Barack Obama: Here's an example of a smart policy that gets rid of unnecessary college degree

[Celerity]

requirements and reduces barriers to good paying jobs. I hope other states follow suit!

Link to tweet

Stop requiring college degrees for jobs that don’t need them

Employers are finally tearing down the “paper ceiling” in hiring.

https://www.vox.com/policy/23628627/degree-inflation-college-bacheors-stars-labor-worker-paper-ceiling

When President Joe Biden recently touted the hundreds of billions of dollars invested into American manufacturing in the last two years, he included a talking point that previous Democratic presidents might not have bragged about. New factories in Ohio, he said, could offer thousands of “jobs paying $130,000 a year, and many don’t require a college degree.”

When Biden highlighted those non-college jobs at the State of the Union, it was just three weeks after Pennsylvania’s new Democratic governor Josh Shapiro eliminated the requirement of a four-year college degree for the bulk of jobs in Pennsylvania state’s government, two months after Utah’s Republican governor Spencer Cox did the same, and nearly one year after Maryland’s Republican governor Larry Hogan set off the trend. Since the president’s State of the Union, Alaska’s Republican governor Mike Dunleavy has also followed suit.

Maryland’s newly elected Democratic governor, Wes Moore, plans to continue opening up state jobs to non-college-educated workers, confirmed his spokesperson.

For liberal politicians like Moore, Shapiro, and Biden, promoting policies to help the more than 70 million American workers who never graduated from college is rooted partly in politics, as Democrats have struggled recently to earn support from non-college-educated voters, especially men. After decades of prioritizing college attendance, the Democratic Party has been scrambling to figure out how to change the widespread perception that its leaders are out of touch with the struggles of average people.

snip

[JI7]

1. Will read more later . But could this also help in reducing cost of higher education ?

We need to make changes for sure for the times we live in. We need an updating of rules/regulations in many areas.

There is so much unnecessary bs.

[Ms. Toad]

3. In the short run, it will likely make higher education more expensive.

There are certain fixed costs for college - both facilility and people (courses which have to be offered, administative roles which have to be filled) regardless of how many students there are. If there are fewer students the per-capita costs go up. (And quality goes down because cuts which really can't afford to be made will be made anyway.)

Long term - they might stabilize at around the current level after a few colleges/universities close. That also means college will be less convenient for some as the local college/universities close.

[ggma]

2. I went to a Technical High School and Community College.

My high school prepared you to step off the stage with your diploma and straight into an entry level job. Community college, same.

When did "trade school" become obsolete? Whatever happened to OJT? (On the job training).

gg

[BumRushDaShow]

4. "When did "trade school" become obsolete?"

When a bunch of grifters destroyed the system with fake and otherwise fraudulent "technical schools". For example -

$3.9 billion in debt is canceled for former students of ITT Tech

August 16, 2022 1:03 PM ET

By The Associated Press



WASHINGTON — Students who used federal loans to attend ITT Technical Institute as far back as 2005 will automatically get that debt canceled after authorities found "widespread and pervasive misrepresentations" at the defunct for-profit college chain, the Biden administration announced Tuesday.

The action will cancel $3.9 billion in federal student debt for 208,000 borrowers, the Education Department said. The debt is being forgiven using a federal rule known as borrower defense, which is meant to protect students from colleges that make false advertising claims or otherwise commit fraud.

"The evidence shows that for years, ITT's leaders intentionally misled students about the quality of their programs in order to profit off federal student loan programs, with no regard for the hardship this would cause," Education Secretary Miguel Cardona said.

It adds to the administration's growing list of piecemeal student debt cancellations — a similar action in June promised to erase $5.8 billion in debt related to Corinthian Colleges — but it provided no answers on broader student debt cancellation.

(snip)

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/16/1117715707/itt-tech-student-loan-debt-canceled

Others - https://www.businessinsider.com/for-profit-colleges-alleged-fraud-student-loans-debt-cancelation-education-2021-3

This is where I think the Community Colleges, with proper funding, can step in to create some good vocational programs because although there is so much focus on "computers" and "AI" replacing "people", "AI" is NOT going to fix a leak in a water riser pipe in a house or carry out asbestos abatement in old piece of junk schools.

[ggma]

5. Thank you BRDS!

It was kind of a rhetorical question, but that was a great and interesting answer. ITT tech was big here in Omaha, but it always felt "shysty" to me (meaning crooked). I hate that one of my daughters attended. She did finally pay off her loans a couple of years ago. Never worked in her field of training. Commercial Art.

gg

[BumRushDaShow]

6. You are welcome!

It was them, "University of Phoenix", and a bunch of others who advertised heavily on TV to train people in all kinds of "tech" jobs including "electronics" and eventually got decertified and closed, leaving so many in the lurch.

[Johnny2X2X]

10. I worked for ITT for a short time in the early 90s

I was in their job placement office making calls to get recent grads interviews. I knew it was s scam from day 1. I was in a rom with the recruiters who were selling kids and their families on ITT, it was high pressure sales that was absolutely brutal. I worked for their recent CAD grads department and only like 1 of their first 2 CAD graduating classes actually had a job in the field after 12 months.

The were preying on poor families, looking for kids whose parents never went to college so they wouldn't know what a real college was supposed to be like. They guilted these families into taking loans out, it was so slick and so ruthless.

[RSherman]

7. To be fair,

I have been hearing/reading stories about this. From my understanding, employers used to get a ton of applicants. Requiring a degree was one way to weed out applicants. Now that there is a labor shortage, employers almost have to get rid of the college degree requirement.

I had a guy from GE guest speak in my classes one day. They hire kids from 2 year tech schools. Then they provide the rest of the training so that the young people have GE's needed skills. The kids start at $50-60K. Great model! I went to college for 5 years to teach and started at 15K!

[GregariousGroundhog]

9. Even without a labor shortage, finding qualified people can be somewhat tricky

Websites like LinkedIn and Monster make it easy for anyone to apply for a job with a few clicks of a button. A company can post a job and end up getting dozens or hundreds of applications, many (most?) of whom aren't even remotely qualified for the role.

A lot of hiring managers will consider people with 60% or 80% of the skillset they need, but identifying immediate contributors and readily trainable people from people who probably shouldn't have applied can be somewhat frustrating experience for HR recruiters. That said, I also have to disclaim that my view is biased towards an IT perspective.

[intheflow]

8. I have two advanced degrees and still only make a little over $50k.

And I'm considered well-paid in my profession! College itself is a scam on many, many levels, not the least of which is it doesn't guarantee you a high wage because standing at a machine all day can still get you $130,000/year whereas using your brain and helping the public is obviously work any old idiot can do. Yet of course, the only way to get my job is to have an advanced degree, so... pay inequity rules the day.

[Deminpenn]

11. At least in PA, applicants still have to demonstrate

skills and experience before being hired. For ex, if you'd started in retail right out of high school and rose to a supervisory or manager position, that experience, even if not directly related to the job for which you are applying would be relevent. I doubt anyone will be walking off their high school graduation stage and into a state job.

Also, just because applicants don't need a college degree doesn't mean applicants who have one won't still have a hiring advantage.

[TheRealNorth]

12. Why would anyone get a teaching degree?

Plus, it will likely result in lower wages too.

[Celerity]

13. People would get teaching degrees because they want to teach.

As for lower wages, if the firms try to pay shit wages, people will gravitate to ones that pay better for the same work.

Wages are a two-way street, that is a fundamental organising principle of labour unions and collective bargaining, for instance.