General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat good does the constant blaming of voters (or non-voters) do?
Why do some people here insist on continuing to make posts re-blaming/shaming/calling out people who probably aren't even on this website? Or if they are, who aren't likely to change their ways?
Is this just a way to try and flush out "traitors"? Or is it a form of self-aggrandizement? Maybe some people just can't get over it?
I'm truly curious about one other thing: Why are the voters who either stayed home or didn't vote for Dukakis in 1988 not blamed for the beginning of the Bush era? I voted for Dukakis. I don't perennially post OPs complaining about the apparent lack of enthusiasm among Democratic or Dem-leaning people back then. And what good would it do me or the Democratic party in general if I did?
Just seems ridiculously petty and bitter.
Yes, I know about the ignore function. I suppose I could use it more often. Just wanted to say how ridiculous it looks to me.
Silent3
(15,909 posts)This is a discussion board. It's people talking about what they think and how they feel. Sometime people just vent their feelings. There's no requirement that every post be formulated to maximize possible public political benefit.
What's so hard to understand about that?
OAITW r.2.0
(27,155 posts)Not our fault on DU.
What do you suggest as a reasonable response to unreasonable people?
Autumn
(45,803 posts)that politician, that politician doesn't represent their values, or that politician has not done enough to earn their vote. Our country has two parties. Democrats/Liberals and Republicans/Conservatives. I'm not going to vote for any Conservative and I'm adult enough and smart enough to realize Conservatives aren't going to vote for a Liberal, unless the Republican party runs someone so completely odious like Trump. 2020 was an aberration, Trump was that fucking bad that I know several Conservatives that voted for Biden, holding their nose all the way.
LakeArenal
(29,553 posts)Because some really do see the glass half empty.
Because some refuse to see what voters have done in Kansas, Wisconsin and Michigan.
It isnt any worse than lectures about Trump has got to Go on DU. Preaching to the choir.
RockRaven
(15,933 posts)Probably because they are very distressed by the consequences of what happened.
BlueWaveNeverEnd
(9,624 posts)Lunabell
(6,519 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 8, 2023, 02:19 AM - Edit history (1)
But, they're just angry and venting. What's going on is a direct result of HRC losing in '16. But, in my opinion, it doesn't do any good to ruminate the past. We MUST look for solutions.
Until then, I guess people will just continue to vent, rant and rave rather than offer up a solution to the problems going forth.
murielm99
(31,219 posts)do offer up solutions. Many of us are activists. Some of us have found places as election workers. We write LTTEs, call and write our representatives, attend town halls or hold elected positions such as precinct committeemen. We are on school boards, library boards or county boards. A lot of the people here would not be active if they had not found DU.
I am often critical of what I see here, too. But DU is doing some good for some of us.
Lunabell
(6,519 posts)That's exactly what they did to HRC. Pure unadulterated misogyny and it worked in '16. And, gawd help me, susan sarandon needs to be, well, I can't say it here. Too violent.
Cha
(302,866 posts)as a direct Cause of what's happening in our country now.
Thank Goodness most on this forum want to Discuss it and not Ignore the history.
Stein Lied in Swing States Claiming there was no Difference between Hillary & Putin's Puppet.
Link to tweet
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)who made a mistake that's done great harm to everyone, but who don't believe it and haven't changed. We're not angry at those who've since committed firmly with Democrats against the great threat, we're afraid because of those who haven't. At those who still, unbelievably, don't know we're good guys, and the only ones who can save our nation.
We ALL were done great harm by anti-Democratic deceits, and we SHOULD be angry. But together. Perniciously divided by lies meant to defeat us in 2016, we fell. United we're the majority, but every vote is needed.
So, of course it's important not to ignore the danger that some will once again be deceived into not voting their principles. Those who come here, even more than everyone else, need DU to be a safe place where they hear truth about us. And hopefully come to be rightfully angry themselves at the vote-suppressing deceits still being spread by the same people for the same purposes.
Sympthsical
(9,870 posts)That certain choices that were made were perhaps not very good ones. And someone needs to be blamed for it all.
Why not make it useful? Use blame for an already disliked group to extirpate personal accountability for various decisions made.
It's win all around.
If I must blame groups for anything, I always go for Republicans and non-voters. There's literally a hundred and fifty million or so more of them than Stein voters or Bernie Bros.
It isn't about true things. It's about perpetuating the battle of who should be running things.
But I see how they get blended together.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I always assume that the person is just blowing off steam, but your second paragraph is probably equally true. Sometimes they'e funny to read, but to me they seem kind of sad.
To constantly rend one's garments and shriek about some long-ago wrongdoing is so utterly useless. I prefer to look ahead.
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)to be angry about it...and I am.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)Who didn't treat me when I miscarried..waiting for hormones to drop. I had a scan and everything was over...no heartbeat no fetus. I hemorrhaged in my kitchen four days after I began spotting. I had three small kids. My son ran to a neighbor who drove me to the hospital. I lived in near Atlanta and traffic is awful...it was quicker than calling an ambulance. My holy doctor put me in a room with no IV and no treatment of any kind and no call button while he checked those pesky hormones.
Lucky for me, hubs who was traveling got on a plane when I called that morning before I hemorrhaged and told him I was in trouble. He arrived to find me unconscious and laying in a pool of blood. There was blood everywhere on the floor on the bed. He screamed bloody murder and fired the doctor. A young resident saved my life. I was infertile at that point thanks to this shitty doctor. I needed multiple transfusions and platelets...spent three weeks in the hospital in the maternity ward which was torture. I have not been able to donate blood since. So, I despise those who claim to be on our side and yet helped elect Trump. It is inexcusable and unforgivable. Hillary was our only chance to prevent the misery that Trump inflicted on this country. More women will die now. Had the Georgia law been in effect when I miscarried, I doubt I would be here today.
RandiFan1290
(6,331 posts)betsuni
(27,095 posts)Scrivener7
(52,118 posts)Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)Scrivener7
(52,118 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I can think of one who is still here, but he seems to keep a relatively low profile since that time.
I've seen no one call to primary Joe or speak against Kamela.
I do remember the Hillary-haters, but if they're here, they keep that shit on the DL.
demmiblue
(37,658 posts)And always the same people over and over again.
MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)Just saying.
Paladin
(28,614 posts)Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)maxrandb
(15,748 posts)Maybe it's to encourage people on this forum to go out and talk to their family, friends, co-workers, neighbors and social groups about the importance of voting.
Maybe it's to point out how differently things would be if we truly realized that we are in a war for the very soul of our nation and we need to act like it.
It is very much like telling people they shouldn't drink a 5TH of vodka and get behind the wheel of a car.
We are seriously at a point where there is an obvious choice. Our weapon in this war is either going to be a peaceful vote, or violence and blood, because that is where the other party is pushing us.
Women and girls are dying, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.
Elementary School children are being slaughtered, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.
People are not safe at school, at work, at the movies, at a restaurant, in a state capitol, at a parade, at a concert, at a pizza place, in a church, synagogue or mosque, at a Walmart, on a highway, at a dance studio...etc., to infinity, because people did not vote or take their vote seriously.
Law enforcement is murdering people in the streets, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.
Racism, fascism, misogyny, hatred and white supremacy are flourishing in this country, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.
Maybe it's to encourage people to vote while they still can, because the alternative is unthinkable.
sheshe2
(86,103 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,383 posts)within community guidelines. #1 Sometimes people just like to vent and get things off their chests...just like I just did.
WhiskeyGrinder
(23,390 posts)maxrandb
(15,748 posts)Is like arguing that the Civil War was unnecessary because "slavery was eventually going to end anyway"
CTyankee
(64,542 posts)you can still VOTE, dammit!
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)member of that group.
From a sociological perspective, people compete for status within a group.
On DU, people often post to show they are the truest Democrat, the most knowledgeable, the most moral, the most condescending, and the most needy of attention.
OPs that blame and shame others for Hillary's loss are a recurring theme and an easy way to create a popular thread.
Of course it really sucked and was quite world-changing that she lost. And there are various reasons we can point to. Saying she needed more voters from the far left is obvious. Blaming them is not useful. A conversation about how to get those votes could be more productive.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Nailed it.
ProfessorGAC
(68,547 posts)You & the poster are engaging in 2 dimensional thinking (when the variables are far more numerous) & an unattractive smugness.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Since you are a "professor", you no doubt are more intelligent than I.
I must bow to your personal insult.
Though I've found, over the years, that those who resort to personal attacks are usually on the losing side of a "two dimensional" argument in thinking.
ProfessorGAC
(68,547 posts)Don't want to be called smug? Don't act smug.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)A sparkling riposte, sir!
MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)Sometimes you can't get to the how to be better part without looking back at what went wrong.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)My post is about why people suddenly make a new OP about old issues that already won, lost, or remain contentious. It was the subject of this particular OP.
MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)understand. In light of events over the years, but in the last seven years in particular.
Each time fascism takes a step forward, expect to hear about it again. Because we have another huge election coming up with people already suggesting we primary Biden.
We probably can't be reminded often enough of history in hopes that we don't see any repeats of what led us to where we are now.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)The OP is specifically about blame-shaming far-left voters.
I see no need to have further discussion about Hillary's loss from OPs that read like outbursts and state obvious points.
If we want their votes, we must attract them.
I find your post to be laughably condescending. It won't stick to me.
MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)If you see no need to further have those discussions, don't participate in those discussions then. Pretty simple.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)I find discussions of Hillary's loss to be trite. It's the same points over and over again. It was Comey's fault, Bernie's fault, the voters' fault, the media's fault, etc. The reality is it was all at fault and came together as a perfect-enough storm to trash our government.
If you would like to discuss fascism per se, start an OP.
My beloved neighbor, Ben Ferencz has died. He was a champion against fascism. You and I are pipsqueeks fighting over the meaning of words, on subjects where we fully agree.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217808678
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)Button and the trash function for posts that don't interest you... I find your almost, well attack on another poster curious.
And I see a hint of the old excuses about not voting for Hillary in 16...such as Hillary needed to 'earn' votes in the General and others. Sorry Hillary was the only one who could have stopped Trump. He has unleashed hell on this country.
And there can be no excuse for not voting for Hillary in the General. Any attempt to justify this attitude seems an attempt to rewrite history.
And I see a more than a few posts which suggest primarying President Biden or the old BS about Democratic candidates somehow not earning votes in the General. Everytime a sitting president is primaried, we lose the General election. Vote Demoratic in a General always or the GOP wins. And never support third parties or primary a sitting president or again the GOP wins which likely would be the end of our Republic.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)Time and again you post just to prove you are a righteous member of a group.
Nice user name.
You have a need to be right, so you post strawman arguments. You supply no useful info.
Nothing in your posts relate to the OP. You just want to argue about things we all agree on.
There are no serious posts on DU suggesting primarying Biden. This is in your mind. A few trolls have you riled up.
Put up or shut up. Show me a post!
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)you really won't listen. Let me make it clear...some on our side particularly the Greens and some others helped Trump win and Hillary lose in 16. I have seen questionable posts already. So I think some may need a reminder of the disaster that was 16...it didn't have to be that way. And you don't agree with me as I see nothing wrong with this post. And if I didn't like it. I would trash it. I certainly would not say it needs to be taken down because it doesn't.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I haven't seen those.
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217579135
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217595486
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217723217
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217682216#post39
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216616727
Go through Google.
MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)The OP asked what good they do. You made some snarky reply. I stated what good I think they do. Now you wanna try to tell me I cant talk about that either?
Lol.
Get real.
Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #46)
Post removed
MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)Reminds me why we have those OPs.
Cha
(302,866 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)Cha
(302,866 posts)We Got to This Place in History.
And, that Includes 3rd Party LIES In the Swing States that Hillary and trump were the same.
Link to tweet
LetMyPeopleVote
(152,093 posts)I was on the Clinton Victory Counsel team and was a Clinton delegate to the Philadelphia National Convention. Control of the SCOTUS was on the ballot and we are living with the consequences of people who decided that control of the courts was not an important issue.
Link to tweet
We lost Roe v. Wade due to TFG being able to appoint 3 judges to the SCOTUS. Now the asshole judges that TFG was able to appoint are pushing the concept of fetal personhood through the courts
Link to tweet
You may not think these issues are important but many of us do.
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)on the left and the Green asshats not worked in rust-belt states to defeat her. She barely lost the General but we the people lost everything. We were told by that moron Brianna Grey that courts didn't matter and that Trump would be better than Hillary. And some complete fools believed this tripe. Now we have lost Roe and our Republic barely survived an insurrection on January 6th, 2021. LGBTQ, people of color, and women are under Attack.
And states have become increasingly fascist as has the Republic Party. Twice in my lifetime...those on our side have helped elect Republicans... the first time was in 2000 when Gore lost...Bush gave us endless war and ultimately economic collapse. The second time was in 2016. And Trump literally killed millions of Americans with Covid, deregulated, and passed more tax cuts. He stole migrant kids from their families many of who are no doubt working in righty state slaughterhouses today. His last act was an attempt to overthrow our Republic. I will never forget or forgive.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)Rather, I'd say from your post, you have made my point. You have fallen right into this "sociological" pit.
If I tell you that "you are a truer, bluer Democrat than many" would it make you feel good?
How dare you be condescending! Don't talk to me as if I didn't vote for her.
Cha
(302,866 posts)She's a Valued member of this board.
She deserves to be Praised.
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)Cha
(302,866 posts)demmiblue
(37,658 posts)SYFROYH
(34,200 posts)There was a tremendous amount of hubris among the "good" Democrats who grew weary of the unhappy lefties voicing their opinion. They just wouldn't shut up and commit to HRC.
So they effed-off.
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)the General. I hope you are wrong and unhappy lefties didn't let us down and cause us to lose Roe, and almost lose our Republic.
lapucelle
(19,495 posts)to do the right thing is to remind them of the consequences of the 2000 and 2016 elections. Too bad that a gentle FAFO doesn't seem to work on those folks.
Third party voters and those who "protested" by staying home fancied themselves as morally superior in both 2000 and 2016. How many times were Democrats subjected to the bleating refrain "the lesser of two evils is still evil", as if Al Gore and Hillary Clinton were objectively even remotely evil? Which Democrat is going to be next on their "apocryphally evil" list?
We all have to live with the consequences of the 2000 and 2016 elections. Third party voters and those who couldn't bother to vote have to live with the personal consequences of their decisions.
Democrats don't want it to happen a third time in this relatively young century.
edhopper
(34,433 posts)with what we on this board do or should do.
Sometimes we just talk about the country as a whole and what we see.
Under your narrow limits to DU discussion, we should never discuss what Tucker Carlson said, since we don't listen to him.
Or what any GOP idiot from a deep Red district says or does, since we can't vote them out.
What about discussing foreign leaders?
DU is an open forum for like minded Democrats.
And FYI the voters are to blame for giving us Trump and the GOP Congress as well as the fascist States we have to deal with.
treestar
(82,383 posts)they all have a choice whether to register or not, whether to vote or not, or who to vote for.
We all have a duty to vote. We should not demand our vote be "earned" as we have to make a choice, choosing that none of the "earned" my vote and therefore not voting is me not participating and then blaming whoever for Republican wins.
Those who don't vote are the problem. They think they are above it all.
How to convince them is a different story, and we don't have enough about that, maybe we are not sure what to do. But it might mean giving up a lot of our purist attitudes.
Blaming the media happens and it is understandable, but yet the voters don't have to let them media lead them by the nose.
There's not enough emphasis on the responsibility of participating in self government. Being lazy, above it all, or complacent is the issue. DUers may not be and feel too much falls on them.
Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)that some would vote for Marriane whatever the hell her name is or Kennedy who is an anti-vaxer who was encouraged to run by his best bud Bannon. I would hope that people would understand how important it is to support an incumbent Democratic president.
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #28)
Post removed
ornotna
(11,008 posts)Trash thread is your friend.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...as long as they don't insist that we forget about trying to win them back.
betsuni
(27,095 posts)This is, after all, a forum for supporters of the Democratic Party.
Midwestern Democrat
(820 posts)television producer blaming the audience for the cancellation of his series. It would be equally asinine for a political party to blame the electorate for an election loss. The businessman, the TV producer, and the political party has to deal with the customer base/audience/electorate THAT EXISTS not the one THAT THEY WISH EXISTED.
MrsCoffee
(5,812 posts)It was basically arson with several entities at once pouring fuel on the fire.
None of them get a pass. Especially those who planted those lies and doubts.
The fact that the business owner was still able to outsell the competition by millions should demonstrably show that the business itself was rock solid.
Investigation into arson is always vital.
sheshe2
(86,103 posts)ecstatic
(34,003 posts)We've lost rights. History is being erased. The GOP is lawless with impunity. Insurrectionists are still free. It's not clear what direction this country is headed in or if we can stop the creeping fascism.
So yeah, it's easy to turn to the blame game in times like this. I'm sure I've done it as well. People have to channel their anger somewhere. Maybe posting about it is therapeutic and helps relieve some of the tension and anger.
You're right though, the blame game is not helpful or productive, but neither is calling people out on it. Instead of turning on each other, I think it would be more productive for us to figure out a way to regroup, organize and channel our frustrations into something useful. Marching orders. We don't have to wait until next year to get started:
https://events.democrats.org/
https://resist.bot/
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)voters who would send many of the folks here on du to prison or worse without raising an eyebrow.
Home grown atrocities do not occur in a vacuum
Do i trust republicans? oh hell no
and they do not trust me either.
I do not give them a pass for electing the vermin they do
nini
(16,686 posts)If people dont wake up and vote even if their preferred candidate isnt the nominee this country is going to continue to slide into full blown fascism. Expecting fellow citizens to not take Democracy for granted is the battle of our lifetimes and venting about it is ok.
So yea Ill be petty and bitter, and be concerned some arent doing enough.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)It's not like it's over. 2016 is still unfolding, and the same bad actors are still seeking out victims to deceive about who we are and what we believe in.
There even really are people who, against all evidence, STILL believe Democrats are mostly the same as Republicans. Now events have forced tweaking the message to "Republicans are worse," but both are STILL bad, betraying choices.
The old "tell a lie often enough..."? Someone they should have been able to trust to tell them truth instead told them that every day for years and it took. As we were forced to witness.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Demsrule86
(70,663 posts)betsuni
(27,095 posts)Then European countries have to remind them: Ahem, we're not socialist, duh, we're capitalist too. Stop daydreaming.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The very idea that the enviable post-work lifestyles the French are fighting to keep from being shortened by even two years could be supported by a socialist economy...
We should be moving toward the social policies of Europe's advanced liberal democracies. By voting to give them to ourselves.