I remember when sexism in any form was frowned upon here...

[brooklynite]

...but apparently its now okay if you don't like the target (hint: Kyrsten Sinema).

I know nothing about her behavior or response to the SOTU Address. But I do know plenty of opinions about her fashion choices.

[panader0]

1. If a man wore that outfit, I'd still think it was unappropriate.

[DFW]

7. If Santos had come dressed like Boy George, he would have been deserving of a few comments, too

MTG's outfit was deserving of a few snickers, as well--not because of her gender, but because of her mocking of the occasion. If it had been Trump giving the speech, I doubt MTG would have dared show up in anything of the sort.

[ananda]

44. LOL

[Stuckinthebush]

2. I'm no Sinema fan

but I do get uncomfortable with the ease we have in going after her - or other women we don’t care for - when it comes to fashion. I will readily admit that I’ve thought it and said it out loud. Then I dislike myself for doing that. Thanks for pointing that out. I will try to do better and I hope others will as well.

[RobinA]

10. I Don't

That dress was a choice. If McCarthy showed up in a magenta suit it would get the same level of scorn. There's, "That isn't the dress I would pick for the occasion," and then there's, "Oh no, she did not wear that dress to the state of the union." You go that far afield on the taste-o-meter and you reap the consequences of your conscious decision.

[cally]

28. I agree

I want to join in and I have but I do find it wrong. Men have a well established uniform and women do make fashion choices and are critiqued for it. When working, I often envied men because it seemed so much easier to just put on a suit and tie. (Different era) while I had to choose to look “professional but not like a man”.

I actually didn’t find Sinema’s outfit too outrageous but I vehemently oppose wearing fur. And it makes no sense to wear fur in a crowded, probably hot, room.

[PatSeg]

47. I find a lot of her clothing choices

to be extremely inappropriate for the House or Senate floor. I think it is disrespectful to the office she holds and the institution she works for. I have no problem being critical of her in that regard. How she dresses in her private life may be amusing, but does not concern me at all.

It drives me nuts that Jim Jordan sits on committees and rarely wears a jacket even though it is part of the dress code.

By the way, if a woman I really like in Congress dresses inappropriately, I will be critical of her as well.

[PCIntern]

3. It wasn't sexist

The dress bordered on the absurd/surrealistic. Even I, who absolutely don’t give a shit about fashion in this arena was agape at her appearance. They could’ve put her outside a used car lot waving her arms.

[hlthe2b]

6. It was intentionally "attention-seeking" just like behavior of many on the right including Santos

and MTG with her stupid balloon. Not to mention attention-seeking dweeb authoritarian-wannabe DeSantis wearing his ridiculous white boots--or Trump manspreading while seated at a damned funeral (Diamond's) with a tie nearly down to his ankle.

NOT SEXIST if you call it out wherever you see it. And the women of DU know the difference between a clothing attack that is, at its heart a sexist affront and intentional attempts to dress for the purpose of attention-seeking.

[tblue37]

38. +a brazillion! nt

[PatSeg]

49. Oh yes,

it was blatantly attention-seeking. She knew full well that she would be spotted throughout the night no matter where she was. I am so tired of self-absorbed people trying to constantly draw attention to themselves. Governing is serious business, not some reality TV show - well it often looks more like reality TV these days.

[CatWoman]

11. not only was the dress hideous and ill fitting

the color did not suit her as well.

who wears bright fucking yellow this time of the year?

she was all about getting attention.

[Pobeka]

15. Plus one! Geeze the lady has no sense of real fashion taste.

[hlthe2b]

18. I think we all know that SHE knows BETTER and it was intentional.

She has a pattern of such intentional choices for various occasions.

[haele]

19. It's a fashion choice for an early 1980's dance club. Screaming "look at me! "

That's as sexist as commenting about Kevin McCarthy coming to the SOTU with Flock of Seagulls hair and a gold brocade evening suit with tails and a sheer white turtleneck shirt. If he had the courage to do that...

Haele

[notinkansas]

36. I absolutely agree that the comments were not sexist.

Her 'fashion choice' was made explicitly for the purpose of garnering attention. She succeeded. But not in a good way.

[Meowmee]

58. yes agree

I did not make any comments but I think what she wore was inappropriate for the occasion and she has a history of doing this for attention seeking etc. I presume.

[lindysalsagal]

4. I only care how she votes, and it's not re-assuring, at all.

[Ilsa]

8. The problem is that we don't like men thinking they should tell us

how to dress, but then Sinema wears stuff like that, obviously needing help in her professional wardrobe choices. It wasn't just the big blast of color, it was how tight it was. It was grimmace-inducing.

[PatSeg]

50. Definitely "grimace-inducing"

And very disrespectful.

[delisen]

9. I have been amazed at the authoritarian dress coders on left. nt

[RobinA]

14. The Dress Code

is, Act like a sane person. Not a high bar.

[delisen]

27. I am just not that judgmental about how people dress

nor am I in awe of very restrictive dress codes, cultural European and colonial derived ideas of appropriateness, or the western male power suit and tie uniform.

I have lived in the US all my life. I have been subjected to genderized clothing from infancy, school uniforms, and classist judgments based upon what one wore. As a teacher I was prevented from dressing warmly in freezing weather by wearing tights instead of stockings, as an office worker I was forced to wear foot-ruining high heeled shoes just to keep a job.

In the old days people of the Beat Generation, and anti-war generation were denounced for flouting dress codes and not sporting appropriate haircuts. The complainers then were usually Samuel Alito-style conservatives. Granted the country seems to have now moved further to the right.

I think wearing a bright yellow dress with big flouncey sleeves does nothing to demean the state of the union , a formal report by a president about it, or the congressional chamber. I don’t care whether the person sporting the attire did so because they are bi-polar, making a statement about freedom, desiring attention, or has a fashion sense unique to themselves.

All the gossip about asenator’s yellow dress gives me a case of the small town blues. I feel the weight of conformity once again closing in on me.

[Ms. Toad]

48. Absolutely! n/t

[treestar]

12. Critiquing outfits is not always sexist

how many times have we discussed TFG's wardrobe choices?

That outfit just was not Congressional. Being female isn't a pass to dressing appropriately.

Who would think nothing would be said about it? And the real purpose, to get attention.

[PatSeg]

54. Exactly, a bad clothing choice

is a bad clothing choice regardless of gender. Inappropriate is inappropriate.

Yes, the purpose was to get attention with little or no respect for the office she holds. So many members of Congress have spoken about how in awe they are to serve in the Capitol, to sit in the House or Senate Chamber. It is so disturbing to see a few treat it so trivially as if it is just an ordinary job.

[Tetrachloride]

13. Fashion is a personal choice. The location is political.

The psychology is not my favorite.

I suggest to concentrate on major issues and avoid the comparatively small. In a few months, who will remember her fashion.

I haven’t seen any of the SOTU, except for a pic of the dress. I am interested in the SOTU content and what people will do.

[FeelingBlue]

16. I think we know...

When people are using their clothing choices to draw attention to themselves. I think it’s THAT, that a lot of Americans don’t appreciate: drawing attention to oneself, especially when the spotlight is for someone else. What are the tools at hand for doing that? Clothing. If Matt Gaetz entered dressed as Jesus in Godspell, he’d also be getting the treatment. It’s not dress code. It’s more that Americans are sensitive to people who draw attention in order to elevate themselves. 🤡🎩👒

Most Americans are drawn to people who are so worthy of special attention that OTHERS elevate them, giving special notice. Think John Lewis. He never had to wear a clown suit.

[yardwork]

17. I don't remember that time.

Can you point to a particular golden age of DU when sexism was frowned on? Because I've been here off and on since 2004 or so, and sexism has been a constant problem, in my experience. If anything it's better now.

[Scrivener7]

64. This. Well said.

[Pathwalker]

78. [phone]

[UnderThisLaw]

20. Was there ever

a time when implying that a lot of your fellow members are hypocrites was frowned upon?

[Kaleva]

21. I recall there being many complaints about sexism being tolerated here

[jcgoldie]

22. I agree I DGAF how she dresses

...only how she votes and that's the problem.

[Corgigal]

23. She looks like a fool,

and is trolling her own voters. People who believed they knew her. No, she’s a bully. They come in all sexes.

[betsuni]

52. Yes, she's trolling.

[Ocelot II]

24. It isn't sexist to point out that someone has dressed inappropriately to get attention.

The dress is rather hideous, but that's not the problem; if she had worn it to a party only the fashion mavens would have commented. But she wore it to the SOTU, and she chose it so she would be noticed because that's what she does. This is an observation about her behavior, which is fair game.

[Wingus Dingus]

25. Pfft, I always reserve the right to sneer at famous people's clothes.

It's not punching down or making fun of something somebody can't change about themselves. You want to go all Bjork at the SOTU, you need to reap the scorn along with the juicy attention you're seeking.

[AngryOldDem]

26. Not sexist to call out bad taste.

[delisen]

29. Is it bad taste to call out bad taste?

Since choosing a yellow dress with flouncey sleeves to wear is a matter of personal taste?

I live still in a relatively free country, so I applaud those who dress as they choose, l would like to see more individuality among the suit-wearers however.

[AngryOldDem]

75. Guess so.

Happy?

[delisen]

77. I am generally happy. Thank you. nt

[boston bean]

30. Really? That hasn't been my experience. LOL.

[hamsterjill]

31. For me, personally, there's a line that when crossed

All bets are off. Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert and Kristin Sinema have all crossed that line. They’ve displayed behavior that makes it okay to go back after them in kind. They drew first blood so to speak. They have displayed actions and behavior toward others that has made me have no respect for them. They have voted in ways that stand to harm this country and to people that I care about.

Scandalized? Guess I’m just not as “holier than thou” as some here.

[jalan48]

32. Yeah, that's my biggest worry today too.

[Orrex]

33. Can you cite specific examples?

Because, absent those, your drive-by OP seems like little more than an effort to scold without actually having to, you know, support your position. But I can’t say that I’m surprised.

Also, your OP is a frankly disingenuous misread of the situation. But I can’t say that I’m surprised.

[Rob H.]

82. Looks like you were right

about it being a drive-by scolding. There's a term for that--"concern"...something. It's on the tip of my tongue....

[Orrex]

86. Lol. Yep.

It's not the first time either.

[ForgedCrank]

34. You should

try being a Christian here.
Some days it's very upsetting to read what people think about us.

[Earth-shine]

35. Sinema is getting what she wanted from the dress.

We're all talking about her today.

We need to change the subject. Here's one ... Biden was awesome yesterday, yes?

[Hekate]

43. Biden was indeed awesome. Dark Brandon arose!

[xmas74]

37. She actually wouldn't be allowed to wear it at my state house.

Women can no longer have bare arms in Missouri.

[BannonsLiver]

39. Boo hoo.

[BlackSkimmer]

40. K and r.

Thank you.

[W_HAMILTON]

41. That's quite the reach.

People also often remark around here about how ridiculous it is that Gym Jordan refuses to wear a suit jacket most of the time. Would you claim they are sexist for doing that?

Spoiler alert: when people do something ridiculous to draw attention to themselves, don't try to attach some label to the people whose attention is drawn like they are the problems.

[Hekate]

42. Big Bird? The lady with the big ring that says "FUCK YOU" to the observer? No really, spelled out

She dresses to be noticed, at all times. Okay — we notice. You’d have to be blind not to notice.

As a woman, I don’t think that’s sexist.

[PatSeg]

57. I don't think it is either

She represents the people of Arizona in the Capitol. She should dress and behave accordingly, especially when on the floor.

[Ms. Toad]

45. Unfortunately, I don't remember anytime when it was universally frowned on here.

Although the resistance to being nudged to stop using sexism as a weapon(as long as we don't like the person it is directed at) has gotten much worse in the last few years.

Unfortunately, in my experience, way too many people don't understand that sexism hurts all women, regardless of the the specific target. Just as homophobia, transhostility, etc. hurts all of those in the category used as a weapon. Partisanship has gotten far worse, as has the "anything goes, as long as it is directed against political opponents" mantra.

[Dorian Gray]

70. love this. And ditto....

(And i am definitely guilty of this sometimes, tho I want to hold myself to a higher standard.)

[Vinca]

46. An ugly dress is an ugly dress. If one of the men had turned up in a purple polka dot

suit coat with red pants, we'd be talking about that, too. It's not sexism, it's terrible fashion sense.

[Rob H.]

51. As someone said upthread, it's not sexist to criticize bad taste nt

[BlueCheeseAgain]

53. I thought this might be about a current thread on MTG.

There are gendered insults and comparisons that really should not be used, no matter how much we dislike certain people.

[dalton99a]

55. She looked like a stupid sophomore seeking attention.

[NoMoreRepugs]

56. The GOP n Trump attempted a coup and we are clutching pearls over some saying

so and so looked like a buffoon or whatever in that outfit? Give me a F’en break.

[WarGamer]

59. Like the other day when an overweight GOP Congresswoman was called a "Cow"?

[FakeNoose]

60. Kyrsten Sinema's dress was no better, no worse than MTG's

They were both screaming for attention and they apparently didn't care how they got it.

[dembotoz]

61. i tend to agree. also a thread about sarah hucklee sanders

and her appearance.


The temptation is strong......perhaps if we limit ourselves to would we say that about a man.....
cause i like to say foul things about gop men.

[betsuni]

62. She's trolling. Brightly colored animals displaying ostentatious feathers doing little disco dances

to get attention look silly to other animals. They think, oh, there go the peacocks again.

[Meowmee]

63. While I refrained from commenting on her attire

I felt it was very inappropriate for the occasion. She does this all the time and imo she is clearly a narcissist attention seeker. So I see the attire as being a symptom of a mental disorder in this case. That is really the least of the issues I have with her though. I am an artistic type and have no issues with individuality etc. But in this case I think an outfit that fits the occasion is best for everyone attending. This is not the academy awards etc. I don't see calling this out as sexist.

As for sexism, I think it still exists here and so does harassment of all sorts. I was not here then but I heard HRC received a lot of sexist attacks and general attacks in the past on this forum.

[betsuni]

71. Just search for insults about HRC like "Hillarians" and the like in the site search.

[Meowmee]

74. Thanks 😀

[niyad]

65. You mean like some of the more blatant comments about HRC in 2008 and 2016?

Although, to be fair, a number of them decamped to that other site.

[FlyingPiggy]

66. It's not about sexism. It is about narcissism.

[GenThePerservering]

67. Her reasoning for wearing that monstrosity

is what's under fire.

As for women 'having to make fashion choices' - um, no. It's possible to simply wear business attire when one is conducting business - it's a very well documented appearance that's simply the feminine version of men's business attire. I wore it for years.

No one is going to take women in governance seriously when we have childish clowns like Sinema and Empty G - it shames and diminishes all of us. Like we don't have a hard enough time being taken seriously as it is? You think all those old white man GOPpers are thinking about what she's saying? I doubt it.

[LudwigPastorius]

68. People who dress without respect for the gravitas of the occasion should always be called out.

[Dorian Gray]

69. I agree

(Though, to be fair, that dress did stand out!) it exists here, for sure, but I especially cringe when I see Keith Olberman posting offensive things on twitter knowing they used to DATE!

[betsuni]

72. Sexism here was why I stopped lurking and started commenting.

To support women.

[eShirl]

73. my comment that she was a lemon was also meant to convey that she is a dud

I plead attempted political humor.

[Cadfael]

76. Why is it sexism to comment on her clothes?

Anyone choosing to wear that outfit was desperately hoping to garner attention in the first place. Are we supposed to ignore the fact that she looks like Laa-Laa the teletubby just because she happens to have an X on one of the pair of her 23rd chromosomes?

I actually think Kyrsten Sinema would be disappointed if nobody was discussing her fashion choices….

[egduj]

79. I'm not sure it was ever frowned upon when the target was a non-Democrat.

That and weight-shaming - if they're not a member of the Democratic Party, they're open game.

[BannonsLiver]

81. As it should be.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

80. We have so many double standard here.

We have threads criticizing dress codes in some state legislatures, and then we make fun of Sinema for her clothing choices.

Also, I'm pretty sure that if Ted Cruz was accused of the same things as Al Franken, nobody here would be defending him.

[IcyPeas]

83. this is nothing new for Sinema. just do a google image search for "krysten Sinema fashion"

she always dresses loud. I don't care.

but during the SOTU there were about 10 threads started on what she was wearing.

who cares????

[BluesRunTheGame]

84. I remember reading that ABBA once asked whether they could get a tax write-off for their clothes.

Tax people said okay so long as the clothes were something they’d never be caught wearing in their normal lives. Maybe Sinema is getting a write-off for her crazy outfits. Maybe she’s planning on starting a pop band.

[edisdead]

85. SOTU is not the oscars.

Inappropriate dress for the occasion.