Pence will fight subpeona. How many more "completely understandble" months does that drag this out?

[Silent3]

He's got a new angle too. Oh, not the tired old executive privilege claim, that might inch along through the court system slightly faster because we've all been there before, but:

As president of the Senate, and therefore a member of the legislative branch, he could be protected from testifying under the “speech and debate” clause of the Constitution.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/02/mike-pence-plans-to-fight-special-counsel-subpoena

Everything is fine and dandy, however. This is the noble, sanctified process we should be proud of and have deep and abiding faith in.

Not that the talking heads aren't often wrong, but I was listening to some commentary on the radio saying that, while the courts could expedite this process at Jack Smith's request, they didn't see any particular reason the courts would want to comply.

Oh, and apparently we have to wait for a new grand jury to be convened for this next phase of the noble process too.

[maxsolomon]

1. How many months have you got?

One more than that.

IOKIYAR.

[tritsofme]

2. Sorry that you are annoyed by due process?

[Silent3]

4. I'm tired of undue process, games (and they are GAMES) played with our judicial system...

...that's the rich, powerful, and well-connected use to delay and deny actual justice.

[we can do it]

24. Tired of whining.

[wryter2000]

6. Couldn't judges put these things on a faster track?

Surely, they realize this is a delaying game. I would think they'd resent being played.

[Silent3]

12. I've thought that before too. Yet expediting things doesn't happen often enough.

I think too many people in our judicial system are steeped in this culture of slow-motion processes, and accept it as a norm that needn't be challenged.

[gab13by13]

3. I heard one prosecutor say 2 or 3 months,

I heard another say 8 months. I'm going with the 2 or 3 months. I don't think the Supreme Court will touch this, but who knows.

Time matters, that has been my main point all along.

[inthewind21]

5. This is surprising how?

Expected. And to the question, however many more "completely understandable" months it takes to work its way through the US judicial system. And I know, that pesky constitution interfering with the publics need to know RIGHT NOW! Welcome to the US judicial system.

[Silent3]

7. Oh, not surprising at all...

...just more evidence that none of us should feel any obligation to give our legal system any benefit of the doubt when it comes to holding people like Trump and his cronies accountable.

[tavernier]

8. Obama would be in his second year in jail.

Just sayin’.

[old as dirt]

21. A little surprising to me.

I expected him to let tfg delay things a bit, but not to fight it in his own name.

[FrankBooth]

9. It's not like Pence has a choice

If he wants to win the GOP nomination. He has to appear to fight it, and that's what he's doing. His chances of winning in court with this gambit are slim IMO, and in the end he'll have to testify under oath.

And thanks to whomever sent me hearts!

[Silent3]

10. As a move from Pence, it's not surprising at all. But this also justifies my lack of faith...

...that we can trust our legal system to hold people like Trump accountable, either ever, or at any speed that would deter a future coup attempt.

Bullshit like Pence's move here is pulled all of the time to drag out court proceedings forever, and if we really gave a damn, as a culture, about "equal before the law" we would have long ago found a way to streamline such appeals when they might have some merit, and quickly junk them when they don't.

[FrankBooth]

11. I can definitely understand the frustration

NM

[SoCalDavidS]

13. Harry Litman Said 8 Months nt

[Silent3]

15. If it's eight months to get Pence's testimony, and that testimony is considered vital...

...to have before filing any indictments, just imagine how far beyond those eight months then to do whatever follow-up that might stem from Pence's testimony, the subpoenas that could be fought seeking that follow-up, etc., etc.

And even when it seems to us mere mortals that the DoJ should have all of their i-s dotted and t-s crossed, there will always more mysterious internal "process" to churn through before anything with real-world impact might, just might, happen.

[Fiendish Thingy]

17. I don't think Pence's testimony is vital

Except for one private phone call with Trump on late January 5/early January 6, all of Pence’s interactions with Trump and Eastman were witnessed by others who have already testified.

I think it’s more about getting him under oath to corroborate the others’ testimony, as well as the things he wrote in his book.

[we can do it]

14. DOJ is hiring.

[Fiendish Thingy]

16. SCOTUS ruled on Trump's EP claims in about two months

Of course, a lower court has to rule first. If Pence loses in a lower court, SCOTUS could refuse to hear the case, and the lower court ruling would stand.

Remember, in every case where Trump was a named party that came before the current SCOTUS, they ruled against him. I don’t think there would be a bias in Pence”s favor.

[bigtree]

18. oh, dears! The legal process!

...the angst of it all!

Defendants exercising their prerogatives! How will the republic survive this??!!!



Yes, this is the noble, sanctified process we should be proud of and have deep and abiding faith in.

Not guaranteed outcomes, but due process of law. Old enough to remember when that meant something to liberals like me. Limitations to govt. prerogatives, like the kings of old made to yield to the Magna Carta, principles enshrined in our Bill of Rights.

It's impatience with our democratic process of justice and law which insurrectionists have used as their justification for disregarding or subverting the functions of government. Any remedy that intends to legitimately or convincingly confront those abuses must adhere to the very process of law they defend.

The time taken by the Garland investigation isn't a canard to hide some fecklessness or lack of courage. Their adherence to a full investigation will serve to hold a fractured nation together as this Democratic administration's DOJ works to hold their opposition party accountable.

[we can do it]

25. Great reply.

[CrispyQ]

19. Dems are fooling themselves

if they think 81 million people are going to get out & vote again, to stave off authoritarianism, if there aren't any indictments by next summer. I don't think you can ring that bell twice.

[bullimiami]

20. Delay is the point. Run the clock. The judicial system getting played again and again.

[Me.]

22. And Yet, HOw Many In terviews Has He Given About This

Oh wait...and he has written a book and now he can't find it in himself to testimfy about his words?

[stopdiggin]

23. yes. legal process. so useless. so frustrating.

we should probably just ditch the whole concept. I'm sure we'd all be better off ...
So much more efficient when we just drug people out of jail cells in the middle of the night - found a bit of rope and a handy tree or lamppost ...

------ ---- ---- ------

[we can do it]

26. This is exactly what the drumpsters would do. We should be better.

[stopdiggin]

27. yeah. and the constant 'bitch' gets a little old

too. And isn't it charming to see a great many of the same base instincts and impulses in 'our own' ...

[Silent3]

29. There's a big difference between calling out the mob with torches and pitchforks...

...and having a court system so easily abused by pathetic delay tactics, which mostly help only the powerful.

I do not fear that we'd degenerate to a Mad Max or Lord of the Flies world by reforming our system to streamline and/or quickly reject this crap. And until that's happens, if ever, skepticism about elites being held to account is quite justified.

[stopdiggin]

31. thing is - there's little in your

post (or other's of the same stripe) about 'reforming the system.' It's all about, "I'm so disgusted / disillusioned / distraught / disenfranchised .. " "We need results!" "It's not working!" and yada, yada.

Here's another idea - maybe we could just make a big reality TV show - vote people on and off the island every week. Instant gratification obviously being so much more popular than a clunky old 'system' or deliberative process ...

[Silent3]

32. So, expressing disgust and disillusionment comes with some sort of obligation...

...to offer a detailed solution to whatever disturbs me, and, lacking such a clearly stated solution, then the only "reasonable" assumption is that I must want lynch mobs or gladiator fights or justice via game show?

[stopdiggin]

35. nope. it's a discussion board

and, as such, you're perfectly free to express your opinion (supported or not). And I'm equally free to contribute why I think that 'opinion' is shallow and repetitively boring drivel.

And, with that - I believe we've both said our piece.

[Silent3]

36. Yes, and I'm equally free to express that your ability to extract implications from comments...

...is extremely poor.

I shouldn't have to supply huge volumes of proof that the US justice system has a terrible record of holding the rich and powerful to account. If that history is unknown to you, it's not my job to assume the burden of proof to cover you lack of knowledge.

There's certainly a lot of "shallow and repetitively boring drivel" from the rah-rah rose-colored-glasses crowd too. Their optimism is what requires a lot of justification, and their tolerance for how badly our justice system functions is mysterious to me at best.

I sure hope that there isn't any superstitious thinking behind these reactions, as if we can't expect justice unless we "put positive energy out there!" to help magically make it happen.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

28. Andrew Weisman-Interesting thread on Pence legal argument Re Jack Smith subpoena.

This is a good thread on this issue

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Silent3]

30. Lawrence Tribe (and I hope he's right) was having none of this...

...and seemed to think Pence's gambit is clearly meritless. I also hope he's right that the courts have lost patience with this shit, and will probably deal with this quickly. "Quickly", of course, is very subjective.

[Mr.Bill]

33. The Supreme Court will have a decision on this

sometime during the George Santos administration.

[Silent3]

34. I thought we were already in the Santos administration...

...but maybe that's only because Santos invented/will invent time travel too.