Minneapolis OKs dawn Muslim prayer call, 1st for big US city

[dalton99a]

https://apnews.com/article/muslim-prayers-minneapolis-6bc3fe5ca2eb7436fbdf417481821277

Minneapolis OKs dawn Muslim prayer call, 1st for big US city

MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. (AP) — Minneapolis will allow broadcasts of the Muslim call to prayer at all hours, becoming the first major U.S. city to allow the announcement or “adhan” to be heard over speakers five times a day, year-round.

The Minneapolis City Council unanimously agreed Thursday to amend the city’s noise ordinance, which had prevented dawn and late evening calls at certain times of the year due to noise restrictions, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported. The vote came during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

“The Constitution doesn’t sleep at night,” said Jaylani Hussein, executive director of the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, after the vote. He said the action in Minneapolis shows the world that a “nation founded on freedom of religion makes good on its promise.”

Minneapolis has had a flourishing population of East African immigrants since at least the 1990s, and mosques now are common. Three of 13 members of the council identify as Muslim. The decision drew no organized community opposition. Mayor Jacob Frey is expected to sign the measure next week.

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Too bad the Church of Satan doesn't have something similar (or the Church of Cannabis)

[LakeArenal]

1. Although I'm an atheist, this makes me happy.

[msongs]

2. so is broadcasting beer commercials 5X a day ok too? nt

[edisdead]

3. No thanks.

Sorry yer free to practice your religion. I do not need it blaring from loudspeakers. And before anyone says it, the church bells can stfu too.

[Arthur_Frain]

17. Always thought an actual individual in the minaret calling to prayer would be quaint.

Visited enough countries where the reality of the canned recording blared at distortion levels made it hell on earth.

[Takket]

4. i hope this is only audible in areas of people that actually want to hear it

because if non-Muslims are going to have to listen to this in their homes 5 times a day, I disagree with that.

[roamer65]

5. This violates people's right to freedom FROM religion.

The best way would have been to eliminate any loud outdoor sounds emanating from a house of worship.

[Abolishinist]

6. Exactly. One part of being a good neighbor means not

imposing one's religious practices on others. We were in Jerusalem several years ago, and every morning around 5:30 am you could hear the call to prayer from multiple locations. Although annoying, it was only for several days, so I chalked it up as being part of our travel 'experience', along with the Sabbath elevators in our hotel, programmed to stop on every floor during this time (NOT annoying).

I can't imagine anyone outside of some religious types wanting this.

[MineralMan]

7. This is an excellent test of who's truly woke and who ain't.

As an atheist who lives directly across the street from a large Catholic church with real bells in its steeple, I've heard all sorts of responses from my neighbors in the townhome development where I live. Personally, I don't mind that the bells toll the Angelus every day at noon. They also ring after each mass - during the daylight hours. They don't ring for the 6:30 AM mass on Fridays, nor at the 8:30 AM mass on Sunday. Nevertheless, there are folks in my development who hate hearing those bells.

Not me. I don't mind. When I was stationed for 15 months on the Black Sea coast while in the USAF, my barracks room window looked out over a valley. About 200 yards from that window was a mosque. The call to prayer was broadcast over loudspeakers five times a day, the entire time I was there. I was surprised the first time I heard that, and it annoyed the crap out of a lot of guys in that barracks.

Not me. I actually believe that people should worship as their religious beliefs teach. So, as a guest in that city in Turkey, I accepted that sound five times a day as part of the culture around me. Over time, it became not only tolerable, but even welcome, as I could count on it as an alarm clock, when needed.

Clearly, since there is a Catholic church with bells that is very well-attended, it is part of the culture of the place I live now. In the Twin Cities, Muslims live in several parts of the community, most often choosing to live in areas where other Muslims live. Not surprisingly, the mosques where they worship are in those places. There are a bunch of mosques here. So, that is also part of the culture where I live. As when I lived in Turkey, I accept that as important to many people living nearby, so I don't object.

Minneapolis and St. Paul are very diverse cities, and so are the nearby suburbs. We are fortunate to have such a diverse cultural mix where we live. Everyone has the right to worship as they see fit or, as in my case, not to worship at all. I'm not bothered by other people's religious beliefs. They are none of my business, although I remain interested in the variety of religions around me.

Bottom line is that people will get over it. The call to prayer will be broadcast. Before long, it will just be part of the local routine for everyone within earshot. Not a huge deal, really.

[Abolishinist]

8. I see it more a test of who doesn't care if they awaken their neighbors

at 5'clock in the morning by turning up their stereo and blasting out anything, let's say Closer by Nine Inch Nails, at full volume, using huge bass speakers.

I'm curious, how does this have anything to do with being a test for who is 'truly woke' ??

[MineralMan]

9. Think about it.

[Abolishinist]

14. I see where some might be confused about what I wrote. So to be clear,

when I said "I'm curious, how does this have anything to do with being a test for who is 'truly woke' ??" I was referring to your initial comment,

"This is an excellent test of who's truly woke and who ain't"

NOT to my statement regarding playing Nine Inch Nails.

And I assumed that your very first word, i.e. "This", was about what I consider to be the gist of the OP, which is that Minneapolis will allow broadcasts of the Muslim call to prayer at all hours, becoming the first major U.S. city to allow the announcement or “adhan” to be heard over speakers five times a day, year-round.

OR, perhaps "This" refers to the comment by the OP... "Too bad the Church of Satan doesn't have something similar (or the Church of Cannabis)"

Oh, and it would help if you would define "woke", as there seems to be some controversy as to what is meant by the term.

Thanks!

[MineralMan]

20. I'm not confused at all.

However, I stand by my post, as written. Your opinion is different from mine.

[Abolishinist]

21. First of all, I think we can agree that it is extremely unusual for an avowed atheist to

support a city ordinance that clearly weakens and goes against the establishment clause.

According to a recent Pew survey, most Democrats and those who lean toward the Democratic Party (72%) prefer church-state separation, compared with 38% of Republicans.

College graduates are far more supportive of church-state separation than are those with lower levels of education.

Support for separation of church and state is lower in the South than in other parts of the country.

A desire for church-state integration is almost nonexistent among U.S. Jews (1%) and the religiously unaffiliated (2%), who consist of those describing their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular.” Among self-identified atheists and agnostics, fully 96% fall into the church-state separationist category.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/10/28/in-u-s-far-more-support-than-oppose-separation-of-church-and-state/

[MineralMan]

23. The establishment clause prevents the government from

creating a state religion and discriminating against other religions. That has nothing to do with a Mosque calling people to worship in its traditional way. It also has nothing to do with bells ringing in churches or people preaching in the public square.

Hearing a bell or call to prayer does not infringe on your right to worship in your own way or have no religious beliefs at all.

I believe that people should be able to believe any damned thing they're able to believe, as long as they don't insist that I believe as they do. That's also in the First Amendment, along with the anti-establishment clause. You have to have the whole thing. The government cannot ban religious worship in whatever form it might take, as long as there is no material harm to others.

Hearing a call to prayer does not cause any actual harm. It might be annoying to some, but there is no right not to be annoyed at what others do.

If the church bells can ring, the call to prayer can take place, as well. That's because the Constitution protects us from a government sponsored and official religion. That's the purpose of the First Amendment, not only to protect the non-religious. It protects us all. The government doesn't get to decide for its citizens what and how they should worship, if they choose to do so.

As an avowed atheist, I feel strongly that all positions having to do with religion should be treated the same. Mine, and those of those who do have some sort of religious beliefs. Everyone gets to do as they please with regard to that, as long as nobody is harmed.

[Abolishinist]

26. The Establishment Clause prohibits the government from privileging religious messages.

The Supreme Court has said time and again that the “First Amendment mandates government neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion.

The church bells were ringing in compliance with the noise ordinances in place at the time, which allowed for more quiet in the evenings and early morning. In addition, they were not broadcasting the following....

God is Great! God is Great! God is Great! God is Great!
I bear witness that there is no god except the One God.
I bear witness that there is no god except the One God.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Hurry to the prayer. Hurry to the prayer.
Hurry to salvation. Hurry to salvation.
God is Great! God is Great!
There is no god except the One God.

Prior to this change they managed to pray on their own, they don’t need it now. Since it is not needed, this is simply an unconstitutional support of religious privilege. Such a prayer call is unnecessary in the third decade of the 21st century, when it is absurd to believe that people cannot be called to prayer by other means.

[MineralMan]

27. Your issue, not mine.

I'm done.

[Abolishinist]

28. Fortunately, at least for those of us concerned with the separation of church and state,

it's also an issue for the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

"Multiple concerned residents have informed the state/church watchdog that the city of Minneapolis has altered its noise violation statute to allow religious organizations, including churches and mosques, to broadcast bells, chimes and amplified messages at all hours of the day. While the statute ostensibly allows any religious group to disturb their community with noises that would be impermissible if not related to religious purposes, it’s clear this change was made to specifically allow mosques to broadcast an amplified call to prayer as early as 3:30 a.m. and as late as 11 p.m. The change was pushed for by local mosques and Muslims and, tellingly, the ordinance was signed into law inside Dar Al-Hijrah Mosque.

Under the city’s statutory revision, religious messages may be broadcast at any time of day, even the middle of the night, solely because they are religious in nature. Furthermore, this revision was done for the purpose of privileging the call to prayer, which provides a benefit uniquely to the Muslim community. This is not neutrality but is instead an imposition of one religious view and message onto all community members, FFRF contends.

It is also worth pointing out that, rather than uniting Minneapolis’ diverse community, allowing religious organizations to disturb residents in the middle of the night with amplified calls to prayer alienates the nonreligious. Muslims make up just 1 percent of Minneapolis' Hennepin County residents while 30 percent of Hennepin County residents are religiously unaffiliated. It should be noted, too, that in our modern age of cellphones, alarm clocks, and all manner of digital devices, broadcasting a loud, amplified message to an entire community in order to facilitate the religious practices of a select group of members of that community is not only unnecessary, but unreasonable.

In order to respect the constitutional rights of the Minneapolis residents who will be negatively affected by amplified calls to prayer, FFRF asks that the city rescind the changes to Minneapolis’ noise ordinance and treat religion neutrally — with neither hostility nor favoritism."

https://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item/42202-rescind-religiously-slanted-noise-ordinance-ffrf-insists-to-minneapolis

"Ron Reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell"

[MineralMan]

30. That's not a surprising position for them to take.

In doing so, though, they join with fundamentalist Christian organizations that object because "Muslims." Strange bedfellows, it seems to me.

Despite being an atheist, I belong to exactly zero anti-religion organizations.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. lol this fuckin thread

[JI7]

11. How about other religions ? What if someone of another religion decided to use the loudspeaker

to spread their religion ? Would that be allowed ?

[dalton99a]

12. I want to hear a symphonic contest between The Church That Hates Beef vs The Church That Hates Pork

vs The Church That Hates Chicken vs The Church That Hates Women vs

[MineralMan]

24. Sure. Have you never been in a public place where some street preacher

is proclaiming some religion? Sometimes, they even have bullhorns. They're free to do so, and you're free to mock them as they do.

[Meowmee]

13. 5 x a day every day

On a loudspeaker is too much. Years ago in Jerusalem I was woken up by adhan in the am a few times. It was very loud, I would not want to live near, and hear it all the time, it would drive me nuts. I don’t remember it happening five times a day, it was only in the morning there.

I think this is a noise pollution issue, invasion of privacy issue, and also freedom from religion issue.

I guess churches do it sometimes with bells, but it is not usually broadcast, as far as I know, on a loudspeaker and it has never been too loud when I was near, and happened to hear it, and it was an occasional event thing.

This is one reason I do not like cities, too much noise pollution from many sources.

[dalton99a]

15. +1. But people who don't own alarm clocks have rights too

[Meowmee]

16. Lol

It is one hell of an alarm clock…😹 apparently it was 5 x a day in Jerusalem too, according to my brother. But the am waking up was what I remember now not being a morning person.

[GuppyGal]

18. They need to make an app for that. Those prayer calls can be very loud. Also why is this needed

in this day and age? I get it when we didn't all have clocks and alarms on every damn thing so I disagree with this and I don't care what religion it's for. I equally hate them all LOL

[dalton99a]

19. But there are so many apps to choose from - and many people can't afford a Walmart cellphone

etc. etc.

[MineralMan]

25. They do make apps for that.

Why? Because the time for prayer in Islam is not a fixed time of day. It is governed by the position of the sun in the sky. So, the call changes its time constantly. But, yes, there are apps. Not everyone has a device that can run those apps, though.

Still, I'm betting you do not live in a place where the Islamic call to prayer can be heard. Not many people do in the United States.

[RobinA]

22. This Should

go well. No organized community opposition? Yes, at this most tolerant time in America's history, I'm sure that's accurate.

Here in Philadelphia they want to build a sports complex right up against Chinatown. Originally they said there was no real opposition. That turned out not quite to be the case. However, it did mobilize the opposition.

[Celerity]

29. Now Satanic Temple of Seattle wants prayer time on the 50-yard line, too

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/brace-for-field-day-on-bremertons-50-yard-line/

This week the Satanic Temple of Seattle announced that a 12th-grader at Bremerton High School has requested the group join the coach’s prayer circle after the next game, on Thursday, to perform a satanic invocation.

Which goes something like this:

“Let us stand now, unbowed and unfettered by arcane doctrines born of fearful minds. Let us embrace the Luciferian impulse to eat of the Tree of Knowledge and dissipate our comforting delusions of old.

“That which will not bend must break, and that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise. It is done. Hail Satan!”

[renate]

31. Good intentions but no thank you

I think the calls to prayer sound lovely, and it's wonderful that the council is supportive of the city's Muslim inhabitants, but I'd be pretty pissed if I had a non-9-to-5 work schedule or was trying to get a baby to sleep.

But I guess it's going to happen, so I hope it goes well.

[orleans]

32. ugh. not everyone goes to bed at nine or ten and gets up at the crack of dawn

where i'm at, chicago burbs, there are noise ordinances -- no running lawn mowers or starting construction before a certain time.

the monthly tornado siren drill goes off at 10am

i understand there is a time change involved since sunrise time changes. can't someone figure out an app that could go off when the mosque near you begins their morning call?

[Abolishinist]

33. Apparently there are many to choose from, see post #19.

I'm sure all cities have noise ordinances, this is a clear case of the city kowtowing to a small minority at the expense of the majority.

[harumph]

34. I agree with Abolutionist upthread - two words for this:

PUBLIC NUISANCE.

5 times a day - year round!!!! Fuck that shit.