Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans parents or siblings

[NullTuples]

— even if they live in another state, if Florida Senate Bill 254 passes. Thanks to Michael Knowles at CPAC saying out loud that we should simply be "eradicated" to protect society, this one slipped under the radar for most news outlets.

"Senate Bill 254, introduced Friday by State Senator Clay Yarborough, would grant the court authority to take emergency custody of kids under the same statute that protects them from domestic violence and abuse.

The state could take temporary custody of children if "it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child" is "at risk of or is being subjected to the provision of sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures," according to the proposed bill text.

The proposed bill defines sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures as hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and surgeries or procedures that "affirm a person's perception of his or her sex if that perception is inconsistent with the person's sex" at birth.

The court would also be granted "jurisdiction to vacate, stay, or modify a child custody determination of a court of another state to protect the child from the risk of being subjected to the provision of sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures," according to the proposed bill text. "The court must vacate, stay, or modify the child custody determination to the extent necessary to protect the child from the provision of such prescriptions or procedures.""

https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-anti-trans-bill-court-custody-kids-gender-affirming-care-2023-3

Please listen to trans people when we tell you the GOP is waging genocide against us. And that every one of these actions by the GOP are "important". It's getting worse week by week. And even if this specific bill doesn't pass this session in Florida, if there's not sufficient public outrage it will eventually become law somewhere. This bill in Florida is the direct result of Texas instructing CPS to investigate trans families, even though that didn't go anywhere (yet) in that state.

Look back at 2016 when the first "bathroom bill" was floated in a Republican state (N. Carolina's HB2). Now in 2023 red states are simply adding that provision into other bills that get signed. They're continually pushing the edge of the envelope as to what people will tolerate so long as it's not their family being attacked.

This is what the early stages of genocide look like. Please help us. Step out of your comfort zone if and when you can. It could make a difference.

[leftyladyfrommo]

1. People need to get out of Florida. They are not safe. nt

[NullTuples]

4. There is a network. But there are fast becoming too many states, and too many families.

39 states have already proposed anti-transgender bills in 2023. Many won't pass out of committee. But some will. And Republicans in every one of those states have promised to keep pushing, to keep fine tuning and resubmitting their bills until they pass. And making them worse as the bar is raised by their counterparts in other states who get their bills passed into law. None of those 39 states can be considered "safe".

https://www.tracktranslegislation.com

But then, neither can states like California, not with complete security. All it will take is for a carefully crafted lawsuit to get put in front of one of Texas Republicans' favorite judges, and then on to the Fifth Circuit, and finally to the US Supreme Court.

Their goal is to make the entire country unsafe for us. Their goal is to remove our ability to be part of public life in America.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

51. scary times.

[MayReasonRule]

46. Caddo Parish, LA here...

Y'all Qaeda Nat-C GOP Fascists run all the states from Texas to Florida.

It's Y'all Qaeda's Spanish Inquisition.

Folks are suffering and dying all throughout our troubled land as the result of the incestuously pervasive depravity of these traitorous ne'er do wells.

sigh

[vlyons]

2. and then eventually imprison adult LBGTs to protect society

Yes they have to hate somebody.

[SWBTATTReg]

3. Oh great. Before, we had tRUMP's border guards losing kids at the border, some of whom still

aren't reunited w/ their families, and now we have desantis' brown shirts, doing the same thing w/ kids in FL. Nice.

[Hortensis]

5. It would legalize extreme child abuse and crimes against humanity.

This will not be passed, and if it was it would be struck down as soon as possible.

Just IMAGINE its effects on people who can move away or refuse to come, and what it would do to state revenues, as well as workforce.

Bet Moscow Mitch is tearing his hair over the wave of these hate bills from people too eager to persecute to keep it mostly zipped until they can.

[NullTuples]

7. Just to clarify, there aren't enough of us to impact revenues or workforce; that's why they chose us

A contributing factor, anyway.

[Hortensis]

10. I understand what "great" targets you are, NullTuples.

My husband's a Jew, not so different at maybe 1% in Nazi Germany and 2% here now and also a convenient "traditional" target for haters for millennia.

But far more people would refuse to condone it. Many facing a choice of where to live or send business would not feel a state where this was happening was appropriate for them, or to raise their children. No doubt worrisome numbers of high-quality employees needed for management and other important jobs are already saying, "Not Florida." And business goes where the people they need are willing to live.

We know because this is what happens, and it's a really big deal.

This wave of hate will crash and recede, and people like Knowles and Yarborough will carry this record around their necks for life.

[mike_c]

6. I cannot imagine this bill will succeed

The provision for separating children from parents outside the jurisdiction of Florida courts should sink it, I would hope.

Today's Republican legislators cannot govern because they rely upon widespread, permanent disaffection to keep their constituency engaged. They cannot solve problems because they must constantly emphasize their base's grievances. Without the ability to govern, they need ever more outrageous culture war stunts to keep their constituency's attention. That's all they've got. Stunts, smoke, and mirrors. That's the modern GOP.

[ShazzieB]

20. Talk about a massive overstep.

The provision for separating children from parents outside the jurisdiction of Florida courts should sink it, I would hope.

If that doesn't sink it, then we'll all know this country has gone even crazier than we thought.

Seriously, though, what IS it with states thinking they can legislate thing that happen outside their borders? I'm starting to wonder if there are ANY Republicans who have actually read the Constitution, especially the parts that specify what powers the states have. More and more of them are starting to act like they think they have a lot more power than they actually do.

This is the worst example I've heard of so far, but i think it's part of an authoritarian trend where states aren't satisfied with legislating about what their residents can do within the state but are also trying to control what they can do in other states with different laws. (Like trying to stop pregnant people from traveling to another state for an abortion.)

As I said above, this proposed bill is the worst so far, at least the worst thing that I myself know about. Forcing people to give birth against their will is terrible, but making it illegal for certain kinds of people to even exist is beyond horrifying. I absolutely hate this pogrom that the RWNJs have launched against the LGBTQIA+ plus community and especially this campaign of persecution against trans kids and their families.

I am willing and eager to help in any way I can, and my so-called comfort zone can go fuck itself.

[NullTuples]

33. From what I've read it would be like having an outstanding warrant if one re-enters the state?

So long as the other parent and child stay in a "safe" state (39 have already floated anti-trans bills this year) nothing will happen.

Unless the parent in Florida gets a court ruling saying they now have custody. Which this law explicitly provides for.

And sure, maybe it would eventually be defeated. But not before raising (lowering?) the bar, and not before ruining lives...

[TNNurse]

8. I need to send money to the ACLU.

[OMGWTF]

18. Please do. I'm a long-time, proud, card-carrying member and they're in my Will.

The ACLU is the most American organization out there.

[TNNurse]

26. I am a member as well, just need to send some money.

[Deuxcents]

35. Yes...it's time for me, too.

[halobeam]

50. Yep me too. n/t

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

52. ACLU is my go to donation when concerned about reproduction rights, civil rights, marginalized group

just about anything....

[nwduke]

9. Screaming at CPAC:

“GET GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR LIVES” (((unless it’s stuff we don’t like)))😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

[Nevilledog]

25. Also @ CPAC

Link to tweet

Tweet text:

Alejandra Caraballo

@Esqueer_
·
Follow
Michael Knowles is openly calling for genocide against trans people at CPAC. "Transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely."


Watch on Twitter
11:40 AM · Mar 4, 2023

[ancianita]

11. This is maddening. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE FL ACLU!

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. The bill was introduced on Friday, ie yesterday, the last working day before today

Isn't it a bit soon to start shouting "WHERE THE FUCK"?

[ancianita]

27. Fine.

No, it's never too early to shout "WHERE THE FUCK".

It's not as if this illiberal legislature hasn't previously enacted unconstitutional laws, is it.

[NullTuples]

38. 39 states have anti-trans bills - 340 as of March 1st; ACLU goes after them once they're laws

But even then, the GOP learned from the Trump years - keep the attacks coming faster and faster and nobody can react to all of them.

It's tactical. Tie the ACLU & similar groups up with the early laws, like who can play on sports teams.

Then once plenty of resources are tied up fighting those, bring in the next wave of atrocious laws like book and medical care bans.

Then once those are taking up even more resources, bring out the even worse ones that threaten to take people's children away from them.

And we're still not at the worst they can do; I get the feeling they're going to ramp up from now until the 2024 elections.

[ancianita]

39. I hear you loud and clear. It's a money war. But they underestimate this administration, DOJ, ACLU

and Democratic governors and AG's. What is this child trafficking about, anyway.

Any ramp up would have to be aided and abetted by sexist media hype and amplification.

Did I say this sounds like a huge money war, too?

[NullTuples]

40. I hope you are right. All the Biden administration & ACLU can do is take them to court.

And quite frankly after Dobbs...I don't trust our judiciary any more.

[ancianita]

41. I doubt the courts will fail us. The SCOTUS has such low polling it might actually do its job

on the constitutionality of these state human rights and child trafficking schemes. It has its legitimacy on the line.

[Arazi]

43. Lol, you really think these judges care about legitimacy?!

[ancianita]

44. Do you know our record in the courts? Take a look. Then circle back and tell me more.

[Arazi]

45. I don't believe the 6 conservative SCOTUS judges give a shit

About legitimacy, or the law frankly.

They’re ideologues. Determined to help bring on christofascism under the guise of “originalism”.

[ancianita]

48. I'm not just talking about them. I'm including the whole federal system. You're not

looking at the bigger picture. Not all cases end up in the SCOTUS, you know.

One huge group of wins were the 61+ over state election challenges in 2020.
But that doesn't indicate what courts would do when minors' civil rights and parental rights are challenged.

Thing is, on this topic, I'm not going to do the bulk of the homework on court rulings -- not duckin', but it's kinda late in the day and I'm not up for the challenge. You might, though.

[Arazi]

53. Your post #41 specifically mentioned SCOTUS only

That was the post I responded to.

Although I think the OP is right to be deeply concerned across the board

[ancianita]

54. Fair enough.

[Mariana]

56. What do you propose the ACLU do?

[ancianita]

57. What do I propose the ACLU do if states take parental rights & judgment away?

The state could take temporary custody of children if "it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child" is "at risk of or is being subjected to the provision of sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures," according to the proposed bill text.

The proposed bill defines sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures as hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and surgeries or procedures that "affirm a person's perception of his or her sex if that perception is inconsistent with the person's sex" at birth.

The court would also be granted "jurisdiction to vacate, stay, or modify a child custody determination of a court of another state to protect the child from the risk of being subjected to the provision of sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures," according to the proposed bill text. "The court must vacate, stay, or modify the child custody determination to the extent necessary to protect the child from the provision of such prescriptions or procedures.""

The ACLU can challenge the state law in court for infringement of parents' constitutional rights of custody over their own children. When states decide they can make a law to remove kids from their homes and violate their 14th Amendment rights...

Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U.S. 702 (1997), that the Constitution, and specifically the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, protects the fundamental right of parents to direct the care, upbringing, and education of their children.

Only if a state could prove under existing laws that the parents are guilty of negligence or abuse can the children be removed for that. When the child him or herself wants something as personal as changing his/her gender, it's not a right of the state to step in and remove parental rights to support their child.

[Mariana]

58. What do you propose they do right now?

You asked where is the ACLU, as if they should be doing something right now. What do you propose they do about this bill?

[ancianita]

60. I propose that right now the ACLU write op eds, get on social media, get publicly vocal to educate

Floridians and the rest of the country about the threat to the rights of parents, including any legal ramifications for the country.

Do you have any thoughts about this, as well?

[LiberalFighter]

12. State legislators attempting to create and pass legislation

outside their jurisdiction need to suffer personal consequences.

[Lonestarblue]

13. Hitler did not start with the murder of Jews. He started with those deemed to be unfit as part of

the German Master Race. Many Republicans have publicly declared that LGBTQ are following an abhorrent lifestyle. They are demonizing LGBTQ and claiming that their kids are being groomed by educators, books, television, etc. It is not a big leap beyond where evangelical and MAGA Republicans are today to imagine them passing laws making it dangerous and impossible for all LGBTQ and trans people especially to be safe. Given the current Catholic evangelical Supreme Court, I cannot guess how they would rule on such laws. I hope they would not be upheld, but then I hoped Roe would not be overturned. The media needs to do a better job of reporting on these attempts to pass heinous laws.

“At the beginning of World War II, individuals with mental or physical disabilities were targeted for murder in what the Nazis called the "T-4," or "euthanasia," program.

The Euthanasia Program required the cooperation of many German doctors, who reviewed the medical files of patients in institutions to determine which individuals with disabilities should be killed. The doctors also supervised the actual killings. …

Despite public protests in 1941, the Nazi leadership continued this program in secret throughout the war. About 200,000 people with disabilities were murdered between 1940 and 1945.

The T-4 program became the model for the mass murder of Jews, Roma View This Term in the Glossary (Gypsies), and others in camps equipped with gas chambers that the Nazis would open in 1941 and 1942. The program also served as a training ground for SS members who manned these camps.”

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-murder-of-people-with-disabilities

[Deuxcents]

36. America needs more history lessons.

[NullTuples]

37. He started with terrorism & killing of Jews; autistics & disabled people were years later?

From what I've read while deep-diving into the history of Hans Asperger and my family's history, Jews were already under attack. Jews had been under attack for years.

Autistics & disabled people were used not only to test out the toxins and delivery methods, but also the public relations machine that turned their own country against them and convinced people that they didn't deserve to live. Asperger provided a means to separate the autistics who were useful to German society (his, "little professors" as he called them referring to their pedantic speech and special interests) from those who became promoted as, "useless mouths" along with anyone who was otherwise disabled. They were portrayed as possibly fatal drains on the post-WWI national economy that had little to spare.

March 9, 1933, several weeks after Hitler assumed power, organized attacks on Jews broke out across Germany.

Hans Asperger's work for the Nazi party started in 1941 & quickly resulted in the first killings:
https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis

The Nazis started using Zyklon B in extermination camps in 1942.

[sakabatou]

14. FL takes another step into fascism.

[moreland01]

15. Guess the Kardashians

need to look out!

[icymist]

16. Anybody notice this phrase?

jurisdiction to vacate, stay, or modify a child custody determination of a court of another state

This isn't only about trans people. This is a test to see a way of overturning laws from another state.

The trans people are the canary in the coal mine. You better believe you're next.

[ancianita]

31. No.

Holy shit. This is so fucking evil, it's beyond Nazi.

Lisa Monaco just conducted an all day and evening visit in Florida, and she's keeping her eye on this state. All some Floridians have to do is call her and the DOJ tip lines, and they will sic their field offices on these people. There should never be such language that oppresses the human rights of anyone. This is America, dammit.

Thanks for catching this.

[OMGWTF]

17. Floriduh and much of the South is so fking unAmerican right now that it stinks.

[Sky Jewels]

21. The GOP -- The Party of Freedom

[Evolve Dammit]

22. It is a right wing insanity that must be crushed. DOJ must intervene on these domestic terrorists.

[bucolic_frolic]

23. That sounds very likely to result in kidnapping charges at some point.

[BlueIdaho]

24. See you assholes in court.

Not even DeSatin can get away with this…

[area51]

28. Agreed, this is attempted genocide.

[chiffondior]

29. In more normal times, you could count on the courts to put an end to this nonsense.....

.....but with the highest court in the land being so compromised, it's scary to think about what could happen if a wannabe dictator like DeSantis tries to take his fascist laws that far up the chain. It is time to stand up and be counted, the LGBTQ+ community has been a big part of the Democratic tent and we are under attack. I am begging the entire party to circle the wagons because they are coming for us and they are not being shy about it. I feel like the compromised SCOTUS has emboldened every evil endgame plan that the right has.

[ancianita]

32. True. But

I'll be damned if this party lets him win. SCOTUS is the eye of every Right Wing cyclone whirling through this country.

[Freethinker65]

30. Can courts in other States remove children from Florida , because it's Florida?

It really seems like Florida is no place to raise or educate your children. It isn't safe if you go to buy skittles wearing a hoodie, it denies basic education and access to AP coursework, it threatens to throw teachers/doctors/pharmacists/librarians in jail, it flys kids and adults out of State and dumps them wherever it pleases, it denies global warming but is surrounded on three sides by water, it discourages vaccinations, etc.

[ancianita]

34. The DOJ can decide the appropriate jurisdictional arena for this. We'll have to find out.

You're right about all the air flight space around this state. A lot of criminality gets away in the skies. And money laundering flows like water through the Everglades.

Never underestimate what organized Florida criminals will try to get away with.

[electric_blue68]

42. Wow...this Michael Knowles guy is spewing henious stuff! I sure hope this law doesn't pass! ....

I hadn't heard of him before.

And he's a NY Stater? Oh, boo. Though I'm quite well aware that NYS has violet*, purple, and red areas.


*yes, I know violet isn't used in political party numbers descriptions. You could say it's a bluer shade of purple.
...Blue, Violet, Purple [the visible spectrum ends here, but Nature and artist colors go onward], Red Purple...etc


And yikes, could get it going as a law elsewhere now that it's being floated. NOT good! I'll have to keep my eyes open on this particularly. Of course, I know the LGBQTI Community is still in various levels of danger through the decades esp Post-Stonewall, depending on where you live etc.

[jmowreader]

47. Let me see how this might go down.

Frank and Mary are Democrats who live in Boston. They have a daughter Susi. Mary’s mother Frieda is a Trump supporter who lives in Florida.

Frank and Mary never call Frieda because every time they speak to her she condemns them to the bowels of Hell.

Anyway, one day Frieda gets a new phone to get around the blocks Frank, Mary and Susi have on theirs and begins interrogating Mary about Susi, to learn Susi now wants to be called Sam. They’re considering taking her to a therapist to see if she might be trans or if she just likes the name Sam better.

Two days later four men appear on Frank and Mary’s doorstep claiming they are from the Florida Department of Children and Families and they have an order taking Susi into custody as she is in danger of sex reassignment provisions.

416,800 Americans died between 1941 and 1945 to stop shit like this from happening in Europe and Japan, and it’s happening again. Where the fuck is Albert Pierrepoint when we need him most?

[Initech]

49. This is some straight Nazi bullshit.

I honestly have no doubt that given the right circumstances, the cons would resort to mass murder and even genocide. These are but baby steps to the concentration camps.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

55. If the parents live in another state they'd be justified in shooting these offiicials

if they tried to take custody.

Fuck around and find out DeSantis.

[ecstatic]

59. Every move they're making is like they're preparing for a real life gilead

A fake reason to confiscate kids? Almost like witch trials, because very few families will fall into their stated grievance category. Where will the kids be placed? In nice qOP homes? Or will the kids be "lost" and trafficked or exploited for child labor?

Also, is this just a campaign to scare liberals/progressives away from Florida? Because it's probably working. Just as with Texas.