Just my opinion, but why does it seem that so many Catholics are nonpracticing or nonbelievers in

[debm55]

religion? I really don't think that the main reason is the priest scandal, but it was the straw that broke the camels back. I look back at my strict Catholic homelife and 8 years in a Catholic school and I think of how I once believed some of the things that I did.
Thank you.

[Elessar Zappa]

1. For a long time

at least half of baptized Catholics are “cultural Catholics” i.e. They may own a rosary and get married and buried by the Church but they’re generally not churchgoers and may even be agnostics or atheists.

Hope this make sense, I just had a gummy thc edible so I’m floating on cloud 9.

[debm55]

2. Yes, I consider myself a cafeteria Catholic. We call people like me Easter Bunnies and Christmas

Trees because if we do go to church, it's Christmas and Easter.

[shrike3]

19. I see this among white Christians in general.

This may be a feature of where I live. I could ask any of my white acquaintances re their spiritual beliefs and most would say "Christian" or "Catholic" in some instances. And almost none of those go to church. Even those who talk about sin, etc.

The folks of color I know are more likely to practice, regardless of which church they belong to.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

43. few have 12 kids, most use birth control... one of the rules most flaunted by American Catholics

[H2O Man]

62. It makes perfect sense.

Of course, I've been hitting the bong all evening. It helps reduce the pain of having been forced to attend the catholic church as a youngster.

[pamdb]

3. catholic upbringing

12 years in catholic school. The religion never took. I want nothing to do with religion.

My husband and his brothers (all 8 boys) not one is a practicing catholic. There might be one or two who go on
holidays; Christmas and Easter, but none of their kids went to catholic schools. Some didn't marry catholic girls.

I have other friends were catholic until much later, maybe in their 50's, and they gradually drifted away.

I am happy when I read about the drop in younger people leaving organized religion.

BTW we are all in our 70's.

[dalton99a]

4. Looks like the outfit has been taken over by "pro-life" extremists who vote Republican

Otherwise it's just a medieval cult that forces priests to live like eunuchs and demands payments to get your family members out of purgatory

[scarletlib]

24. True.

The Church had abandoned its real teaching such as doing good works, the gospel of love and forgiveness that Jesus taught. The brief Renaissance of the 60’s and 70’s when the Church moved toward loving progressive policies & laws were discarded under Pope John II, or J2P2 as I called him.

I wouldn’t say I left the Church so much as it left me.

[shrike3]

51. The "outfit" is only eight percent of the global RCC

There's no such thing as a Republican party outside of the U.S. That said, there's plenty of dissent within the global body, with the German Church pressing for LGBTQ rights and a mini-schism having happened in Africa, a tiny percentage of priests wanting to get married and forming their own church to do it. And then there's climate change, which is wreaking havoc in (very Catholic) parts of Africa.

No one asks for money to get anybody's relatives out of purgatory.

[padfun]

5. I was an altar boy in the Latin mass.

back in 1961-63.

And even at 8 years old, I didn't believe in their god.
I saw the game for what it was, a huge money/power scam.

[debm55]

11. I look at myself as more spiritual and less Catholic then I was as a child.

[Sanity Claws]

6. Pretty harsh doctrine; lots of magical thinking

I was raised Catholic and that is what I experienced.

[lindysalsagal]

7. Welcome to American hollow values: meaningless labels

Marketing. Pure matketing.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Catholicism offers culture and framework for living ..

belief in angels and fairies it is sorta nice, but not really required.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

9. I am a recovering Catholic.

I have issues with the Patriarchy of the Church in its treatment of women, about opposing Birth Control other than for Natural Family Planning, the priest sex abuse scandal, their anti-LGBTQ stand, and more.

I do not bemoan those who still practice, attend Mass regularly, say the rosary, etc. It is not where I have been all these years. I still pray and try to live a moral life as best I can. It has not been easy of late about you-know-who.

[debm55]

14. Yes, that is how I am too. I try to live a good life, to be kind to others. I know for various

reasons the church has changed. That's why I think I am more spiritual then religious.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

16. Me too.

My relationship to God and Jesus has not wavered.

[LakeArenal]

10. I think it's pretty much the same for most churches.

Religion is out of vogue now.

That being said I know plenty of nice people who happen to be religious.

For me brought up Protestant. Knew at 12 it was all made up.

[shrike3]

20. Depends on which part of the world you're in.

The West, definitely. Other places, not so much. I remember during the rescue of the Thai team and its coach, one of the rescuers, a Thai, said, "We pray. That is what the Thai people do, we pray." Thailand is overwhelmingly Buddhist.

[LakeArenal]

74. Thought we were discussing Catholics in US.

Not sure about Buddhists in Thailand

[mcar]

12. That's what did it for me

I'm a cradle Catholic, parochial schools all the way. I even attended a Jesuit college.

Raised oldest kid in the church, he was an altar boy, I was a lector and served on the parish council.

When the "scandal" hit, I could no longer tolerate the hypocrisy of these men telling us what sinners we all were. Plus, they were always grubbing for money. Serving on the parish council, I knew how much money this small church had but it never ended.

We joined the nearby Presbyterian church when youngest kid was 4. He grew up in that church and made some great friends. Once he was middle school aged, he joined the youth group. Every summer, they'd go on a week long service trip, usually to North Carolina, where they'd help poor, elderly people by building a wheelchair ramp, etc. Those trips were much more a lesson in doing unto others than any lecture from a priest ever could be.

Now that the kids are grown, we rarely attend at all.

[albacore]

13. I had the nuns for 8 years...

...and the Jesuits for 4 years.

Thanks... all of you ... for helping me become an atheist.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

17. From Class Clown....

Loved where he said he loved to impersonate Father Rivera in the confessional.

Damn how I miss George Carlin.

[ret5hd]

15. I have heard before that more atheists...

are made in catholic schools than anywhere else.

I personally can back that up. 9 yrs of catholic school. The education was very good…math, reading, spelling…and they expected you to use your brain, not rote memorization. Explain your answer, defend your logic.

And then they expected you to completely drop that attitude when you went to the theology class.

Yeah, that didn’t work out the way they hoped. At least in my experience.

[debm55]

21. I remember telling a story in the Lounge, that after I made my First Communion, I used to go to

Last edited Wed Apr 5, 2023, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Confession every Saturday. What sins does a 7 year old have? So I made them up. Otherwise. I could not go to Communion on Sunday. And when the priest said God was the Alpha and Omega, I asked him, how could something be out of nothing. He gave me the answer that is what Faith is. It was confusing to me. In college, I stopped going. I am a good person, but I can't believe in some stuff. Honor your parents--when they beat you to a pulp, give you black eyes. call me a pimple faced whore. I called out to God and I got no answer. And I was expected to confess my sins. and be a good Catholic.

[albacore]

53. Double that for Jesuits. Reason and deduction were their favorites.

That doesn't mix well with dogma.

[shrike3]

18. I practice. I think what part of the country you're in has something to do with that.

Here in the Midwest, church attendance is much more steady than it was on the East Coast, where I formerly lived.

I've often heard that Southerners are more devout. And I've been told southern Catholics (they exist) are also more likely to attend mass.

All that said, I know Catholics, and other folks who identify as "Christian" and never go to church. More like a cultural identity.

The identity thing is more prevalent among whites (my experience and observation) than people of color.

[debm55]

38. I live outside Pittsburgh.

[shrike3]

22. I'd like to add, the American church is only eight percent of the global church.

Religious experience and expression is far different elsewhere in the world, not only for Catholicism but other faiths.

[electric_blue68]

23. Former Ukrainian Catholic, public schooling...

I consider myself to be Spiritual, stating changing around 16 yes old.

Catholicism's Patriarchy, anti birth control pushed me away.
I love the Women Priests movement!

Do I believe in God? Yes, but not usually as in how I was taught. Like a Power, or Powers. Not here to discuss that.


If I believed in a certain way I'd probably be a member even if only going several times a year Palm & Easter Sunday, Christmas, maybe a few more bc the church is so gorgeous; I'd be a member of the very liberal, progressive St John The Divine (? Episcopal) Cathedral.
It's so Ecumenical!!!!! And has been doing justice, and ecological work for decades, too. The Cathedral building is So Gloriously Beautiful, too! 🥰🧡🥰


ETA!
Of course, sexual abuse by certain priests is hideous, horiffic (!!!!!) with too often life chilling effects. I guess, I wonder how much had gone elsewhere in other organizations (yes, I've heard of some). Is it worse in the Catholic Church - that would be an extra excoriating factor, for sure. If not - and I don't know - I wonder, just this very second; a lingering echo of anti-Catholism that was and still is in some cases of this country earlier on. Hmmmm.

[debm55]

26. I was baptized Byzantine. I have had friends tell me to become Episcopal.

[electric_blue68]

28. Here in NYC St John The Divine is Wonderful! Maybe you could check out....

the most liberal Episcopal Church. Maybe Anglican, too.

I kinda like Universal Unitarians, too. They even have if I've read correctly some Agnostcs & Aetheists in their groups.

As a very visual person I love the fancy look of many Catholic, and Eastern Churches.

[debm55]

39. I don't think it is just the scandal. I am the type of person that needs answers for things and I

Last edited Wed Apr 5, 2023, 10:56 PM - Edit history (1)

wasn't getting them at my church . My question was why does it seem like more Catholics are leaving the Church-a church I would have been happy to serve, at one time as a nun? EDIt

[electric_blue68]

54. Uh...

I gave you my answer anyway. Starting leaving around 16 yes old - in 1969. Because of patriarchal views

[debm55]

58. electric blue, I edit my post. I left out that the church wasn't being honest with me. That's all I

would ask from them. They needed to tell me that they didn't know. I am very sorry if it sounded like it was you that wasn't being honest. I will look into an Episcopal church near to my home. Thank you and again I am very sorry.

[electric_blue68]

59. No problem debm55. 👍 Best wishes on you checking another church out finding a spiritual home for...

... yourself. 👍🙂

[mvd]

52. Spiritual is what I call myself

I went to Catholic high school, but even then it was for the excellence in non theological teaching like math, English and science. I love certain things about the faith - the mass (even though I do not attend), the rituals, the artwork, and passages like The Sermon on the Mount. I consider the Bible to be inspired by God but not to be taken literally. I also see God as like a force. I believe in the Resurrection but certain things like the Virgin Birth are harder - I try, though. I still haven’t sufficiently had explained why there is so much suffering in the world and the randomness. And of course I have my own views on abortion and treatment of LGBTQ people. Always been a fan of Christmas - I like the gift giving but never forget the true meaning.

[electric_blue68]

56. God as a Force...

Ah, that's kind if like when I said I sometimes think of God as a Power.


Well, the suffering... I've always thought of that as the consequence of Free Will. Unfortunately, there are very cruel, very bigoted, and/or very greedy people in our world who has serious distain, and impose/d cruelties on various vunerable groups, individuals.

[mvd]

66. Hi - I agree. We have similar views on God

I think there is a form of Heaven but not sure about Hell. I do think there could be evil beings not living.

I have heard the Free Will argument. It makes some sense but still the suffering bothers me. Interesting discussion.

[electric_blue68]

67. Oh, the suffering bothers me too. I've had my share, and many many more have had it a lot worse!

[Just A Box Of Rain]

25. I'm a lifelong secularist.

However, one Christmas night while visiting Florence, I was plucked from the crowd of parishioners in the Duomo, the famous 14th cathedral designed by Filippo Brunelleschi, in the city's center. Why me? Who knows.

I was taken into the vestry, where I put on a beautifully embroidered liturgical garments and was given a large silver tray holding communion wafers.

I was then part of the processional and ultimately was the altar-server for the Archbishop of Firenze, holding the communion-plate while the Archbishop passed out the host to communicants at the midnight mass.

Kind of a memorable night.

[electric_blue68]

55. Sounds pretty amazing. A deep experience of people being together in community.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

57. I was having an interesting evening in any case.

The "awe" inspiring effect of the Duomo was serving its intended purpose.

Although I have never believed in divine beings (and still don't) I have found it interesting to study all three of the Abrahamic faiths in a spirit of goodwill.

As I was sitting in the pews, I was contemplating the finest parts of the message of Jesus. The Beatitudes (and such).

I suppose those in the Church organization sensed I was having a bit of an "ecstatic moment," which would be a fair description.

It was quite an experience.

[debm55]

60. In my public high school, we had a class on the writings and teachings of the Abrahamic religions.

It was based on the literature aspect of each. I really enjoyed it and enlightened by some of the parallels between them
Edited

[Just A Box Of Rain]

61. I have found considerable wisdom in each of these faiths.

Along with things I find highly objectionable.

Human beings are complex creatures.

[electric_blue68]

68. I had the best Comparative Religion Course in College 1970!...

We went to a Jewish Temple, a Buddhist Temple, I'm not sure we got to a Hindu Temple - we did read from the Baghava Gita, had a Green Tea Ceremony at Japan House, we didn't get to a Mosque bc we were a mixed group (young men & women) but we did read from The Koran, we visited Dorthy Day's ? Catholic Worker place, and went to our Professor's Quaker Meeting House.
We might have gone to some Protestant church (but at that time that would have been the least interesting to me, I had not yet heard about St John The Divine here in NYC!)

So we read from all the texts.

And he The Quaker was the Draft Counselor for our college!

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Among other things . . . . this:

https://apnews.com/article/baltimore-archdiocese-sex-abuse-report-7d5d3af098da59a1c9313a246566638c

Report details ‘staggering’ church sex abuse in Maryland
By LEA SKENE, BRIAN WITTE and SARAH BRUMFIELD
39 minutes ago

BALTIMORE (AP) — More than 150 Catholic priests and others associated with the Archdiocese of Baltimore sexually abused over 600 children and often escaped accountability, according to a long-awaited state report released Wednesday that revealed the scope of abuse spanning 80 years and accused church leaders of decades of coverups.

The report paints a damning picture of the archdiocese, which is the oldest Roman Catholic diocese in the country and spans much of Maryland. Some parishes, schools and congregations had more than one abuser at the same time — including St. Mark Parish in Catonsville, which had 11 abusers living and working there between 1964 and 2004. One deacon admitted to molesting over 100 children. Another priest was allowed to feign hepatitis treatment and make other excuses to avoid facing abuse allegations.

The Maryland Attorney General’s Office released the findings of their yearslong investigation during Holy Week — considered the most sacred time of year in Christianity ahead of Easter Sunday — and said the number of victims is likely far higher. The report was redacted to protect confidential grand jury materials, meaning the identities of some accused clergy were removed.

“The staggering pervasiveness of the abuse itself underscores the culpability of the Church hierarchy,” the report said. “The sheer number of abusers and victims, the depravity of the abusers’ conduct, and the frequency with which known abusers were given the opportunity to continue preying upon children are astonishing.”

More at the link

[debm55]

73. Thank you Stinky, not only did they abuse children but rhe Archdiocese moved them to other parishes

so they could abuse more kids. Sickening.

[phylny]

29. I grew up Catholic, am now Presbyterian.

I left for three main reasons:

1) I don't believe the Pope is infallible.

2) I don't pray to Mary.

3) I don't believe birth control is wrong.

[Maeve]

30. Raised Methodist, converted to Catholic, no longer attend

Loved the social gospel, left as the RW became more large and in charge. Remain culturally catholic (with Irish overtones) but my Sundays are my own and my money goes to charities that follow my old social justice gospel beliefs

[debm55]

40. Yes, loved the Social Gospel. I just wished when I had questions, that I would have just been told

"I don't know"

[ProfessorGAC]

31. I Fell Away At Lightspeed At 13

I went to a cathedral school. Was a big shot altar boy grades 4-8. Served masses at the bishop's residence. All the pomp of a hundred high masses.
After I graduated I told my parents this was silly & that I had been to church enough for a lifetime.
They weren't happy, but they were realistic enough to know they couldn't force me.
I still went to a catholic high school & 3 of the 4 universities I attended were catholic.
But, I went to church for 3 weddings (one of them, our wedding) & 4 funerals in the intervening 53 years.
I've got a real good story about setting things up for our wedding, but I'll save that for another time.

[debm55]

35. My husband, a Methodist, had to sign a paper that any children would be raised Catholic.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Our Story Is Quite Different

We did none of the things the church required. We got married in the cathedral anyway.
Too long a story for now. Suffice it to say, they can be bullied into not being bullies.

[debm55]

41. Neither of us were Roman Catholic. We were told three weeks before the wedding that we couldn't get

married in a Roman Catholic church. Invitations already sent out. Had to get a special dispensation from Rome.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. Sorry You Fell For Their BS

I guarantee they didn't have to go to Rome.
My mom worked for the diocese from my freshman year of college until, literally, the day she died.
Bishops & auxiliaries have had carte blanche to make those kind of decisions for decades.
They lied to you.

[debm55]

44. Oh, we paid them for the dispensation. I was Byzantine Catholic, but raised as a Roman Catholic.

Husband-Methodist. Really, I wanted an outside wedding, I was told it had to be in a church.

[ProfessorGAC]

46. Bummer

I believe you paid for it. I wouldn't doubt that for a millisecond.
But, you almost certainly paid for the bishop in the big office down the hall to sign off.
They "required" us to attend pre-cana conferences (4), a session on procreation & rhythm, the document on raising kids catholic, and a refresher on the sacraments.
I said no. They said we couldn't get married in the church, if we didn't.
I said "That's fine. Getting married at the courthouse is much cheaper. Could you please tell the bishop he won't be celebrating our wedding mass. "
The priest said "The bishop is planning to preside at your wedding?" I said yes, and we left.
The next day I got a call at work that they have "granted a waiver" to the prenuptial requirements.
The wedding pictures in that cathedral did turn out great!

[hippywife]

32. Stupid rules.

I went to Catholic school for 7 years, until we moved to a town over. Had to go to mass with our class once a week, and parents dropped us off on Sundays, but didn't go themselves. If we ever missed, they were all like, "Don't let your grandmother know we didn't go."

Then at my great uncle's funeral, I learned that he was denied sacraments because he married a divorced woman. This was a man who served in WWII and spent part of it in a Nazi prison camp. And my great aunt was so sweet and loving, very funny, too! We all loved them both so very much. That was it for me, I was out. Parents still made us go to CCD (catechism) once a week for a while, but it was on weekday evenings and I think they just got tired of hauling us and picking us up.

I belonged to a non-dom xian fellowship for several years, then I moved south to the bible belt. These people down here are crazy and their behavior got me to questioning my own beliefs. And, while I met and worked with a lot of lovely actual xians, the answers to my questions just weren't there.

I do admit that when I was a kid, I loved stations of the cross and the smell of the incense, so dramatic for a child, but that'll only get you so far.

On a funny note, I used to watch Chicago Hope religiously (pun sort of intended.) One of the younger doctors asked one of the older ones (can't remember which ones) why he was Episcopalian as opposed to Catholic. He responded that the Episcopal church had all the pageantry, but none of the guilt.

[debm55]

37. We went every day. Yes, at one time, I considered being a Sister of Charity--nursing. I was very

Catholic. I had to laugh at your line from Chicago Hope. Very true.

[rurallib]

33. I think the internet and access to information has had a lot to do with it

Hard to lie to the sheep anymore when they can. check it out easily. All religions are having a hard time standing up to real scrutiny.

Plus I think the portion of catholics supporting right wing politics has. hurt. Pope Benny didn't help.

Me? 12 years of catholic schools and an attempted rape by a priest.

[electric_blue68]

69. I'm sorry you experienced something that hideous.

[MaryMagdaline]

34. Catholics mostly believe in education

Once Catholics get to a certain level of education, whether in Europe, North or South America, they distance themselves from any religion.

[Iris]

64. Excellent point

[Iris]

65. Excellent point

[Mr.Bill]

45. I used to work with an Evangelical Christian.

He used to say Catholic school was where they trained Atheists.

An Atheist myself, who attended grades 1-6 in Catholic school, I notice that many Atheists I meet went to Catholic school. Too many for it to be a coincidence.

[debm55]

48. Mr.Bill, yes. That is why I started the thread. Why is that so. I know many ex Catholics and

nonpractiicing Catholics. As I stated earlier in the thread I was very religious and even wanted to become a nun. But I only know one family of Catholics in my neighbor that go to church on Sunday. What's even stranger is that I don't go expect for Easter and Christmas, but every month I get envelopes stating even if I don't attend, I can still send my envelope in. On last thing, the Diocese of Pittsburgh has been closing churches left and right here. They have merged the churches together. For some folks, they can not get their. What they did was select five parishes and merge them into the one largest and most affluent parish and closed parishes in poorer areas that could not afford to stay open.

[Mr.Bill]

49. It's a money machine,

that's for sure.

[debm55]

50. About 4 years ago, I went every Sunday in a very near poor neighborhood. I liked it. it was small

but the people built a veggie garden and had cook outs, visited the sick and shut ins. However, one Sunday in the Bulletin we were informed that our church would be merged with another small church. Then the next year. that church was merged with another. So now 4 towns have one church. I questioned if they were going to get buses to transport the folks. No response.This happened all over the diocese. People complained. But it continued. The 4 merged chuches had one priest to serve all 4 churches.That didn't work.

[Mr.Bill]

47. Religious philosophy, the T-shirt version:

https://www.northernsun.com/Religions-TShirt-%281432B%29.html

[Iris]

63. For me, it was reading a marriage manual in my 20s that said no intervention

In childbirth to save the life of the mother. If she dies that’s her fate as a childbearer.

It felt like a huge betrayal after being immersed in the 70s church messages of love and compassion

[electric_blue68]

70. Woah! :(

[MaryMagdaline]

71. Unfortunately for my Republican friends I've forgotten everything I learned from the

Catholic Church except the Sermon on the Mount. It’s the bedrock of my atheist faith.

[Tracer]

72. A different take.

I spent 16 years in Catholic schools and was quite the believer when young.

As a young adult I joined our parishes choir and we had a marvelous director whose choice of music was Mozart, Beethoven etc. We tried our best not to massacre that music.

Then ..... she was told to skip the classics and choose music only from the Oregon Catholic Press .... possibly the WORST music ever composed. (There's actually a web site called "bad Catholic Music".)(Funny, funny!)

I stood it for a couple of years and then gave up and stopped going to church entirely. I also felt that if my reason for attending was only for the music and not for the liturgy, then I was being a hypocrit.

[maxsolomon]

75. Raised Catholic, then Guitar Mass Catholic, then Cafeteria Catholic,

then my Grandparents died and my Mom admitted she DGAF. Since she's passed (15 years now) my Dad has a GF, she's a regular churchgoer, and he's gone back.

I ask him what the priest talked about, and he can never remember. He is 86 though. Mostly I think they're about how bad Abortion is.

None of my 3 siblings believe. One married into (reform) Judaism.

The thing that stuck is the ethics. None of us gamble, we try to be kind, we care about the poor. It makes us outliers in our extended family, all of whom still attend, believe, go to casinos, and vote straight GOP.