Something that needs discussed about this "fair tax"

[jmowreader]

From their own website: “Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on the purchase of new goods and services.”

Here’s what that means in simple terms. We’ll call this The Tale of Two Fishing Boats.

AK McCallum in Fayetteville, NC, has a Lowe L1648 Jon boat with 25hp motor and trailer sitting on their lot for $14,999. I am certain other Lowe dealers have the same boat for the same price; I picked this dealer because I used to print their catalogs. Because the boat is new, it will be subject to a FairTax of $4500.

HMY Yacht Sales in Dania, FL, currently lists a 2006 model year 68-foot Hatteras sport fishing yacht with 2000 horsepower worth of MTU diesel engines. This vessel is five feet wider than the Lowe is long. They want $1.7 million for it. Because it is not new - what is the current euphemism for a used boat that costs the better part of $2 million? - its FairTax is not one thin dime.

The odds that American industry will make it out of the first year of a sales tax that doesn’t at least apply to new goods are less than zero. Who the hell would pay 30 percent tax on a new item when tax-free used ones that do the same thing are available? And let’s be real: the rich don’t buy new things anyway. They want things with a past, like a movie star’s dress or an author’s car.

[rampartc]

1. a .5% tax on financial transactions would pay the national debt rather quickly

but we know that no "fair tax" will ever apply to sales of stocks and derivatives.

perhaps our bargaining point should be no tax on necessities but put the "fair tax" on financial traansactions?

[Layzeebeaver]

3. A great concept!

Unfortunately, there are likely a wide number of financial trading institutions who are donating to ALL the congress.

Correct Citizens United, and then we can attack the Money People!

EDIT: When I say "Attack" I meat it metaphorically - rather we must do it thru the courts and thru legislation - not physically.

[rampartc]

16. +1

bernie has been pushing this "financial transactions tax" idea since his first presidential campaign.

[Layzeebeaver]

2. I hate the idea of a National Sales Tax replacing income tax

However, VAT exists across the world - and could be implemented in the US if done with sensitivity. Perhaps VAT exemption cards for low wage earners.

Income tax is a strange thing - What we really need is a "wealth tax" - if you have wealth ("Excessive" for example, but definitions are important) then you should be required to release a part of it back into the economy thru a structured tax.

Now, full disclosure... I'm an Expat living in the U.K. If the RePigs pass a national sales tax and eliminate the IRS, then Happy Days! for me. no more bank account reporting, no more £600 a year tax filing costs. etc. etc. I've also been out of work for 2.5 years. Running low at the moment...

[MichMan]

4. Used vehicles are routinely assessed state sales taxes.

Last edited Mon Jan 23, 2023, 08:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Cars, Trucks, boats, campers and others are all taxed by the DMV when titles are transferred.

Ebay charges state sales taxes on purchases of used and new goods as well.

I would assume a national sales tax would be handled the same way. VAT taxes are widely used in Europe and Canada, so it's not like it hasn't been done before.

There may be other good reasons to oppose a tax like this, but I don't this one is as big of a concern as the OP suggests

[uncle ray]

5. i don't think any used vehicle i bought from a private party cost more than $100.

also, every used vehicle i've purchased, the seller has left the sales price blank on the title.

[MichMan]

7. There are always some people who try and commit tax fraud

I had a friend that worked at the DMV. There were always those that claimed a five year old car worth $10k was bought for $250. He would just flag it for review by the state as potential fraud.

Regardless of the tax code, there are always a certain amount of people that try and game the system to avoid paying taxes. I have met several that are all in favor of tax increases, as long as other people are the ones paying them.

[uncle ray]

10. I would never defraud the government.

[sl8]

17. Their proposal specifically preludes taxing used items. nt

[hlthe2b]

6. You miss the point. It isn't just luxury goods-- it is 30% on RENT, presumedly GROCERIES

Last edited Mon Jan 23, 2023, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)

CLOTHING, GAS, ESSENTIALS, including SERVICES. I'm sorry for the small boat builder/seller, but I'm a hell of a lot more concerned about the soon-to-be homeless when rent gets taxed at 30%!!!!

[MichMan]

9. What states currently levy sales taxes on rent?

[hlthe2b]

11. I am NOT talking about state taxes, but the Republican PROPOSAL for 30% tax to

replace Federal INCOME TAX! The tax includes goods AND SERVICES, while ending income tax and any taxes on wealth. This is what those MTG extremists are proposing.

While I don't think they will be successful, it behooves ALL OF US to become informed about their intent. Not at the state level but in CONGRESS.

[MichMan]

12. I haven't seen the proposal yet to know what would and wouldn't be included

The only thing we have for comparison are state sales taxes that exempt many items and services.

It isn't going to be enacted anyway

[hlthe2b]

13. Please don't argue points I did not make which includes my comment it won't be passed

NOW. I realize you haven't been following this issue, but it really is important to inform ourselves as to what the extremists in the RW Congress have in mind. The discussed proposals by its various proponents are wild, and extreme, and will undoubtedly change as blowback builds, but you can start with a google of "Fair Tax Act 2023."

I am fully aware of state tax exemptions. We are NOT talking about that.

[Johnny2X2X]

8. Dems need to put numbers on it

The rich would see their tax rates go to next to nothing, the poor and middle class would see their tax rates explode.

Someone making $several million a year who is just hoarding their money might see their effective tax rate go to 1% while someone making $40K or $80K a year who spends all their earnings to survive would be paying 30%.

[brooklynite]

14. "the rich don't buy new things anyway."

Lazy stereotyping. By that theory, there wouldn't be high priced new items (iPhones/Teslas/luxury condos) because nobody would be buying them.

[jmowreader]

20. There's a line from the Freak Brothers comics that applies here

“The rich didn’t get rich by paying top dollar for everything.”

The Rich - the seriously loaded old-money guys, not people like Trump - almost always buy used. If a Tesla can be bought for $60,000 used and $100,000 new, and they do the same thing, why spend the extra $40,000?

[brooklynite]

21. I don't get my wisdom from comic books...

Do you have any actual economic data?

[Wounded Bear]

15. Sales taxes are among the most regressive form of taxation...

Trust me, I live in a state that relies on sales taxes and has no income tax.

As a percentage of income, poor people will always pay more in sales taxes than rich people.

[MichMan]

18. Why do so many countries like Canada and the EU have VAT taxes?

[themaguffin]

19. "Fair" tax regressive tax that hurts lower income people & GREATLY reduces taxes on the wealthy.