more like theaters than what you think a traditional church looks like. They have professional/semi-professional musicians that play contemporary Christian songs heard in most markets on FM stations.
erronis
(23,082 posts)I've seen nice high-class restaurants that I can't afford.
And food distribution sites. Perhaps homeless shelters.
Some clean needle exchanges. Some private sex encounter areas with all the necessary sanitary supplies.
Death With Dignity locations.
Waste storage. Bomb shelters (not very good).
I'm sure there are a lot of uses. But, PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW RELIGION BACK IN!
genxlib
(6,102 posts)While a number of sizable mega churches are swimming in money, there is a lot of pressure on smaller churches.
While they have escaped taxes, they are not immune from increasing costs in real estate, utilities, insurance and staffing.
On the opposite side of the table, I think people are finding it harder to turn over huge chunks of money when they are getting by on less themselves
It should also be noted that tax changes have hurt all charities. While nominally still tax deductible, donations are rarely saving on taxes now due to the large standard deduction.
It is hard for small churches to survive in this environment
czarjak
(13,512 posts)Cant imagine todays youth going in for it either.
vercetti2021
(10,481 posts)Drown it in a fucking tub.
h
Aussie105
(7,720 posts)Someone can be religious, in the sense of following the humanitarian parts of the Bible, without ever going to Church.
Once organised religious churches turn to politics and teaching against the Bible a lot of people get turned off.
Of course, reports of kiddy fiddling by the clergy and TV evangelicals wanting your money are a turn off too.
Need religion? Yes!
Need Churches? No.
Happy Hoosier
(9,445 posts)Aussie105
(7,720 posts)as a humanitarian?
You are right though; your personal internal moral and social rules and standards need not be confused with religion.
Or labelled as such.
Happy Hoosier
(9,445 posts)I do my best to make the world a better place. Call it enlightened self interest . I want to live im a good world and so I must seek to help create one as much as I can.
paleotn
(21,823 posts)are universal truths. No religion is required. If you want to dress it up with fanciful bullshit, that's your choice, but the two are NOT mutually inclusive.
True Blue American
(18,579 posts)Is what Christians are supposed to follow!
303squadron
(791 posts)"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
treestar
(82,383 posts)and turning away from Christianity are two different things. They need to research that and not assume.
Happy Hoosier
(9,445 posts)Aussie105
(7,720 posts)Are three separate things.
Just about every religion has the last aspect as a fundamental tenet.
One very old religion predating Christianity was entirely based on that. Zoroastrianism. Worth Googling.
TlalocW
(15,674 posts)A lot of the loss comes from younger generations not feeling the church is necessary because
1. They saw the hypocrisy of "loving" Christians as they abandoned everything they gave lip service to to support hateful policies and people - long before but definitely culminating with Donald Trump.
2. The internet - there's no hiding anymore and hoping things blow over. Tangible newspapers and the six-o'clock news can't report on everything - like Catholic and Protestant sex scandals, and commenters often look at things from another angle than journalists.
3. The internet part deux. Being a "NONE" used to be harder before the internet, but finding people like you online is encouraging, and it's led many to step out of the closet and meet in real life.
4. Their gay uncle, lesbian aunt, non-binary cousin, etc. are not the monsters they've been portrayed as.
niyad
(130,454 posts)productive. One of my favourites in San Diego was a church building that became a very nice nightclub. Locally, a former church building became the offices of our local independent, alternative paper.
bringthePaine
(1,806 posts)paleotn
(21,823 posts)I will dance a happy dance on religion's grave.
gopiscrap
(24,590 posts)with dying churches interesting article
Warpy
(114,503 posts)the population of potential church goers is declining. Immigration isn't fixing that completely, as many immigrants are no longer from predominately Christian countries.
While Millennials and Zoomers are generally soured on religion in general because of the horrible mischief that happens when religion plays politics and politics tries to influence religion, attendance might increase slightly when they have kids and those kids want to be able to join their school chums in church youth groups, it happened to unbeliever Boomer friends of mine.
What remains to be seen is whether they go to the big, dazzling showbiz venue megachurches that are big on politics and prosperity theology that makes the preacher real prosperous, or if they opt for the little, friendly neighborhood churches. What I don't expect is any major increase in the number of atheists, few of us are ready to fly without a net.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)Perhaps church attendance would not be declining if 'witnessing' for their faith did not include protecting pedophile priests/pastors, supporting sexual predators like Trump and using the faith to gain riches.
But did include "love thy neighbor" more than 'begrudge thy neighbor'.
Pat Robertson, Franklin Graham and their ilk are CBR - Cash Based Religion.
Judas was an early, modern-day, conservative disciple.
Judas got 30 pieces of silver, but just once, for selling Christ.
Franklin Graham, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson, and their ilk get millions of dollars repeatedly for selling Christ.
Judas was a fool for doing a one-time sale.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Religious dogma thrives in isolation where people will swallow the same silly stories because everyone they know, including their parents, have swallowed them.
That doesn't work so well in the age of the internet, when people can instantly find out that millions of people are noting that the emperor is buck nekkid.
TygrBright
(21,323 posts)BlueWaveNeverEnd
(13,417 posts)IrishAfricanAmerican
(4,420 posts)Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)working out for christo-fascist religious charlatans?
The sad trumpet plays...wah, wah, waaah.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)EnergizedLib
(2,982 posts)There is no God and the Bible is a work of fiction, even though others are free to worship as they wish.
Torchlight
(6,514 posts)First three quarters are always packed, last three pews are fifty-fifty these days making it a sight easier to get in and out. Sure, it's an already small congregation, but in our tiny chapel, even a handful of people can feel stifling on a July morning.
