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Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:15 PM

Michael Beschloss makes a really important point


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Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply Michael Beschloss makes a really important point (Original post)
Bleacher Creature Mar 18 OP
SheltieLover Mar 18 #1
PatSeg Mar 19 #67
wryter2000 Mar 18 #2
TheRickles Mar 18 #27
wryter2000 Mar 18 #51
Cadfael Mar 18 #53
Dave says Mar 18 #60
moondust Mar 18 #3
Upthevibe Mar 18 #23
calimary Mar 18 #46
cilla4progress Mar 18 #4
KPN Mar 18 #17
Fullduplexxx Mar 18 #5
OMGWTF Mar 18 #6
Captain Zero Mar 18 #15
electric_blue68 Mar 18 #18
calimary Mar 18 #47
electric_blue68 Mar 18 #49
central scrutinizer Mar 18 #58
MacKasey Mar 18 #16
Upthevibe Mar 18 #25
Hekate Mar 18 #7
MurrayDelph Mar 18 #10
Sky Jewels Mar 18 #21
not fooled Mar 18 #39
stopdiggin Mar 18 #8
onenote Mar 18 #44
Raven123 Mar 18 #56
DENVERPOPS Mar 18 #61
stopdiggin Mar 19 #70
DENVERPOPS Mar 19 #71
Cosmocat Mar 19 #69
erronis Mar 18 #9
Shipwack Mar 18 #34
erronis Mar 18 #37
True Blue American Mar 19 #62
Ligyron Mar 19 #63
Rebl2 Mar 18 #11
PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 18 #12
electric_blue68 Mar 18 #50
momta Mar 18 #13
Callalily Mar 18 #14
KPN Mar 18 #20
Kennah Mar 18 #19
Upthevibe Mar 18 #22
Cheezoholic Mar 18 #24
soldierant Mar 18 #45
FakeNoose Mar 18 #26
dhol82 Mar 18 #28
FakeNoose Mar 18 #31
True Blue American Mar 19 #64
UpInArms Mar 18 #29
evolves Mar 18 #30
irisblue Mar 18 #32
temporary311 Mar 18 #33
Poiuyt Mar 18 #35
JI7 Mar 18 #36
Ferrets are Cool Mar 18 #38
True Blue American Mar 19 #65
LittleGirl Mar 18 #40
Historic NY Mar 18 #41
relayerbob Mar 18 #42
jaxexpat Mar 18 #43
chowmama Mar 18 #48
NNadir Mar 18 #52
LetMyPeopleVote Mar 18 #54
rurallib Mar 18 #55
BigmanPigman Mar 18 #57
tclambert Mar 18 #59
DownriverDem Mar 19 #66
cab67 Mar 19 #68

Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:18 PM

1. Nixon not having been duly punished, prison term, is precisely why magas feel so emboldened

The only way to stop bullies is by meeting their affronts with extraordinary force, physical or legal, as the case may be.

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 11:20 AM

67. Or basically do to them

what they would do to lawbreakers. Nixon was quite a "Law and Order" politician and he wouldn't be nearly so lenient.

That said, he at least should have been tried and judged in a court of law. Even if he didn't go to prison if found guilty, history would forever know him as a criminal, a felon. That pardon was too easy and his crimes deserved far more attention. Meanwhile, I don't think the man ever thought he did anything wrong. Pompous and arrogant to the end.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:19 PM

2. Hindsight

It's true, of course, but a lot easier to see now.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:40 PM

27. People were predicting this back then, too, so it's not at all hindsight.

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 05:10 PM

51. I followed Watergate closely, even watched all the hearings

When Ford pardoned Nixon, I just felt relief that it was over. I'm sure there were people who saw the error, but most of us felt that the punishment of having to resign in disgrace would be a deterrent for the future.

It might have worked if the Republican party hadn't become so corrupted. The Republican party of the early 1970's would have convicted Trump and thrown him out on his ass.

I know it was an mistake, but it would have been very difficult to predict Trump and the current Republican party.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #51)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 05:38 PM

53. My mom sent a telegram to Ford

It read : “Add another name to the cover-up list”

My mom and dad (and I) watched every hearing that we could. She was really pissed by that pardon.

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Response to Cadfael (Reply #53)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:18 PM

60. I was too young, but ...

… my parents felt the same way. They were pissed.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:25 PM

3. And it didn't take long.

The presidency of Ronald Reagan in the United States was marked by numerous scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials, the largest number for any president in American history.
~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals

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Response to moondust (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:31 PM

23. moondust.......

And, of course, the right worship Reagan....He did so much harm...

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #23)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 03:09 PM

46. No kidding. And worshipped all the while by the far wrong.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:30 PM

4. Ford's pardon of Nixon was

my first demonstration. I was a college student in Vermont at the time!

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:15 PM

17. Well that's pretty cool! In the great state of Vermont, eh? I was a college student

a bit south of you in western MA at the same time -- but still working my summer job around then.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:35 PM

5. That's when I 1st learned of presidential pardons

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:36 PM

6. Eisenhower was the last honest Republican president.

Nixon, Reagan, GHW Bush, Cheney the Dick and GeeDumbya, and now Traitor Tot -- should all have been sent to prison.

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:08 PM

15. You know, I find myself saying this far too often

Eisenhower really stood up to generals who wanted to nuke everything in the 50s. Whenever they suggested it, I read that Ike's reply always was, "THEN, WHAT?"

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:15 PM

18. Oh, I didn't know That! Phew! I do know his "beware the Military Industrial complex" quote late...

on. (I was 7 in 1960)

A decent President.


And what a great, chilling retort!

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Response to electric_blue68 (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 03:20 PM

47. In hindsight, that was the last time we had a Republican president

we could actually respect, if not agree with.

Eisenhower. What was it? Some seven DECADES ago?

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Response to calimary (Reply #47)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 04:10 PM

49. Definitely respect. Maybe agree with some things? Must look up his record. It's been about 62 yrs!

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Response to electric_blue68 (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:56 PM

58. Read the 1956 Republican platform

Pro-union, reasonable and a stark contrast to now. They have no platform except investigating Hunter Biden’s laptop

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:09 PM

16. I agree

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:31 PM

25. OMGWTF...........

I completely agree...

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:40 PM

7. That's exactly what I have always thought

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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:47 PM

10. Me, too

It's why I thought Obama's "looking forward, not backward" reaction to Guantanamo torture was weak tea. We might not have a DeSantis at this point if he'd followed up.

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Response to MurrayDelph (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:27 PM

21. Yeah, I get that Obama was afraid to rock the boat much, being the first black president,

but it was frustrating to see him capitulate too much on too many issues.

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Response to Sky Jewels (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:34 PM

39. ++++++++++++++++++

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:41 PM

8. I think that is kind of a facile and shallow read

The pardon may have been ill considered (from a rule of law point of view) over the long run. But - the power of the presidency (and the expansion of that envelope) can hardly be attributed wholly, or even primarily, to that one (purported) misstep.

The fear of later indictment ... Not that big a factor.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:49 PM

44. +1

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 06:42 PM

56. Well said. A lot has happened in 50 years

Also, President Ford never imagined the current state of American politics

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Response to Raven123 (Reply #56)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 11:43 PM

61. Ford and countless others after him

didn't just "imagine" it, they were each instrumental in making a small piece of the current state of politics happen.............

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #61)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 12:35 PM

70. Hmm. Perhaps in the same sense

that each of of us is 'instrumental' (in a small way) for the creation of global warming. But that sort of glosses over the impact of some of the major players. Fossil fuels, chemical industry, deforestation might be slightly bigger actors? I don't think I'll ever be able to put Gerald Ford, or Bob Dole - on the same level or playing field with Newt Gingrich, Limbaugh, Cheney, Murdock, FOX, or more recently, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, Taylor-Greene, or Trump.

And, yes - I do think that Dole and Ford would find the current state of the GOP (and the actions and positions taken post election) - almost beyond belief. Not the same animal at all.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #70)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 06:28 PM

71. The list is endless..........NC

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 12:07 PM

69. Correct

This line of thinking MASSIVELY underestimates the moral and ethical corruption of the republican party.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:43 PM

9. Be really nice to have a synopsis of the content for us musk-averse DUers.

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Response to erronis (Reply #9)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:03 PM

34. Here ya go...

"Had President Ford not granted Nixon an almost immediate "full, free and absolute" pardon in 1974, later Presidents might not have felt so licensed to break the law." -Michael Beschloss

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Response to Shipwack (Reply #34)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:05 PM

37. Excellent. Thank you. I could/should research this myself - just want to encourage OP to add context

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Response to erronis (Reply #37)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 08:03 AM

62. Ford announced

“This is the end of a long national nightmare!” When in truth it was the beginning! Now we have a bought Congress, corrupt Supreme Court and Judges!

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #62)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 08:39 AM

63. By gawd you're right!

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:47 PM

11. So very

True!

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:48 PM

12. And at least some of us knew that

on the day of the pardon.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 04:14 PM

50. I was a bit out of college. I was angry that he was pardoned but wasn't learned enough to consider..

later ramifications!

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:50 PM

13. My husband makes that point all the time. n/t

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:05 PM

14. That may hold some truth,

but with a personality as Trump has, who totally thinks he's above the law, I don't think in his case it would matter.

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Response to Callalily (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:26 PM

20. Yeah, in his case especially. Nevertheless, it was and is emblematic of the failures of

our society's justice system relative to white collar crime generally, and it seems they have only gotten worse with time. There is no question that weak response to corrupt, immoral and even illegal acts only encourages more of the same by those who feel entitled to act in those manners.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:16 PM

19. Very true, but in 1974, the idea of President Donald Trump was anathema

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:29 PM

22. Bleacher Creature..........

Thanks for posting.....

I love Michael Beschloss....

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:31 PM

24. Dick "Shotgun" Cheney did more to expand the power

and protect the office of the executive than anybody in the 20th/21st century.

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Response to Cheezoholic (Reply #24)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 03:00 PM

45. The problem with "protecting the office"

is that in theory it is to protect the state. But when actually applied, it does just the opposite. By protecting a criminal office holder, it destroys the integrity of the office it is supposed to protect. One might call that a paradox.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:36 PM

26. If Ford hadn't agreed to the pardon, then Nixon wouldn't have resigned

We would have had 2.5 awful years of trying to get Nixon to leave the White House by any means possible.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #26)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:44 PM

28. Wasn't he the who pushed the idea of a unitary president?

That would certainly help democracy.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:52 PM

31. I don't remember that, but it may be true

However I DO remember why Nixon selected Gerald Ford as his VP after the criminal Spiro Agnew resigned. Nixon's motive was to nominate someone that Congress would approve quickly without much fuss. Nixon also saw Ford as someone who was unlikely to be seen as his replacement, if indeed Nixon were to be impeached. He wanted Ford simply because everyone thought he was "unpresidential," and not very ambitious.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #26)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 10:02 AM

64. Ford really thought he was saving us from that

But instead set up what we see today.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:47 PM

29. Been saying that since he did it

Ford was a stupid weak monster

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:48 PM

30. This is 100% true.

We have reaped the bitter harvest of that mistake for 50 years and counting.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:57 PM

32. 2019 article by Professors Kevin Kruse & Julian Zelizer on this.

The article was published during the first impeachment of the apricothellbeast, so it speaks to that point.

source-https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/04/democrats-impeach-trump-accountability-watergate-gerald-ford-richard-nixon-column/2762361002/

title-Watergate's lesson? If Democrats want to heal America, Trump must be held accountable

snip-"Accountability is essential to the long-term health of our democracy, more important than even healing the nation’s partisan divisions."

snip-"The United States learned this lesson 45 years ago. In August 1974, President Richard Nixon resigned from office in disgrace as soon as it became clear that the House would vote to impeach him for obstructing justice in the Watergate scandal and, moreover, that the Senate would likely vote to remove him from office. In a flash, Vice President Gerald Ford assumed the presidency."

snip-" On Sept. 8, 1974, Ford announced to the nation on television that he was issuing a “free, full and absolute pardon” to Nixon for any crimes he might have committed as president. Further legal investigations and prosecutions would paralyze the nation, Ford warned, as “ugly passions would again be roused, our people would again be polarized in their opinions, and the credibility of our free institutions of government would again be challenged at home and abroad.”


snip-"The nation has continued to pay for its failure to hold Nixon accountable. The divisions that Ford had hoped to paper over with his pardon have only continued to widen. Moreover, the general trend — toward a vague sense of “healing” instead of holding specific wrongdoers accountable — has only continued to erode the public’s faith in government over the ensuing decades. High-level officials in the Reagan administration clearly subverted the law in the Iran-Contra scandal but escaped any real punishment thanks to pardons from President George H.W. Bush. War crimes committed during the George W. Bush administration, meanwhile, were swept under the rug when the Obama White House refused to insist on accountability there."

more there, worth the time to read IMO

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:02 PM

33. Not punishing Nixon,

or the Business Plot conspirators, or the Confederate traitors, all contributed to that. Hopefully Trump and the other Jan. 6th plotters don't get added to the list of right wing evil that our country gives a pass to.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:03 PM

35. In this case, I disagree

Donald Trump is a sociopath. He doesn't know right from wrong like a normal human.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:03 PM

36. This wouldn't apply to Trump

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:15 PM

38. Let me fix that for you Michael.....later REPUBLICANS

might not have felt so licensed to break the law. There haven't been any Democrats to take this license.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #38)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 10:04 AM

65. Great point!

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:37 PM

40. I was 14 I think

And I was furious about Ford pardoning Nixon.
He was a crook!

And then came the biggest crook in the world! 45

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:40 PM

41. Absolutely

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:44 PM

42. A lot of us felt that way then, too

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:47 PM

43. Well, no shit.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 04:04 PM

48. Exactly!

I have always blamed Ford for all of this. And if Trump gets off, the next one will go all the way and we can kiss democracy goodbye.

Ford said in later life that the pardon was not only 'to spare the country', but also for 'friendship's sake'. He only found as time went on that Nixon didn't have any friends, including Ford. Nixon was incapable of friendship.

So it really was all for nothing.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 05:14 PM

52. We had a nice lunch with an old friend of ours, an attorney, and I made exactly that point. n/t.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 05:48 PM

54. The Ford Pardon helped elect Jimmy Carter

Ford was stupid to issue this pardon and paid the price

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 06:20 PM

55. said that the night Ford pardoned him and

have been saying ever since that the lesson Repugs learned was not that doing illegal stuff was bad, no - the lesson they learned was that you can get away with it.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:24 PM

57. Enough people were pissed off at Ford that he wasn't elected.

That was a different time....before The Christian Right, before Fux Ruse and before social media influences.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:16 PM

59. In my elementary school, teachers taught that in America "no one is above the law."

They stopped teaching that after Ford pardoned Nixon. And when I mentioned it to a current teacher, he just laughed and laughed.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 10:54 AM

66. Ford lost

because of the Nixon pardon.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2023, 11:40 AM

68. I've said this very thing on DU

A number of people said I was dead wrong to put any of the blame on Ford, but I stand by it.

Ford’s intent may have been different from those of Limbaugh, Gingrich, or Murdoch, but the effect was the same.

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