NATO considering deployment of up to 300,000 troops on border with Russia

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

NATO is discussing the need to strengthen the eastern borders with Russia by concentrating equipment and a military contingent of up to 300,000 soldiers, which should prevent Russia from expanding the war beyond Ukraine.

Source: PoliticoDetails: Politico writes that NATO intends to stop Russia if it decides to expand the war beyond Ukraine. Because of this, the Alliance is talking about strengthening its eastern borders and the need to send up to 300,000 troops to the border.

Such actions will require coordination and great efforts from the 30 NATO members to provide soldiers, training facilities, large quantities of weapons, equipment and ammunition.

However, the news outlet emphasizes that coordination may be challenging, as many allies are already concerned about their own insufficient ammunition stocks, which take time and money to replenish.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nato-considering-deployment-of-up-to-300-000-troops-on-border-with-russia/ar-AA18OoQ3

[captain queeg]

1. I see the US is deploying 2 aircraft carriers to the region.

They could probably destroy what’s left of the remaking Soviet airforce.

[NowsTheTime]

51. Ever see this? Cariers are very susecptable...

https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-tactical/stirling-engine-stealthy-swedish-submarines/

[republianmushroom]

2. Would be a good show of force

[roamer65]

3. Makes sense.

[maxsolomon]

49. How do you figure Poland is in Putin's sights?

1. It's a NATO nation. It would mean WW3.
2. The USSR took huge chunks of Poland after WW2 and put them in Ukraine & Belarus.



Moldova I buy, but not Poland.

[lark]

52. There was some leaked Russian docs I read about.

I've read that in several places, but don't remember where and haven't seen anything about it for a month or so. Since I don't have the documentation, I will remove the remark, although I do think Putin may be crazy enough to do this if he thought China would back the play.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

5. MIC has a massive orgasm over this War Talk, speculative stroking as it gets, it gets the job done.

[Hekate]

7. And?

[kairos12]

6. As a matter of perspective on how big this force would be.

In the 1970s and 80s the U.S. Army had around 6 or 7 Divisions in Europe. Far less today. Thanks to Chump.

300,000 troops would be equal to about 12 U.S. Combat Divisions.

Europe would have to pony up tens of thousands of troops. A troop of deployment of 300,000 U.S. Soldiers would take about 80 percent of our active army force.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

8. My guess is the number is among all NATO members' forces

How that would affect ours I don't know.

[Igel]

9. He redeployed about 70k.

Some out of Germany to other places in Europe--Poland, Italy. Poland, because Poland. Italy, because Syria and Black Sea.

The big draw-down was in the decade after the Berlin Wall fell, from > 300k to a bit more than 100k. We called it the "peace dividend." Without googling for 'net-based ersatz-confidence, I'm pretty sure T***p wasn't prez then. Maybe I'm being woozly?

[Celerity]

21. +1

[highplainsdem]

10. Good idea.

[moondust]

11. War Criminal Putin will say

NATO is aggressively preparing to invade Russia. State media robots will repeat it endlessly. One of his original excuses for his invasion was "NATO's eastward expansion."

[Celerity]

22. Enlargement of NATO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO

Map of NATO countries' chronological membership



NATO is a military alliance of twenty-eight European and two North American countries that constitutes a system of collective defence. The process of joining the alliance is governed by Article 10 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which allows for the invitation of "other European States" only and by subsequent agreements. Countries wishing to join must meet certain requirements and complete a multi-step process involving political dialog and military integration. The accession process is overseen by the North Atlantic Council, NATO's governing body. NATO was formed in 1949 with twelve founding members and has added new members eight times. The first additions were Greece and Turkey in 1952. In May 1955, West Germany joined NATO, which was one of the conditions agreed to as part of the end of the country's occupation by France, the United Kingdom, and the United States, prompting the Soviet Union to form their own collective security alliance (commonly called the Warsaw Pact) later that month. Following the end of the Franco regime, newly-democratic Spain chose to join NATO in 1982.

In 1990, the Soviet Union and NATO reached an agreement that a reunified Germany would join NATO under West Germany's existing membership. However, restrictions were agreed on the deployment of NATO troops in former East German territory. The dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 led many former Warsaw Pact and post-Soviet states to initiate discussions about joining NATO. Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic became NATO members in 1999, amid much debate within NATO itself and Russian opposition. NATO then formalized the process of joining the organization with "Membership Action Plans", which aided the accession of seven Central and Eastern Europe countries shortly before the 2004 Istanbul summit: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia. Two countries on the Adriatic Sea—Albania and Croatia—joined on 1 April 2009 before the 2009 Strasbourg–Kehl summit. The most recent member states to join NATO were Montenegro on 5 June 2017 and North Macedonia on 27 March 2020.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine prompted Finland and Sweden to apply for NATO membership in May 2022, and the ratification process for the two countries is in progress. Ukraine applied for NATO membership in September 2022 after Russia claimed to annex part of its territory. Two other states have formally informed NATO of their membership aspirations: Bosnia and Herzegovina and Georgia. Kosovo also aspires to join NATO. Joining the alliance is a debate topic in several other European countries outside the alliance, including Austria, Ireland, Malta, Moldova, and Serbia.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

35. Shhhh...this picture tells a thousand truths. Suppress it from American eyes!

[The Magistrate]

48. And What Might That 'Truth' Be, Sir?

There has been no aggressive expansion of NATO. Former colonies of Russia's land empire have requested security guarantees against the prospect of invasion and recolonization. They have every right to do this, and on current showing, would have been foolish not to do so: revanchist restoration of the old Czar's domains are established Russian policy.

Nor does NATO present any military threat to Russia. NATO certainly has the capacity to defeat Russia handily in a conventional war, and to obliterate it in a nuclear exchange. It is true enough the axiom of military planning is to assess capabilities rather than intentions, the former being concrete. But it is in intent alone that any danger lies, and there is no, repeat no, intention on NATO's part to conquer Russia militarily, and everyone, including Putin, knows this is so. There is no need to do so, Russia is collapsing on itself through its grotesque excesses of corruption and the resultant immiseration of its populace. No one wants to live like Russians do, even Russians do not desire to they are simply acclimated to it. This is the real 'threat' posed to Russia in Europe today: the civil order of Western Europe, flawed as it may be in spots, is so clearly superior to that prevailing in Russia the latter cannot possibly prevail in any peaceful competition.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

55. Russia has been invaded more than a few times, from the West. An infinite number of times

more than America.

Russians, from my understanding of the consequences of history, from Putin to peasant, view the NATO expansion as far less benign than the West sees it.

The truth is Russia will not invade any NATO nation, and NATO will not invade Russia…nukes on each side means Nyet in any language.

So proxy wars is what we have ever had and will ever get, absent total insanity.

Russia has lost all the proxy wars as the graphic vividly points out,

At some point an equilibrium will be reached. At which point let there be Peace in all of Europe, and points east.

[The Magistrate]

59. So What?

Seriously, Sir, so what?

Russia has been invaded. Russia has invaded quite as frequently. Germany has been invaded, France has, and Italy, and any other European state has been. So who cares? I've been struck a few times in my life, so I have license to punch the next guy I look at funny?

None of this makes the Russian campaign of genocide in Ukraine any less a vast crime. And make no mistake, the Kremlin's declared intent of erasing Ukraine as a political, social, and cultural entity, can be found almost word for word in the legal definition of the crime of genocide, and that crime is being pressed with wholesale atrocity.

Whether you realize it or not, you are quoting the Athenian emissary to Melos: The strong do as they please, and the weak suffer what they must. I doubt many here would apply the same principle in the same way should, for instance, the United States invade Venezuela to overthrow Maduro tomorrow. Though traditionally the place has been part of our sphere of influence for a couple of centuries, at least by our traditions, anyway.

It is possible Putin has come to realize portions of NATO cannot be peeled off. The idea that all Europe would have the grit to go to war over some small, far away place has a long pedigree among aggressive dictators who fancy themselves the hardest man in any room. It has worked before, and it was not, until recently, wild to speculate the little Baltic states might be again absorbed, by a calculated campaign of subversion pitched to the idea ethnic Russians are sorely persecuted in Estonia, or Latvia, for starters.

And of course, if one is to cite past harms as cause for current events, it ought to be taken into account that Russia has already, not quite a century ago, murdered by starvation millions of Ukrainians. You cannot possibly imagine this gives no steel to Ukraine's national resistance to Russian invasion, and so know the soldiers of Ukraine do not fight as proxies for leading parties engaged in conflict over their heads. They fight for the survival of their land. Why should they not be given assistance? Why should they be consigned to defeat by a genocidal power seeking to reconstitute its lost empire?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

60. Sorry to say there a more than a few strawmen in that hay pile.

And complete misunderstanding of the mindset of a nation not invaded multiple times.

Many nations invaded have similar understanding of war that never invade Americans so not seem to grasp at all. Was my point.

If can’t accept that, then there is no factual foundation on which to debate evenly.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

61. Wow!!!!

Gotta give it to ya, nice dodge.

[The Magistrate]

64. 'Factoid' Is An Odd Word, Sir

People take it to mean an unimportant fact, but what it properly denotes is a fact snatched out of context, often in a way which denatures any meaning it might have. 'Russia's been invaded often from the west' is a factoid.

Russia has been invaded twice from the west. It has been invaded from the north, from the south and from the east. The latter actually carried the place, and held it under roughshod hooves long enough that even once they were overthrown, European political discourse well into the last century spoke of the 'oriental' nature of Russia and Russians without batting an eye.

This does not lead ineluctably to 'NATO therefor threatens Russia'. What we have been accustomed to call 'Russia' has been from its inception a land empire assembled under Moscow. It was common by late Czarist days to refer to the place as 'the prison of the peoples'. The lands whose entry of NATO constitute its 'threatening expansion eastwards' are mostly places which had craved independence under the Czars and won it in the chaos of the Russian Civil War. Consolidation of Soviet victory eventually brought them all back under Moscow, and subjugated fresh but long sought lands to its rule as well.

Relations between colonized and colonizer will always be at bottom contemptuous hostility. The first thing any newly independent colony will do is secure its independence by armed force; there is nothing a colonial enterprise hates more than suffering such behavior by its former subjects. This is what is being passed off as 'Russia feels threatened because it's been invaded from the West' in some quarters.

[The Magistrate]

62. That's Beneath You, Sir

"I should like to take you seriously, but that would affront your intelligence."

[Xolodno]

12. Well...so much for Single Payer health care.

Probably get the retirement age raised again. And to keep the steady flow of volunteers to the armed forces, make sure income inequality remains high.

More military requires more money that gets diverted.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

14. Ummm, you do know that this is from all NATO members don't you?

This isn't just US forces.

[leftstreet]

30. +1

[sarisataka]

13. This is what I suggested

January of last year. It might have been more effective than stating we would not consider military action.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

15. WTF? I played every Fallout game there is, it's not a pretty land. Don't go there

Endless war is not something we need, Russia is dying to pull the nuke trigger

[MarineCombatEngineer]

16. So are you suggesting that NATO leaves it's eastern flank exposed?

Wouldn't that tempt Putin to try to take over the Baltic states?

Appeasement has never worked with tyrants, I think this is a prudent move on NATO's part.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

17. JFC, Russia already said they could send nuke tipped missiles to Belarus, and this is the answer

Death wish, Putin is dying, he would like nothing better than to turn Europe into a glass parking lot, that sound good?

[LudwigPastorius]

19. They already have nuke-capable hypersonic missiles in Kaliningrad that can hit the major capitols...

of Europe in 4 minutes or less.

The Russians don't understand anything but force. Deploying troops defensively to the border is a good idea.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

20. Tactical nukes, battlefield nukes, small yields, enough to take out concentrations of troops

Say, 100-300 thousand or so, that's what I'm talking about, fits right in with their war plans to defend the motherland, and NATO is walking right into that scenario

[Alexander Of Assyria]

24. Diabolical, hey!? A pathway to use nukes, but only the tiny ones.... Wildly speculative.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

27. Hey how is that Doomsday Clock doing? Never hear about that Doomsday Clock anymore, right?

[sarisataka]

33. In January it was moved

Forward to 90 seconds, the closest it ever has been to midnight.

What would you advise Biden to do if not send troops to NATO?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

34. If NATO were to precipitously move such a massive amount of troops, and their war machines,

might as well move Doomsday Clock to midnight…and tuck and cover!!

Not even in their wildest fantasies could the nuclear weapon fans in the nuclear powers of the west, east and everyone stuck in the middle of this madness of a few have imagined such an opportunity to finally use the damn things!

Move mass amounts of troops, the rest is inevitable…

No fkon thanks.

[sarisataka]

36. So we know what not to do

I'm still waiting for another option...

[MarineCombatEngineer]

37. Who said anything about moving massive troops?

It would be a gradual buildup to deter Putin from trying to reconstitute the old Soviet Union.

You've yet to offer an alternative to prevent Putin from his ambitions.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

38. We can fund NATO like we have been, just tell em our boys will sit this one out

[MarineCombatEngineer]

41. So fund NATO,

but tell them they're on their own if Putin decides to roll the dice and go for it?

Wow, that's a winning strategy.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

43. The only way to win, is not to play the game

[sarisataka]

42. How is that different?

It would be quite possible for European NATO to supply 100k+ troops.

Russia has the same options with or without US troops. Also the US retains its treaty obligations if Russia attacks anyway.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

44. China comes in, brokers peace deal, they will rebuild Ukraine in exchange for exclusive rights

To oil, gas reserves, construction contracts and they get Russia to stop fighting for secret deals there

China wins

the west is left holding their dicks after spending hundreds of billions

China wins again

[sarisataka]

45. If I understand you correctly

Our course of action should be abandon our European allies and sell out Ukraine to China and Russia?

That's a unique plan.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

46. Not quite, China sells it's peace plan to Ukraine and Russia saves face, we are left out, China wins

[sarisataka]

47. I often have trouble

Reading past the first point of the Chinese proposal "Respect international sovereignty". I start laughing at the hypocrisy.

If you do get through it, yes China would be the big winner. It essentially says the west should get out and let China in.

China would be the big winner followed by Russia.Ukraine would get at best pre war status quo and as you note the west would just be left holding an empty bag

[MarineCombatEngineer]

53. Sooo...........appeasement.

Good plan.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

54. So what happens when Ukraine, rightly so, tells China and Russia to fuck off?

So your plan is for the US/NATO and the European countries to abandon Ukraine?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

56. Cant let China win! No to Peace! Must have War! Seems to be the Western response.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

63. We have always been at war with Eastasia

[MarineCombatEngineer]

28. So you would leave NATO's eastern flank exposed.

Got it.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

29. It's been almost 80 years, Europe is itching for another WW? I guess they're overdue...

Funny thing is we coerced Ukraine to give up their thousands of nukes in 1994, for a slip of paper saying Russia would never attack them!

See Budapest Memorandum

From 3rd largest nuclear power in the world to begging for scraps from NATO, poor Ukraine, you trusted

[MarineCombatEngineer]

32. I'm well aware of what happened in 94,

I'm well aware that Putin invaded Ukraine in 14 and again in 22, the point is that not strenthening NATO's eastern flank invites Putin to repeat what he is doing in Ukraine.

Putin has visions of reconstituting the Soviet Union and not taking prudent steps to deter him is not a good strategy.

You never appease a tyrant, it just doesn't end well.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

39. You mean the mighty Russian juggernaut that couldn't move 40 mi to Kiev is gonna overrun Europe?

Nah, not buying it

Pushing Russia and China together as allies, that is what's happening, horrible move, decades of war?

Yeah, like I said, buy Raytheon

[MarineCombatEngineer]

40. I really couldn't care less it you're buying it or not.

One more time, leaving NATO's eastern flank exposed invites Putin to try what he's trying to do in Ukraine.
Appeasing a tyrant never works out well and I, for one, am in favor of deterrence.

[The Magistrate]

50. The Man's Reach Exceeds His Grasp, Sir

Doesn't stop him trying, or running his mouth in hope wolf tickets can cover his bluff....

[Alexander Of Assyria]

57. Don't forget Russia could outlflank the Western Navy by stealthy sending out its only carrier...

provided they have enough diesel to power the old Admiral!

Or send Chinese supplied giant white spy balloons to check out…something.

[former9thward]

18. Idiotic.

No one can have 300,000 troops sitting somewhere indefinably. Who is going to pay or it? Certainly not the Europeans who consistently refuse to pay their fair share of their budget for military expenses.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

23. Exactly...folks don't seem to be aware of what a mass movement and deployment his would be...

The article is nuclear grade war mongering, foaming at the mouth.

Or they are aware and want war, any war, the bigger the better!

Europe hasn’t had to pay for their so called fair share because American military is delighted to use its unlimited funds in any way possible.

Same in many areas of the world, America happy to flex its trillion dollars a year war machine, for free!

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

25. Time to buy Raytheon stock, Putin will draw arms to Europe and Xi will attack Taiwan, perfect

[Alexander Of Assyria]

26. No, yes, and no.

[niyad]

31. Somebody please finish him already!

[sarcasmo]

58. "Considering" is a start.