This is all Gerald Ford's fault.

[Beautiful Disaster]

[captain queeg]

1. OK, I'll bite. How so?

[LoisB]

4. He pardoned Richard Nixon.

[grantcart]

7. If Richard Nixon went to jail Trump would never had run for President

[TwilightZone]

8. I don't buy that.

Trump ran for president to get back at people he thought had slighted him and to pump up the Trump brand. Money and vengeance. There really wasn't much more to it than that.

I doubt a different outcome for Nixon would have mattered. It's also not a given that Nixon would have gone to jail.

[H2O Man]

12. Nixon had a plan

to fight potential charges that would have worked. He would have had his defense go after national security intelligence in the pre-trial motions, claiming they justified his crimes. The federal courts would have held he had the right to them, and the DOJ would never have been able to have them used in open trial.

It's one thing to say he should have gone to jail. But it is incorrect to think that it was a certainty if Ford didn't pardon him. The pardon was absolutely about getting Dick to resign and Watergate to be put in the past.

[Mad_Machine76]

25. If he thought that that would work

Why didn't he stay and fight?

[Polybius]

26. The votes were there to impeach and remove him

Had he not been pardoned, he would have fought the charges.

[H2O Man]

30. Right.

The two are distinct. He didn't want to be impeached, as he knew the Senate would convict him. That isn't related to the defense tactics he planned to use if indicted.

[H2O Man]

32. As noted below,

that's apples and oranges. He left because the House was preparing to vote on impeaching him. The outcome of that vote was certain. More, he lost any meaningful support in the Senate, which would have convicted him in the impeachment trial

Criminal charges are distinct. They would have been brought by the Department of Justice, and decided in federal court. Even after he resigned, up until the pardon, he still could have been indicted. In the context of the time, I think it is highly unlikely it would have come close to going to trial. Of course, that is merely my opinion, and other intelligent people think otherwise. But most of them have likely either forgotten, or never have learned, what Nixon planned.

Al Haig was primarily responsable for Ford granting the pardon. Haig was a curious mixture of good and bad. But he was always aware of what the Joint Chiefs thought, and worked on their behalf. Keep in mind, for example, the spy they planted in Henry Kissinger's office. Nixon didn't dare to address the JCS for that.

I wanted to have Nixon indicted back then, at very least as much as anyone here. I was furious with the pardon. But in the years since, after studying it closely, I don't think there was any real chance of convicting him. Either a judge would have dismissed it for the reasons I stated, or Nixon would have died. His health suffered under the pressures on him, both physically and mentally.

[grantcart]

15. Trump ran for President for two reasons

1) He thought he probably would lose (he had been on the ticket two times before) and thought that it would be a way to leverage political donations into expanding his brand name.

2) If he won he would have a position that he thought and permanent and complete immunity for his grifting. If he saw that taking the office would increase his profile without providing the immunity of prosecution and that he could actually end up in a jail cell he wouldn't have taken the risk. He thought that becoming President gave him a permanent "get out of jail" card. That was pretty clear by both his implicit and explicit actions and statements, things like "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue . . .".

It isn't just a theoretical take, it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt when he a) took the classified documents and b) dug himself a huge hole by lying about them. He absolutely believed, based on what happened to Nixon that once somebody became President they had absolute and permanent immunity.

Trump was an active student of Nixon. The two exchanged letters and bonded despite a 40 year difference in age. Even when most others had abandoned Nixon, Trump kept in touch writing the ex President frequently. When Trumps' business empire was in the dumps in the 90s Nixon wrote him to cheer him up. Somehow I think that if Nixon was writing from San Clemente Trump would have passed on exposing himself to the liability rather than seeking the permanent immunity that he thought he was going to get, something he still thought he had up until today.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

23. I think he had assurances through Manafort and Bannon

Traitortrump assumed Putin would get him elected and re-elected. What worked in 2016 did not work in 2020.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

35. I disagree that he expected to lose

He's too narcissistic to think that could ever happen to someone as "perfect and wonderful" (gag) as him. Worse, like all of the malignant narcissists I've ever known, he's too manipulative and amoral not to do whatever he could to make sure he wouldn't lose. Like getting the Russians to help him out.

So scratch #1.

He ran for the reasons all of his kind do: To gratify his ego with the endless attention the office would give him, malicious revenge against the black guy who dared to try making him look bad, and to make piles of money while he was at it.

Malignant narcissists aren't all that complicated, after all.

[3Hotdogs]

22. Trump and Nixon were in frequent communication with each other after Nixon left office. Nixon

encouraged Trump to run for president. This charge was on Rachel's show this evening.

[BannonsLiver]

41. I think the overarching point is that it would have established precedent for accountability.

Rather than treating presidents as though they are kings.

[RockRaven]

2. Every Repuke POTUS since Ford did that has been brazenly corrupt and lawless.

They haven't even tried to hide it. They're dead certain they can get away with anything.

What he did is a stain on this country. It is outrageous that it is so generally forgotten or overlooked.

[Initech]

14. And conservative talk radio coves up their crimes with 24 hour a day lies.

[Polybius]

27. I can't stand the guy, what what did Bush Sr. do as President that was brazenly corrupt and lawless?

[RockRaven]

31. GHW Bush was a participant in Iran-Contra, and pardoned 6 co-conspirators including

Casper Weinberger just as his trial was about to begin. Pardons issued on Christmas Eve 1992. Was widely viewed as a cover-up at the time, with no contrary evidence to change that since.

From Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

The rest of those indicted or convicted were all pardoned in the final days of the presidency of George H. W. Bush, who had been vice president at the time of the affair.[14] Former Independent Counsel Walsh noted that in issuing the pardons, Bush appeared to have been preempting being implicated himself by evidence that came to light during the Weinberger trial, and noted that there was a pattern of "deception and obstruction" by Bush, Weinberger and other senior Reagan administration officials.[15] Walsh submitted his final report on August 4, 1993,[16] and later wrote an account of his experiences as counsel, Firewall: The Iran-Contra Conspiracy and Cover-Up.[15]

[gldstwmn]

3. He set the precedent by pardoning Nixon.

But Nixon never tried to overthrow our government, nor do I think he was involved in espionage.
This is apples and oranges really.

[evolves]

17. nixon committed treason by interfering

in the peace process Johnson was trying to broker in Vietnam, assuring that the war would continue and tens of thousands more would die.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/

http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/syndicated/vietnam-treason-u-s-troops-died-candidate-used-war-become-president/


The ghouls of the nixon administration resurfaced in the bush administrations to wreak their special brands of havoc on the country and the world:
cheney
rumsfeld
weinberger
kissinger

If all of these criminals had been prosecuted to the full extent of the law, it would have been made abundantly evident that committing crimes against the state has consequences.

Until now, there have been NO CONSEQUENCES.

[gldstwmn]

37. Be that as it may, my point was that these two cases are not the same.

Make no mistake, I am not excusing Nixon in any way and I am well aware of the NeoCon holdovers from that administration that kept popping up like an unflushable turd.

[Bettie]

5. Agreed, if Ford had done the right thing

and let Nixon face his consequences, we would not be in this situation.

[irisblue]

6. Historians Kruse & Zelizer agree

Source-https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/04/democrats-impeach-trump-accountability-watergate-gerald-ford-richard-nixon-column/2762361002/

while this oped is towards the impeachment, the fact stands, Gerald Ford was wrong in pardoning Nuxon

[Scottie Mom]

10. I watched every minute of the Watergate hearings I could.

I am STILL pissed off at Ford for pardoning Nixon.

[Irish_Dem]

9. Beschloss on Rachel's show said Nixon may have threatened Ford.

To the point Ford was afraid what might happen if he did not do what Nixon wanted.

Sounds familiar doesn't it.

[crickets]

13. Boy does it, now. That was a point that hadn't occurred to me at the time.

It was fascinating to hear it mentioned tonight. I'll drop this little pebble in the pond: don't forget Gerald Ford served on the Warren Commission.

[Irish_Dem]

16. I had not thought about that angle either, Nixon threatening Ford.

Beschloss also said Nixon could have also threatened Ford with releasing information about Ford.
Ford didn't want to deal with everything Nixon could do to him.
Ford was afraid of Nixon.

Ford said that he did it for the good of the country, but people were furious and Ford's
poll numbers dropped, so it does appear Ford pardoned Nixon for his own personal reasons.

Yes Ford was involved in the Warren Commission.
And now we know he was easily intimidated by others.
And had a history that was open to blackmail.

The Warren Commission was a cover up.

[gldstwmn]

38. I heard that and I wonder what Nixon had on Ford?

[Irish_Dem]

40. They were friends for decades.

Yes I wonder what Nixon had on Ford.

Could be anything I suppose.

Or maybe Ford was well aware of how nasty Nixon could get.

[JHB]

11. It's a number of people's fault, Ford prominent among them...

...but he's not the only one.

Let's just say that it wasn't Ford who said "America doesn't need and doesn't want another failed presidency" in the face of Republican malfeasance, which set the standard for thirty years of blindness about the Republicans. They've been awful for a very long time, but "reasonable" people looked away to avoid fights.

People who called it right were dismissed as "kooks."

[Kaleva]

18. I think it's Trump's fault.

[Poiuyt]

19. In Trump's case, I don't think it would have mattered if Ford had not pardoned Nixon

Trump is a sociopath who doesn't think the laws apply to him. I'm not even sure if he knows right from wrong.

[SharonClark]

20. I agree.

[gldstwmn]

39. Agree. He is probably in his glory today as everyone is focused on him again, which is what his

malignant narcissism demands.

[3Hotdogs]

21. Eric Holder didn't help much, either.

[Shipwack]

24. If one is going to go down this road, so was Obama, maybe even more so.

One could expect a Republican to turn a blind eye toward another Republicans crimes.

With Obama, the world saw that even a Democrat would turn a blind eye toward a Republican's crimes. Did he earn any Republican respect by doing this? No, just the opposite.

"We have to look forward, not backward." A good slogan, and it was the easy way to proceed.

I do concede that hindsight is 20/20. I also concede that it's easy for me, a white guy, to say that Obama should have been more aggressive. It definitely would not have been easy. But... It's a moot point.

[moondust]

28. Not all.

A respectable political party would have cleaned up its act after their leader had to be removed from the country's highest office for corruption. The GQP got worse:

The presidency of Ronald Reagan in the United States was marked by numerous scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials, the largest number for any president in American history.
~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals

The GQP apparently adopted the Presidential pardon to cover their corruption instead of getting straight. Looks like Reagan issued about 393 pardons:

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-ronald-reagan-1981-1989

[JI7]

29. No

[Beautiful Disaster]

33. Yes

[JI7]

34. No

[Beautiful Disaster]

36. Si