The medical industry has jumped the shark

[DenaliDemocrat]

I have RA. I had a total hip replacement yesterday. The nurse kept pushing me to NOT take oxycodone and instead “keep taking Tylenol for mild pain”. I told her no, Tylenol is generally shit and I want my pain pills because they sawed a bone off and hammered a big piece of metal in its place”. She told me I said my pain was a six and they don’t give oxy until it’s at a seven.

They sent me home with 24 pills (enough for 2 days) and fucking Narcan. I do NOT have a history of drug use or abuse

This is fucking nuts!

[Archae]

1. The "pill mills" that catered to junkies ruined it for you.

They kept pushing so many pain pills on communities that didn't need that much, and now there is a whole generation of junkies, who made big profits for the pill mill pushers.

[questionseverything]

8. Actually it's government's' reaction to the "pill mills "

And honestly some of those people addicted to those pills were probably trying to deal with pain from medical issues they couldn’t afford to address

That’s what for profit healthcare gets us

[Ms. Toad]

13. This!!! n/t

[iscooterliberally]

45. +1. The reaction from the prohibitionists is insane.

I can buy a fifth of whiskey, tobacco and drive a vehicle that weighs tons, but I can't buy a bottle of pain pills? The real reason so many people are dying is because they get cut off and end up buying on the street. That's when they OD on fentanyl. This entire attitude that people addicted to opiates are looked down upon as junkies is horrible. To me it's like looking down on a person who is staving for stealing food. People are also addicted to alcohol, sex, gambling and many other things that are terrible for them. I've read that alcohol kills way more people than opiates. Maybe we should ban that too? Oh wait....

[LymphocyteLover]

63. indeed, well said

[calimary]

62. Indeed.

Indeed.

[leftstreet]

79. +1

[ForgedCrank]

86. There is another

layer to this as well.
I know person one very well who used vicoden to survive life due to a degenerative condition in their back. The pills kept her upright and moving, able to work and lead a relatively normal life. This person navigated this life for over 25 years. After having so many surgeries and attempts to fix it, the pills were really the only option left, and it worked. This person became dependent on the pills multiple times as a result, but it was a known factor and as long as it was kept under control, it was just another side-effect. She would stop taking them at intervals in order to "reset" because they would have a drastically reduced effect on the pain over time, and those stretches going without would allow her to regain the benefit of taking them as well as cull the dependency. These periods of time in between were very difficult for her, usually getting around on crutches, and on the worst days, a wheelchair.
Then when all of this outrage appeared, doctors started clamming up, and her doctor was one of them. They were pressured and threatened, so they have no choice but to just stop writing them up and send her to a "pain clinic" where they basically told her that physical therapy would fix this. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard from supposed medical professionals.
Due to all of this, she eventually had to quit her job and go on disability, and it was all because of the assholes who abused it and got a bunch of hand-wringers to push lawmakers into doing stupid stuff. Now she gets around with crutches, and can't get out of a chair without help and extreme pain. These jerks hurt a lot of people without even considering them.

[questionseverything]

89. Well said

[ProfessorGAC]

114. I Could Have Written Exactly What You Did...

...about my wife. And, she was never on anything stronger than Norco.
And, there would be times where her 30 day supply would last 45! So, abuse was obviously not a concern. They could easily review the scrip dates.
But, even pain doctors won't dispense anymore.
And, that physical therapy thing is for the birds. She tried twice. Both times, it did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Fortunately for my wife the back got much worse after she retired young. (51) So, she didn't have to go to disability.

[Crunchy Frog]

97. They shut those down ten years ago. They need to move on and adapt to current reality.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. It's ridiculous.

Patients in legitimate pain are paying because some people become junkies. They’ve even cut some elderly people’ s doses in hospice because they’re afraid of “addiction”. And they’ve succeeded in getting pain pills off the street. Except now fentanyl’s dominant and it’s far worse than standard opioids.

[pirsquared]

23. Pain management; At age 93-95 addiction is not sinful

Pain management is known to be vital in recovery and rehab. My Mom died in pain because they were 'concerned' that she would be an addict. At 93! Who cares? Being an addict merely means you have to have the drug in order to be normal. True, as time goes on you need more.

At age 93-95 who should care? The gov't? The moral purists? Sister Theresa? Who believed pain was spiritually cleansing and godly.

[betsuni]

54. Same thing happened to my mother-in-law.

She had terrible back pain and could hardly move, but no pain medication in case in her eighties she became an addict. On the other hand, my husband has a bad knee and doctor gave him lots of pain medication. What the hell. (This isn't in the U.S.).

[Evolve Dammit]

27. Yes. It's why you can't buy Contac, Sudafed or Musinex D (anything with pseudophedrine) which

actually worked (Nyquil too; the original was a great product, new stuff sucks). Meth heads ruined it all and now they tighten the screws on any opiates. When I was a kid, I received multiple remedies that are now verbotten. They WORKED and I never got "addicted." The whole medical system is a joke.

[inthewind21]

102. Meth heads?

Pretty sure the Opiate cluster was the result of greedy pharma who had a bunch of greedy sales people hook up with greedy doctors who wrote prescription's for anyone and everyone like they were 5th grade love notes. You might want to re-think just who played what roll in the "everyone needs to be on Opiates" addiction saga. Hint, it's wasn't the meth heads in the alley's waiting in line outside the pill mills. It was Susie cheerleader from Hometown USA who broke her ankle and then found herself an opiate addict. And so on and so on. And FYI, yes, you can Sill but Nyquill and Mucinex D and such.

[questionseverything]

112. The meth heads bought the cold medicine and cooked it to make meth

[Evolve Dammit]

116. Yeah meth derived from the pseudophedrine contained therein. Was, and is a problem. nt

[Rebl2]

47. That's unbelievable

They reduce the amount for hospice patients because they are afraid they will get addicted. They have lost their efing minds.

[JanMichael]

51. Yep. That is literally insane. Ok you are dying BUT we don't want an addiction!

Fucking puritan morons.

[inthewind21]

103. hmm

I don't know what Hospice is doing that but I have been through hospice with my Mother, Father, brother and Aunt all in the last 5 years, as recent as 6 months ago and that was NOT my experience. Hospitals, yes, but Hospice, no. At least not the Hospice that took care of my family.

[Rebl2]

105. Haven't had

a lot of experience with hospice, but wasn’t my experience either.

[ProfessorGAC]

115. Our Friend Just Died In Hospice

Just this past December. They were treating pain with morphine, so the "addiction" concern wasn't foolishly applied there, either.

[madville]

3. Making a note on the pain scale

Will say it’s a 9 in between moans and screams

[Auggie]

30. +1

[reACTIONary]

57. Yes, that was a good tip! No less than 9. nt.

[Crunchy Frog]

98. That got me fuck all when I was in the ER with a kidney stone. Just a warning.

[yardwork]

4. That sounds like the standard of care now.

You can take an Oxy every 6 hours, with temporarily high doses of Tylenol in between. They'll want you to begin tailing back on the Oxy after several days.

You don't want to get addicted to Oxy.

[DenaliDemocrat]

7. I've had two spinal fusions and a knee replacement

And I’m not addicted. Their standard of care was to keep me in moderate pain when they had the ability to help, but didn’t want to because I MIGHT turn into an addict. Fucking stupid policies

And I’m a biochemist and I can provide a truckload of papers showing Tylenol does next to nothing for this kind of pain. They push it to keep their conscious clear - but it doesn’t work

[Ms. Toad]

15. The only pain Tylenol ever touches for me

is a sore throat.

I had declared it completely useless, but then for some reason took it when I had a sore throat and lo and behold, it actually got rid of the pain.

[Nictuku]

21. Ibuprofen does better for most of my pain

But I take it with a Norco. Combined really seems to do the trick for me. I take one of each in the early morning (so I can get out of bed) and another in the late afternoon (if I take it too late, it keeps me up at night)

I don't know what I would do if my doctor cuts me off! I'm always careful to not ask for more, even though I would like to.

I had a Laminectomy for sciatica pain about 10 years ago, and I have DDD (Degenerative Disk Disease), and on top of that, awful arthritis in my hands. My knobby fingers make me look like I'm in my 80-90's, but I'm only 61.

I have to sign this pain med contract with the doctor, and they want me to give a pee test.

I found out that hard way that they are testing to /find/ the prescription in your system. (Otherwise, they think you are selling it).

I was with Kaiser, and I was very open an honest with my doctor, and admitted to some marijuana use. This was before it became legal in my state for recreational use. That doctor gave me 30 days to re-take the pee test because she said I couldn't use marijuana /and/ the prescription. So I quite the marijuana (which is a cultural norm for my family, my mom even smoked at the time, but she doesn't now). Anyway, I was so proud of myself for stopping the marijuana, I was ready to re-take the test.

My big mistake: I was still working then, and had to get up at 3 am to be out of the house by 4, 1/2 hour drive to the Van Pool pickup, then the hour long drive to the city, BART to work. So I took my meds when I woke up at 3 (so I could get out of bed), and I took the test at around 1:00 pm (too early for my 2nd dose of the day), and the tests came back with nothing for the NorCo! It had already worked out of my system. The doctor said that wasn't possible (but it is what happened!) I was so mad. I couldn't freaking believe it! She cut me off. She treated me like I was a criminal. I was so angry.

The good thing was that it was right around the time where you can change your insurance company, and as much as I liked Kaiser, I left it and went to a small town doctor that my mom went to. Been there ever since.

The new doctor, after about a year, wanted me to sign the same thing, but she never asked me about Marijuana, and I never offered. And when I signed the form, I noticed that marijuana was crossed out (it had only become legal recently and they hadn't updated their form).

Long story short, if you are on pain meds from your doctor, and have to do the pee test, be sure that you have the meds in question in your system or they will think you are a dealer. (Good Grief!)

[Ms. Toad]

32. I know how painful degenerative disk disease can be.

My mom (age 91) has completely lost several of her disks. She swims several miles a week - and used to always complain about the water not being cold enough. But recently she was forced to use the exercise pool (too warm and too small for longer swims), and discovered how much better she feels after exercising in warm water.

Kaiser . . . outside of California . . . I made the mistake of opting into it the first time because I like the model of care they use. Unfortnuately, they couldn't keep their doctors in Ohio in the 70s. Every single time I went in for my annual physical my primare care doctor had left and I had to be assigned a new one. Pretty much destroyed the concept of having a single doc who knew you well coordinate your care. The second time I had no choice. It was, at the time, the only insurance company which would insure my same-gender spouse - so my company selected it. Administratively it was a nightmare. It consisted of three independent corporations - one to process the initial assessment of claims as in network or not, a second one to process in network claims, and a third to process out-of-network claims. They miscoded one of my claims (which has a long trail of subsequent interactions). It took me 200 hours on the phone with customer service in the two of the three corporations I was allowed to communicate with in order to get it all straightened out.

Fortunately, I don't take narcotics for chronic pain - so when they tally up the narcotics I'm on all they see are my sleeping pills and it doesn't raise any flags. But treating everyone like they are junkies (or pill-pushers) adds to the burden of people already bearing a heavier load than most due to their chronic pain.

Glad you found a solution - at least as to maintaining the amount of meds you need to make your pain manageable.

[Nictuku]

38. Kaiser - I really liked it, and was glad I had it for my surgery

The great thing about Kaiser, is if you get referred, you are not paying another co-pay. The insurance I ended up going with (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) had higher co-pays, so it was more out of pocket, but it did cost a bit less in the premium.

I had the same thing happen, I was so glad I had Kaiser for the back surgery, I had to go to the Oakland facility for the surgery, but I felt like I was in very good hands. Extremely professional. I liked that everything was pretty much in-house.

But my GP who oversaw the surgery retired a few months later, and the doctor that was assigned to me after that was the heartless bitch who thought I was a drug dealer.

I am grateful that it ended up working out for me, but I am a strong advocate against these nazi policies about pain meds for people with chronic pain.

So, if I have to take, say some kind of heart medicine for the rest of my life, is that not also considered addicted? If these 2 pills make me able to be productive and ease my pain, what is the difference if I take them for the rest of my life? I certainly don't get 'high' from them (not any more, at first I must admit to feeling very euphoric, but that vanished long ago).

I hate the stigma that is attached to it. I never ever admitted to any of my co workers that I took these twice a day (for the last 10 years), if I wasn't able to maintain my job because of it, then yes, I had a problem. But that was never the case, and I had to be very 'on line' and alert and available to help people at my job. But yet I live in fear my doctor will eventually cut me off. Please, God, No!

[yardwork]

17. I'm sorry you're in so much pain.

[Evolve Dammit]

29. Tylenol does nothing for me either. Might as well be placebo. Aspirin works better.

[colorado_ufo]

36. Be VERY careful with Tylenol!!!

You can develop liver toxicity very quickly.

[Nictuku]

46. That is very important

Tylenol is very hard on the Liver. (Ibuprofen has more an effect on kidneys).

I think that a lot of the people who OD'd on things like Norco or Vicoden has more to do with taking too much Tylenol vs the Opioid. Both have them have Tylenol, Norco has less Tylenol and more Opioid. I've never taken Oxycontin(sp?) so I don't know if Tylenol is in that as well or not.

So if people are trying to get high from the Opioid, they take more and more and more of the Norco/Vicoden/Oxycontin, without thinking about how much Tylenol they are taking.

That is one reason why I /never/ ask for more from my doctor, fearing that she might cut me off if I do. I would like to take 2 Norco's in the morning and 2 at night, but it is not worth asking for it. I think that is a red flag for doctors, asking to up the dose.

And the saddest thing about all this is, if you cut (chronic pain) patients off of prescription pain killers, what do you think they will do? They will seek out illegal pain solutions, and that is where the Fentinal(sp?) comes in to play with all these ODs. That stuff is very dangerous. Small amounts of it can kill. And what is sold on the streets is mostly made from illegal drug shops, who knows what the heck they put in it... Scary.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

5. Well, there's no harm with having Narcan around ...

I doubt a hospital could find medical records showing I was a raging junkie at one point ... but I was. For the general public, they would rather be safe than sorry and that seems okay to me.

I definitely understand wanting your pain pills for something like that, tho. The hoops (and the highly limited supplies) are some BS.

Hope you're up on your feet again soon

[Nictuku]

50. Does Narcan address taking too much Acetaminophen ?

Just curious. My understanding that it is for too much opioids in your system.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

56. No, it does not, obviously (as I'm sure is your point).

However let me just mention that my best friend had a Vicodin habit of taking 30-40 5(hydro)/500(apap) pills a day back in the 90's.

And I mean everyday, 15,000mg-20,000mg a day of acetaminophen. For like ... 6 months.

He's still alive, nearly 30 years later. His liver readings are also fine last we spoke.

And in this context he was only taking so much ... to get the opioids. No average person is going to take 20-30 ES Tylenol every day, because extra APAP pills do basically nothing.

So your point is kinda moot, just saying.

[Nictuku]

61. Actually, I didn't know

I was just curious to know whether or not it did address both.

I think it should, if there is such a thing available for an OD of too much Acetaminophen.

I'm old and might be slow here, when you said "30-40" Pills a day?!? OMG, and here I'm all worried about my 2/day being cut off. That is amazing, and yes, that will kill people for sure.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

70. Yes, 30-40 a day. He was an addict, this was a lot of doctor/pharmacy shopping

around 1994-1995. He didn't have 'a doctor', he had like 15 of them (and about as many pharmacies), if you know what I'm saying. Things were different then.

They do have medication for Tylenol OD's but you can only get them in an ER type scenario.

But probably 90% of acute Tylenol OD's ... are either opioid addicts who's only opioids are ones with Tylenol mixed into the pills (i.e. vicodin/percocet) ... and people trying to kill themselves.

My point was ... most people (well, aside from those with existing liver issues) can actually take a shitload of Tylenol over a relatively short period of time. It'll mess you up if you use it excessively for years and years though for sure.

[Nictuku]

72. Same with Ibuprophen

I lean on that more, I don't take anything else that has Acetaminophen in it, and I cut my Ibu 800's in half and take only 400 at a time, because I am concerned about the longevity of use. My last labs came out good though, so I think I'm good.

I had Hep C when I was in my 30's, caught it early and had a horrible treatment that made me a zombie for about 6 months. But now it is undetectable. There were some side effects from the treatment. That is another story no one wants to hear.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

76. Liver damage profile from ibuprofen is significantly lower than with Tylenol

Ibuprofen is processed by the Kidneys, not the Liver. So given the Hep-C, good thing you stopped with it.

But it has other issues like it can cause ulcers and bleeding if used all the time.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

77. Ask me about the days when I needed to sniff 80mg of oxycodone just to get out of bed in the AM

And then would do 2-3 80mg doses over the remainder of the day ... just to feel normal/slightly buzzed.

Those were ... bad times.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

93. Yeah, my best friend and I were pretty bad off for awhile there

I'm lucky I didn't get into the opioids til well after he did (which ... you THINK I'd have figured out ... Don't do what Dave is doing!) ... that was when the Oxycontin came out, and my broke dad with major back issues started being Rx'd them like candy. No APAP in those, just pure, crushable, delicious dope.

Those friggin' original green Purdue Pharma OC80's, man ... shit, I still have dreams about the fuckers sometimes. That formulation went off the market around 2006, but in my dreams, someone actually still has some

[Hugh_Lebowski]

96. Went to a doctor and got on buprenorphine

Moved to my family's cabin 3.5 hours from any connections, lived alone and weaned down, my Aunt lived nearby, and the last couple months would dispense them to me in less and less quantities. Then when I stopped I went to mom's house in the Bay Area so she could take care of me and kicked there.

However, I really didn't get down low enough on the bupe to not still have really bad withdrawals. I'd been opioids for like 4 years at that point.

Once I got off I stayed 100% sober for 3 years, went to meetings etc. By then I had 0 connections, the oxys weren't around anymore, and I lived in Arizona w/my girlfriend who didn't mess with drugs other than pot. And I never went on any significant opioid binge after that.

So, now I'm just an alcoholic.

[MLAA]

6. I am so sorry to hear that.

Husband just had 6 teeth pulled, bone transplant and implants started. 3.5 hour surgery. He was given 2 days worth of hydrocodone-acetaminophen. He doesn’t react well to opiates so I asked the dentist what else he could use if he didn’t react well to the prescription. He said extra strength Tylenol plus 3 ibuprofen every 6 hours. That had done the trick as long as we stay ahead of it and don’t delay or skip doses. I am not comparing his dental surgery to a replaced hip! That, I understand can be excruciating. A couple years ago husband husband fell and broke his hip and was in excruciating pain for a couple of weeks due to not being able to take the opiates.

I wonder if your surgeon’s office would give you a longer prescription ?

Sending you 💗💗💗💗.

[Demsrule86]

20. People are going to lose their livers with this sort of shit.

Both Tylenol and ibuprofen are dangerous and being overused.

[Mosby]

9. Drs didn't do this, lawyers did.

Nt.

[DenaliDemocrat]

10. Dr.s take an oath to do no harm

I am being harmed

[Celerity]

69. In lawyer-enriching and for profit healthcare America, the bottom line plus lawsuit fears trump any

any oaths your doctors take.

#facts

[LakeArenal]

11. Exactly the same for me. With the addition of...

In my second hip replacement he fractured my femur driving in the rod. I had to spend 10 days in a nursing home. It was Labor Day weekend. They prescribed the wrong painkillers. Ones that made me sick to my stomach. I went without any painkillers but advil for five days before a doctor prescribed the correct ones.

[Skittles]

12. did they charge you, like, 1200 bucks for those pills

such a fucking scam

[brewens]

14. I've had my right hip, right knee and both shoulders replaced in the last 20 months. I think

I got a weeks worth of hydrocodone every time. It may have been a little less for the shoulders because I also had a pain pump installed. That pumps a little local anesthetic in at intervals.

[moonscape]

40. I had shoulder surgery and the pain pump

was brilliant for me. It was so effective I didn’t need to take a single oral med even though they prescribed hydrocodone as back-up and for when I came off the pump. Couldn’t believe it!

[Tetrachloride]

16. I had a single dose of a heavy duty painkiller (don't remember which)

However, the pharmacy policy was to be slow and not even call the doctor to verify.

So i went home without my prescription.

In general it took me 15-20 minutes to go up (or down) a flight of stairs for a month or so.

[thesquanderer]

18. I've never been comfortable with the whole "assign your pain a number" idea.

It's abstract, and while your pain may objectively exist, exactly where you think it is on some scale you invent in your mind is inherently subjective.

[BobTheSubgenius]

34. If asked that, always answer "42."

If it was good enough for Douglas Adams, it's good enough for that arbitrary and vague question.

[Aristus]

37. Yeah, I hate that, too. It shouldn't be considered a vital sign.

Because all of the other vital signs, blood pressure, respiration, O2 saturation, etc, at least have a way of measuring them with a certain level of objectivity, and standards by which they are measured.

"It's a TEN, man!" That can often make red flags go up.

There have been times I've entered an exam room, and have a perfectly healthy-looking twenty year-old kid in there, no visible distress, vital signs all within normal limits (pain can definitely jack your blood pressure, heart rate, and respiration), and he'll say "I've got ten out of ten back pain, and the only thing that helps it is Percocet."

And of course, using clinical judgement to decide if a patient needs opioids is an invitation to shrieks of malpractice, sadism, and more.

[iscooterliberally]

53. I'm an old meat sack of broken bones.

I crashed my Harley in South Florida right at the height of the pill mill craze. I was in the hospital for a week and and surgery on both arms. After that healed and the casts came off I went in for my ACL surgery. I had to withdraw from opiates at the end and honestly I would take that over a hang over any day of the week. I had some cravings and looked into one of the pill mills. They told me all I had to do was bring in my MRI scans and $300 cash and they would give my a 90 day supply. My first thought was, $300 for about $30 worth of pills? Fuck that. I guess I was just physically dependent rather than addicted. As an adult I can handle all sorts of things much more dangerous than this. I've learned to keep moving and get some moderate exercise in to manage pain. It would be nice if as an adult over the age of 21 I could walk into a pharmacy and buy a handful of pain pills without a prescription. At least I would know that I'm getting what's on the label rather than something laced with fentanyl or even worse. Our government is totally insane when it comes to drugs. I also hate the fact that addicts are called junkies. It's so unfair.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

92. You're lucky you didn't because I'm hear to tell ya ... if you do a lot of opiates daily, for years?

And then suddenly quit? Let's just say, you would sell your soul to just have a regular booze hangover. That would sound like fucking paradise.

Which is to say, there is absolutely no comparison with a hangover, serious opioid withdrawals suck in the hugest way ... and depending on the drug in play, last a solid 7-10 days. Methadone is even longer. That's time where damn near every single second you wish someone would just kill you and put you out of your misery, now.

When I kicked I was UP ... for 4 entire nights, shaking, sweating, spasming, tossing, feeling like my bones themselves were itchy, stuck inside a toxic fleshy prison. I desperately wanted to rip my entire skeleton out of my skin.

This LASTED FOR DAYS AND DAYS. And then there's the nausea, the virtual non-stop nasty 'runs', you can't eat, you can't sleep. And holy SHIT are you depressed every moment. And you can't imagine how bad you CRAVE relief. Just one fucking pill, man ... just give me ONE, make this STOP or I'm going TO DIE. Which then leads to absolute panic. And crying uncontrollably.

And I was kicking in comfort, at mom's house, with my mom taking care of me, and my kitty there. She'd been a nurse, even worked as a nurse in a prison for awhile for extra money. She'd seen it all. I cannot even IMAGINE going thru bad withdrawals in prison, with nobody around who cares about you. I doubt I'd have survived, pretty sure I'd have brained myself against the cell wall.

What I'm saying is ... you can certainly have some withdrawals after week or two on them after surgery, taking them roughly as prescribed, and it might not seem that bad, but all you're getting is 'the vague idea'. Get up to doing 100's of milligrams a day, every single day, for a whole year, or years, and then quit cold turkey? Holy fuck is it bad. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Well, maybe Trump.

[iscooterliberally]

94. I wasn't on them for years thankfully.

I think it was about 6 months for the longest stretch. I've had various opiates many many times over the years though. I've been around all sorts of drugs in my life so I don't like to stay on anything for too long if I can help it. I went through the nausea and sweating and my body felt like it weighed a ton. I never got up to taking 100s of milligrams a day, but when I was in my casts I was taking two pills every 4 hours or so. I would wake up from a dead sleep in pain and take two more. Alcohol hangovers for me have been sometimes violent with the vomiting. That was when I felt like shooting myself just to make it stop. As for opiates I think that people who are addicted should be encouraged to ween themselves off, but if they fall of the wagon they should not be judged and called junkies. They should encouraged to start again. Cutting folks off just sends them to the street dealers and that's the wrong thing to do. Alcoholics can always go have another drink from a bottle that contains exactly what it says it is on the label. They don't have to worry about having to buy bathtub gin because they can't go to a liquor store without a prescription from a doctor. Moonshine if not made correctly can be every bit as deadly as fentanyl. Anyway, I hope you're doing well these days!

[reACTIONary]

58. It's stupid. nt.

[inthewind21]

106. Guess who came up

with the "what's you pain level on a scale of 1-10?". You guessed it Perdue Pharma.

[Delphinus]

19. Oh my ...

I cannot believe that! I had it done five years ago and had morphine as well as oxycodone. Wow! That is incredibly wrong. I'm so sorry you're have to go through this.

[Liberty Belle]

22. Can you get medical cannabis in your state?

I can't take opiates - they dropped my blood pressure so low in hospital they were calling the crash cart to revive me.

So after having skin cancer taking off the top of my scalp and having metal staples there for 3 weeks, Tylenol wasn't enough.

I went to a legal dispensary and got low-dose CBD/THC cannabis gummies. It was enough for me to let me sleep at night and keep the pain minimal during the day.

[OldBaldy1701E]

24. Two-tiered medicine, just like our two-tiered justice.

Sorry, you just are not rich enough. Neither am I. But, the homeowner, who is pretty well off, gets them whenever he asks for them. It is all about the Benjamins.

[Ms. Toad]

25. Precisely why I accept any narcotics prescription offered (whether I need it at the time or not).

refill as many times as they allow, and hoard pills.

I probably have 50 or so on hand, between prescriptions for my spouse's shingles, my spouse's kidney stones, a spiral fracture for me, and multiple surgeries. And that's after some fools broke in and stole all we had in the bathroom cabinet a few years ago. (The fact that I've been able to accumulate 50 or so in the face of recent restrictive prescribing, is a pretty good indication I'm not abusing them.)

I use narcotics when needed - which typically is only the first day, sometimes two, after surgery. Back before people went nuts about opiates, the rule was to stay ahead of the pain - rather than to tamp it down after it had gotten out-of-control. That has always worked for me, and I see no compelling reason to change it. Being in pain hinders healing. I hate that the reaction to abuse of pain medications by some individuals is to treat everyone like they are a drug-seeking junkies.

Fortunately, all my recent surgeries - aside from one - have been outpatient - or bone surgeries which are generally deemed appropriate for pain relief). So I haven't had to answer the question of what I would do if I needed pain meds and the doctors refused to prescribe them while I was in the hospital. I honestly don't know what I would do in those circumstances.

We also need the opiates on hand in case my spouse has another bout of kidney stones. It takes at least 2 weeks before she can make an appointment with her doctor. He can call in a prescription for flo-max (his first option - flush the stones out). But he can't just call in a prescription for opiates, necessary until the stone passes or gets so stuck that she needs a fourth surgery for kidney stones. His advice: Go to the ER simply to get pain meds. That's an incredible waste of resources. The last time we were on traditional insurance, the visit would have cost $250 just to get pills which cost under $20.

It is also a waste of scarce medical resources. The last time I was in an ER connected to the hospital - vomiting uncontrollably for hours - it took 10+ hours to free up an examining room for me. That was only at my insistence, with a few legal threats thrown in. But my spouse is being told to get in that queue simply because doctors cannot prescribe opiates over the phone for a condition which is acutely painful enough that opiates are the standard of care. (We have his blessing to take the opiates we have on hand, should she experience a 4th bout of kidney stones.)

[DenaliDemocrat]

43. Get this, the pharmacist wanted to know if I was interested

Joining a program to dispose of my unused pills. Swear to God. I told her Hell no!

[Ms. Toad]

44. I don't doubt it.

In theory, it's a good idea. Pills which are out-of-date should be disposed or properly so remants of them don't wind up in our water supply (it's a real thing). We dispose of ours through a city program.

That said . . . they can pry the unused narcotics from my cold, dead fingers.

[Nictuku]

48. You are one smart cookie Mrs. Toad!

[Crunchy Frog]

100. I was given nothing for pain when I was in the ER with my kidney stone.

And got yelled at for screaming in pain. The stone took two months to pass, but my doctor got furious at me and accused me of being a drug seeker when I tried to delicately bring up the subject of a small prescription of a mild opioid. She eventual prescribed a small bottle of lowest dose hydrocodone.

It was then that I learned about homemade painkiller using unwashed poppy seeds. I plan to self manage if I'm ever in severe pain again.

[Ms. Toad]

101. Unfortunately, my spouse has had several.

They always have to be surgically removed, or blasted out. So they can look back and see her history.


But, because always have a stash on hand, and the blessing of her doctor to use them, we haven't had to follow his suggestion of going to the ER. Given my bout with pancreatitis, though, when the doctor all but accused me of being a lying alcoholic - because he was ignorant about the frequency of post-COVID pancreatitis -I'm less confident his suggestion would work.

[questionseverything]

113. You should get a safe to store the pills

And don’t let people in rl know you have them

[Ms. Toad]

117. They are now stored in a location that isn't likely to be found.

After the break-in, when we kept them in the usual location for medicines, we changed where we stored them.

If someone breaks in and actually does find them, I'll assume they needed them more than I did and start restocking. Not to mention that the neighborhood "thugs" actually like us - so we're less likely to be broken into in the future. (Without any prompting from us or the police, the neighborhood thugs tape-recorded the folks they knew had broken in to our house confessing to breaking in and handed the tape over to the police.)

We don't quite pay them protection, but they know that if they need a little money we nearly always have odd jobs they can do. We also help them, and their parents, with legal matters. We give them a place to chill when they are sqabbling with their parents. We've prevented some hassling by the police just by making our presence known to the police when they happen to follow one of the neighborhood thugs onto our street to make a pretextual stop. In exchange, although it isn't explicit, they make it clear to their buddies that their buddies are not to mess with us.

[BobTheSubgenius]

26. My wife had just about the opposite experience.

She had a knee replacement, and was sent home with a few Dilaudid to tide her over, and a Rx for 2 weeks worth. At the end of the two weeks, the osteopath (? I think) was more than happy to write another scrip for 2 weeks, but I thought we might want to try a non-narcotic option.

My wife agreed, the Dr. heartily agreed and we filled the scrip. Later that day, she told me that we might need to get the D after all, because this new one wasn't cutting it. Not totally effective at stopping the pain, but just as bad was the way it made her feel - edgy, crawly, and a sense of being constricted. As if she'd been put in a tight-fitting wet suit. then pumped up until it was ultra-tight. A day or so later, she felt much better, though....comparatively speaking, at least.

2 weeks later, another appt, and when she related this to the Dr. he nodded and said "Yes. That was a mild case of opioid withdrawal." YIKES! Well on her way to being addicted after 2 weeks, and i shudder to think of the experience she would have had after another 2 weeks - or 4!!! - of loading up that monkey onto her back.

[GenThePerservering]

68. She would have just needed to cut down the dose gradually

until stopping if she had needed to be on it for longer. That kind of reaction is not uncommon. I had to be on opioids for several months for esophageal shingles and as the pain subsided I naturally cut down gradually and that was it. No problem.

[Kali]

28. I hear that

just had to have my 14 month old knee replacement cleaned and new bushings installed. got 15 pills. WTF? thankfully I have a stash from when I didn't get addicted before.

[TNNurse]

31. This is partly why I do not want to have that second knee replacement.

I remember how painful it was. Would not want to go through it without real pain management. I know I could not do the rehab exercises without it. Mine was in 2017, there were limits but they were tolerable.

[IbogaProject]

33. I have no narcotic abuse history

And somehow I have an innate high tolerance or need for max dose at shortest interval. Some people feel pain more than others and respond less to opiates. I think there is a gene linked to red hair, recessive so not always visible, that makes those and anesthesia meds work less. I can see being careful w anyone under 26 years old. Not being discriminatory but being sensitive their brains are still developing. They should give up the meds after a short guide to risks and getting clean afterwards. One tip is that adequate magnesium levels greatly reduce withdrawal symptoms.

[barbtries]

35. I'm sorry they did that to you.

I just had surgery for kidney stones 11 days ago and was horrified at the way patients were treated, not by the doctors or nurses, but by one of the premium medical centers in the world. Or at least I thought it was: Duke.

It was an outpatient procedure and I think I would have benefited from a night in the hospital. I was also denied opioids for pain, but the upside of that is no constipation - my pain was 7 to 8 when I came home from the hospital but guess what? they never asked me in the hospital for that.

We didn't get the time of the surgery until the day before. Then when we got there, we had to wait for nearly 3 hours before I got a bed. My son had to hang out at the hospital for 10 hours. My nurse could not stay with me through the surgery because she would have exceeded the number of hours she was allowed to work.

All I had to do was pee in order to be pushed out the door, but it took awhile, to where the pharmacy where i regularly get my meds might have closed before we could pick up all my prescriptions. so they had already ordered them from there, then without bothering to cancel them, ordered them again at a 24 hour pharmacy, which cost my son $80.00 because they couldn't get approved twice for the same drugs.

I felt we were treated inhumanely and was outraged. It's been awhile since I had surgery and this was the first time it was done on an outpatient basis, but that whole process sucked balls. All these people waiting and waiting, fasting, can't drink, etc.

All for greed. This is what happens when the money counters design the treatment plan.

[Lunabell]

39. For a total hip replacement?

Omg, that's awful. I am so sorry.

[kimbutgar]

41. I had a hernia operation and they gave me oxycodone I took one and felt no pain

The next day I was in so much pain but I took a Motrin which helped. I have a high pain threshold though.

[MerryBlooms]

83. I had 3 hernias repaired and 27 staples up and down my tummy...

Couldn't walk without a walker, couldnt stand straight, or even GET down or off the pot that whole time. Staples in for 21 days. I was given 10MG hydrocodone with Tylenol. I wasn't functional. I also have a high threshold for pain, after 5 and 4 months in hospital for MRSA in my spine. L2 replacement 5 times. Now I'm rod and plated in L2, and fused from L2 into my pelvis. I'm never not in pain, but I work in home health care for Medicaid. I have been on pain meds for years. Never increased, just rest more when pain is off the chart, don't increase meds, or smoke pot or anything.

I am all for proper pain management. No one should suffer because of personal or political beliefs.

I don't do Marijuana because it makes me fall. I have tried all sorts because the dispenser recommended non high stuff. It was a mess for me. Fell twice, never again.

[kimbutgar]

91. Sorry you suffered so much sounds worst then mine

But I hope you’re feeling better

[we can do it]

42. You can have my oxy. I only used it for 2 days after my hip replacement.

I have a months worth.
Yes you definitely need it right after they cut your bone!!!

[orangecrush]

49. Broken fibula last winter

Went down on the ice

The broken bone was cutting into surrounding tissue

The pain was exquisite

Begged for pain medicine, they gave me what I think was a placebo and told me it was oxycotin.

I told them it wasn't working and my pain was a 10.

I have no opiate history.

Then they gave me a Dilaudid IV (Morphine) which actually worked.

[70sEraVet]

52. How, exactly, are you supposed to answer the question, "What level of pain, on scale 1-10"?

When I think '10', I'm thinking of that guy that got his arm trapped between boulders, and had to cut his own arm off with a pocket knife! That's a '10'!!!!
So when I'm at hospital, and they ask, I think of that guy, and go, "Maybe a 5?"
I'm last to be called, sitting in the waiting area of the Emergency.

[iemanja]

55. When I was in a rehab facility

I had no trouble getting oxy. Hospitals are different.

[NewEnglandAutumn]

59. I work in a pharmacy and my spouse was a cancer patient

I see the issue from differing angles. When he first got cancer he was given pain meds like they were candy and as they slowly tightened down it became a bit scary we worried that he would not be able to get the pain relief he needed. It could be frustrating and often felt judged for the use of opioids.

Working in the pharmacy I am yelled at and occasionally threatened by patients upset over their medications believe me it gets old fast. Doctors and Pharmacists have very real fears that they could lose their license and perhaps even prosecuted if a patient kills themself. Often pain centers require that meds not be dispensed any sooner than 1 day early if it if for a 30 day supply and if we do they will not send in new prescriptions for the patient.

There is an additional problem of having increasingly more issues getting medications shipped to us. Several drugs are on backorder and are damn near impossible to get. The national shortage of addreall (generic) is so bad we answer more phone calls from people asking what we have in stock. It is horrible.

The turnover of pharmacy techs is staggering and even our more senior pharmacists are looking to get out. The only reason why I have not quit is now that my spouse has passed away I don't have a choice if I want to eat.

People need to call their public officials and let them know it has gone too far. Contact the media and write letters to the editor. Because those in the medical field are as frustrated as you are.

[jaxexpat]

60. You have learned an.important lesson about American healthcare.

Do not trust your physicians to have only your best care as their primary concern. They've gotten their marching orders from their under writer's attorneys. That is ultimately the entity which determines the efficacy of our healthcare.

[Meowmee]

67. Yes

It is one of them for sure.

[Meowmee]

64. You are right

It is crazy. It’s almost as hard to get an antibiotic now too. But if they want to kill you if you are your older they bend over backwards to start you on large doses of opiates when you don’t even need them for pain and which could harm you. That’s what they did with my father anyway- they were pushing so called palliative care on him which was actually a death sentence…well they ended up murdering him anyway and I never let them give him all the drugs. Of course if he had needed them I would’ve been demanding them. They are also giving antipsychotic drugs to older people instead of a tranquilizer which is dangerous for them. I witnessed that they contributed to my father‘s death and made his mental status much worse than it already was from Covid and everything that was going on with him. Every time he was hospitalized they took him off of his anxiety meds, and gave him halperidol and other drugs,which made the whole situation even worse. These people are sadists and lunatics.

If someone needs a painkiller whether for chronic issues or temporary they should get it. The majority of people never get addicted to these drugs- a large part of deaths they claim are from opiate overdoses are people who had cancer or something else terrible who were given opiates at the end of their life who were never addicted and who were not addiction related or usual ods etc.

[littlemissmartypants]

66. I take a drug called Nucynta ER. I have been taking it a couple of years.

I can only get a thirty day supply at a time. When I first started taking it my insurance covered it at $45.00 per prescription. As time has passed up until today it has become more and more expensive. Last year it was $285.00 a month. This year it was dropped off the formulary. The cash price, $1111.69 with a "special discount" and that's each month.

Our medical system has succeeded in making a medication that has saved my life, unaffordable.

That's just another way those of us with chronic debilitating pain are forced to suffer.

I will never be a functioning member of society without this drug. If I don't take it I cannot sit up, stand up or walk much less engage in activities like cooking, cleaning, shopping, driving, bathing, doing laundry, walking my dogs...you get the idea.

What am I and others like me, supposed to do? Give up?

Expect more suicides I guess. That's the only way I see any relief.

Once I no longer have money to spend on fighting my pain that's going to be all I have left.

[littlemissmartypants]

74. I'm glad you were specific. I could just as easily put it around my neck.

Thank Goddess I'm not that far gone, yet.



❤️

[littlemissmartypants]

87. I sure hope so, Chin music. Some days I wonder. ❤️

[Warpy]

73. I always hated following Nurse Tylenol

and most units have one of them. She wasn't a bad nurse, just afraid of pain medication, used appropriately, and it was appropriate for people who'd had their chests sawn open, their hearts or lungs monkeyed around with, and their chests put back together wit wires. She might have gotten away with it during the day when there was rehab and they had visitors and such but I'd get them after supper, about the time visitors went home. I'd be pushing IV morphine as well as stuffing Percocet into them as often as I could, playing catch up to the kind of pain that made them want to claw their skin off. The next day Nurse Tylenol would say something like "But he was just FINE on Tylenol on MY time," Like I'd done something wrong. I never strangled her. I should get a medal for that.

I'm a year and a half out on a new hip (I have RA and mine was a surprise) and I can tell you it does get better fast and Tylenol, once you're three weeks or so out, can keep the pain down to a dull roar. Call your GP or rheumatologist if you need additional pain meds, I can guarandamntee you that your surgeon won't want to hear about it.

By the time I was 6 weeks out, mine didn't hurt any worse than it did pre fracture, it just hurt in a lot of new places. Now it hurts less than it has in years.

Hip replacements are one of the surgeries they're really, really good at. You're not likely to get oxycodone from your GP or rheumatologist, you'll get something lighter than that, but it should be adequate and do enough of the job for you to progress.

[DenaliDemocrat]

80. Well, I am an old powerlifter

Who was once part of the 2000
Lb club. Those big muscle bellies are hot and angry at the abuse I took

[Warpy]

104. My ileopsoas tendon was the grouchiest

and required both the exercise set from rehab plus a lot of stretching. Now I get an occasional mild twinge, but that's all

It no longer feels like some evil demon is kicking me in the backside and balancing on the operative leg no longer feels like the prosthesis is going to shoot up and embed itself in the ceiling.

So yes, it gets better, a lot better. By the three month mark, I wasn't carrying a cane for show, I was just walking around. For the record, I'm an old broad, mid 70s.

But do call your rheumy or GP about some lighter pain medication. It can make a huge difference if you take it when you're really in trouble, when you overdo.

[leftstreet]

81. DURec

People need to start suing Doctors for medical malpractice by refusing to treat pain

[ecstatic]

82. I agree. Luckily I have a very high pain tolerance

So I rarely need regular pain meds much less narcotics but I think it's unfair that everyone is treated like a criminal addict now. What's wrong with erring on the side of compassion? Alcohol is freely available but you don't see people preemptively accused of being an alcoholic.

[GoodRaisin]

84. The best solution I've found for my pain is sit still.

I’ve got so many things wrong with me it’s too much to list. The worst is the neuropathic pain. Already had cervical fusion and need lumbar fusion. I’ve been offered opioids for the neuropathy but instead treat it with Lyrica, which helps the pain some and keeps my head clearer than opioid. My neurosurgeon has warned me that there is risk he could end up hurting me worse with the lumbar laminectomy and fusion, so been holding off as long as possible on that one, but starting to feel more sciatica from that too. So my lower back is always stiff and sore, sometimes pinching, and, intermittent sciatica, plus the neuropathy from the cervical spine damage - what works best for me is “don’t move”.

[shrike3]

85. Tell me about it. I had total knee replacement. Extra strength tylenol would take care of pain,

they said. A friend ended up giving me his pain meds. I gave them back once I could control the pain with Aleve, which made somewhat of a difference.

[LudwigPastorius]

88. Welcome to the Opioid Crisis Scare.

Doctors and hospitals are scared shitless to prescribe opioids because of the lawsuits.

It's so fucked up.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

108. 80,000 deaths a year in the US from opioid overdoses is hardly a "scare crisis."

[Crunchy Frog]

109. Most of them are from street drugs that contain illicit fentanyl.

I don't believe that the extreme restrictions on prescribing to people with legitimate pain have improved those numbers either.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

110. Many addicts who have died from street drugs got hooked on prescription meds first.

It is a complex situation.

[LudwigPastorius]

118. That's one tenth of the annual deaths from heart disease.

Maybe we need to sick the DEA on McDonalds instead of doctors.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

119. One tenth of the annual deaths from heart disease is a lot of deaths.

On the point of educating Americans about good nutrition, I'm all in.

[rollin74]

90. extreme fear of regulators and lawsuits are powerful motivators in the U.S. healthcare industry

only secondary to profits

[Chakaconcarne]

99. In many European countries you will never be sent home with an opioid after leaving the hospital

You will get paracetamol and that's it...

They have been operating this way for years...

Their population handles pain better...apparently. Maybe it will just take time for Americans to adapt.

[LudwigPastorius]

120. In some European countries codeine and codeine/acetaminophen combinations are over the counter.

[IowaGuy]

107. This is unfortunate for you...

My personal experience would indicate it isn't really systemic however, or the government being too heavy handed. I also recently had a full hip replacement, and the docs were very assertive in managing pain. They originally prescribed some stuff that was a lot heavier than oxycodone. I was off all the pain meds completely in a couple of weeks, however they were still offering them to me months later if I felt I needed them. I refused them....the best long term pain treatment is just to get up and use your leg. The docs do ask ask their patients a lot of questions re: your perceived pain and other questions to try and profile your risk for abuse. They also have lots of info they give you about it and posters in their offices explaining policies they have for restricting or denying prescriptions. In my case, anyway, it seems to be the docs personal call on risk/ reward for the individual.

[Catherine Vincent]

111. Someone above mentioned percocet

I remember they use to sell it over the counter.