What we know about the 'provocative' balloon spotted in the sky above the US

[applegrove]

What we know about the 'provocative' balloon spotted in the sky above the US

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-03/spy-balloon-spotted-above-the-united-states-provocative/101928432

"SNIP.......

The United States has revealed it is tracking what it believes to be a "surveillance balloon" flying over the country.

In a defense briefing to reporters on Thursday, the US said it was confident the balloon belonged to China.

But what else do we know about the balloon that has caused such alarm?

How big is the balloon?
Briefing US reporters on Thursday, a US defense official did not specify the size of the balloon, but said it was large enough that commercial pilots could see it and that shooting it down would create a debris field large enough to put people on the ground at risk.

.........SNIP"

They think it is collecting communications in the US and it is archaic technology to use balloons.

[TexasTowelie]

1. They need to shoot it down once it is over open water and no longer a danger to people.

It will send a clear message to China that this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

[applegrove]

2. It is well above 40,000 feet as they say it is higher than the flight path. Doubt you

could guesstimate where it lands from that lofty height. Especially as its' solar panels are blown apart.

[TexasTowelie]

3. Once the balloon is over the Atlantic Ocean where the debris falls really doesn't matter.

They will have collected some intelligence, but if the balloon is destroyed it may not get to relay some of that information back to China. This provocation must be responded to; otherwise, the Chinese will continue their spying.

The whole idea of sending up a balloon is stupid in the 21st century anyway when there are satellites that can gather and transmit the same information.

[Irish_Dem]

33. Yes exactly, the Chinese are sending balloons for reasons other than data collection.

They get the same thing and more via their spy satellites.

[KS Toronado]

62. Their new covid strain?

Probably what Fucker Carlson is telling the MAGAts.

[hunter]

57. We learn more by leaving it be...

... listening to it and seeing where it eventually ends up.

It's probably in communication with something. If it's simply recording its observations to storage, say a hard drive, that storage will have to be retrieved. How that's accomplished is interesting.

Anyways, if you really want to know what's going on in the U.S.A. you don't use a balloon, you send tourists with fancy cell phones. Or hell, you just manufacture fancy cell phones and cell phone infrastructure and sell it to the people you want to spy upon.

[yaesu]

4. But, but, but we need all that china junk at chinamart to survive, how can we shoot that nice

Balloon down?

[Tomconroy]

5. They're afraid debris will hit people when it's over MT?

[Maru Kitteh]

7. As a Montanan, I think it's safe to say there's precious little

chance of that. Also: I’ll bet I could find a few hundred heavily armed white guys who would love a chance to shoot it down.

[KS Toronado]

11. I hear ya

but do they have bullets capable of traveling 7 and a half miles, it's at 40,000 feet.

[BlackSkimmer]

23. I doubt they'd have much luck at that range. nt

[moniss]

39. As I remember they mostly live

in that little strip of land between Montana and Washington. AKA "The Spud Curtain".

[Kennah]

63. Might be the Pentagon's ploy: advertise it for Y'all Queda to shoot it down

[KS Toronado]

6. It's out of helicopter range

but how about a small plane like a Cessna 172 pulling a grappling hook? The hook should tear into it releasing
the helium allowing it to be towed back to the ground. Meanwhile I hope we are monitoring it to see if it's
sending data out, and if it is use some jamming software to silence it.

Has anyone admitted to who owns it? Or is it a UFO that has lost warp speed?

[sl8]

9. It's probably too high to be reached by most aircraft:

https://www.reuters.com/world/high-altitude-spy-balloons-old-concept-new-applications-2023-02-03/
Factbox: High-altitude spy balloons: old concept, new applications

[KS Toronado]

14. Our military airspace is 40,000 feet and above

I did a little checking, only jets can reach 40,000 feet.

[sl8]

16. How about 100,000 feet?

The Reuters' piece says they usually operate between 80,000 - 120,000 feet.

The "40,000 ft" figure being bandied about is in reference to the max. operating ceiling of commercial air traffic (I've also seen 42,000 ft.). The articles I've seen about this particular balloon say that it's well above 40,000 feet but below the edge of space.

[KS Toronado]

20. You're absolutely correct.

I am under the impression it was at 40,000 from the evening TV news, doesn't mean they were correct.

Wonder if Fucker Carlson is telling the MAGAts to shoot it down?

[moniss]

21. F-15 is certified

for 80,000 feet with a full pressure suit. Training is in the 40 to 60 range. At least according to a quick search. Air Force web site gives a ceiling of 65k. The additional might be a manufacturer certification or the AF is listing the ceiling that is the norm. Either way it would get the job done.

[Hotler]

56. Remotely rigging voting machines for Biden ahead of the 2024 elections. nt

[GoCubsGo]

46. Or, just jam its electronics.

Which is almost certainly what they have been doing all along. Not just this time, but every time the Chinese have sent one of those things over here.

[KS Toronado]

8. If that balloon had one bullet hole in it

being as large as they claim, I'd think it would come down fairly slow. And if it was anywhere close to
damaging anything a good helicopter pilot using his downdraft prop wash could direct it where to go.
My last idea.

[applegrove]

12. One tiny hole. Are jet fighters even capable of one shot? Surely not!

it is too high for anyone to Farley Mowat (shoot at something very high in the sky from the ground) it.

Maybe some WWI bi-plane could get near it and the person in the back could take a few shots? Those planes go pretty slow. Yeah put a sniper in the second seat. Give him a silk scarf ad goggles. Make a day of it.

[moniss]

15. I'm thinking that

the air would be too thin for a prop plane to do the job. The F-15 operates easily at that altitude and would likely not have a problem shooting it down just using the 20mm gun.

[applegrove]

17. Sounds like a plan.

[sl8]

19. Can an F-15 reach above 80,000 feet, with it's cannon?

I see that public figure for the F-15 ceiling is 65,000 feet, but maybe the actual figure is higher.

An F-15 with the right missile wouldn't have a problem, I'd think.

[applegrove]

22. We want the air to release slowly so the balloon makes a soft descent.

Not a missile. A few holes so the helium slowly escapes.

[sl8]

24. I understand, but what aircraft can reach it with a gun?

On edit:
What about a missile with a disabled warhead? The missile would give a much greater range boost than a cannon.

[applegrove]

27. Yes That's the ticket. A sharp missile.

[BlackSkimmer]

35. I doubt the "air" would escape slowly.

Have you ever seen footage of a small hole in an airplane?

[applegrove]

37. Hmmmmm. Food for thought.

[moniss]

25. Sure seems

like there would be the capability to have the attitude of the aircraft in such a way that the cannon would be firing "up" so to speak if necessary. Here is a video of a strafing run with an F/A-18 using the same 20mm gun. I think it would be "balloon no more" in short order.

[sl8]

28. Maybe.

I just looked up the effective range of the M61, it's about 2,000 feet. Absolute range would be further, but that's also typically a mostly horizontal range. Vertical would be less, I think.

A few thousand feet doesn't seem to boost the ceiling very much. Again, I don't know the actual ceiling of the F15. For that, matter I don't know the actual altitude if this particular balloon. 80,000 to 120,000 feet seems likely, though.

On edit:
I should have said "shooting up" would be less, not "vertical". Gravity would extend the (absolute?) range if shooting down.

[moniss]

31. Yes I thought

somebody said the balloon is cruising around 60k. I also wonder how they are defining effective range. There may be a certain drop per foot or an accuracy component in there. Some of the strafing run videos look as though the jet is higher but that could be camera angle etc. I don't know if there would be any substantial difference in impact of air resistance at low level altitude or high. I don't know what speed they would use coming into a strafing run for ground targets. The upper end high speed on these jets (Mach 1.2+) is
listed as being at altitude so I don't know if any of this has an effect on cannon performance. Just some thoughts that come to mind.

[sl8]

45. Sure. I'm just speculating.

I hadn't seen the 60,000 ft figure reported, but it's a distinct possibilty, whether by design or due to a problem with the balloon. That altitude would definitely be achievable by fighter jets.

[applegrove]

30. The sound of jets is so familiar to me. I worked in the rockies

and the jets from Cold Lake, Alberta (I think) would fly in the mountains. Quite a racket with the mountains echoing all the time. They never shot or bombed anything. The sound alone was intimidating.

[moniss]

34. Years ago I was

driving along on a county road that ran along the southern edge of a large airport when I stopped for what seemed like a traffic jam. The road was well below the grade of the airport runway/taxiway in that area. I had no idea there was an air show that day and that the traffic jam was people trying to get to the observation areas.

As I sat there in my vehicle on the road I began to hear jet engines but couldn't see anything. Then a Harrier appeared over the rim of land and it was mostly hovering low and moving slowly towards us. The downblast from that jet was incredible and our vehicles were all rocking around. Not in a dangerous way so they would move out of place but bouncing on their shocks as the pilot maneuvered. It lasted about 30 seconds or less. Incredible feeling.

[applegrove]

36. I was once horseback riding at a farm just south of the airport. Guess who

surprised me and the horse at 200 or 300 feet above us? A stealth fighter jet. I guess it was show and tell day at the Ottawa Airport.

[moniss]

40. Wow and I hope

the horse took it well. Years ago I had one take me on a mad dash for almost a mile just because he saw a gopher.

[applegrove]

43. Can't honestly remember what the horse did. He/she did not bolt

like yours did. That much I know.

[Irish_Dem]

42. If you watch Thunderbirds training it will scare the hell out of you.

I was an Air Force kid so I am used to military aircraft flying around.

But was not at all prepared to see Thunderbirds up close and personal.

I happened to be next to an airfield once when the Thunderbirds were doing
a practice session the day before a big airshow.

It was cloudy that day and they were doing a low altitude session.
The planes flew right at me, they fly faster that you can see with the eye.
You can see it coming right at you but then you hear it behind you as if
you are witnessing magic. Scary as hell.

[applegrove]

47. Amazing. I love planes but don't like flying in them these days.

I like to observe from afar. When I lived near a base in Ontario and I once saw an Antonov. Didn't look airworthy to me as it flew by.

[Irish_Dem]

61. The Antonov 225, world's largest airplane, was shot down in Ukraine last year.

There was just the one 225 and Ukraine got it.

The Russians say they will rebuild at the cost of $3billion.

Yes Russian aircraft don't have the finish and panache of western aircraft.
They are built to be workhorses.

[applegrove]

41. Of course you are right about propellers. I saw a movie version

of "Into Thin Air" about the blizzard that hit Mount Everest almost 30 years ago. When the helicopter came with the Nepalese crew to fly the wounded out the air was so thin up on everest, at one of the camps, not even the peak, that the pilots flew down a bit and threw out some weight (jettisoning back seats) so that the helicopter and its' blades could fly up higher in the thin air and take on the wounded. And that was only at 25000 or 26000 feet.

You are most right about propellers not working in thin air.

[Irish_Dem]

44. F-15 pilot goes WTF when told to scramble and shoot down a balloon.

[KS Toronado]

18. To high for any propeller driven airplane

I'm thinking a Warthog, they can go slower than most if not all jets. Load one bullet only and pray the
pilot can shoot like Luke Skywalker.

[applegrove]

29. You win! DING DING DING!

[sprinkleeninow]

10. Websites say it may be the size of three busses.

[Ligyron]

13. Good grief, it's a zeppelin then!

Maybe Jimmy Paige could engineer a communication breakdown?

[Emile]

26. We could send Marjorie Taylor Greene up in another balloon 🎈 with

her Jewish Space Laser and disentigrate it!

[applegrove]

32. LOL!

[Irish_Dem]

38. Biden says the balloon is not a threat to the US in any way.

The Chinese get more info from their spy satellites.
It is not a military or civilian threat.

Shooting it down is more a threat to people on the ground with falling debris.

Also Biden doesn't want China to start shooting down US spy equipment
flying or sailing near them.

https://time.com/6252551/chinese-weather-balloon-shoot-down/

[pressbox69]

48. I suspect an angry MAGA

will direct a drone to puncture the big bag. Other than that I'm reminded when I was 3 years old and my dad was ranting about Sputnik.

[GoCubsGo]

49. It's funny how previous balloons never made the news, so why now?

The Chinese have been sending these things over for years. Why are they only reporting this one? It reminds me of the whole "classified documents" bullshit, which was never a big deal--until Trump made it one. From what is our corporate whore media trying to distract us? Or, are they THAT desperate to bloody up Joe Biden?

[ecstatic]

51. Is it a geoengineering balloon

AKA weather machine?

[milestogo]

52. Its aliens.

[Liberal In Texas]

54. I'm waiting for somebody to start a website that

tracks the progress of the balloon.

It could be called, "Where is the Chinese balloon?"

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

55. It's flying right over the largest ICBM missile site in the world at Malmstrom AFB! Take it down!

[hunter]

58. What precious secrets do you suppose they might be looking for?

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

59. Fuck the Chinese, take it down, see what they're up to

[hunter]

60. As I said above, we probably learn more by letting it be.

Anyways, this silly spy vs. spy stuff has been going on forever.

The U.S.A. is better at it than any other nation.

We probably know exactly what that balloon is about, but here comes the media circus...

Beat those fucking war drums.

[Emile]

64. You do know China has satellites and can see us?

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

66. So? They be violating our airspace, over our nuke sites!!!!Take it out! Blinken cancels meeting!

Good, fuck them, I don't give a rats ass what their story is.