Nashville shooting: what it reveals about Americans' love of military-style guns

[marmar]

(Guardian UK) In September 2021, the gun manufacturer Smith & Wesson announced that it was relocating from the Massachusetts town in which it was incorporated in 1852 to a new location – Maryville in Blount county, Tennessee.

“We have been left with no other alternative,” the company complained, pointing to proposals in the Massachusetts legislature that would extend the state’s ban on AR-15 style rifles to the selling of all semi-automatic firearms. Some 750 jobs would be moved to Tennessee, the gun maker said, for a number of reasons, the first of which was that the state supported the second amendment right to bear arms.

Bill Lee, Tennessee’s Republican governor who has overseen the loosening of state gun laws in recent years including signing into law the ability of most adults to carry handguns without a permit, was ecstatic. “We’re proud this company has chosen to relocate to Blount Co,” he gloated.

Eighteen months later, and 180 miles away from Smith & Wesson’s sparkling new headquarters, a shooter entered a private Christian school in Nashville, Tennessee, on Monday and gunned down three nine-year-old children and three adult staff. The killer was armed with two semi-automatic firearms – an AR-15 style rifle and a semi-automatic pistol, both of which would be banned under the Massachusetts bill.

....(snip)....

A Washington Post investigation published on Monday (coincidentally about four hours before the Nashville shooter entered the Covenant school) explores how the AR-15 – a weapon designed for the battlefield and admired by the Pentagon for its “phenomenal lethality” – has become the best-selling rifle in the US.

Polling data from the Washington Post and Ipsos suggests that about one in every 20 US adults – about 16 million people – own at least one AR-15. The Post’s investigation also includes the devastating figure that AR-15s have been involved in 10 of the 17 deadliest mass shootings in the US in the past decade. ..............(more)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/28/nashville-shooting-assault-guns-marketing-profits

[LakeVermilion]

1. One in 20 Americans own an AR-15!

There's one on every block! Each one is worshiped!

[lindysalsagal]

5. I would have guessed 1 in 2000-10,000.

Seriously.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

15. The reported number is probably on the low end too.

I've seen estimates that 2-3 million new AR15's are made each year, and most are sold. Plus, thousands are put together by individuals themselves. With the hesitancy of a lot of gun owners to tell a stranger on the phone whether they own a AR15 or not, I would peg the number closer to 1 in 15 to 1 in 12 or about 20-25 million people who own them.

[NickB79]

24. And that's just AR's

AK's, SKS's, Mini-14's and various pistol caliber carbines probably add quite a bit more.

I'd guestimate that 1 in 10 own some form of semi-auto center-fire rifle.

[Amishman]

16. It's alarmingly high, my guess would be 1 in 10 gun owners.

I bought a pistol a few years back, as I'm in the middle of nowhere with a 30+ minute police response time.

When I was in the gun shop to buy, I knew exactly what I wanted. My BiL is an absolute gun nut and had helped me pick what worked for me (a CZ-75).

Gun shop clerk aggressively tried to redirect me to buying an AR-15. It was even cheaper than the pistol I wanted, and they had ton of them in stock. If I remember it right, they were like one in five of the store's inventory.

They're cheap, made in huge numbers, are frighteningly effective.

[Bonx]

27. I want one. Just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Fla_Democrat]

34. You gotta pump those numbers up...

[bdamomma]

3. it's money over life

and Tennessee has no gun laws. It's truly sickening. Our laws are broken in this country, and our way of life is being threatened by lunatics who believe that guns protect people.

Fuck that.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

4. It reveals a lot about worthless republican't screwheads, too.

[sanatanadharma]

6. It is about gun love and that is an illness

I am convinced that gun possession causes mental illness.
The lucky are those who die before they kill.

The especially ill are those who have no shame in accepting child-sacrifice as collateral damage to their desires.
Guns do not dispense humility nor humanity.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

8. ...,..

I am convinced that gun possession causes mental illness

Are you freaking serious?
So, according to you, just because I own a handgun, I have a mental illness?

Do you realize just how stupid that statement is?
Mind you, I'm not calling you stupid, just your statement.

How about all the other DUer's that own guns, do they have a mental illness also?

[Downsouthjukin]

9. I don't know.

I am about as liberal a person as anyone I know. I grew up in the south where guns were a part of normal life. Back then it was not assault rifles and most people I knew did not own a handgun unless they were a cop. A lot of people in the south survived the Great Depression in part by hunting to eat. My grandmother said her father would give her 5 .22 cartridges and tell her to bring something home to eat and I know that to be true.

I know also that there are far more people in this country that have never been around guns, did not grow up hunting and shooting for fun and I get that they have different sentiments and feelings about guns altogether. I am for better gun laws and support common sense legislation to better control access to guns like AR15's and AK47's and such. I recently did some research into the subject when I was talking about gun violence with my father.

I was kind of surprised at what I found. From what I could find from sources I would deem reliable there are approximately 73 million gun owners in the country. There are an estimated 400 million guns in the country and I have to believe it is real more than that because prior to 1968 they were not even serialized nor records of sales really kept. In 2020 there were approximately 24,000 homicides with guns and a little less than that number of suicides and accidental deaths. So roughly 48,000. Our population is 332 million.

Any gun deaths are too many and all of them are equally tragic. But objectively looking at those numbers it means 399,976,000 guns were not used in homicides in 2020 and 72,976,000 gun owners did not use their guns to kill anyone. I own more guns than I need I really do. I am a retired Reservist and a retired Law Enforcement officer and I have voted for Democrats in every election since I turned 18. So its kinda of hard for me to paint all gun owners with the same paint and I don't think that owning guns or enjoying shooting make you a sick person. Is there more that could be done and should be done, your damn skippy. But I don't think we do ourselves any favors toward making progress by painting with such a broad brush.

73 million gun owners. That is more people than the 66 million who receive Social Security, more than the 64 million who receive Medicare benefits, more than the 25 million who play golf. It is a lot of people.

[brer cat]

11. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

I agree that painting with a broad brush covers up a lot of people who agree with us. There is much we can do and we need everyone who agrees on our side, even those who own guns for hunting, personal defense, or enjoyment of shooting. I have no statistics, but I suspect the majority of gun owners would agree that our gun laws are too lax and reasonable gun control needs to be passed.

Welcome to DU. What part of the south are you from? I live in the southern hills of the Appalachian. I should ask who your momma and daddy are and what church you attend like any true southern would, but I avoid getting that personal.

[RussBLib]

12. compelling

I own a shotgun. Had it for many years. I think that sanatanadharma's post is coming mostly from emotion. I don't think there is any doubt some people who are already mentally ill can still buy weapons in many states. Also, a love of guns can cross the line and could tip a rather precarious individual over the edge into the mental abyss. But we don't know what really causes mental illness with any certainty.

Painting with such a broad brush is generally unwise.

[Whiskeytide]

19. My take is that there is a glaring difference between a ...

… gun owner and an AR-15 (or similar military style rifle) owner.

There are many reasonable purposes for owning a gun. Hunting, home defense, maybe sport shooting. I own 5 guns. Two are hand guns, two are very old shotguns I inherited, and one is the first shotgun my dad bought for me when I was a teenager and hunted with him. I don’t think owning any of those guns means I’m mentally ill.

OTOH, there is only one reason to own a military style weapon - and that is to play army (or militia) and dream of the day there is some sort of apocalyptic, societal collapse where you’ll get to mow down zombies, Chinese hordes, government agents or maybe just Democrats.

And there is something deeply disturbing about the mind that thinks that way. If you spend time fantasizing about actually using a military weapon for its true intended purpose - to kill a lot of people quickly and efficiently - you’re fucked up.

[sl8]

7. Washington Post article referenced:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-america-gun-culture-politics/

AMERICAN ICON
The gun that divides a nation
The AR-15 thrives in times of tension and tragedy. This is how it came to dominate the marketplace – and loom so large in the American psyche.
It is revered as a modern-day musket.
It is reviled as a tool for mass killers.

By Todd C. Frankel, Shawn Boburg, Josh Dawsey, Ashley Parker and Alex Horton
March 27 at 6:13 a.m.

The AR-15 wasn’t supposed to be a bestseller.

The rugged, powerful weapon was originally designed as a soldiers’ rifle in the late 1950s. “An outstanding weapon with phenomenal lethality,” an internal Pentagon report raved. It soon became standard issue for U.S. troops in the Vietnam War, where the weapon earned a new name: the M16.

But few gunmakers saw a semiautomatic version of the rifle — with its shrouded barrel, pistol grip and jutting ammunition magazine — as a product for ordinary people. It didn’t seem suited for hunting. It seemed like overkill for home defense. Gun executives doubted many buyers would want to spend their money on one.

[...]

[Kaleva]

10. The AR-15 is very adaptable and modular. It's going to be hard to ban

The platform be modified to fire anything from .22 KR to shotgun shells.

In many states, it's legal to hunt deer with. It's very good for coyotes, racoons, bobcat and other small game animals. The more powerful AR-10 is suitable for hunting bison, elk, grizzly bears and big horn sheep Fitted with high capacity magazines, it's a deadly mass murder tool.

It is this adaptability that makes it popular .

[Paladin]

13. Its LOOKS make it popular. Adaptability is a distant second.

It LOOKS exactly like what it is: A firearm specifically designed to kill human beings, not game animals. No surprise at all that AR's are used in so many mass slaughters of people.

[Kaleva]

14. The Ruger Mini-14 looks like and is a killing machine too

But it's nowhere as popular as the AR-15 style rifles

The Ruger Mini-14 looks like the M14 battle rifle formerly used by the US army and is still in service for some tasks.

Once you buy a Ruger Mini-14 chambered to fire a certain cartridge, that's what you got. You can't modify it to fire another size cartridge like one can with a AR 15 style rifle

[Paladin]

17. Get back to me, the next time a Winchester Model 70 bolt-action is used...

...to kill a bunch of school kids, instead of deer.

[EX500rider]

26. Been awhile, but that is the weapon used in one of the 1st school shootings

Charles Whitman killed 15 people and injured 31 others before he was killed, used a bolt action Remington Model 700

[Paladin]

32. Yeah, I know.

I was in Austin that day. I had a high school friend whose mother was killed by Whitman. Another school friend of mine had an older brother who repeatedly ran out on the mall and carried wounded people to safety; you can see him and other guys in the B&W films that still get shown. He didn't get shot, but he required years of counseling to deal with the experience. You're right---it's "been awhile," but a mass slaughter by a deranged gunman is something you never forget.

[Kaleva]

28. That doesn't address what I said

Doesn't the Mini-14 look like the M14? The later being a frontline battle rifle for the Army and Marines into the 1960s and is still in use today for certain tasks. It was the main rifle for sailors when I was in the Navy back in the 80d and very early 90s.

Unlike the bolt action you refered to, the Mini-14 is a semiautomatic like the AR-15 style, can be fitted with high capacity magazines like the AR-15 style and is chambered to fire the dreaded .223 Remington like many AR-15 style rifles do . But it doesn't sell anywhere near as much as the AR-15 style does.

[Paladin]

33. You lost me with that snotty "dreaded .223 Remington" comment. (nt)

[Fla_Democrat]

35. Is that why you bought yours?

The looks wasn't a factor in my decision. or adaptability, though I guess it could be viewed that was. It was the modularity, and the availability of aftermarket parts. I liked that with I could have several different uppers, depending on what I wanted to do, and could switch out a .223 for a 7.62 (by 35, or 39mm) without having to buy another gun and fill out another 4473, pay for another background check, etc.

I liked the fact that I could take an upper from manufacturer A, and mate it with a lower from manufacturer G, and they fit perfectly because they are all designed to the same spec. Having tossed cordless drills over the years, because the new set doesn't work with my old set's batteries, kinda grated on me.

I like the interchangeability. Looks had nothing to do with it... which explains my Glocks. They are (imho) butt ugly pistols, but I like the magazine from my gen 4 G17 fitting my gen 3 G19, fitting my AR-9, fitting my Ruger PC Charger.

Accepting that the AR platform is the most popular rifle, (like the F150 is the most popular truck), I imagine the reasons may vary why the buyers chose it. I tend to think most people think like I do ( false consensus effect?), so I think my reasons would be everyone's. Maybe I shouldn't. So, what was your reason?

[Aristus]

18. I'm not convinced that adaptability is the reason for its popularity.

It's the way it looks. Big, black, mean, deadly-looking, angular, hard-edged, intimidating.

All those 400lb buffoons parading around in tactical gear even thought they'd die of a heart attack if confronted with a military obstacle course, aren't swaggering around with one-shot, bolt-action deer rifles.

[Kaleva]

29. I think it's one of the main reasons

Appearance could very well be another.

[SYFROYH]

20. I give credit to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban for the current popularity of ARs and such

It was a classic forbidden fruit effect. ARs and other pistol-gripped, detachable semi-auto rifles were not exceedingly popular prior to the failed 1994 AWB. A lot of people thought them ugly.

But once the federal government said that regular people shouldn't own them, it created a reaction from conservative gun owners (Bill Clinton talked about this in his memoir) and a lot of interest in acquiring them. I was one of the latter. When my friends and I were talking about getting some plinking rifles our research turned up the AR-15. Even during the ban you could buy them without some of the cosmetic or non-essential features.

In the 1990s, there were really only three manufacturers: Armalite, Bushmaster, and Colt (ABC). Then Rock River came along with its big contract with the FBI (CRAB).

And then when the ban was over, interest exploded. Once people started to shoot them at ranges, people liked the adaptability and shooting ease.

Unintended consequences.

[sarisataka]

25. This cannot be overstated

I recall in the years before 1994 ARs available for around $100, AK clones even less. And they sat on the shelves; nobody wanted them.

Come '94 the price goes up 10x and there is more demand than availability.

[Kaleva]

30. Yes, I've read that the AWB was a boon for the AR-15

[moondust]

21. IMO they are not about self-defense.

Military-style weapons would be useful in a shoot-out with a group of combatants. I never hear of that happening in civilian life.

IMO owning assault weapons is about trying to satisfy personal feelings of inadequacy or the desire to feel more dominant, more intimidating, etc.

[Downsouthjukin]

22. Sadly

This is true for a large swath of newer gun enthusiast especially of the "conservative" persuasion. These guys you see like the republican congressman from Tennessee on his Christmas card, the proud boys at the drag shows, the endless parade of you tubers "training" with assault rifles dressed in what they think passes for military garb. For them it's all about the fantasy world they live in, the one where they are brave enough to have been in the military. They enjoy trying to emulate that which they are not. It is enough to make you puke.

[Kaleva]

31. If I felt I needed that much firepower, I'd tell my wife we were moving

[wiggs]

23. toy the weak use to feel powerful, or...Adrenalin rush for bullies, or..vehicle for solving

perceived problems most people have the ability to solve peacefully.

Gun culture has taught many that guns are too often a solution.