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Ocelot II

(130,536 posts)
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 11:43 AM Jan 2023

Timothy Snyder explains the McGonigal situation brilliantly (and frighteningly).

Gotta read this: The Specter of 2016: McGonigal, Trump, and the Truth about America

We are on the edge of a spy scandal with major implications for how we understand the Trump administration, our national security, and ourselves.

*****

Failing to understand the Russian threat in the 2010s was a prelude to failing to understand the Russian threat in 2020s. And today Americans who support Russia in its war of atrocity tend to be members of the Trump family or people closely aligned with Trump, such as Giuliani. The people who helped Trump then take part in the war on Ukraine now. Consider one of the main architects of Russia's 2016 campaign to support Trump, Yevgeny Prigozhin. In 2016, his relevant position was as the head of the Internet Research Agency; they were the very people who (for example) helped spread the story about Clinton that rescued Trump from the Access Hollywood scandal. Without the Internet Research Agency covering his back, Trump would have had a much harder time in the 2016 election. Today, during the war in Ukraine, Prigozhin is now better known as the owner of Wagner, sending tens of thousands of Russian prisoners to kill and die.

The implications of the arrest go further. McGonigal had authority in sensitive investigations where the specific concern was that there was an American giving away other Americans to foreign governments. Untangling what that means will require a concern for the United States that goes beyond party loyalty. Unfortunately, some key political figures seem to be reacting to the news in the opposite spirit: suppressing the past, thereby destabilizing the future. Immediately after the McGonigal story broke, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy ejected Adam Schiff from the House intelligence committee, in a grand exhibition of indifference to national security. A veteran of that committee, Schiff has has taken the time to learn about Russia. It is grotesque to exclude him at this particular moment, in the middle of a war, and at the beginning of a spy scandal

McCarthy's recent move against Schiff also recalls 2016, sadly. Much as I did, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy had an inkling, back then, that something was wrong with Trump and Russia. He expressed his view that June that Donald Trump was the Republican most likely to be taking money from Vladimir Putin. This showed a fine political instinct, sadly unmatched by any ethical follow-through. McCarthy did not share his suspicion with his constituents, nor do anything to follow through. He made the remark it in a conversation with other Republican House members, who did not disagree with him, and who apparently came to the conclusion the the risk of an embarrassment to their party was more important than American national security. Republicans in the Senate, sadly, took a similar view. They deliberately marginalized a CIA investigation that did address the Russian influence campaign for Trump. In September 2016, Mitch McConnell made it clear to the Obama administration that the CIA's findings would be treated as political if they were discussed in public. The Obama administration bowed to this pressure.

The Russian operation to get Trump elected in 2016 was real. We are still living under the specter of 2016, and we are closer to the beginning of the process or learning about it than we are to the end. Denying that it happened, or acting as though it did not happen, makes the United States vulnerable to Russian influence operations that are still ongoing, sometimes organized by the same people. It is easy to forget about 2016, and human to want to do so. But democracy is about learning from mistakes, and this arrest makes it very clear that we still have much to learn.
https://snyder.substack.com/p/the-specter-of-2016
71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Timothy Snyder explains the McGonigal situation brilliantly (and frighteningly). (Original Post) Ocelot II Jan 2023 OP
K & R...for visibility...nt Wounded Bear Jan 2023 #1
Russia. Russia. Russia. Kid Berwyn Jan 2023 #2
K&R Docreed2003 Jan 2023 #3
Good post. What a tragedy unfolded in 2016. triron Jan 2023 #4
Yes. Manufactured "frenzy." Hortensis Jan 2023 #8
👍👍 Jade Fox Jan 2023 #20
But just enough couldn't see it. LisaM Jan 2023 #33
America's reich-wing, loves Putin. Snarkoleptic Jan 2023 #5
The oligarchy is global. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2023 #46
This constitutes HIGH TREASON perhaps? ProudMNDemocrat Jan 2023 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2023 #12
But what about dotting the 'is and crossing the 't's? triron Jan 2023 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2023 #39
+1, I'm starting to think those who want all i's dotted & t's crossed are being astro-turfed.....too uponit7771 Jan 2023 #61
Sure does look that way. nt intrepidity Jan 2023 #64
Good point blm Jan 2023 #70
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Feb 2023 #71
i assume there is a body count. mopinko Jan 2023 #21
Pretty scary between this and the Barr report. When DOJ can be so easily compromised dutch777 Jan 2023 #7
The traitors who've gotten control of the Republican house caucus may have Hortensis Jan 2023 #9
K&R brer cat Jan 2023 #10
Amazing how all this comes out & is promoted just *after* the statute of limitations ran out. NullTuples Jan 2023 #11
Sadly the McGonigal arrest lasted 24 hours in the MSM gab13by13 Jan 2023 #13
MSM is complicit. triron Jan 2023 #44
Oh, that will be back in the news before long. It's a big story. Ocelot II Jan 2023 #68
Reading this information reminded me of an NYT article from a couple years back in which the Lonestarblue Jan 2023 #14
Tim Snyder is a force for good in this world. Thank you for this. mahina Jan 2023 #15
Check out Snyder's lectures from Harvard on Youtube. A really great series on Ukraine. sarcasmo Jan 2023 #35
Yale but yes. I've listened to the first nine of them and have bought so many copies of Tyranny I mahina Jan 2023 #36
K&R SalviaBlue Jan 2023 #16
An extremely sobering read karin_sj Jan 2023 #17
So I try not to. Bad for my health. triron Jan 2023 #38
K&R Wild blueberry Jan 2023 #18
Ghouliani and Manafort must have been knee deep in this charade. And some CIA/SS agents too I bet. machoneman Jan 2023 #19
And yet they still walk free, facing NO consequences whatsoever. calimary Jan 2023 #47
Kicking blm Jan 2023 #22
much to learn, such as debt defaulters now following putin's 2011 plan, taking prof limbaugh's certainot Jan 2023 #23
Someday orangecrush Jan 2023 #29
i hope. soon would be good. certainot Jan 2023 #30
What are they afraid of? orangecrush Jan 2023 #40
+1, uponit7771 Jan 2023 #58
It's all connected! CanonRay Jan 2023 #24
Santos's secret campaign donors are part of this story, imo. yardwork Jan 2023 #25
Kevin McCarthy is a very self-serving person, whose places personal ambition ahead of country. patphil Jan 2023 #26
He just wants that big-ass portrait hanging on the wall calimary Jan 2023 #48
Heading into 2024 KS Toronado Jan 2023 #27
Great article orangecrush Jan 2023 #28
This excerpt: BComplex Jan 2023 #31
"The Russian operation to get Trump elected in 2016 was real." Botany Jan 2023 #32
A very good analysis of... reACTIONary Jan 2023 #34
KICK orangecrush Jan 2023 #41
KnR Hekate Jan 2023 #42
Worth reading the whole article. eppur_se_muova Jan 2023 #43
I've been spreading Snyder's piece for 2 days blm Jan 2023 #45
I'm glad he did it in article form Nevilledog Jan 2023 #51
Heh. I started with that one blm Jan 2023 #52
+1, uponit7771 Jan 2023 #60
+1, Comey should be made to tell who was his source for the "leak" in the FBI NY office or he goes uponit7771 Jan 2023 #59
Who's going to get that info ? The AG ? The press ? A Senate Committee ? eppur_se_muova Jan 2023 #69
TRUMP WAS UP TO HIS NECK IN IT Jimvanhise Jan 2023 #49
Russia ymetca Jan 2023 #50
I concur. blm Jan 2023 #53
He goofed. moondust Jan 2023 #54
+1, uponit7771 Jan 2023 #57
Kick! burrowowl Jan 2023 #55
KNR and bookmarking. niyad Jan 2023 #56
When you look back across the last 40 years SouthernDem4ever Jan 2023 #62
The thing that amazes me is that the people who hated the USSR the most Ocelot II Jan 2023 #63
Amazes me too. SouthernDem4ever Jan 2023 #65
Follow the money... Ocelot II Jan 2023 #66
Read the entire post... ewagner Jan 2023 #67

Kid Berwyn

(24,395 posts)
2. Russia. Russia. Russia.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 11:53 AM
Jan 2023

Prof. Snyder pegs the players, their actions, the sundry rationales, and the implications on national security.

Instead of locking up the Russian and American gangsters corrupting the 2016 election, McGonigal was taking their money.

 

triron

(22,240 posts)
4. Good post. What a tragedy unfolded in 2016.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 11:58 AM
Jan 2023

So many of us here at DU could see what was happening but the media was in a frenzy over Hillarys emails.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
8. Yes. Manufactured "frenzy."
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:18 PM
Jan 2023

In contrast, most MSM kept "frenzy" over tRump-Russia from breaking out and mostly entirely ignored Russia's assistance, during and since, to Senator Sanders' campaign and populist movement.

Tad Devine, who'd recently worked with Paul Manafort to elect a ruthless, corrupt RW dictator in Ukraine, became a strategist in the Sanders campaign while Manafort managed tRump's. Surely how they managed to get embedded with candidates in this presidential election should have justified a little frenzy of questions?

LisaM

(29,634 posts)
33. But just enough couldn't see it.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 02:10 PM
Jan 2023

The way some of the Democrats acted at the DNC that year was awful, the booing, the mouths taped shut, the insistence on having two nominees. Some of it was in good faith but some of it wasn't.

Every time her campaign got momentum, something slowed it (usually Comey, but not always).

Snarkoleptic

(6,235 posts)
5. America's reich-wing, loves Putin.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:09 PM
Jan 2023
https://www.thedailybeast.com/erik-prince-offered-military-services-to-sanctioned-russian-mercenary-firm-wagner-report-says

It's typical of these christo-fascists to support Russia and other authoritarian regimes, while undermining democracy.

Article from 2020.

Erik Prince, founder of the private security company Blackwater and a Trump administration adviser, has recently attempted to cultivate a business relationship with a sanctioned Russian paramilitary organization called the Wagner Group, The Intercept reported on Monday. The Trump administration sanctioned Wagner in 2017 for having “recruited and sent soldiers to fight alongside [Russian-backed] separatists in eastern Ukraine” in 2014. “In my experience, the act of soliciting from a sanctioned party would indeed be an apparent violation,” Brian O’Toole, a former senior sanctions official at the Treasury Department, told The Intercept, adding that offering to do business with Wagner “would seem to be a fairly egregious thing to do.”

ProudMNDemocrat

(20,897 posts)
6. This constitutes HIGH TREASON perhaps?
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:11 PM
Jan 2023

How much more corruption and deception can we stand that involves TDFG?

Something indeed is rotten in Denmark.

Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #6)

Response to triron (Reply #37)

uponit7771

(93,532 posts)
61. +1, I'm starting to think those who want all i's dotted & t's crossed are being astro-turfed.....too
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 07:38 AM
Jan 2023

Response to uponit7771 (Reply #61)

mopinko

(73,726 posts)
21. i assume there is a body count.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:12 PM
Jan 2023

remember that this clown was in charge of figuring out why cia agents were getting burned in 2010.
you know there are bodies. it’ll take time, but i dont think either doj or fbi are sooooo far gone this can stand.

both orgs need a good fumigation, tho.

dutch777

(5,068 posts)
7. Pretty scary between this and the Barr report. When DOJ can be so easily compromised
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:17 PM
Jan 2023

and at very critical junctures in our political process.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
9. The traitors who've gotten control of the Republican house caucus may have
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:23 PM
Jan 2023

self protection, as well as protection of national goals, as motives for their attack on Schiff. Plenty of evidence has surfaced of various Republican-Russian connections.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
11. Amazing how all this comes out & is promoted just *after* the statute of limitations ran out.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:28 PM
Jan 2023

gab13by13

(32,323 posts)
13. Sadly the McGonigal arrest lasted 24 hours in the MSM
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:29 PM
Jan 2023

This McGonigal situation should be front page news 24/7, instead it will be Trump on the campaign trail again.

Ocelot II

(130,536 posts)
68. Oh, that will be back in the news before long. It's a big story.
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 10:50 AM
Jan 2023

The Tyre Nichols case has taken over the news for a couple of days, but I have no doubt that we'll see a lot more of McGonigal as the prosecution continues.

Lonestarblue

(13,480 posts)
14. Reading this information reminded me of an NYT article from a couple years back in which the
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:42 PM
Jan 2023

CIA acknowledged that dozens of its informants had been murdered. An unusually high number. At the time, I assumed that Trump was giving the names of informants to Putin and Putin was having them executed. The arrest of McGonigal for spying for Russia opens another possible link. With Trump in the White House, did McGonigal feel safe working for Russia?

“Top American counterintelligence officials warned every C.I.A. station and base around the world last week about troubling numbers of informants recruited from other countries to spy for the United States being captured or killed, people familiar with the matter said.

The message, in an unusual top secret cable, said that the C.I.A.’s counterintelligence mission center had looked at dozens of cases in the last several years involving foreign informants who had been killed, arrested or most likely compromised. Although brief, the cable laid out the specific number of agents executed by rival intelligence agencies — a closely held detail that counterintelligence officials typically do not share in such cables.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html

sarcasmo

(23,968 posts)
35. Check out Snyder's lectures from Harvard on Youtube. A really great series on Ukraine.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 02:54 PM
Jan 2023

mahina

(20,645 posts)
36. Yale but yes. I've listened to the first nine of them and have bought so many copies of Tyranny I
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 04:00 PM
Jan 2023

Lost track. Thank you again.

karin_sj

(1,370 posts)
17. An extremely sobering read
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 12:53 PM
Jan 2023

It's so discouraging and infuriating that this took so long to be brought into the mainstream. And even now, with all of this evidence, there is still resistance by so many to pursue it. Thank God for Timothy Snyder and others who are still bringing this treason and subterfuge to light. It's awful that even today, people in the most powerful branches of our government and in the media are working hard to hide and/or downplay the evidence that Russia is responsible for getting this orange traitor installed as our president for four years. Just sickening to even think about it.

machoneman

(4,128 posts)
19. Ghouliani and Manafort must have been knee deep in this charade. And some CIA/SS agents too I bet.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:02 PM
Jan 2023

calimary

(90,021 posts)
47. And yet they still walk free, facing NO consequences whatsoever.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 09:22 PM
Jan 2023

What is WRONG with this picture???

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
23. much to learn, such as debt defaulters now following putin's 2011 plan, taking prof limbaugh's
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:24 PM
Jan 2023

july 2011 advice when he spent much of the month telling the teabags/dittoheads/putin tools that default couldn't happen and if it did it would force obama to make cuts. few republican business tycoons would want default like putin would.

dems need to read limbaugh on the floor of congress - like waving a turd under their noses. they think they can "do it right" this time. dems need to blame limbaugh and tie him to putin.

as christo racist fascists they had many common interests and whether limbaugh knew it or not, putin's been using talk radio/limbaugh since 2008 at least. trump was the result of americans not recognizing that through limbaugh, as the unspoken/in-the-basement moral and 'intellectual' leader of the republican party, putin could feed limbaugh and control central US messaging - for instance using clinton emails, benghazi or whatever else they wanted to make excuses for and rationalize everything trump did.

in 2008 manafort's partner rick gates was mccain's campaign chair and limbaugh would not support mccain until minutes after he chose palin on the ever of the GOP convention, averting total disaster. mccain wanted pawlenty or lieberman but limbaugh was pushing palin, who was being wooed by russian oil and gas interests and who would have no clue about being used.

how the fuck does sam nunberg get on MSNBC so many times and no one asks him details about when he "listened to 1000s of hours of talk radio" for trump in 2014? was he listening to major blowhards in the same swing states the russian operatives mueller indicted visited? he said trump was getting reports from him but did they end up in the russian troll farms? most of that social media piggybacked unchallenged talk radio repetition.

in 2009 limbaugh spent a whole week creating the 'climategate' hoax from a russian hack, in time to derail obama at copenhagen. saved the oligarchs billions in oil revenues as serious global action was delayed another decade.

even though limbaugh was trump's neighbor and golf partner he tried to look objective for the GOP primaries but eliminated/snubbed every one else and bush and rubio as too soft on immigration while making daily excuses for trump.

limbaugh and sons are the only reason why and how putin got trump anywhere close to the white house and ignoring rw radio is still the biggest political mistake in history.

orangecrush

(30,261 posts)
40. What are they afraid of?
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 05:53 PM
Jan 2023


They took Charles Coughlin off the air.



Following a 1942 FBI investigation, Coughlin’s activities were curtailed by both US authorities and the Catholic Church.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/charles-e-coughlin

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
25. Santos's secret campaign donors are part of this story, imo.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:27 PM
Jan 2023

The New York locus is not a coincidence.

patphil

(9,068 posts)
26. Kevin McCarthy is a very self-serving person, whose places personal ambition ahead of country.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:27 PM
Jan 2023

He knows Trump was heavily involved with Russia, but just doesn't care. As long as he thinks he can do better by going along with Trump and his supporters in Congress he will.
Truth isn't something he cares about.

calimary

(90,021 posts)
48. He just wants that big-ass portrait hanging on the wall
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 09:26 PM
Jan 2023

in some distinguished location.

Kevin McCarthy is a waste of human flesh.

KS Toronado

(23,727 posts)
27. Heading into 2024
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:33 PM
Jan 2023

We should be hammering them on their "Denying that it happened, or acting as though it did not happen",
their whole "It's OK if a reQublican does it" shit. Teach voters we need politicians who know right from
wrong and will act accordingly.

BComplex

(9,914 posts)
31. This excerpt:
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 01:50 PM
Jan 2023
McCarthy's recent move against Schiff also recalls 2016, sadly. Much as I did, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy had an inkling, back then, that something was wrong with Trump and Russia. He expressed his view that June that Donald Trump was the Republican most likely to be taking money from Vladimir Putin.


Just wondering now if Kevin McCarthy is now under the russian money tree, and/or threat. And was he under the threat/money tree when he went to kiss the ring?

He's known to have extramarital affairs, so I wonder if he was somehow compromised.

These days, russia is so far up our power brokers' butts that I'm totally paranoid.

Botany

(77,324 posts)
32. "The Russian operation to get Trump elected in 2016 was real."
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 02:02 PM
Jan 2023

Yup! And the person who was in charge of investigating it McGonigal, for the FBI was on Putin's payroll.

eppur_se_muova

(41,942 posts)
43. Worth reading the whole article.
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 06:48 PM
Jan 2023

In insisting that "The Russia thing is a hoax", tfg enabled a foreign power to shape a US election, with dire consequences. That should bring a charge of subversion.

Nevilledog

(55,081 posts)
51. I'm glad he did it in article form
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 12:47 AM
Jan 2023

The Unrolled Twitter thread I posted just wasn't as easy to share.

uponit7771

(93,532 posts)
59. +1, Comey should be made to tell who was his source for the "leak" in the FBI NY office or he goes
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 07:34 AM
Jan 2023

... to jail.

There's no way this thing isn't all tied together with his announcement 10 days before the election that empirically hurt Clinton.

These fuckas are traitors and FBI NY at the least is still MAGA Land

eppur_se_muova

(41,942 posts)
69. Who's going to get that info ? The AG ? The press ? A Senate Committee ?
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 11:12 AM
Jan 2023

I'd love to see any of those happen.

Jimvanhise

(595 posts)
49. TRUMP WAS UP TO HIS NECK IN IT
Sat Jan 28, 2023, 10:01 PM
Jan 2023

On January 6th, 2017, Trump was briefed on Russia involvement in the 2016 election and shown proof that Vladimir Putin was behind it. To this day Trump has never mentioned that January 6, 2017 meeting.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/politics/james-clapper-trump-russia-hacking-cnntv/index.html

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
50. Russia
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 12:32 AM
Jan 2023

perhaps, ceased to be a nation under Putin, and became something like the largest quasi-corporation in the world.

He's the boss. Everybody else works for him. He gets a cut of all the action.

Thus is he so admired by so many wannabe dictators, here and abroad.

Putin has been using our own, flawed, corporate ideology against us, and in a spectacular way.

And it all worked great until our hackneyed electoral college system foisted his stooge into the Oval. That exposed him.

Now he's got to invade Ukraine because that's where all the money is.

Was he led into a trap? If true, then he went so willingly.

The only lesson I'm learning from all this is that Money is God, and we are all its servants.

It's one shitty lesson, for which we all pay in blood.

moondust

(21,286 posts)
54. He goofed.
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 01:17 AM
Jan 2023

With his senseless invasion and war crimes he may have screwed the Russian people for generations to come. The world has largely weaned itself off Russian products.

As Putin’s energy might ebbs, the world economy no longer needs Russia

SouthernDem4ever

(6,619 posts)
62. When you look back across the last 40 years
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 09:06 AM
Jan 2023

When the USSR was broken up and a couple of Russian leaders tried to make Russia more western friendly, it seemed to lull the average U.S. citizen into a false sense of security that the KGB no longer was a threat and Russia wants to be a good democracy now. Obviously, that either failed or was never their purpose from the beginning. Either way, U.S. citizens need to wake the fuck up and quit listening to russian propaganda from weirdos on Fox and other right-wing networks. They are in it for the money and couldn't give two shits if satan himself were signing their paychecks.

Ocelot II

(130,536 posts)
63. The thing that amazes me is that the people who hated the USSR the most
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 09:12 AM
Jan 2023

during the '50s-'60s and into the '70s (conservatives, mostly) are so fond of Russia now that the USSR has broken up. They've done a complete 180 from the paranoia of the Cold War to wanting to be Putin's pals. I have to think this has a whole lot more to do with money than with ideology.

SouthernDem4ever

(6,619 posts)
65. Amazes me too.
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 10:12 AM
Jan 2023

We went from the Red Scare to the US govt being the enemy. People are so F'd up.

ewagner

(18,967 posts)
67. Read the entire post...
Sun Jan 29, 2023, 10:44 AM
Jan 2023

Not only was the FBI "asleep at the switch"....they were an active participant.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Timothy Snyder explains t...