General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOfficers kill homeowner after responding to wrong address
Officers kill homeowner after responding to wrong addressThe shooting happened around 11:30 p.m. Wednesday. New Mexico State Police released more details late Thursday, and Farmington police confirmed Friday that the three officers involved are on paid administrative leave pending a review of the case.
The officers were not immediately identified, and it wasn't clear what administrative action could be taken.
Body camera footage reviewed by state police shows the homeowner opening the screen door armed with a handgun and that's when officers retreated and fired. Not knowing who was outside, the mans wife returned fire from the doorway and officers fired again.
State police said the woman put down her gun after realizing the individuals outside her home were police officers.
Farmington Police Chief Steve Hebbe said in a social media post that it was a chaotic scene and that more information will be released in the coming week. He called it a dark day for the police force and for the family of homeowner, who was identified as Robert Dotson.
What I will tell you as the chief is that this is an extremely traumatic event and that I am just heartbroken by the circumstances surrounding this, he said. ... This ending is just unbelievably tragic. I am extremely sorry that we are in this position.
Coventina
(29,033 posts)TheBlackAdder
(29,919 posts)Kaleva
(40,106 posts)Retreat to the designated safe room and call 911. If you feel you need a gun for home defense, then a designated safe room goes with that along with reinforced doors. And conduct regular drills covering situations necessitating a retreat to the safe room . Unknown people pounding on your door late at night would be one .
Guns are dangerous.
ruet
(10,172 posts)Kaleva
(40,106 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I mean, 11:30 p.m. on a Wednesday night, who isn't expecting the Welcome Wagon to come banging on your door?
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)the doorr armed.
Too many questions.
MineralMan
(150,423 posts)I don't just go and open the door if someone is banging on it. I look to see who's out there first. If it's cops, I'm not going to be holding a gun in my hand. That's just stupid.
The police shouldn't go to the wrong house. But, they do, more often than people realize. I've had it happen twice to me. I have house numbers on my front wall, and they're lit at night. But, I've had cops come to my door after being at the correct house number, but on the wrong street one time, and after swapping the last two numbers on their warrant and ending up at my house.
It wasn't easy to convince them that they had made a mistake, either. They were dead sure they were at the correct address. Once I got them to understand the mistake, they didn't even apologize. They just left.
But, I did all that through the screen door, after seeing that it was cops. No gun in my hand.
RobinA
(10,461 posts)Answer the door with a gun in your hand and anyone with a gun is liable to shoot you. Maybe it's different in New Mexico.
ruet
(10,172 posts)If they answer while armed, shoot them. Let everyone know how that goes for you. I can't fucking believe DU is backing the blue on this. ...disgraceful.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)there's a lot of "I can't believe" in the last few days.
Coventina
(29,033 posts)It's rather depressing.....
ruet
(10,172 posts)I believe it's a visceral, nonsensical, hatred of guns over EVERYTHING else.
Coventina
(29,033 posts)in the first place?
That's pretty messed up as well!
I don't happen to own a gun (never will), but in the same situation, I'd have my Louisville slugger out, and could just as easily be shot by the cops for having "a deadly weapon."
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)topic, maybe. But there's a lot of WTF threads out there.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Arazi
(8,654 posts)Arazi
(8,654 posts)Or a flashlight.
Or nothing at all.
How about the police just try not shooting first?
XorXor
(690 posts)The police know this. The person did not fire at the police. I don't think they pointed it at them either until the police shot the husband. The police were wrong here, the same as they were wrong in Atatiana Jefferson's, Breonna Taylor's, and that guy in Arizona deaths. I'm sure there are others that didn't get as much attention too.
The police too often take the shoot first and ask questions later approach. It's also not uncommon for them to have an us vs. them my mindset that increases tension that leads to situations like this. I've seen plenty of interactions like the one described here in which the cop didn't kill the person. This cop made poor choices that lead to him killing an innocent person.
sanatanadharma
(4,075 posts)For the USA, another calm day in the death by gun industry; almost survived to tomorrow.
Guns only protect the ones who shoot first. It isn't a permanent protection.
jmowreader
(52,833 posts)answering the door with a gun in your hand when the police are knocking is a sure way to get killed. Cops DO NOT PLAY in this situation.
wnylib
(25,355 posts)jmowreader
(52,833 posts)wnylib
(25,355 posts)there for a casual visit or to borrow a cup of sugar.
You don't know who they are. It's late in the evening. They are not just knocking; they are pounding on the door.
moonscape
(5,621 posts)wnylib
(25,355 posts)But this guy did have a gun, so he carried it to the door with him.
Actually, I question his wisdom in answering with a gun visible. He feared that it was someone dangerous or he would not have had the gun with him. But if it had been someone dangerous (besides the cops), they would have shot him,too, the minute that they saw the gun.
doc03
(38,735 posts)to arrive.
yagotme
(4,126 posts)your call with their call, if the cops are too far from theirs. Aggressive as these cops seem, they might not wait for too long for you to answer, and may force entry anyway.
ecstatic
(34,992 posts)I don't think it's a good idea to answer the door with a gun whether it's a cop or not. We're not in apocalyptic times yet. If I'm that terrified of who is outside, I won't answer, or I can speak to them from my upstairs screened window. I guess things would get tricky if it were unidentified cops and they rammed my door open somehow. But my plan would still be to hide and speak to them that way.
LeftInTX
(34,008 posts)ecstatic
(34,992 posts)America.
lapucelle
(20,925 posts)Body camera footage showed that as the officers backed away from the home, Dotson "opened the screen door armed with a handgun, state police said.
One or more officers fired at least one round, killing Dotson, state police said
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-mexico-police-fatally-shoot-man-approaching-wrong-home-rcna78636
NMSP said the officers went to 5305 Valley View Ave instead of 5308 Valley View Ave.
The homeowner of the incorrect address came to the door as FPD officers identified themselves. The homeowner, identified as 52-year-old Robert Dotson was armed with a handgun when he opened the door.
The wife of Dotson was also armed with a handgun and fired after the initial shooting. FPD officers responded with more gunshots before she realized they were police, according to NMSP.
https://www.koat.com/article/farmington-police-kill-man-wrong-response-location/43535201
lpbk2713
(43,239 posts)"But we thought we we were in danger."
They will get a paid vacation and then everything will be just fine.
RobinA
(10,461 posts)win deadly prizes.
ruet
(10,172 posts)The Police don't have any special dispensation to shoot people on their own property than the average citizen. Are you saying you can knock on a residents door at 11:30 pm then shoot them if they answer while armed? JFC!
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)Did the homeowner know there were police outside? Why answer the door if he's so fearful? It was indeed a stupid game.
Response to Renew Deal (Reply #29)
ruet This message was self-deleted by its author.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)didn't the police identify when he "eventually" answered the door?
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)But I have no idea if the people could hear it or if they looked out the windows.
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17805278
Tribetime
(7,004 posts)I have every right to answer with a gun to protect my house
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)You can also not answer the door.
ruet
(10,172 posts)The person doesn't answer the door. The police, not getting a response to their attempts to communicate, decide to force an entry. The resident is now in full on defense mode, grabs his gun and is killed by the Police anyway. What's the solution here? From what I'm reading it's that no person should have guns. ...period.
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)The best option is to not answer the door unless you know who is outside. If it's the police, you don't need a gun. If it's not the police, don't answer (and maybe call the police). It's not that hard. This person would still be alive if he used common sense. He'd also be alive if the cops didn't screw up twice (wrong door and potentially shooting when there wasn't a threat).
ruet
(10,172 posts)
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)There are options other than opening the door with a gun.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)You bang on the door at 11:30PM on a Wednesday and the safe gets opened and the arming up commences. If the banging stops, the armed investigation starts. And eventually, a door WILL be opened to make sure all is well inside and out. Not sure about you, but banging on my door at 11:30PM no matter what day it is, IS NOT the norm. In fact, it's NEVER happened. So when it does, it WILL be treated as a threat.
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)The cowboy act is pathetic.
Last edited Fri Apr 7, 2023, 04:24 PM - Edit history (3)
I don't start shooting. Neither did the dead homeowner. I agree, the Cowboy act is pathetic. So, how about you give her a little nudge. Tip your hat, and ride on off on your high horse.
ecstatic
(34,992 posts)That's what happens in every horror movie.
Chautauquas
(4,488 posts)for something that never happens.
BlueWaveNeverEnd
(12,396 posts)I peeked out and saw food order left at my door (wrong address). No banging, but the food delivery person could well have knocked also.
Not all nighttime visits are by criminals.
phylny
(8,791 posts)unidentified people knocking, who turned out to be Jehovahs Witnesses). How can i help you?
Late at night, Id use the Ring and call 911, but we have no working guns, just old ones taken apart in the basement.
XorXor
(690 posts)Even if armed. Unless, of course, he answered the door pointing the gun at people. I don't believe that is the case here
Nevilledog
(54,709 posts)inthewind21
(4,616 posts)could possibly go wrong when everyone is armed.
Coventina
(29,033 posts)don't cha know?
Bettie
(19,184 posts)then again, you can get shot if you are armed or if you're sleeping in your bed.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,100 posts)I know how the guy answered the door.
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)There's no reason for the homeowner to answer the door with a gun. I don't know if the homeowner raised his weapon at all but the cops shouldn't start shooting just because he has a gun.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)why not. People walk around Walmart with AR's. But hey, no reason to have one in your hand IN YOUR OWN HOME!
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)Hopefully he wasn't strapped at all times.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)at 11:30 on a Wednesday night they were probably in bed. Maybe not, but that's my bet.
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)Or at least not expecting trouble. But who knows. They might have been sovereign citizen types looking for trouble. Hopefully the video is released.
sarisataka
(22,183 posts)On an erroneous call. They do not ring the bell, nor do they knock gently.
LuckyCharms
(21,243 posts)There's never anything good on the other side.
Those who I need to see have my phone number.
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)It's almost always someone drunk and lost or someone looking for trouble.
LuckyCharms
(21,243 posts)the door.
I was upstairs hitting the bong pretty hard one night. The whole house smelled like weed, and this was before weed was legal in my state.
We have a solid door to the front porch, and then another solid door leading into the home. Both doors are always locked.
Knock on the outer porch door at 10pm.
I yell downstairs DON'T ANSWER IT.
Wife went onto the darkened enclosed front porch. There was a cop at the outer door. She opened up the sliding window and talked to him through the screen, which was at the side of the door. He probably could not see her because the porch has very dark paint on the walls, but she could see him because the motion light was shining on him.
He said "May I come in to talk to you"?
She said "No. What do you need officer"?
Cop started "Do you know anything about a situation next door involving the father and daughter..."
She cut him off and said "No, I have not heard a thing. Have a good night".
LeftInTX
(34,008 posts)about all of this stuff?
How would we know that the world is so much more dangerous than we thought?
Someone caught someone doing something and everyone had all sorts of speculation. It turns out, it wasn't what everyone thought.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,535 posts)They're next step would probably involve kicking the door in, not shrugging and walking away because nobody's home. And certainly not taking the step of double-checking the address, oh noes.
LuckyCharms
(21,243 posts)I guess if I heard cops screaming at me to open the door, I would have stood against the wall at the side of the door and spoken to them without opening the door, hoping I could convince them that they needed to go to the house to the left of me...because there's always cops getting called over there.
But there's no way I would have opened the door.
They would not be able to get in easily. Would take them at least a few kicks, giving me time to sit on the sofa with my hands up. But I'm not voluntarily opening the door for anyone at 11 PM.
WarGamer
(18,199 posts)But in this case, the badge sniffers are wrong.
You DON'T come on an innocent mans property and be surprised if he's armed, with a gun, a bat or a knife.
Maybe he was home after a 14 hour shift and half sleeping?
Maybe he doesn't need to explain himself at all?
A gun in the hand is no excuse to shoot.
Just like the case a few years ago about the young AA man running from cops and "cuz he had a gun in hand" they shot him.
Cops were wrong.
Civil Suit for sure and DA should prosecute.
SYFROYH
(34,213 posts)Lock them up.
stopdiggin
(14,859 posts)with loaded handguns ... OK - what the hell has happened at this address previously?
Not justifying a bad shoot on the part of the cops (which it clearly was), but ...
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)Maybe the cops went there because they've been there before. That's quite the speculation. We need more of this story.
ruet
(10,172 posts)You understand this this right? The homeowner had no expectation that law enforcement would be paying them a visit at 11:30 pm. The homeowner has no obligation to identify who is at their door before answering armed or not. Now you are claiming the victims might have been repeat offenders? You really are on it with this. I'm gonna leave it for a while because I'm about to get myself banned. JFC!!!!
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)Hopefully you're not armed.
The other poster mentioned what happened there previously. I didn't bring that up.
Kaleva
(40,106 posts)Not by law but the by the fact that guns are dangerous which makes it imperative that gun owners place it upon themselves to get the necessary training and to regularly practice that training.
You believe otherwise.
stopdiggin
(14,859 posts)Do these homeowners routinely answer their door as an armed team? That kind of neighborhood? Or that kind of people?
(and, again - not in any way absolving the cops of a miserable f*ck-up)
rsdsharp
(11,664 posts)Highly trained (cough) police officers screw that up with regularity.
In It to Win It
(12,174 posts)pet peeve of mine. I live in a location that google has wrong.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/103812265
ProfessorGAC
(75,549 posts)When we had visitors, an admin assistant would send an email, with numbers (often mine as I hosted a LOT of customer visits at that site), directions from the airport, and a bolded note saying "Do not use GPS apps for this location." We had a few dozen people listen to Google and get hopelessly lost. The place wasn't even hard to find! It was a 150 acre site!
We had people be 3 miles too far east in the middle of a corn field. I can't remember how many people needed to be talked in like an amateur landing an airliner! LOL.
Like I said, we actually added that note to the confirmation email, it happened so often.
Kali
(56,560 posts)they still came all the way in and argued that google said to do it. I think we are going to have to build a completely fake fence and gate that will be more of a PITA for us than anybody.
LeftInTX
(34,008 posts)The map kept saying "You have arrived", but I was in a Social Security parking lot. This went on for a long time, until I gave up. (I volunteer for campaigns).
I finally gave up and went to my next address. Upon arriving in that neighborhood, I found the street and house I was looking for.
When I got home, I found out the SS office had been built in 2011, the street had been cut off from the main road and divided into two dead ends.
This was not reflected on the map
sarisataka
(22,183 posts)Stupid victim, it's his own fault...
Just a typical upside down day here. I wish I could say I'm surprised but it is just another point of confirmation.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,341 posts)Pew pew pew
Coventina
(29,033 posts)Bettie
(19,184 posts)and it is a fairly recent development.
I don't have a gun, like you, we have a baseball bat and a BIG, barky dog...though the little dog is the more dangerous of the two, he's an ankle biter if he thinks someone is a threat...though, he only has about four teeth left, so not so dangerous.
In any case, this guy did nothing that should have ended in his death...as much as I think there are too many guns out there, he didn't deserve immediate execution for having a gun.
doc03
(38,735 posts)your hand, that is not a reason for cops to open fire.
stopdiggin
(14,859 posts)which doesn't change the fact that it increases the danger to yourself (and potentially others within your domicile). So - go ahead and do, 'stand my ground.'
But, (IMO) - ain't too bright.
Jedi Guy
(3,392 posts)And that scenario is: Mr. Dotson pointed the gun at the officer(s) after opening the door. Even then, there are situational variables in play. Did the officers identify themselves as police? Was there any communication at all between them by speaking through the door? How much time elapsed between the door opening and shots being fired? Was there any communication (or attempt to communicate) after the door opened?
If Mr. Dotson pointed the gun at the officer(s), I predict a civil suit and/or settlement from the city and no criminal charges against the officer(s). Even in this scenario, there could well be other factors that skew towards charges being filed.
If Mr. Dotson didn't point the gun at the officer(s), I predict a civil suit and/or settlement from the city and criminal charges against the officer(s), probably involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, or something along those lines.
I'm curious to see what the bodycam footage shows, but I'm going to say it's very likely the cops are at fault here. We shall see.
Nevilledog
(54,709 posts)
Jedi Guy
(3,392 posts)I guess we'll see what the investigation turns up, because I've got nothin'. Thanks for the additional info!
Solomon
(12,627 posts)and thought someone was coming for him too and that's why he had a gun in hand and his wife did too.
Kaleva
(40,106 posts)In a self defense situation, you either try to maintain or increase the distance between you and the possible bad guy(s). You don't close the distance like the homeowner did.
gulliver
(13,682 posts)Thanks for posting it.
It absolutely possible for there to be a perfect storm of coincidences. But this does point to a bigger picture. Who made the phone call? Was it "swatting?" What did Dotson know, and so forth...
The leap to the anti-cop trope conclusion, as usual, gives those fixated on that particular conclusion an opportunity to ask themselves why they leapt to it. Is the reason valid or just bias?
likesmountains 52
(4,247 posts)Lots of Trump/Pence signs still up. A giant gas well servicing company as a huge sign on the main drag through town stating UNAPOLOGETIC TRUMP SUPPORTER . I'm willing to bet most of the population is armed to the teeth. A sad, sad, scenario for all involved.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)V.P. BIDEN: Well, the way in which we measure it isI think most scholars would sayis that as long as you have a weapon sufficient to be able to provide your self-defense. I did one of these town-hall meetings on the Internet and one guy said, Well, what happens when the end days come? What happens when theres the earthquake? I live in California, and I have to protect myself.
I said, Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door. Most people can handle a shotgun a hell of a lot better than they can a semiautomatic weapon in terms of both their aim and in terms of their ability to deter people coming. We can argue whether thats true or not, but it is no argument that, for example, a shotgun could do the same job of protecting you. Now, granted, you can come back and say, Well, a machine gun could do a better job of protecting me. No ones arguing we should make machine guns legal.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/guns/2013/02/gun-control-joe-biden-interview/
ecstatic
(34,992 posts)Come on now.
hardluck
(751 posts)Seriously. Some very whacked takes on this.
Kaleva
(40,106 posts)The deceased would probably be alive today if he didn't have a gun. His actions go against what all reputable organizations or individuals teach about what to do in such a situation. I'm unaware of any that would say the gun owners actions were correct
Guns are dangerous.
bluedigger
(17,372 posts)The cops should not have shot the homeowner. The homeowner would most likely still be alive had he not answered the door armed.
Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)I haven't seen anything up to this point about what caused the cops to shoot. Did they see the gun and start shooting or did it point it at them? There is video that hopefully gets released.
hardluck
(751 posts)There just seems to be a level of glee, or at least indifference in this shooting that you dont see in other posts on police shootings.
Or it might have been that I was tired from being up 20 hours before posting.
Kaleva
(40,106 posts)I don't know all that went on between the police and the homeowner and the video (s) won't be released for about a week or more so I'm refraining from expressing an opinion on that at this time.
We do know the police went to the wrong address and I'm very sure that the homeowner lacked training or had ignored it.. Had the police not screwed up and had gone to the correct address and had the homeowner had the proper training, this wouldn't have happened .
My view is that considering how dangerous guns are, those have one or who plan to get one should know that extensive training goes with that. Or at least it should as many states are removing training requirements for concealed carry and I don't know of any state that requires such for having a gun restricted to home defense only .
What bothers me the most are gun owners who don't secure their guns and a child finds it and either accidently kills himself or a sibling or a friend. I'm s member of the Michigan chapter of Moms Demand Action and we work to raise awareness on the need for proper gun storage .
Quixote1818
(31,115 posts)Renew Deal
(84,613 posts)Video shows a shooting:
sarisataka
(22,183 posts)Here is the time line I came up with
0:00-1:18 no picture or sound
@1:50 officers knock at door. They say "Police Department" quietly
@2:21 louder knock. Nothing said
@2:33 someone says "Farmington police" at conversational volume
@3:04 dispatch on radio heard "confirming no one is at thevdoor"
@3:14 3rd knock. "Farmington police" announced louder than previously
@3:33 the officers begin to realize that are at the wrong home
@3:46 dispatch confirms the correct address, the cops know this is the wrong house a joke about the mistake.
@3:55 they step away from the door
@3:57 home owner comes to door.
@3:58 Cops say "Hey, hey" and shine flashlights in his face. Home owner turns towards officers moving his gun in their direction. Police begin shooting.
@4:00 last shot, of 7-8, fired. At least 2 of 3 officers fired. Officers move to edge of property.
@4:38 officers start moving back towars door, stated the man they shot went down
@4:46 a woman's voice can be heard in house
@4:48 police yell hand up. Woman says "oh my God. Why?" and begins screaming.
@4:51 officer wearing body cam says "please don't" to self. They yells "Ma'am" towards house. Further words lost in beginning of gunfire.
@4:52-4:55 woman and police exchange fire.
@4:57-5:05 police move to cover and call for more units. Woman continues screaming
@5:09 an officer shouts "it's the police"