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Ferrets are Cool
(22,957 posts)
Wounded Bear
(64,324 posts)
scarletlib
(3,568 posts)However, parents have always had that right. A parent can always tell a teacher if there is a book they don’t want their child to read.
I can guarantee nearly 100% of all teachers would make a different choice for that child.
Response to edisdead (Reply #5)
scarletlib This message was self-deleted by its author.
scarletlib
(3,568 posts)
Johnny2X2X
(24,207 posts)Vouchers absolutely kill public schools, but school of choice contributes too and is really a hard issue to discuss.
In my city, the city's public high schools were a little rough, but fine when I was growing up in the 80s. School of choice shuttered all but 2 of them plus one other one that is for gifted students. So what you now have is city chools that are all filled with poor students whose parents can't afford to drive them to a better school, or whose parents just don't really care all that much about the quality of their schools. The parents who have a little more money drive their kids to suburban schools. So those public schools no longer have as many good students to influence the students from less fortunate situations. They've become unsafe places for a lot of kids.
It's a difficult problem, because you can't blame those parents for wanting to send their kids to better schools, but you've also just made the bad schools that much worse because the schools really are about the students that are there. The chances of those schools producing students that have a good college prep education are lower and lower.
live love laugh
(16,383 posts)Johnny2X2X
(24,207 posts)More like affluent flight. Anyone who can afford to transport their kids themselves is leaving. There are families of all colors sending their kids to suburban schools, but it is mostly white in my estimation.
My school system is actually highly rated. Yet wealthy people in the district still pay college tuition prices to go to the local private schools.
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)
(Just a typical pre-teen from a typical private school in a typical wealthy suburb. Nothing to see here. FYI, reply title is sarcasm.)
happy feet
(1,279 posts)those parents are paying. They don't use public school taxpayer dollars in the guise of vouchers.
Johnny2X2X
(24,207 posts)They pay taxes that support the city's public schools, but then they send their kids to the suburbs where the people living there's taxes support the school and the schools get money from the state based on enrollment. Basically, a student moving from a city school to a suburban school takes about $10K from the city school and gives it to the suburban school vis state funding here in my state.
So it's just something that starts a downward spiral. Less money for the city schools makes them even less desirable. Less students means less money. Less good students makes them even more less desirable.
And you can't blame the parents, the city schools aren't safe in a lot of cases, they aren't even an option for some people.
NullTuples
(6,017 posts)There quickly becomes an imbalance between public schools in more affluent areas and those in less affluent areas. And it gets worse as time goes on. Even though hypothetically less affluent parents could send their children to a better school in practice there are countless barriers that add up.
aocommunalpunch
(4,581 posts)Don’t actually fix anything. Just shop, if you can afford it. Our fast-food society in a nutshell.
live love laugh
(16,383 posts)NullTuples
(6,017 posts)homegirl
(1,965 posts)has changed. Way back when at 14 I used public transportation to attend H.S. in Manhattan. Bus and subway on my own! Does this city not have public transportation?
live love laugh
(16,383 posts)
AllyCat
(18,842 posts)or your good friend that contributes to your campaign does
central scrutinizer
(12,654 posts)Is to break teachers’ unions. GQP hates these unions because they historically back progressive candidates.
Freddie
(10,104 posts)And charter schools are run by for-profit corporations that LOVE to feed off the taxpayer trough while paying teachers peanuts. It’s the Republican Way.
Lonestarblue
(13,480 posts)I’ve read that some for-prof charters do not require their teachers to have a college degree because then they can pay them less.
Ligyron
(8,006 posts)Makes one wonder if the schools they're running to are capable of turning out students knowledgeable enough to pass the entry requirements for a decent college. If the parents are concerned enough about their kids they usually send them to a so called magnet school that specializes in a certain discipline like math, science, etc. and these schools take over those in the not so desirable neighborhoods that scored poorly on evaluations and where a good portion of their students typically dropped out before.
Of course then those schools were extensively re staffed and idk where the former teachers, many of whom were just going through the motions ended up. Almost can't blame them though because the majority of their students were either a behavior problem or could care less and dropped out first chance they got.
AllyCat
(18,842 posts)Thomas Hurt
(13,982 posts)to christian private schools as possible.
Merrill
(149 posts)Vouchers are actually a for profit scam that funnels public education dollars into privatized bank accounts.
This is nationwide and it is a scam to defund public education ...........
Defunding Public Education Scheme
--- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-van-roekel/exposing-alecs-agenda-to-_b_3223651.html
ALEC is the organization pushing the scam..... ALEC has serious fascist tendencies.
There has been school choice in the USA for decades and decades so it's not like there is not a choice over and above public education. Parochial schools, private schools, home school all have
been around forever.
Joinfortmill
(21,163 posts)
Rebl2
(17,740 posts)had several charter schools in our area which also take money from the public school system. Some do okay, but some fail to the point the state closes them down or the sponsor quits because of poor performance of the school. I know you are talking about vouchers and they do hurt public schools, and the same goes for charter schools. Particularly when they fail because of poor testing scores.
Johnny2X2X
(24,207 posts)A lot of charter schools are terrible. But in some cases people know that and send their kids there anyway because at least they're safer than the other options they have.
And something that's really hard to quantify on quality, is that school quality has a lot to do with parents involvement. Have a family member who's a teacher in a poor but suburban/rural district. Parent teacher conferences for her are a 3 days, and she usually spends them alone in her classroom as most of the parents of her 4th graders don't bother to show up.
bif
(27,000 posts)LoisB
(13,028 posts)LaMouffette
(2,640 posts)created in the US and Muslim Americans asked for taxpayer money to send their kids there?
A quick googling tells me that a madrasa is any kind of Muslim educational institution, secular or religious, and there already are madrasas in the US.
If the voucher-craving folks get their way and receive vouchers, then it would only be fair to extend the same policy to all US schools, regardless of religion. But of course, "fair" is not a thing for so-called "conservative Christians."
Editing to add: I want to make clear that I, myself, am fine with US madrasas, but I don't think any private school should receive federal funding.
And another thing . . . ! Those who send their kids to private schools who believe they shouldn't have to pay taxes to support public schools are an abomination. My husband and I don't have kids, but we gladly support our public schools and vote yes for every school bond that comes up because we don't want dumb-ass future citizens running the country one day. Plus, we just care about other people's children.
AverageOldGuy
(3,835 posts)
EliteLiberal
(7 posts)Great summary of yet another socialist giveaway for the well off.
"Socialism for the rich, brutal capitalism for the poor"
To understand what today's repubs want, just imagine what the American oligarchs want. They are the same.
Public schools? No thank you. Oligarchs don't what that, taxes pay for it and they know their kids will always get an excellent education. As a bonus, the uneducated are easier to manipulate with emotional ploys.
homegirl
(1,965 posts)expressed his concerns about the "dangers of an educated proletariat."
kairos12
(13,590 posts)
Wild blueberry
(8,295 posts)Thank you.
flying_wahini
(8,275 posts)Or private schools.
Remember when Neil Bush (yeah, them) got into trouble for selling books to entire school systems that weren’t always that scientifically based? 2007
We will probably see that again if DeSantis has his way. It about MONEY.
https://www.trelease-on-reading.com/whatsnu_bush-mcgraw.html
“The amount of cross-pollination and mutual admiration between the Administration and [McGraw-Hill] is striking:
Harold McGraw Jr. sits on the national grant advisory and founding board of the Barbara Bush Foundation for Family Literacy. McGraw in turn received the highest literacy award from President Bush in the early 1990s, for his contributions to the cause of literacy. The McGraw Foundation awarded current Bush Education Secretary Rod Paige its highest educator's award while Paige was Houston's school chief; Paige, in turn, was the keynote speaker at McGraw-Hill's "government initiatives" conference last spring [2001]. Harold McGraw III was selected as a member of President George W. Bush's transition advisory team, along with McGraw-Hill board member Edward Rust Jr., the CEO of State Farm and an active member of the Business Roundtable on educational issues. An ex-chief of staff for Barbara Bush is returning to work for Laura Bush in the White House — after a stint with McGraw-Hill as a media relations executive. John Negroponte left his position as McGraw-Hill's executive vice president for global markets to become Bush's ambassador to the United Nations.”
The GOP wants to control how and what we teach our kids and wants taxpayers to have the option of taking a family’s school taxes and applying it to private/parochial schools. They want it to all funnel back down into their pockets.
hay rick
(9,605 posts)
SYFROYH
(34,214 posts)Here's a junior in high school now and doing fine.
For most of those years, we were a middle, middle-income family and vouchers (even a couple of thousand) would have been a big help.
We scrimped, saved, and begged from family to pay for tuition. And its almost over. My son will likely receive a HOPE Scholarship to attend a GA university.
Still I'm happy to support public education.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)Still on the fence about the vouchers though. I've seen plenty of people from poorly performing schools Wanting them. Throwing more money at the schools isnt the solution. If it was, we'd see it where spending per student is very high. If a voucher to go somewhere better isnt the solution, then maybe the State BOE takes over control of the worst ones if the local city/county wont do whatever is needed to fix them? Example, why was that shooter allowed to continue to go to a school where he had to be SEARCHED every day? If MY kid went to that school & I found out about that I'd be PISSED.
Phoenix61
(18,828 posts)is the answer. It gives you smaller classes in better facilities with highly skilled teachers. It gives you support staff, reading specialists, speech therapists, it gives you testing to identify leaning disabilities quickly. It gives you a robust music and arts program.
republianmushroom
(22,325 posts)you do understand it.
housecat
(3,138 posts)moondust
(21,286 posts)Will there be separate drinking fountains in the New Confederacy?
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)
moose65
(3,454 posts)It would also fit in these cases:
I don't like my taxpayer supported fire department, so I demand that my fire district give me money so I can pay for a private firefighting service.
I don't like my public library, so I demand that my city/county give me a voucher so I can go to a private library.
I don't like my city's police department, so I demand a voucher so that I can hire private security.
And on and on and on. People don't demand any of these things, but they do demand them in schools, all in the name of school choice.
Isn't "school choice" just something that was made up in response to the integration of the public schools?
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)just wait until you see what pops up and calls itself a school.
ItsjustMe
(11,971 posts)Elizabeth Warren alluded to the disturbing roots of school vouchers. But what did she mean?
On Monday, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren wrote a scathing letter to President-elect Donald Trump’s pick for education secretary, Betsy DeVos, questioning whether she had the expertise to run the department. Among Warren’s many criticisms of DeVos’ record — her unknown views on many aspects of higher education and civil rights issues, for example — Warren also mentioned the “racially charged history” of voucher programs.
“After Brown v. Board of Education and the court-ordered segregation of public schools, many Southern states established voucher schemes to allow white students to leave the education system and take taxpayer dollars with them, decimating the budgets of the public school districts. Today’s voucher schemes can be just as harmful to public school district budgets, because they often leave school districts with less funding to teach the most disadvantaged students, while funneling private dollars to unaccountable private schools that are not held to the same academic or civil rights standards as public schools.”