New Record Protests in France: Anger Over Macron Pension Plan (raises retirement age from 62 to 64)

[Celerity]

Travel, schools and services were disrupted by nationwide strikes and protests for a sixth time as the battle over the retirement age intensified.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/world/europe/macron-france-retirement-protests.html

https://archive.is/qnHHl


Protesters faced off with the police during a demonstration in the northern French city of Rennes.

PARIS — Idle trains, closed ports, empty schools, canceled flights, uncollected trash, shuttered refineries. That was life in France on Tuesday as labor unions attempted to bring the country “to a standstill” and flooded streets in towns and cities around the country with more than a million marchers, protesting President Emmanuel Macron’s plans to raise the legal age of retirement to 64 from 62.

After two months of an uneasy confrontation and five previous demonstrations that have unfurled across the country, neither side has shown any sign of backing down. Many wonder if Tuesday will be the beginning of a reinvigorated movement that could force the government’s hand, or instead become a final yell of frustration — lingering in the air before fading, as Mr. Macron pushes through his change.

“Will either group manage to convince public opinion or not?” asked Chloé Morin, a political scientist and former adviser to two prime ministers. Between the government, the unions and protesters, she added, “you have 67 million French people who are watching this match.”

Unions and authorities provided wildly different estimates of the number of marchers on Tuesday — a record 1.28 million, according to the Interior Ministry, versus a record 3.5 million for the unions, a gap large even for France, where discrepancies between their estimates are common.

snip


Strikers blocked the highway leading to the Roland Garros Airport in Sainte-Marie on the French Indian island of La Reunion.


Only one in five trains were running on many national railway lines; the Paris metro was heavily disrupted; some flights out of Paris’ main airports were canceled.


Students outside their high school in support of the strikes.


Police officers protested outside the police station in Roubaix, northern France.

[roamer65]

1. Macron is a goner in the next election.

I hope a RW pukebag doesn’t end up president.

[ITAL]

2. He can't run again anyway

This is his second term.

[roamer65]

3. Term limited?

[Celerity]

5. Yes, he has to sit out one term, so 2032 would be his next election, if he runs again.

[Hortensis]

6. From another NYT article: "This is the time to enjoy life."

A declaration of cultural values often heard among the protestors.

Fight Over Retirement in France Is a Question of Identity Resistance to the government’s plan to push back the retirement age is not just about working longer. It springs from a deep sense of what defines France as a nation.

The government’s plan has struck a deep and sensitive nerve in a society that cherishes retirement and reveres a generous balance between work and leisure perhaps more than any other Western industrial country. France’s attachment to retirement is complex, touching on its history, identity and pride in social and labor rights that have been hard won. ...

The problem today is that the baby boomers have retired and are living much longer than when the system was devised, while the system’s motor — the younger work force that pays for their pensions — is not keeping up.

After World War II, only one-third of people lived to see retirement. Those who did, got access to just 20 percent of their former salary. Since then, France’s pension payments and life expectancy have both ballooned. Today, the average French pensioner is richer than the general population.

The average French person now spends more than a quarter of their life in retirement, and much of that in good shape, which French statisticians measure as “life expectancy without disability.”

No longer a short reprieve before death, retirement is now seen as “the afternoon of life, a time that is blessed. ... It’s a time of liberty, to finally enjoy your grandchildren, your interests, your desire to travel, to volunteer and be elected in your community.”

It is also seen as compensation for working life. “There is this vision in France,” Mr. Guérin added, “that working time is time waiting to be able to enjoy life.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/world/europe/france-retirement-macron.html

[Celerity]

7. That is similar to how Sweden looks at retirement as well.

Pretty damn far from what the reality is in the US for so many.

The Rethugs want to make it a time to either enjoy cat food after losing most all (if you even had any) saved wealth, and/or a time to work until you die.

[Hortensis]

8. :) Come on. That last isn't reality for almost all Americans,

and no one should want it to be true. Most are doing barely okay to very well -- and significantly better once they're no longer raising children. Retirees can be happy on Social Security alone -- if it's their nature to be. The poor scrabbling for survival are few among retirees because almost everyone qualifies for Social Security.

But some other nations are doing some things much better. To our shame because We the People have always had both the power and far more national wealth than France or Sweden to do it with.

We've been slacking. Government of, by and for the people requires involvement of the people to make it work. No one else CAN do The People's job. No government can, even one created for that like ours. No economic system can.

Both here and there, as prosperity grew with technology, we kept our national retirement plan very basic, but people there chose to distribute national wealth more generously, both during the working years and after through their retirement systems. And their national culture of what this new period of life should become developed with it.

It has nevertheless already become the norm among most Americans to see the retirement years as a new, possibly best ever period of life. We have that reality to build on.

And I believe we're much closer economically than your post depicts. Retirement on Social Security plus whatever personal wealth individuals have accumulated is the norm. Retired working people whose new freedoms and personal savings allow them to live various levels of the good life, better than ever before, are already all over the place, everywhere we go. But, numerous as they are, they're not almost everyone so their retirement wellbeing has not become our national identity.

Retirees too poor to drive or take a bus to the beach or an event in a park are uncommon. But too many, both those who could as well as those who couldn't, have little to no personal savings to augment SocSec -- and they are a big norm. They're stuck pursuing their happiness on budgets too tight to allow significant participation in the world of new opportunities open to those who fill the millions of restaurants, malls, airplanes, concerts, art classes, resorts, cruise ships.

That is impeding the development here of that national sense of satisfaction and wellbeing and the smug national pride of knowing we Americans created something precious for ourselves.

We can do something about that. Troubled times like these typically shake the people up and lead to great advancements. Or great disasters of course.

[Celerity]

9. I find your positings to be far too rosy for many older people in the US. Just reading many poster's

stories here on DU belies elements of your own post.

you said

Most are doing barely okay to very well -- and significantly better once they're no longer raising children. Retirees can be happy on Social Security alone -- if it's their nature to be. The poor scrabbling for survival are few among retirees because almost everyone qualifies for Social Security.

SSA 2021 Social Security Fast Facts and Figures

https://www.grsconsulting.com/2021/09/29/ssa-releases-2021-social-security-fast-facts-and-figures/

In September 2021, the Social Security Administration’s (SSA) Office of Policy released Fast Facts & Figures about Social Security, 2021. The publication answers frequently asked questions (FAQs) about the programs administered by the SSA and focuses on data related to Social Security retirement, survivors, and disability benefits, as well as Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Most of the data are derived from the SSA’s Annual Statistical Supplement to the Social Security Bulletin and the 2021 Social Security Trustees Report.

Some of the report’s highlights include:

Overall, about 69.8 million people received SSA benefits or assistance in 2020, with benefits averaging $1,544 per month for retired workers, $1,277 per month for disabled workers, and $1,455 per month for non-disabled widows and widowers.

In 2020, about 5.8 million people were newly awarded Social Security benefits, of which 58% were retired workers, 11% were disabled workers and 31% were survivors and dependents.

In 2020, about 55% of the adult SSA beneficiaries were women.

[Hortensis]

10. Most Americans don't post here, and most retirees don't

have SocSec horror stories to tell. The average benefit check is now just short of $1,700 a month, and many millions live on their checks. Like us. My husband and I never pursued high earnings, both retired early (as our jobs disappeared), and as a consequence of our own choices have very modest checks, but we live off them and don't touch our retirement savings.

Again, our national wealth is beyond incredible. THAT's the reality Americans have to work with. And a critical asset is that, even though it's extremely badly distributed, a large number of Americans are retiring as able to enjoy their leisure years as most in France and Sweden. Don't erase them from the equation -- their wellbeing is our lodestar. Raise the rest.

230 million of us. We could go beat Leonard Leo and his ilk into oleo, and then turn our attention to, you know, VOTING to restore regulation and redistribute wealth as needed. But just going straight to voting to do that for ourselves, while committing to taxing them into nothing more than political greasy spots as a critically important secondary goal, would be my choice.

[Celerity]

11. $1700 a month doesn't even cover rent and utilities in a shedload of areas in the US

Again, our national wealth is beyond incredible.

Wealth inequality in the US is staggering (and increasing). The top 3 or 4 billionaires have more combined net worth than the bottom 50 percent of the nation.

[Hortensis]

12. Of course it doesn't cover rent in many neighborhoods.

THAT's a huge reason why so many people move on retirement to where the cost of living is far less expensive. It's NORMAL to plan to, often for years. And to make other changes that will both save money and enhance living, such as trading snow shovels for bikes and nearby shopping.

Retirement MH parks all over the country are full, btw, of retirees who could afford to downsize to normal homes, or stay where they were, but choose to free up money for luxuries, like travel. Now that I think of it, the cultural attitude in the kind of retiree parks where people are strolling and biking, lunching while chatting about their grandchildren and day trips, and heading off to other activities is a lot like France's.

We HAVE the vote, we have the government, we have the advanced nation, we have the wealth (!), and we have the people who realize their generations are wonderfully blessed with a priceless new period of their lives to make something of. The only change required is a culture of expectation in voters.

[brooklynite]

13. Update from Paris...

Our train to Gare du Nord ran but was packed with people who had been stranded by the trains that didn’t run. On arrival in Paris, the Metro and regional rail were spotty, and taxis were overcharging everyone. That said, all the stores and restaurants were open and life seemed pretty normal.

Wednesday I had no trouble traveling to London. The right to strike is in the Constitution, but so is the right to essential services. So the Unions can’t do the “right to the death” approach that American Unions employ, and have to continue providing a baseline level of services at all times. Most Parisiennes seem to take it in stride.

[Autumn]

14. 62 to 64? Our politicians are talking about raising the age to 70 to get SS. Americans will

sit on their asses and tell them thank you for the shit sandwich.

[Celerity]

15. it already is 70 to get max payout, and if you are born 1960 and after you get fucked out of 8%

when waiting until 70 to start taking the payout versus the born 1954 and before doing the same thing at 70.

So if you are 1960 and later born, and your SS payout at 67 (what called full regular) was $2000, but you waited until 70 to take it

you get 2480 per month

BUT

a 1954 and earlier born doing the same thing on $2000

gets

2640 per month

that's $19,200 less for the 1960 and after born over the first 10 years

if you live for 20 years after 70, that is $38,400 less

for the 1960 and after born versus the 1954 and before born

and that is on 2000 usd month 'full' (at 67) payout

the difference is even greater if your full (at 67) payout is higher

the younger people are already getting fucked

and if 70 is the new 'full' age (it's 67 now)

then we likely will have to wait until 73yo, hell maybe 75yo to get max payout

it's ratfuckery