Boner just said that tax rate increases are OFF the table.

[BlueMan Votes]

Obama had better stay STRONG this time around. the people have spoken.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. The Bush tax cuts expire automatically

Obama is holding all the cards.

[still_one]

8. We don't have the house. What he will need to do is take it to the people, unless thereis something

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)

The senate can do without the house

[Horse with no Name]

11. If Reid will take the filibuster off the table (or fix it to where it can't be used as a weapon)

it can be done in reconciliation. That is what I have heard.

[Bandit]

13. It is actually quite simple, Let all the Bush* tax cuts expire and then on Jan 1 submit a bill

to give tax cuts to 95% of the people and DARE the GOP to vote against tax cuts for the majority....It is a no brainer IMO..

[jberryhill]

31. Bingo

[indepat]

34. Agree: Repukes would surely be hammered in the 2014 national elections

[argiel1234]

36. +1

Obama needs to make it clear that the house will not stop progress for the whole country. There are many things he can do by executive order and working with the senate, as well as ending or curtailing the filibuster in the house.

there are many procedural moves the Democrats in the House can take that shut down debate and endless right wing bills. Fuck republicans and fuck those who apologize for them even more.

[still_one]

47. I like it

[Liberalynn]

51. + This is best approach

[GeorgeGist]

45. THE TAX CUTS """""EXPIRE"""".

Without the Senate AND Obama, the House cannot continue them.

[flamingdem]

10. But then there will be a middle class tax increase no?

That seems to be the problem, guess Boehner just wants to start tough

[Marrah_G]

28. So what you do is let them expire and then put forth a bill to cut middle class taxes

You Make them say no to middle class tax cuts

[teddy51]

2. How about we get Boner off the table?

[a geek named Bob]

4. I've an idea... How about we hit Boner WITH a table? n/t

[Obamamama44]

14. +1 nt

[txdemsftw]

17. +1000000

[outsideworld]

18. that will do

[a geek named Bob]

57. I know I'm playing to the stereotypes...

But I'm Italian...

How about we all have a nice glass of red wine, put on some opera solos, and then go to town on Boner with a cheap coffee table?

I'm having a Thompson anti-nixon moment here.

[theKed]

73. I dare Obama to stand up in front of Boehner and

tell to go get his fucking shine box.

[PD Turk]

29. that's not hard

It's happy hour, in just a little while he'll be under the table

[Thrill]

3. I wonder if him and McConnell are going to be challenged

for their leadership spots

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. He can take his chances with the fiscal cliff

The GOP have nothing left to offer or threaten with.

They offered DADT repeal and threatened with unemployment extensions last time. Now they have squat. Zero.

They can be responsible for everybody's taxes going up, or vote on targeted cuts for middle class families. That's it. It's in their court.

[fascisthunter]

6. well, in truth, there will be no tax increases

just an expiration as was planned all along.

[BlueMan Votes]

9. the plan all along had been to have them expire 4 years ago

how'd that work out?

[fascisthunter]

12. seems to have helped the Dems win

All depends on what plan you believe...

[BlueMan Votes]

20. so doing the same thing as was done 2 years ago would help them win in 2014?

[fascisthunter]

22. no... but in the short term it worked

people were fed up... the message is clear. Let the tax cuts for the greedy expire... after all, they don't live check to check like MOST do. In fact, like a drug addict addicted to its fix, they don't even need it.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. But you can't just let part of them expire as is

If nothing is done, it's all or nothing.

[fascisthunter]

26. I hope all do... and if the people demand enough, it will

[SickOfTheOnePct]

64. Do you believe that the middlle class is going to demand that their taxes go up?

Not to mention the fact that if all of the tax cuts expire, it will be spun as the President breaking a campaign promise.

[fascisthunter]

65. um.... whatever you say

[SickOfTheOnePct]

72. Thank you for proving

that you have no idea what you're talking about.Given that you can't carry on a conversation, the only conclusion is that you don't even know what the Bush tax cuts consist of.

When they expire, everyone's tax rates will go up - lower class, middle class, upper class and the rich. If that's permitted to happen without an immediate follow on bill to cut taxes in the lower brackets, it will be spun as the President breaking his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class.

If you can't understand that simple fact, then there's not much to discuss.

[hoboken123]

54. Why can't you?

I'm missing the reason not to let them expire.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

62. I didn't say they can't expire

I said that it isn't possible for part of them to expire and part of them to remain, at least as the law is now.

[fascisthunter]

66. um that poster knows exactly what you are saying

you believe that when the upperclass is taxed we all get taxed in turn, so we shouldn't even try to tax the uppercases.

Just say what you mean... stop playing games with yourself.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

69. Nope, not what I'm saying at all

Perhaps you should read the entire conversation. The comment was made that the upper bracket cuts should expire and leave the lower bracket cuts. As the law is written, that isn't possible. Either they all expire and then new lower bracket cuts or implemented, or they all stay.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. It has nothing to do with what I want or don't want, it's just the fact of how the law is written. Congress seems to understand that - why can't you?

[BlueMan Votes]

30. a drug addict most definitely needs their fix...

that's pretty much why they're called addicts.

and when the tax rates go up on the 'greedy', they go up on everyone.

even worse for the under $104k/year folks- the payroll tax reduction ends as well(as well it should.

[fascisthunter]

32. "...and when the tax rates go up on the 'greedy', they go up on everyone."

Ahhhh... so how do you really feel about these tax cuts expiring?

[BlueMan Votes]

38. for me personally? it won't make much difference.

my disability is less than $15k/year.

[fascisthunter]

39. You seem more concerned than you are willing to admit

After all, you may have to pay more taxes if we allow tax cuts for the wealthy to expire. If you use the RW meme that those who raise taxes on the wealthy will raise taxes on all, well then, maybe we the people should allow them to pay none at all, right?

[BlueMan Votes]

44. you may want to reread those posts, and hold the attitude.

thee reason i said that when the rates go up on the greedy, they go up on everyone else is because when the bush tax cuts expire- they expire for everyone.

[fascisthunter]

48. so what is done to the wealthy effects all of us

is that how a democracy is supposed function... sounds more like an aristocracy forcing the rest of us to socialize their loses while we all work pay check to pay check.

I disagree with what you IMPLY... that we not allow these tax cuts to expire, and if they don't EFFECt you so much, why care?

[BlueMan Votes]

63. i disagree with what you seem to think i imply...

like i said- try r-e-a-d-i-n-g the posts again, and leave the attitude at the door.

[fascisthunter]

67. nah... I think I'm good.... close it.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. In reality, it's both

The tax cuts will expire, which will result in a tax increase.

It's completely accurate to say that someone who is paying a 10% marginal rate today and will pay a 15% marginal rate after Jan 1 will experience a tax increase.

[fascisthunter]

27. It depends on how you frame it

the way you just did, why yes, I would have to agree.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

61. I'm not big fan of framing things in order to distort meaning

The way I said it is not framing, it's just plain fact. If the tax cuts expire, which is what should happen, tax rates for everyone will be higher, which is, by definition, a tax increase.

[fascisthunter]

68. sure you aren't

[SickOfTheOnePct]

70. Not sure what your problem is

When tax cuts expire, tax rates go up. That's a tax increase. Is that really so hard to understand?

[maxsolomon]

7. Republicans say a lot of things

To paraphrase Shakespeare, all of them are tales told by an idiot, signifying nothing.

[ladjf]

35. Here is Macbeth's speech:

"MACBETH
She should have died hereafter;
There would have been a time for such a word.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. "

[maxsolomon]

42. I was close!

I don't remember so good no more.

[ladjf]

49. In high school we had a lit teacher that required us to memorize parts of some

poetry and literature. At the time , we hated it. But, I still remember many of
the pieces she made us learn. This particular soliloquy was one of them.

[trailmonkee]

15. he's just going to buy a lot of stock in the morning than say something different in the afternoon..

then cash out

[elleng]

16. and I heard that cancer said something stupid and typical today.

We may have to resurrect or reinstate CLEAN THE HOUSE NOW!!!

[CakeGrrl]

21. Yeah, stay "strong"

and let unemployment benefits go hang at the expense of giving the GOP the political finger.

You DO remember that's what they were threatening to let go if they didn't get some of what they wanted?

Or would that pissing match have been fine with you if you didn't have UI extensions at stake?

[GeorgeGist]

46. $800B for them ...

$80B for UI.



Great arithmetic.

[TheKentuckian]

50. UI was my sole source of income and only shield against being homeless

I did not support the deal with all my own fat in the fire.

[Blue4Texas]

24. Leverage

Apparently the President has more leverage this year and can let the tax cuts expire if GOP will not work with him even if the under 250K are also affected (will take several months to affectuate) because unemployment (and therefore need for unemployment benefits) and other markers are better than they were a year ago.

[TheKentuckian]

59. Better than at the time but worse than when the action was taken and the extensions are gone

We are behaving irrationally in this area and the answer has really been to just stop talking about it, talk about how much things are improving, flat accept current conditions as the bottom side of "the new normal", and get on with learning to love austerity.

The casino is once again flush, so emergency over no matter conditions on the ground for real people is what is really going on.

Want to really dominate elections, fight those fuckers tooth and nail. That is how you get folks off the sidelines. Fuck an undecided and to hell with "independents" (who are little different than affiliated in their voting habits, they vote their lean). The largest tappable resource are the disaffected non-voters and you get a fair chunk of them by cutting the bipartisan bullshit. People don't want ANYTHING the TeaPubliKlans have to offer.

[mmonk]

25. Call their bluff. From their standpoint,

experience has shown them Democrats cave when they stand their ground. Surprise the assholes one time.

[dem4ward]

33. I think boner should spend more time with his right hand...

[Shrike47]

37. I suspect they will try to bargain with raising the debt ceiling as their chip.

May they rot.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Then fine. Let bush tax cuts expire. And let mandatory defense cuts kick in, too.

Everyone acts like that would be the end of the world. Fuck it.

"the middle class could have kept their rates, except for the GOP house"

There you go.

[mick063]

41. You nailed it

A side benefit would be getting the deficit down.

I know this is low prioity for progressives, but it does remove a big campaign chip from the table for the GOP.

Let tax holiday expire, cut the corporate welfare, and get the deficit under control. Combine that with the racist, anti women policy of the Tea Party. Slip in a middle class tax cut in the midst of the 2014 campaign cycle and viola, super majority in the House.


The Teabillies will have no theme to run on except a two year old, worn out, "Ben Gazzi" tantrum and an agenda far outside the mainstream.


By the way...Very proud of my Senator Patti Murray that will take the first step off the ledge. Big political risk, but of all the Senators, she has the most capital to spend. She is a true leader of the Democratic Party.

[kentuck]

43. There will be no "tax increases"

These taxes are due to expire. They were never permanent. If they go back to the Clinton levels, that was written into the original Bush taxcut laws. If Obama can get the Congress to leave the tax rates in place for the first $250,000 of income, then everybody gets a tax cut, rather than a tax increase.

[PA Democrat]

52. Republicans need a course in remedial math.

How do you negotiate with idiots incapable of basic math?

[Cha]

53. boner's blowing smoke outta his a$$. I have no worries about President Obama

staying "Strong".

[laruemtt]

55. we need a referendum -

put it directly to the people. since the do-nothing congress refuses to do their jobs, we'll do it, and fire our "servants."

[AzSweet]

56. This kind of obstructionism..

...is what pissed my life long Mormon, Republican father to vote for President Obama. Was the last straw for him.

[WinkyDink]

58. Republicans NEVER, EVER accept defeat. This is the same "WE'RE really in charge" attitude

they had the past term.

I had to just now tell my Republican friend, "The losers don't get to tell the winners what to do."

[lonestarnot]

60. Yes he better!

[blueclown]

71. Boehner doesn't know what he is talking about.

The expiration of tax cuts are already part of current law.

The question is.. does Boehner want to raise taxes on middle class Americans? Or will he go along with a middle class tax cut in 2013? That is how the discussion will be framed. Not Boehner's way. Boehner is being incredibly dishonest here. Will the media call him out on it?

[rudycantfail]

74. I expect Obama to fold

with his new 10:1 chip lead. Like a fool, I still have some hope though.