That Ohio railway disaster? TRUMP'S FAULT!

[CousinIT]

WHY hasn't the media mentioned this? First they ignored the story altogether for 2 days.

Then when they bothered to report it, they conveniently left THIS PART OUT.

So they only told PART of the story, while protecting Big Rail/Trump from any accountability in this mess. As usual.

Fact-Norfolk Southern created the Ohio Disaster by lobbying Trump and the GOP Congress to rescind all Safety Regulations

Fact-GOP has spent the last 4 decades destroying Govt for corporate profit over public safety

Link to tweet

REFERENCES:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/2/13/2152804/-In-2019-Trump-acted-to-make-Railroads-and-Highways-less-safe

https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/secretary-buttigieg-must-overhaul-rail-safety-regulations-reinstate-upgraded-brake-requirements-for-freight-trains

https://www.courthousenews.com/trump-kills-safety-rules-against-train-explosions/

[Freethinker65]

1. Why not wait until we know the facts about the accident before assigning blame?

[TheRealNorth]

4. I hear what you are saying....

But the fact is the RW propaganda machine is fully engaged writing the narrative that blames Biden and Buttigieg and Democrats in general. That has to be balanced with a counterpoint.

[TheRealNorth]

10. I think it needs to be made clear...

That the emergency response is the sole responsibility of the local and state authorities, at least until the governor declares a disaster and FEMA is called in.

[W_HAMILTON]

11. Because we already know enough.

The more modern electronic braking system that was proposed would have lessened the derailment due to the faster reaction time during accidents -- any accident.

[Caliman73]

15. Most "accidents" are caused by or facilitated by cuts in safety measures and staffing ...

so that corporations can make more profit. They (the corporations) reap benefits financially while externalizing the costs (usually in human life and damage to the environment) to the rest of us.

The exact cause of the derailment will be determined, if not shared honestly with us, but the reality remains that money has a major influence in how policy is created. We know that Conservatives value money and the power structure as it is more than they value human life. They have shown it time and again.

So while you are correct in saying we don't want to assign blame until we know the facts, as I said, the facts almost always point to problems caused in the pursuit of profit. Some poor rail operator is going to be the face of this disaster. They will pin it on operator error in the conducting, or the storage of the materials, or some other thing where it was the "workers" fault, but as stated, safety regulations were gutted, and the work force has been cut by 30% while more rail cars have been added. Workers are dis-incentivized and often punished for requesting time off.

The system is messed up because it has been deliberately tilted to favor owners and shareholders without regard to labor and safety.

[Cha]

32. These Are FACTS....

Link to tweet

[Freethinker65]

36. Actually those facts, as yet, have not been proven to have caused this horrific event.

While I do not approve of anyone rescinding regulations to score campaign donations nor political points, I will wait until the cause(s) are truly identified.

[Freethinker65]

35. Reminds me of rush to expensive legislation for a tank collapse into a major river.

Ended up all of the well intentioned, many very expensive and time consuming, proposed regulatory measures would not have prevented the actual cause. The cause was determined to be not following engineering specifications for construction of the tank itself.

[keithbvadu2]

2. MTG Complains Not Enough Money Went Toward Rail Safety in Bill She Voted Against: 'This Is a Failure

Marjorie Taylor Greene Complains Not Enough Money Went Toward Rail Safety in Bill She Voted Against: ‘This Is a Failure’

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-complains-not-enough-money-went-toward-rail-safety-in-bill-she-voted-against-this-is-a-failure/ar-AA17uqHc?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d9372c5f7d7d487797abfb54ec6c478f

I must have missed the part where she put forth a bill to spend more on it.

[Caliman73]

16. That argument is only successful because Conservative voters are so ignorant and blindly stupid.

Of course you are 100% correct in pointing it out.

That is standard Conservative thought, "Break government, then rail on how government doesn't work". The problem is that people fall for it all the time. Even people on our side, when they run into problems with government services. They get mad and say "government sucks" not understanding that one side, Our side, wants to fund government and continually improve effectiveness and efficiency of government support. The other side wants to cut or eliminate all government programs that do not directly benefit the wealthy.

Greene is not sophisticated enough to dog whistle, but then Conservative voters have become so ignorant, that they might not even understand the dog whistle anymore so you just have to come out and say the stupid thing.

[Hiawatha Pete]

3. The same airbrake system that's also used on school buses & trucks was not cause of Ohio derailment

According to latest reports,it appears the root cause of the derailment was not the brakes, but rather an overheated journal bearing on one of the railcars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Ohio_train_derailment

That brake system is the very same airbrake system (designed by George Westinghouse) that is used on schoolbuses & trucks around the world to this day, and is not unique to railways.

Not to say that Electro Pneumatic brakes wouldn't have helped to mitigate.

The real question is did one of the automatic hotbox detectors located every 10 miles not pick up the overheated bearing, and if the detector wasn't getting a reading, why didn't the train operate at reduced speed at least until it reached the next working detector?

At time of reporting, NTSB was not sure yet if the hotbox alert that was received came from the prior from the hot box detector in Salem, or the next one in East Palestine.

The system is intended to catch an overheated bearing before a catastrophic derailment occurs and has worked for years, so what was different this time?

If the alert wasn't triggered when the train passed the first detector at Salem, then that needs to be investigated - which I'm sure the NTSB is doing.

[Disaffected]

8. Thank you for bringing some fact and reason to the debate. nt

[W_HAMILTON]

12. They may be facts, but they are missing the point.

No one said the lack of the advanced braking system CAUSED the derailment; they have said that the advanced braking system would have lessened the impacts from the initial derailment due to the faster reaction time in stopping the railcars that were not directly affected by the mechanical failure that led to all of this.

[Disaffected]

13. "No one said...."

IIRC it has been said or implied many times both on this forum and other media. Even the OP for this thread implies that.

And what specific evidence do we have that a better braking system would have actually mitigated the impact of the derailment in this particular case? The NTSB accident report has not yet been released, no?

[CousinIT]

21. Brakes seem to have been involved according to this....

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2023, 03:08 PM - Edit history (1)

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3857172-five-lingering-questions-over-ohio-train-derailment-toxic-spill/

Railroad safety experts and union members have reiterated calls for more stringent federal oversight of the rail industry following the derailment.

One area of constant tension has been brakes. Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) received reports that crews of the Norfolk Southern train pulled the emergency brake, and a mechanical issue with one of the railcar axles was discovered, CNN reported.

The possibility of a brake failure points to a behind-the-scenes battle in American railroad regulation — and a place where critics say that both parties have resisted reforms that would make Americans safer.

Most trains run on a system where wheels stop one at a time using a compression system, left-leaning news outlet The Lever reported. By contrast, electronically controlled pneumatic brake technology halts all the cars simultaneously — dramatically reducing stopping time.

While Norfolk Southern initially touted these advances, it was also part of a coalition of rail companies that successfully fought the regulations, winning a reprieve from the Obama administration and a repeal under the Trump administration, according to The Lever.

The outlet reported that the Norfolk Southern train wasn’t regulated as a “high-hazard flammable train” even though its crash triggered a fireball.

Cited in the article above: https://www.levernews.com/there-will-be-more-derailments/

Steven Ditmeyer, a former senior official at the Federal Railroad Administration, told The Lever, “Would ECP brakes have reduced the severity of this accident? Yes.”

Breaks? Not breaks? The safer ones should be required and likely would have helped as I understand it. As well as other safety measures, ignored by Big Rail which controls government rather than the other way around, and as witnessed by the recent gov't rulings forcing rail workers to work without any sick leave. Regulatory capture pays big -- except for lives and property lost in catastrophes and environmental and other destruction of nearby communities when safety regulations are skirted, weakened, ignored or put aside due to corporate control of regulators. Obama should have refused to lift the regulations, Trump should not have been allowed to just dump them altogether, and they should be reinstated. NOW. Let the corporate whining commence.

What will NTSB say? Don't know. But it does appear better breaking systems & maintenance, would have helped by all I've read. Now, if people want to poo-poo that because NTSB didn't say it, by all means, do so!

[Cha]

34. Thank You for bringing the FACTS. nt

[W_HAMILTON]

23. Where does it say that?

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2023, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Granted, it's a lot to go through and I may have missed it, but I don't see where they are saying that having the new braking system would have PREVENTED this derailment entirely, but even the poster you congratulated reiterated that such a system could have mitigated the disaster that it became.

And, once again, you don't need the finalized report to know that a better braking system would have had a quicker reaction time and prevented further derailment from subsequent railcars that did not directly experience whatever mechanical failure did cause the first one to derail. That's the whole point of the more modern braking system: to mitigate derailments and other accidents by reacting faster to put the brakes on the other rail cars.

[Hiawatha Pete]

17. No nothing missed, I said it, right there in black and white in post #3:

"Not to say that Electro Pneumatic brakes wouldn't have helped to mitigate."

Was the solution to the Ford Pinto problem to issue every driver and passenger a fire extinguisher?

And unlike the Ford Pinto, in this case we have a system that's worked for decades, yet for some reason this derailment now happened.

EP brakes might give a 24% shorter stopping distance and yes every little bit helps. Would it have prevented the cars from rupturing? I would hold off making any such claim before the NTSB is done their investigation.

If the NTSB & FRA decide that EP brakes are the way to go, then that would be the perfect time to beat R's over the head with it (ie, closer to campaign/election time).

[W_HAMILTON]

22. Then that's the point, so argue that rather than creating strawmen.

You yourself admit that the more modern braking system could have mitigated this disaster.

That's it.

That's the point.

[Hiawatha Pete]

24. "Might" have mitgated. That's for the NTSB to decide.

All I'm saying is don't trip coming out of the gate. And keep it in your (our?) back pocket come election time.

[W_HAMILTON]

26. If we are going to wait for the final report to comment on it...

...then you shouldn't be making any pronouncements one way or the other, yes?

Having said that, of course people are going to comment on it and it's not exactly a reach to think that a better, more modern, faster-reacting braking system could have prevented further derailment from railcars not directly affected by the presumed mechanical failure that kicked this all off because *that's what they are specifically made to do.*

[Hiawatha Pete]

31. Unless the NTSB backtracks on their journal bearing findings,which at this point I think is unlikely

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2023, 06:12 PM - Edit history (2)

I think it's safe to conclude that lack of EP brakes was not the root cause.

What IS 100% certain is that EP brakes are designed to offer a shorter stopping distance.

The actual brake effort achieved, and resulting braking distance, however is a combination of many variables like the condition of the rail/available adhesion to the rail, wheel slide, the sanders on the locomotives, ect.

What's NOT 100% certain yet is whether having EP brakes would have prevented the cars from rupturing in this case.

As proud as I am of my electrical engineering background, I am not a mechanical engineer and cannot state whether or not the physical impact to the tankers after an EP brake application (had it been installed, operating properly and had it actually reduced the speed) would have ruptured the cars or not.

Neither can anyone else on this forum, or twitter, or FB, unless they are part of the NTSB investigation.

The NTSB has individuals at least as qualified as I am, in fact they have a whole TEAM of them - with ALL the different specialists (electrical, mechanical, ect) required to find out what went wrong & make sure this doesn't happen again.

If politicians want to weigh in on rail safety before the investigation is concluded that's their prerogative.

My problem is with specific claims of "civil war era brakes" by certain media articles/journalists commenting in a field they know nothing about without consulting the proper subject matter experts.

[Disaffected]

29. This is the crux of the matter:

"EP brakes might give a 24% shorter stopping distance and yes every little bit helps. Would it have prevented the cars from rupturing? I would hold off making any such claim before the NTSB is done their investigation."

All else, including whether EP brakes could have, should have, would have... is speculation w/o the official report.

[Hiawatha Pete]

33. +1000 n/t

[Hiawatha Pete]

18. Thanks!

[GoCubsGo]

6. But, but, but "where are Greta Thunberg and Al Gore?"

"Why aren't they there? Why aren't they saying anything?" Because, somehow a couple of climate change activists have something to do with a railroad/transportation regulations failure involving chemicals used in plastic production (and not fossil fuels), apparently. This is what is the latest narrative from MAGALand. I kid you not Lordy, these RWNJs are so goddamn stupid. They can't even get their "Whatabout" narrative right.

[Hiawatha Pete]

7. The wingnuts are tripping over which deep state or chemtrails conspiracy theory...

...they are trying to tie to this.

That said, the braking system is not what caused the cars to leave the rails. See my post above.

And tfg is still a dick who tried to remove every environmental safeguard known to man.

[fescuerescue]

14. I'm all for blaming Trump for everything. But what ACTUALLY happened?

In this explosion? Did the brakes fail? Train run off the tracks?

Personally I haven't seen an explanation of what physically happened other than it exploded because of a politician (which one depends on who is doing the talking)

[Jose Garcia]

19. Has the Biden admin moved to reinstate these regulations?

[W_HAMILTON]

25. It has been handcuffed by law in certain regards:

Link to tweet

[Jose Garcia]

27. This law was passed in 2015. Who was President then?

[W_HAMILTON]

28. Obama, who put the regulations in place to begin with.

Then a law was passed that essentially sped up the decision-making process on whether or not to implement the more modern braking standards, the Trump administration took office, and surprise! They determined that it was too costly and not worth the benefit and the regulation was shelved.

As I've said before, this is #516,629 on the list of unintended consequences from short-sighted voters not voting for Hillary in 2016.

Now, the current administration is handcuffed by that law and the findings of the previous administration, but you know what can be done to fix it? Congress taking up legislation immediately to require more modern braking systems to be put in place on all trains carrying hazardous materials. And it would have a much better chance at surviving the inevitable Supreme Court challenges, given that this Republican-dominated Supreme Court has already shown it is more than willing to roll back regulations put in place by various executive branch agencies and deemed that such regulations can only be put into place if passed by Congress (e.g., the OSHA vaccine mandate).

The Republican-dominated Supreme Court part is #1 on the list of unintended consequences, even though I'm not sure you can call it unintended since Hillary and all of her supporters like myself readily alerted everyone that the Supreme Court was on the ballot. Too bad just enough didn't listen to her...

[Cha]

30. Because they're Busy Blaming DOT

Buttigieg.. and Not just the media & RW but there was an OP on here yesterday who blamed Pete, too.

Link to tweet

TY & Joe Murphy