Six year old who shot teacher in Newport News Virginia update:

[GreenWave]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/21/us/abigail-zwerner-teacher-shooting-newport-news-virginia-nbc/index.html

The article mentioned the student slammed the teacher's cell phone and broke it, creating a one day suspension. He came back the very next day after the suspension armed with a gun, abandoned by parents and shot the teacher who deflected the momentum of the would be fatal shot. School authorities were alerted three times that he had a gun.

This 6 year old also, as reported on the local news, has a history of constantly cursing, taking off his belt and threatening to beat students with it. He also starting choking a teacher and nearly left her unconscious.

The Newport News prosecutor has declined to charge the youngster with anything claiming he would not understand the charges. No word if the parents will be charged.

My thoughts follow:
So his rap sheet should have warranted zero tolerance long before the shooting. He has an inability to respect the well being of others and therefore should not be allowed in school for the safety of everybody there. Only remote viewing should be allowed and when he goes bonkers and lashes out at that not even that if he remotely disrupted class again.

[LakeArenal]

1. The parents need some parenting skills at the least.

Who modeled removing a belt and hitting othered with it?

[Sanity Claws]

7. That's what I thought too

That is what he has seen at home.

[2naSalit]

32. +1

And the swearing and attacking.

[CharleyDog]

66. exactly. Six years old, and threatening with a belt? Choking?

There's going to be family therapy and psychologists involved now? Right?

[Samrob]

68. Just who are these parents who have not been charged with anything? nt

[Marthe48]

2. He sounds like an unhinged little kid

Who needs help in a special setting.

[wnylib]

63. Exactly. He needs to be removed from his home and

placed in foster care with a family that is well trained and experienced at handling very young violent children, preferably a family where one parent is a child psychologist.

A 6 year old who behaves like this child does has been exposed to violence for a long time, probably since birth, both as witness and as recipient. His behavior indicates that his parents are incompetent. He needs an environment that models normal behavior for him and that can deal with the psychogical damage from his parents' home.

[LonePirate]

3. His parents need to be charged/arrested. The child is not the only guilty party here.

Yes, everything about this entire situation is awful; but the parents are culpable here.

[Sneederbunk]

11. The parents need to be identified.

And will, when teacher brings civil suit.

[treestar]

14. maybe they cannot control him either

kids can be born with characteristics that normal parents cannot handle.

[SoCalDavidS]

17. Then They Should Not Send Him To School Or Other Public Places

But I suspect, the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, and they couldn't care less what trouble he causes.

[exboyfil]

22. Then they sure shouldn't have a gun that he can access

I don't understand why the mother hasn't already been charged.

[vanlassie]

29. The mother? I read the article. No mention

of a single mother. Do you have other details?

[exboyfil]

37. The gun is registered to her

Read in a different source. Her gun - her responsibility unless she can show another adult actually had control of the gun and failed to secure it.

I think they are a married couple so the husband can be culpable as well, but you start with who the gun belongs to.

[Crunchy Frog]

45. And the parents of such children leave guns lying around loose?

[RobinA]

48. Such Children

come from parents who are liable to leave guns lying around.

There's no help for this kid, whose fault this is NOT. There just isn't. It's too late. He's obviously, given his repertoire of violent acts, been seriously abused in his short life. And so have whatever siblings he may have.

[vanlassie]

55. Agree, sadly. Neglected and that's abuse.

The undoubted neglect in the first three years sealed his fate.

[Warpy]

73. Six is not too late

if the problem is genetic or associated with another personality disorder. Inpatient treatment of these kids can work well enough that they won't be incarcerated all their lives, they need to be taught what to do with overwhelming rage.

The parents were ignorant almost beyond belief. Six year old kids don't do this shit unless something is very, very wrong, and having a gun around such a kid is just stunningly stupid.

[treestar]

64. ok good point

parents can be in denial, too.

[underpants]

4. He sounds truly like a threat.

He choked a teacher? Wow.

[HuskyOffset]

41. That jumped out at me as well

How the hell does a *six year old* choke an adult?!?

[Shipwack]

65. Maybe the adult was sitting on the floor with the kids?

We did that often when I went to kindergarten... Of course, you had to sweep the dinosaur droppings aside.

On a more serious note, it probably didn't end quickly because the teacher was more afraid of hurting the child while defending themselves than they were afraid of being injured.

This whole thing is so tragic and sad... I hope the child gets the help he needs, but i somehow doubt it'll play out that way. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[LeftinOH]

5. Someone is going to get hurt - or killed. There needs to be state

intervention with the family, and the kid removed from public school. Acting like this at 6 years old is seriously abnormal.

[Scrivener7]

28. Someone was already shot in the face.

[Biophilic]

6. My first thoughts were where did he learn to do those things? nt

[haele]

31. Anywhere. Family members, Neighbors. Unsupervised Media.

If the kid is already overly aggressive or borderline psychopathic, s/he can easily remember violent or threatening scenes from an otherwise appropriate show for an older sibling, the evening news, or a jerk/jackass jump-scare type YouTube short s/he came across and act those scenes out when uncontrollably enraged.
We've experienced this in our family, an unusually aggressive child who had outbursts of anger and defiance even before she was a toddler. She also sneak/stole and hid items that caught her attention since she could walk. She never experienced discipline that was in anger or violence, and her parents were always careful to be attentive, calm and friendly around her and her siblings.

The only option is to seek professional help for such a child, because there's no evidence or idea where such rage, defiance, or aggression is coming from.

Sometimes, the problem really is something in the wiring of the kid.

Haele

[Biophilic]

58. Maybe, but I would certainly look at the so called authority figures in his own home.

How kids treat others is more often the case than truly ‘bad seeds’.

[Mr.Bill]

50. If they say he used to take off his belt

and threaten to hit others with it, I'd be willing to bet his dad did that to him.

[Biophilic]

54. Yes, exactly what I was thinking myself.

He’d learned that behavior at home and he was taking his anger out on people he saw as ‘safer’ than those who ‘taught’ him.

[Quakerfriend]

8. He clearly needs help. My questions are:

What is at the root of his behavioral problems?
- Upbringing, mental illness??

Where did he get the loaded gun?
Who is it registered to?

[exboyfil]

23. Mom's gun

She already should be charged. Unless you can find another adult who broke into a safe and gave the boy the gun.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. I hope everyone gets the help they need.

[Irish_Dem]

10. This child should not be mainstreamed in regular school.

He needs to be in a residential treatment center with strict lock down and well trained staff and teachers.
Staff who can take down this child safely in seconds, no one getting hurt.

[thucythucy]

15. Given what seems to be negligence on the part of the school system--

I'm referring to the warnings about the gun that were supposedly ignored--I'm wondering what else is happening here.

So many questions remain unanswered, or at least remain unavailable to the public, among them:

where did he learn this behavior?

where did he get the gun?

how long has all this been going on?

what treatment options have been offered to this child and his family?

Given the lack of information--and I understand that there are of course issues of confidentiality--I wonder about some form of brain disease or closed head injury that would bring on this sort of behavior. And if we're talking closed head injury--how did that happen, and is this child still at risk, and who else might be vulnerable?

This is such an extreme case one would hope every resource will be brought to bear on helping whoever needs to be helped.

[Irish_Dem]

27. Yep the school totally dropped the ball in this case.

And caused great risk to staff and students.
And to the 6 y/o as well.

Yes there are many questions to be answered.

I seriously doubt this is a recent situation, the child acting out this way.
So where are the parents, grandparents, other relatives?
Neighbors, friends?

Did anyone report the family to social services?
Did teachers report, they are mandated reporters in most states.

Was there an investigation? Are there other children in the home at risk?
If this child has siblings, they are in danger with him in the home.

Typically in this kind of case the authorities tell the parents, either the 6 yr old
is removed from the home, or all the kids are removed.

Perhaps other family members are perpetrators as well.

When you get a child this young who is homicidal it is always heart breaking.
And there are children as young as 3 who are truly suicidal and have to be on
24 watch. Or homicidal 6 yr olds like this child.

My daughter now works inpatient pediatric psych and yes, kids are still coming in
at such young ages, seriously disturbed.

Each case is different. There has to be a good psych work up, including family and medical history.
There could be physical problems, but it has to be more than that. Most children with grade three concussions
don't try to kill their teachers. This child could be psychotic or bipolar. Family history would shed light.
I would also ask for a drug screen for this child.

Even still, the child had to have access to the gun. Know how to aim and shoot it.
Had to learn that a belt can be a weapon to hit others.

In my experience with this kind of severe pathology, there is usually more than one causal factor.
Perhaps physical, neurological or psychosis, along with a problematic family.
So innate problems along with learned behavior.

[Ms. Toad]

43. Agreed. The child either learned from the parents

or with their acquiescence. In either case social services should have been involved.

Note: I would not say this about older children, who have more independent access to learning that physical violence is the way to get your way, and more specifically that a belt can be used as a weapon, how to use a gun, and how to get access to a gun. but at 6, that advanced knowledge had to have come from or with the acquiescence of the parents.

[Irish_Dem]

53. Yes exactly.

When you are evaluating a child, of course the age of the child is important.

For example when you get a young child acting out sexually, where does that come from?
Is the child being abused, or living in a highly sexualized household with adults acting
out in front of the child. Or porn on the TV all the time, etc. Could the source be babysitters or
other family members.

One exception could be psychotic or bipolar children who can just act out on their own.

When I was doing these kind of evaluations, I liked using diagnostic drawings with young children.
Asked them to start making drawings of the friends and family, etc.
You can learn a lot that way. Same with puppets and dolls.

But yes the older the child the more independent they are and can learn behavior from a variety of sources.
But they are more verbal and can tell you what is going on.

When you do these kind of assessments, it requires a great deal of training but also an ability to be
a good detective, and a desire to find the truth to help the patient. And to keep everyone safe.

[Ms. Toad]

69. I was a peer advocate at a rape crisis center for a decade.

A child sexually abused by another young child always raised red flags. Where did the child learn the abusive behavior - it doesn't pop up out of thin air.

[Irish_Dem]

72. Yes.

That is usually the case.

In some rare cases a psychotic or bi-p child might be spontaneous.
But that is rare.

Often the police, social services, the courts, guardian ad litem, mental health experts all have to get involved to help the child, children, the family. And take appropriate action against the abuser.

I give you credit for working in a crisis rape center.
That is certainly not an easy job.

[LisaM]

57. The school shouldn't be put in this position, period.

If it was a charter school or a private school, they wouldn't have to deal with him.

Public schools are put in this position all the time. They aren't mental health facilities. They aren't law enforcement facilities. They are schools and they are there to educate kids. Teachers are not equipped to deal with this, nor should they have to. I wouldn't be a teacher these days. It would be the equivalent of being a punching bag

[Sky Jewels]

12. This is a kid who needs to be institutionalized in a mental care facility if ever there was one.

He is murderously violent at age six. Clearly, there is something very, very wrong there that needs long-term addressing by trained professionals.

[ShazzieB]

38. He obviously meets the criteria of being "a danger to himself or others."

Especially others, in this case!

[Sky Jewels]

62. Definitely!

It couldn't be more clear.

[treestar]

13. psychopath in the making?

serious intervention needed.

[maxsolomon]

18. It's likely he already is one.

I get the impression sociopathy or psychopathy is how you're born.

[steelyboo]

30. Here's how I always remember the difference

Psychopaths are born that way, Sociopaths are made that way

[MadameButterfly]

56. Ted Kazinsky's mom tells the story of

when he was a young boy hospitalized and not given access to his mother. She said he was never the same since.
There are stories of young Donald Trump losing the attention of his mother while she was ill for a protracted time, and left in the care of his tyrranical father.

I do think things happen to make kids snap. I don't know if you can undo it.

[Paladin]

20. "...in the making"?

What's bringing a pistol to school and gunning down a teacher? On-the-job training?

Serious intervention needed, for sure.

[SheltieLover]

16. Multisystemic therapy is the only evidence based treatment for kids like this

But it is home based, very intensive & requires a huge commitment on the part of parents/caregivers.

Would the parents be willing? Is our system willing to pay for such intensive services? (Highly doubtful!)

Think of a mobile hanging over a baby's crib. When one part is touched, the entire mobile shifts & moves...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisystemic_therapy

Imho, ALL bullies & juvenile offenders should be court ordered to undergo this family therapy to successful completion.

Without successful completion of such therapy, prognosis is very poor long-term. Most juveniles who exhibit such anti-social behavior go on to develop full blown anti-social personality disorder, and the prisons are filled with such people.

I hope this kid gets the help he desperately needs, and that which society desperately needs such kids to undergo!

[exboyfil]

24. They can't even keep track of their own gun

So anything over just watching the kid is probably too much to expect.

[SheltieLover]

40. No doubt.

Many of them don't even watch their kids, or guns.

When my grandson moved to NC, then TN with me, I was furious I had to physically take him to dr for school excuse for each day he missed.

I explained we are orig from Chicago burbs & parent phone call is alwaus accepted for brief absences. When I questioned why a doctor note is required for very infrequent absences, both school districtsvhad the same answer:

"Many people here are too lazy to send their kids to school."

Poor kids.

[ZonkerHarris]

19. The negligence is on the part of the parents. They should be charged.

[CanonRay]

21. I went to school with a kid like this, named Charlie

He was certifiably nuts, at age 7 he sounded like a hardened gang member. The cops caught him trying to blow up an oil storage tank when he was 8, and he got put in reform school (or so we heard). He had climbed to the top of the thing and was lighting matches. Never saw him again. This was in Chicago.

[SheltieLover]

42. Yikes!

Did you ever google his name to see what he's been arrested for over the years?

[dsc]

25. The school deserves a ton of blame here

but that said, we do have the IDEA act which can wind up requiring schools to let a child like that say in school. I had one in high school who would cuss me and other teachers out and it was all but impossible to have consequences for that behavior. We were able to send him to the alternative school after he got in a fight. I was very relieved to see him go. I was close to using sick leave to avoid him for the time I had left with him as I just couldn't deal. It was a rough class already and he just made it impossible.

[Scrivener7]

26. This child has either a serious mental illness or he is being abused. Either way,

he needs to be closely observed somewhere for a while.

[scarletlib]

33. I will be honest. He seems to be a psychopath.

Major intervention is needed to keep this child from being a serial killer or mass shooter.

[Sogo]

34. There can be no doubt this child is being abused at home.

Child Protection Services needs to be contacted, and the parents investigated.

[Cha]

35. The 6 year old understands Guns and

assholery apparently learned from his parents.

[LisaM]

36. Stop mainstreaming these kids.

School is not the place to address these issues. Teachers and other students should never have to deal with this.

Our system is messed up.

[mn9driver]

39. The actions of the child and the actions of the school district

are not connected in any logical or reasonable way. This case makes absolutely no sense; there is important information that is not being included in this story. I don’t know what it is, or why it isn’t included, but there is a ten mile wide information hole here.

[Crunchy Frog]

44. He obviously needs help, and needs to be in a school or facility

that can accommodate his needs and challenges.

If the parents are leaving guns lying around unsupervised, I would bet that they have a lot to do with his issues. They should certainly be prosecuted over the gun, and should probably lose custody. Putting the focus on punishing a six year old, rather than attempting to help him is out of line IMO.

[Ray Bruns]

46. I knew a kid like this in grade school. It's some kind of rage disorder.

He didn’t learn it. It’s a mental disease.

[ratchiweenie]

52. I agree it is some form of mental illness. Unless this child is institutionalized and

receives years of deep therapy, it is already too late for him. Like otheres, I assume he's beem brutalized at home. Which came first, the rage or the brutality. The brutality or the rage. Doesn't matter. He needs serious help. He cannot be allowed to stay in that home or school.

[SCantiGOP]

47. For centuries,

7 has been identified as the Age of Reason.
I don’t see how anyone can conceive of holding a 6 year old as responsible for their actions. There should be attention on the adults who were actually the responsible parties.

[IbogaProject]

61. But juvenile adjudication could help

That way he can be under supervision at least until 18. I'd hope he's declared insane and becomes a ward of the state. Hopefully he can be rehabilitated but this sounds extreme. The parents deserve consequences and financial liability over the gun.

[Dan]

49. Have the authorities considered

That he hasn’t been abandoned, but may have already killed his parents and buried their bodies?

[cksmithy]

51. Sometimes, school administrators

just don't believe it is as bad as teachers tell them. Around 2001, a friend who taught 1st grade, was trying to get help for a student with behavior problems. She had talked to the administration multiple times. The student was throwing chairs, pushing desks over and constantly doing things that could hurt himself and others. One day, as the vice principal was returning to his office from another classroom, he heard noise, stopped, peaked into the room, saw a chair in the air, came in and removed the student from the class. She didn't know where he was transferred to, but she did get an apology. She had also previously received Teacher of the Year from the district, was in her fifties, was well known and respected. The vp just couldn't believe a little tiny blond haired boy could physically throw a chair, until he saw it for himself.

[GreenWave]

59. I thank all of you for your comments.

As a former Discipline Head, I often had to intervene when students, parents got unruly. My thoughts are with the teacher who got shot near her heart, led the other students out of the room to safety (previous story said another faculty member restrained the six year old) and with her lungs collapsing she took what she thought was her dying final steps to approach the administration where she collapsed.

I cannot stop crying about this. She is the quintessential teacher of the year. Who has the presence of mind to lead students to safety while her own life force is slipping away?

I will be back tomorrow as I need some time.

[TeamProg]

60. Meet your 2053 freshman Republican U.S. Senator from Virgina !! nt

[moniss]

67. This is like

watching a train wreck in slow motion. Years from now an event involving this child is likely to be followed by comments from "officials" saying things like "nobody could have known", "our hands were tied" etc.

[The Jungle 1]

70. In Pa a child this age would be eligible for intensive mental health intervention.

It would have been available before the situation got this bad. Full evaluation and a treatment plan set up by professionals. This plan can include full time one on one shadowing in school. No cost to parents! It is well known that if we intervene early this behavior can be changed and it is way cheaper and easier to do it early. It is in fact life altering and it works.

The article states that there was a treatment plan but a parent had to shadow the child. The article also states the child has an “acute disability”.

If this child got the gun at home that is the parents fault! However fixing his mental health issues is probably way over their heads. It is for most people. The school would be to blame if there is a history of this behavior and no treatment plan was set up. There was a treatment plan.


Understand prison is way more expensive than treatment.

[phylny]

71. If I am recalling the information correctly,

the child’s behavior plan/IEP or 504 plan stipulated that the parents had to be in attendance with him at school. This day, they were not.

I used to work as a speech-language pathologist in public schools, and it is very difficult for 1) parents to agree to an alternative placement for their child and 2) for the district to justify/agree to pay for it. Many times, they wait until it’s too late for an alternative placement for such a behavioral problem.

I don’t agree that this child was necessarily abused. Sure, his mother/father left the gun unsecured and the school was negligent that day and seemingly other days as well, but I’ve worked with children who had severe behavioral issues from a young age who have exhibited violent behavior. Hell, our own granddaughter is 19 months and she has never been stuck in her life but her go-to is to smack you in the face when she’s upset and she laughs when she’s disciplined. This is a new experience for me.