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(2,472 posts)
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 12:40 PM Apr 2023

After Sandy Hook, gun control looked inevitable. What happened?

Public opinion for gun control was very strong after the slaughter of children and teachers.

But the NRA was focus testing messages, I'd guess. The word that turned it around? Freedom. Once they started to talk about the personal freedom issue, things quickly swung away from controlling guns in spite of the horrific killings. Americans across the political spectrum are primed to value freedom. Polling shows freedom ranks 22 points above the value of justice.

Guess which party knows that and which one doesn't? (I knew you could.)

"Freedom" is used as a cover-all issue for Republicans. As they impose on the "freedoms" of the rest of America." (thanks, Kentuck).

They certainly used the message of freedom effectively with masks and the COVID vaccine.

Knowing that, what freedoms can gun control advocates claim? How about the freedom to be safe in our schools, banks, movies, concerts, churches, streets? Freedom to live in a society that is not the Wild Wild West or that is without the rule of law.

Freedom for your children to not be taken away from their families over transgender treatment. Freedom to make medical decisions for your children in the area of transgender care following medical advice. Freedom for transgender children from bullying. Freedom for teachers to refrain from "outing" children who may be LBGTQiA to parents or others.

Better than the justice argument on abortion, how about keeping the freedom to decide what our own lives are going to be like, freedom to decide whether and when to be a parent, freedom not to be forced to carry our rapist's baby, freedom to create the life we dream of?

After Sandy Hook, gun control looked inevitable. What happened? (Original Post) summer_in_TX Apr 2023 OP
America? Freedom? Marcus IM Apr 2023 #1
What happened? MyOwnPeace Apr 2023 #2
Anybody Who Thought RobinA Apr 2023 #3
Gun Control didn't "look inevitable" after Sandy Hook. Not for a minute. maxsolomon Apr 2023 #4
Hubris. SYFROYH Apr 2023 #5
Gun bans are very iffy, and pursuing them keeps summer_in_TX Apr 2023 #10
I can gue$$. Sneederbunk Apr 2023 #6
Polls can't guage level of enthusiasm for a cause Kaleva Apr 2023 #7
"Freedom", you use that word but I don't think it means what you think" sanatanadharma Apr 2023 #8
Could you explain? summer_in_TX Apr 2023 #11
I have been listening to the explanation for more than 12 years, explaning is not easy sanatanadharma Apr 2023 #12
Freedom in that sense comes through satyagraha. summer_in_TX Apr 2023 #13
Two things happened sarisataka Apr 2023 #9
Sociopathic Republicans happened? n/t Just_Vote_Dem Apr 2023 #14


(16,760 posts)
2. What happened?
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 12:49 PM
Apr 2023

RepubliKKKans and their Subpreme Court...... THEY get what THEY want - not what America wants...


(32,085 posts)
4. Gun Control didn't "look inevitable" after Sandy Hook. Not for a minute.
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 12:50 PM
Apr 2023

It looked POPULAR.

It also looked improbable. The GQP and Gunner Orgs had long before committed to a strategy of liberalizing Gun Regs as far as possible. That project continues, and it has only had successes.


(33,931 posts)
5. Hubris.
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 12:51 PM
Apr 2023

I think that as long as gun bans are on the table, there will be nothing but resistance to most gun control efforts because gun bans are the ultimate goal of many gun control advocates.

Some federal legislation passed recently because gun bans were not part of the package.


(2,472 posts)
10. Gun bans are very iffy, and pursuing them keeps
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 08:26 PM
Apr 2023

the focus off policies that might actually have a chance to be enacted. So I agree.

But smaller actions can work to stanch the gun violence. It might help in certain legislatures to introduce them in separate legislation.

Violent history checks. You may know it as background checks, but that doesn't get widespread agreement across the political spectrum, even though the majority of Americans support them. Maybe the issue is concern that it could be a fishing trip. Violent history checks implies it's limited to specific behaviors - dating or spousal abuse, child abuse, assault, killing/torturing animals, gang and maybe, just maybe, paramilitary membership, suicide attempts or threats, etc.

Mandating those with firearms carry insurance on them (higher rates for households with children) – with discounts for those who store them safely, for taking handgun safety courses, and courses on how to ensure safe practices in homes with children that would raise ) are within the realm of possibility, I would guess. Fines and increased insurance rates for reckless behavior (leaving them in any unsecured place whether in the home or elsewhere) might encourage responsible gun ownership.

Incremental and not fully satisfactory, but it looks like some forward movement would be possible.


(35,794 posts)
7. Polls can't guage level of enthusiasm for a cause
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 01:16 PM
Apr 2023

Last edited Wed Apr 12, 2023, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Back in the 60s, students took over parts of university's, there were marches and riots .

Today there are angry posts on social media


(3,449 posts)
8. "Freedom", you use that word but I don't think it means what you think"
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 01:36 PM
Apr 2023

(addressed to those unlikely reading this)

There are two widely misunderstood words, two meanings, two labels for states or conditions or particular circumstances.
The words 'freedom' and 'self' both cause confusion.
Even Confucius knew this.


(3,449 posts)
12. I have been listening to the explanation for more than 12 years, explaning is not easy
Thu Apr 13, 2023, 08:01 AM
Apr 2023

This is a condensed cliff-notes summary to a Zen koan.

How long or how much 'freedom' does one want?
Will freedom for a day satisfy? A week?, Year?, Decade?
How much or what is freedom?
Is it ok to be free to choose one's shoes but nothing else?
We want freedom always. We don''t want to be limited at all.

Who wants the freedom, the self or another?
How long does the self last?
How can a limited self have limitless freedom?

Gandhi claimed total freedom for his 'self' during years of being locked up in jails.


(2,472 posts)
13. Freedom in that sense comes through satyagraha.
Thu Apr 13, 2023, 04:31 PM
Apr 2023

No one can stop that even when one's body is confined to prison.

But freedom as the Declaration of Independence meant it seems to me the ability to make decisions for oneself, to think, speak, and act as a thinking individual with decision-making power and agency.


(17,348 posts)
9. Two things happened
Wed Apr 12, 2023, 01:37 PM
Apr 2023

One was a strategic error by Biden's team that was appointed by Obama. They waited and let the NRA speak last. While it was important to get multiple viewpoints by letting them be the last up they could see what everyone else had said before considering their statement. In addition the delay allowed the initial shock to wear off and they could see the level of commitment to change.
Thus they came up with the infamous "...Good guy with a gun"

Second was Sen Feinstein undercutting the efforts led by the President and Vice President. Rather than combining efforts she released her own proposal which was essentially a modified version of the 1994 legislation. Not only did this take away from the other actions, it provided grist for the mill of 'they want to ban all guns'.

An opportunity was lost.

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