Why the Massive Tesla Recall Is So Bad

[marmar]

(Slate) On Wednesday the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced a massive recall of Teslas equipped with Full-Self Driving Beta, the technology that enables vehicles to control aspects of driving, such as turning and adjusting speed, in urban environments. The FSD package, which currently costs Tesla owners an additional $15,000 when they buy their cars, requires the driver to be watching the road at all times (although Tesla enthusiasts have figured out ways to trick the cars’ attention guardrails for years). The NHTSA recall affects over 360,000 Teslas with FSD, which is pretty much all of them.

Critics have long warned that FSD is dangerous, and the recall’s language suggests they were right. According to NHTSA, FSD “may allow the vehicle to act unsafe [sic] around intersections, such as driving straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane.” That sounds bad, as do other FSD behaviors cited by the federal car-safety agency, including speeding, rolling through stop signs, and running yellow traffic lights “without due caution.”

The recall is voluntary, meaning that it was jointly agreed upon by Tesla and NHTSA. The “remedy” will be a free over-the-air software update for Tesla owners, who will be notified of its availability by April 15.

One can reasonably assume that FSD owners will receive some kind of patch by that date. But how confident can they or the public be that it actually fixes the serious problems NHTSA identified? Missy Cummings, a professor of engineering at George Mason who recently left a position as a senior advisor at NHTSA, has her doubts.

“Even if you work 24/7 for the next 60 days, I’m not sure there are enough hours to adequately address all the issues NHTSA has raised,” she told me. ............(more)

https://slate.com/technology/2023/02/tesla-recall-full-self-driving-nhtsa-musk-regulation.html

[yardwork]

1. Elon Musk is a con artist.

[dalton99a]

2. "The U.S. does not require that automated car technology be tested and approved for safety"

Assuming Tesla does claim to have resolved the FSD problems NHTSA flagged, Americans may well have to take the company’s word for it. Why is that? Because the U.S. does not require that automated car technology be tested and approved for safety before being offered to the public. That goes for initial systems as well as for over-the-air updates.

Tesla’s big recall should serve as a wake-up call. A recklessly designed “autonomous” system shouldn’t be installed on hundreds of thousands of vehicles before the feds intervene. We can prevent that from happening by requiring that these technologies receive pre-approval before they are sold to the public.

Notably, there is no similar FSD recall in the European Union, because Tesla hasn’t received the green light to offer it there. Until regulators grant that permission, Tesla can’t sell FSD to Europeans. During a speech last year in Berlin, Tesla CEO Elon Musk himself summarized the difference in transatlantic car regulations: “In the U.S. things are legal by default, and in Europe they’re illegal by default.”

In fact, the U.S. does use pre-approval to improve transportation safety—just not for cars. But if a plane manufacturer is designing a new piece of software or hardware, the company must work closely with the Federal Aviation Administration to get the go-ahead prior to deployment. This system, sometimes called type approval or type certification, does not always work perfectly (see the 737 Max), but the impressive safety record of American aviation speaks for itself: The U.S. experiences under 0.1 deaths per billion passenger miles, less than 1/100th the risk of dying in a car crash.

But for autos, the U.S. has basically said to carmakers, “You’re good. We trust you.” Manufacturers place a sticker on each new vehicle stating that it complies with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, and they’re all set. Carmakers do generally abide by FMVSS, but—and this is a giant flashing “but”—there is nothing within it pertaining to autonomous driving technology or so-called Advanced Driving Assistance Systems (ADAS) like Tesla Full-Self Driving. As a result, carmakers are free to design and install whatever technology they like, as long as their vehicle conforms with the outdated FMVSS, which was drafted under the assumption that a driver is always handling the car.

[CurtEastPoint]

4. sounds like our approach to 'reasonable, responsible' gun ownership. I hope this ruins him.

[2naSalit]

11. +1

[MayReasonRule]

7. Meanwhile..

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/27/23572942/mercedes-drive-pilot-level-3-approved-nevada

[tanyev]

3. There needs to be a massive class action lawsuit against Tesla and Elon Musk.

On behalf of everyone injured or killed by their FSD.

[ToxMarz]

15. Also the apparently 360,000+ people that paid $15,000 for FSD which is being disabled

That's about $5.5 billion right there.

[tanyev]

21. That too. Prosecution would probably be appropriate for those injured or killed,

but I don't have a lot of faith in that ever happening.

[EYESORE 9001]

5. You know he's gonna shitpost on his own platform

which won’t help in his dealings with NHTSA.

[NewHendoLib]

6. I am nearly as tired of hearing about Musk as I am about TFG.

I wish these toxic narcissists would just go away.

[Otto_Harper]

8. I have no doubt that they will eventually go away

The big question is whether they are going by themselves, or are they taking all of us with them.

[NewHendoLib]

10. TFG will definitely go away sooner due to his exemplary diet!

[Eyeball_Kid]

9. Musk's massive wealth entitles him to make lives miserable.

He really doesn't give a shit about people. If he did, he wouldn't design death traps and sell them as luxury cars.

[LiberalArkie]

20. Does Mush have actual wealth or is it in stocks and lines of credit?

[Autumn]

18. He's not going away. In fact he stands make billions off new federal law.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-to-open-some-superchargers-to-other-vehicles-white-house-says-2ed35fd5

Tesla Inc. TSLA -0.46%decrease; red down pointing triangle will open part of its proprietary Supercharger network to other kinds of vehicles for the first time, the White House said Wednesday. The move qualifies the company for a share of billions of federal dollars on offer to build a national network of electric-vehicle chargers.

Tesla plans to open at least 3,500 new and existing 250-kilowatt chargers to drivers of all kinds of EVs by the end of next year, the White House said. Fast chargers can repower cars in about 30 minutes, but those available to any kind of EV are in short supply across U.S. highways, where their presence is considered crucial to boosting EV adoption as auto makers convert fleets to electric.

Tesla already has a U.S. network of more than 17,700 fast chargers at over 1,650 locations, but in the U.S. they aren’t available to other types of vehicles. The network is popular among its drivers and widely regarded as the most reliable in an industry where finding operable equipment can be challenging. The White House said the company would triple its Supercharger network.

I have been assured by some here he is the only one that can do it.

[dalton99a]

23. +1. Once again his personal wealth will increase exponentially courtesy of taxpayers

[Autumn]

24. I'm calling it Welfare for the Wealthy.

Courtesy of the US Government.

[bucolic_frolic]

12. Be on the lookout for Tesla's on foot and in traffic

And what is to guarantee owners actually do update their software? And shouldn't they avoid self-driving until the update is completed?

[markodochartaigh]

14. Presumably the vehicles are connected to the internet at least

as soon as they are turned on. If the vehicles pose a danger to the lives of others, and the danger cannot be predicted until immediately before the incident, why are the vehicles not simply disabled now, via the internet?

[keithbvadu2]

13. I'm an old fart curmudgeon. I do not trust it.

[Jokerman]

16. So they've created a computer that drives like a self-centered asshole.

driving straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane

speeding

rolling through stop signs

running yellow traffic lights without due caution


I see these things done by humans every day.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. I hope I don't see self-driving BMWs anytime soon. nt

[patphil]

17. The technology is moving faster than the laws needed to regulate it.

I think the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, NHTSA, needs to put the whole idea on pause until laws regulating autonomous vehicles are put in place.
A whole lot more testing needs to be done; none of it on actual public roads and highways.

A software patch isn't an acceptable solution. It's a band-aid.

[sarcasmo]

19. Musk told beta testers not to complain

"Please do not ask to be included in early beta testing and then complain."



https://electrek.co/2022/08/24/elon-musk-tells-early-tesla-full-self-driving-beta-testers-not-complain/

[Kablooie]

22. If anyone's interested, I've been driving with FSD Beta for over a year.

Personally I haven't come across it ignoring a turn lane. The car has occasionally entered a turn lane when the navigation tells it to go straight. It has always made the legal turn and then re-routed the navigation but I don't doubt it has made this mistake for some people. It has been good at judging yellow lights and is better than I am at deciding to go through or stop. I've never experienced a yellow light turning red when I'm in an intersection. Rolling stop signs was fixed months ago. Now I usually have to press the accelerator because the car insists on coming to a complete stop which feels uncomfortable.

It does have issues but every few weeks the software is updated with improvements and often issues go away but new ones emerge so it's not as simple as just fixing these problems. It's a whack-a-mole kind of thing. Overall the software is much more capable than it was a year ago and each iteration is a little more competent.

The issues are almost never dangerous. It is things like taking a turn a little wider that necessary or moving into another lane then moving back into the original one for no reason. These only happen if there are no other cars around. Early on there was an issue that could have caused an accident but Tesla withdrew the software with hours and now does a lot more internal testing before releasing each version.

I'm as disgusted with Musk's antics as any of you but I like my Tesla a lot have been impressed with it's technology and convenience. I'm a little embarrassed driving it sometimes because of Musk, but I don't regret buying it at all.

[lame54]

26. Fearing recall, thousands of...

Fearing recall, thousands of driverless Tesla's seen heading towards Mexico border