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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis day is low-key devastating for Trump
Kyle Cheney @kyledcheney · 1hHAPPENING NOW: For the second day in a row, Trump attorney Evan CORCORAN is in the federal courthouse.
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1 6m
NBC News: Trump lawyer Evan Corcoran has arrived at the federal courthouse in Washington, D.C. where he's set to appear before the grand jury hearing evidence in special counsel Jack Smith's classified documents investigation.
Joyce Alene @JoyceWhiteVance 54m
As Trump attorney Evan Corcoran appears in front of the special counsel's grand jury right now, news of another ruling from the appellate court.
Kyle Cheney @kyledcheney 58m
SIDE NOTE: Yesterday, the same appeals court panel that rejected efforts to block Corcoran's testimony made an identical ruling in another sealed case that we have yet to identify.
It's a stored communication (phone/email) case that Howell decided on March 3.
twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1639254465546194944
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Tommy Carcetti
(44,499 posts)( 
,obvs)
Botany
(77,324 posts)... documents.
And I think Corcoran will sing loud and clear to save his own ass. He saw what happened to Cohen.
Joinfortmill
(21,169 posts)gab13by13
(32,324 posts)to the Supreme Court. The appeal would have gone to Roberts and he would have lost but it would have delayed Corcoran testifying.
Curious if Corcoran will take the 5th?
What a set up Trump had.
It was his property but he gets a lawyer to draw up a document saying there are no classified documents. That lawyer gets another lawyer to sign the document, with stipulations that protect her.
Trump figures it could be a year's delay to get through the courts. Enter Jack Smith, not an institutionalist, he goes right to the district judge with evidence of a crime/fraud exception, he doesn't wait for the district court to rule on Trump's appeal. The district judge rules the likelihood crimes were committed, Trump appeals to the Appeals court who sees the evidence and boy do they expedite their decision within a matter of hours.
Today, because of Jack Smith's 2 minute offense, Evan Corcoran is testifying before the grand jury.
Donald Trump is having a nervous breakdown, he will be truly Wacko in Waco tomorrow.
flying_wahini
(8,275 posts)If he was involved with hiding evidence then Corcoran he could be tried as a criminal himself.
Legal folks?
Karadeniz
(24,746 posts)his fifth amendment right.
Jarqui
(10,909 posts)he could but wasn't going to because he feels he did nothing wrong
The simple gist was that Trump lied to him
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)Did someone ask him?
Jarqui
(10,909 posts)I think that came from them - he said he wasn't taking the 5th
These are not the best I saw but here's some tweets on it.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)Interesting. Bad news for Trump.
bluesbassman
(20,384 posts)Personally I think that’s the most likely scenario. If so, Trump is going down.
Jarqui
(10,909 posts)The judge has ordered those to be turned over.
So to some extent, he will be able to say "Trump told me this at the 31 minute mark of this recording" or "on page 3 of my notes on that day, Trump told me this"
His position (overly simplified for this discussion) is that he did not lie for Trump - Trump lied to him and he accepted his client's word.
Given the number of judges who have reviewed this and their hasty response along with their order to break attorney-client privilege, this is pretty bad news for Trump because it if all holds up, (and four judges see it that way,) they've got Trump on obstruction of justice for his lying.
I suspect the urgency is that classified documents are still missing and the government is understandably quite concerned about that. So it could get worse than obstruction - that he gave/sold classified docs to someone or lost them .. (as a speculative example)
This decision is very unusual and pretty bad for Trump.
paleotn
(22,218 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)did not say " wink wink I really have docs hidden but say I did anyway"?
IOW, TFG can still go back to how he had no idea? Nothing's changed?
What am I missing?
Jarqui
(10,909 posts)Attorney-client privilege was waived by the judges because a crime appears to have been committed.
The crime was some false or misleading statements were made (like Trump made about 34,000 times as President ...)
Corcoran's testimony, tapes and notes will reveal who made the false or misleading statements.
Since Corcoran is not taking the 5th (which he can't apparently on his notes), his nose is probably pretty clean.
His notes and tapes are likely to prove Trump lied - which is a crime - probably obstruction.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)That's what Corcoran proffered too.
Still strikes me that we already know that.
Assuming trump didn't say... "Not true but say this anyway," the point of all the joyfulness is that in actuality it's what happened? ????
Sorry in advance for seeming so dense.
Jarqui
(10,909 posts)There was a first batch of docs
Then another request
A few more docs
Subpoena
A few more docs
FBI Raid
100+ classified docs
More searches
a few more docs
Something like that.
But what if they cross checked and found after all that that there were classified docs still missing?
So the next step might be: who is responsible? Is Trump's lawyer in on the cover up?
The judges would not have waived attorney client privilege unless they thought a crime had been committed.
With Corcoran testifying today with his notes and audio transcripts and not taking the 5th, they have a pretty good idea of who lied and can prove it.
I suspect they want to checkmate Trump with "We just proved you lied."
So they can follow with: "Where are the fucking classified docs??? You better help us find them or you'll rot in prison. Your choice."
Interesting predicament. Trump could get sentenced to jail and because of the classified nature, they won't be able to provide much detail. So the GOP and FOX Propaganda can scream 'political prisoner!!'
What a mess.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)wisdom is that trump told lawyer all had been turned over, lawyer believed that and proffered that.
One of two things could happen..
1. Could prove what we think is true
Or
2. Could show that trump in reality never said he had turned over everything and there was no more. And, atty just took it upon themselves to say that... Cuz he had to say something?
If #2 happens, it kinda makes it better for trump. I didn't lie... Atty just made it up. Plus incriminates lawyer. Messy.
If #1 is proof he lied I guess? Would need more evidence that he knew... Like evidence he went somewhere and drooled over them lol.
Jarqui
(10,909 posts)"Could show that trump in reality never said he had turned over everything and there was no more. And, atty just took it upon themselves to say that... Cuz he had to say something?"
Is what Corcoran's notes, audio transcripts of speaking with Trump and his testimony will refute.
Corcoran did not take the 5th.
They subsequently found classified docs in Trump's desk.
This is looking heavily like it is landing on Trump.
2naSalit
(102,803 posts)Between legal eagles yesterday was that there was a choice to be made by Smith regarding Corcoran and what he chooses to do.
If Corcoran tells all and claims -45 lied to him, the defendant is screwed and Corcoran walks.
If Corocoran claims the 5th, the decision is whether to offer immunity and force a testimony or just charge him as a co-conspirator type defendant.
Either way, Corcoran's best option is to burn chump.
Raven123
(7,797 posts)However, if he has evidence of a crime by someone else he has to give it up. I think that’s why he has been forced to testify.
Joinfortmill
(21,169 posts)
MayReasonRule
(4,099 posts)Jack Smith got it done!
That's his modus operandi, time after time!
Arthur_Frain
(2,358 posts)Let’s see the catastrophic conflagration of egregiously exploding conservative heads in sequence with a quadrophonic soundtrack of ”Dark Side of the Moon”.
Volume to 11 please, because it’s a fine line between stupid and clever.
BannonsLiver
(20,595 posts)
bigtree
(94,265 posts)...won't put these devastating developments front and center in their reporting or accounts.
Doesn't serve their narrative that 'nOtHinG's GoNNa hApPen' to Trump, or their denigrating of DA Bragg for the apparently lesser charges he has in his pocket.
Link to tweet
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)Seems to have nothing to do with your own OP.
H2O Man
(79,055 posts)It's important to keep in mind that all of life imitates the sport of boxing. And in the Great Sport, "low-key devastat(ion)" is a reference to a series of body punches, which begin to inflict damage on the opponent, making it difficult to move in the ring, and fight back.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)Instead, he describes it as a rebuke to people with whom he has disagreed in the past.
H2O Man
(79,055 posts)You are correct. Bigtree failed to mention anything about boxing. Had he noted that the media and critics of the investigations ignore the obvious connection between all of human existence on earth and boxing -- even the Tyson quote that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face -- I would not have to be obnoxiously "correcting" everyone here! (grin) Safe to say that no media will quote Mike Tyson today, but we can all think of these events as Iron Mike landing a left hook to the orange blob's body.
bigtree
(94,265 posts)...but I like it as an analogy.
It's not the coverage that's going to convict Trump in the end. It'll be a series of devastating ruling like this one that will lead to the ultimate accountability we're hoping for in these investigations and prosecutions. They could very well weaken Trump for a knockout blow, but I'd expect a decision instead.
But, to the poster's point, it was just something that popped into my head to describe how under the radar these developments have been all been, obscured a bit, I think, by an entrenched bastion of cynicism over whether Trump will ever face accountability.
I'm content, though, just jabbing at it all, not looking for a killer knockout of genuine concern about justice denied.
H2O Man
(79,055 posts)thing about boxing ...... how one handles being nervous as the walk into the ring approaches. Up until you arive at the dressing room, you might think about the media reports, predicting what might happen. Then as you put on your trunks, lace your boxing shoes, and get your hands wrapped, you are aware of other people around you, but you begin to recognize it's all on you. No one else will be there in the ring with you but the opponent and a referee.
The walk to the ring usually includes walking through a crowd of spectators. Some cheer for you, while others boo & insult you. Your cornermen are walking behind you in this crowded arena, but you are all alone. If the fighter is thinking of excuses to blame their trainer for a loss, they will definitely lose. Always.
There are few experiences that come close to the feelings of being alone as when you climb those steps to get into the ring.
I think that we are both enjoying the experience that Trump is having now. This, despite the Eeyores that don't appreciate the process, and want to have the final outcome right now. Despite the bluster, Trump is beginning to grasp that all of those around him are being stripped away. It will be him and him alone going into the ring of justice to face Mr. Smith. And he is in for an ass-kicking.
bigtree
(94,265 posts)...it's as if you believe the response is directed to you personally.
Maybe you can explain why you felt compelled to call me out for it, along with the actual person I was responding to?
At any rate, I could very well be wrong about the focus and attention the press and others afford these devastating developments for Trump. Maybe the coverage and attention will turn out to be more amplified than I thought.
Never did I imagine 'low-key' would invite derision, but here we are. Why?
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)to have nothing to do with your, frankly, very informative OP.
And the reason I commented is that this is a discussion board. We all comment on many things here.
bigtree
(94,265 posts)...of all the things to focus on. 
H2O Man
(79,055 posts)should be happy. "Laughter and merriment for all," to quote John Lennon.
MayReasonRule
(4,099 posts)
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22low-key+devastating%22+site:www.reddit.com&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjr_qjTnfX9AhXWlGoFHShUCvAQrQIoA3oECBEQBA&biw=1123&bih=502&dpr=1.71#ip=1
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22low-key+devastating%22+twitter&sxsrf=APwXEdc7I5C3mMLhD-RUEU9vjN9r6mbg1Q%3A1679683710515&ei=fvAdZKn1HrXgxgH0w6-gBg&ved=0ahUKEwiprJm3nfX9AhU1sDEKHfThC2QQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=%22low-key+devastating%22+twitter&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIFCCEQoAE6CAgAEKIEELADOgUIIRCrAkoECEEYAVDgDFjfL2DQMGgBcAB4AIABkQKIAZwJkgEFMC41LjKYAQCgAQHIAQPAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/no-bears-movie-review-2022
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/auschwitz-a-history_sybille-steinbacher/588289/#edition=5538526&idiq=29223160
It's not an unheard of phrase.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)related to any of the things you have linked. Hence my confusion.
He described it as a rebuke to people he has disagreed with in the past.
MayReasonRule
(4,099 posts)Hence my response..
Happy Friday!
bigtree
(94,265 posts)...it's a mostly innocuous phrase in the title I used to describe the undercover manner in which this Corcoran and other lawyer news had developed, in my mind, because of the cynical coverage, and the pundits who regularly claim that nothing will come out of the investigation, or that nothing is being done to hold Trump accountable.
No one should put themselves in that light unless they feel its an apt description...
So much distraction, diversion and downplaying of the progress in these investigations that it's probably going to take even longer for many folks to appreciate, or even hear of this devastating development for Trump.
That's not a non-sequitur complaint, a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. It's my attempt to flesh out what was on my mind when I made the title. 'Low key' devastating, as in, there probably won't be interest that measures up to its importance.
What a strange, piffle that's arisen over such a simple phrase.
MayReasonRule
(4,099 posts)Just got through with Yellow and Purple popcorn watching a funny with my honey...
Pizza is up next, sourdough "dough" is rising right now...
I adore cooking, it's a form of gastronomical discourse.
It's one of my favorite ways to converse.
My apologies for any misunderstanding on my part.
Do you enjoy cooking perchance?
bigtree
(94,265 posts)...I'm the eater, except when I make a meal I've spent way too much for and barely create it after using the entire kitchen and all the pots and pans and utensils.
I think I know what you mean about conversing. I do that through my gardening.
MayReasonRule
(4,099 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 24, 2023, 10:00 PM - Edit history (1)
Currently gardening at my childhood home.
We garden year 'round!
What do you enjoy growing?
lark
(26,081 posts)Please oh please!!!
FakeNoose
(41,637 posts)Jack Smith has his hands full just investigating the possible charges against Chump.
Just sayin'
lark
(26,081 posts)Still good news, but I really really want Perry to go down too!!
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)Essentially taking the fall for Trump. God, I hope not.
paleotn
(22,218 posts)If he's got half a brain, which I'm sure he does, he's cooperating to save his own ass. Trump's a cheap skate anyway. "what's in it for him" taking the fifth wouldn't amount to much.
republianmushroom
(22,326 posts)Nov. 22 to Apr. 23, those before Nov. 22 back to Jan. 21 not so good. IMO
Dan
(5,179 posts)Is going for the throat with the left hand, and squeezing his nuts with his right hand.
H2O Man
(79,055 posts)This is an interesting time. I appreciate that you continue to post positive, factual updates on how things are going.
bigtree
(94,265 posts)...about how I came to do this.
It's pretty much like everything in my life. I might enjoy staying outside of it all and finding some comfortable spot to just sit and watch it all go down. But I saw a dearth of factual information here at DU, at a time where I was looking here for that informed perspective.
What I found persistently was a level of cynicism that outmatched the support I believe the DOJ's dual investigations deserved, so I started posting reports of those successes which are obscured by the natural secrecy of investigations, and usually only come out in little instances where witnesses and targets speak publicly.
My experience is that positive influences need to be in the room along with the negative ones, if only to just balance them out. As my old friend Guy Washington used to say, 'good always leaves, but bad comes to stay.'
What I've also found is that almost all of the angst expressed comes without citation or any proof at all about whatever they're on about. It's always interesting to me how vehemently one can argue against evident facts with absolutely nothing in hand to back any of it up, save the insistence its true.
We insist all the time that just saying something doesn't make it true, but offering nothing in rebuttal can leave a lie hanging there in default.
Thing is, I'm extremely uncomfortable in this role. I'm diligent in my search for relevant and correct info, but I'm not the actual source, and I end up defending someone else's reporting , or some fact I've read somewhere - all of it subject to ridicule or rebuke - and I don't always get it right. It's a little daunting.
I came to the internet almost 20 years ago now, and DU was one of my first stops. I had all sorts of notions of joining up with like-minded folks and we'd all share in the same advocacy and oppositions that I believed were cut-and-dry. It's been much more challenging, and I think that's a good thing.
It's been an education, and it's forced me to really make certain what it is that I stand for and represent. It's also led me to understand and appreciate motivations and opinions that differ from my own.
But, yeah, You're certainly welcome. It's all just part of my daily searches for info- as anxious as anyone here about the outcomes of it all - but stuck in this confident mode in default, posting whatever progress I can find to blot out the doubt in my own head, and hopefully help others here to do the same.
Alice Kramden
(2,951 posts)And this thread, sincerely
FakeNoose
(41,637 posts)What lawyer wants to risk losing his professional license and law practice, for a client like Chump?
Nobody in his right mind, that's who.
It had to come down to this sooner or later. Let's get this over with now!
