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Samrob

(4,298 posts)
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 09:46 AM Apr 2023

America will never be "exceptional" as long as liars, cheats, anti-democracy, racist, fascist,

gun-humping, grifting, autocrat-loving, immoral, misogynistic men and women, are at helm of our local, state, and national governments. PERIOD! FULL STOP!

We are pissing in the frontal wind if we think differently. WAKE THE FUCK UP, AMERICA!

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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America will never be "exceptional" as long as liars, cheats, anti-democracy, racist, fascist, (Original Post) Samrob Apr 2023 OP
There's too many people who don't use... Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2023 #1
Excellent point - and amazingly well illustrated peppertree Apr 2023 #8
To me, it's the religious right that's causing America to regress Poiuyt Apr 2023 #2
Worship and warship ....too close for comfort. n/t Hope22 Apr 2023 #4
Yes, #2, and Yes ,Hope22, those folks don't teach and sing "Onward Xtian Soldiers" Backseat Driver Apr 2023 #21
Have to agree Rebl2 Apr 2023 #5
We began with the bad seed of colonialism, then in the name of investor PatrickforB Apr 2023 #12
Well said. c-rational Apr 2023 #17
History lesson that is never taught. Well said. kairos12 Apr 2023 #19
Thank you for this history Wild blueberry Apr 2023 #20
Spot on. Downsouthjukin Apr 2023 #22
Thanks. You packed a bunch of important items into a concise response. Forwarding... erronis Apr 2023 #23
No arguement here housecat Apr 2023 #3
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE! usaf-vet Apr 2023 #6
So much corruption! cilla4progress Apr 2023 #7
If we Traildogbob Apr 2023 #9
"Ingraham would be put in her place..." Like Serena in Handmaid's Tale. Beartracks Apr 2023 #11
But they never stop to think about that part. calimary Apr 2023 #14
"People can't make sensible moral decisions if they're based on misinformation..." Septua Apr 2023 #10
Yes, and some of them simply WANT to believe... Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2023 #13
Assholes exist everywhere and there's nothing you can do about them Warpy Apr 2023 #15
we wont be excptional with constant cover ups and denial of actual and factual history. AllaN01Bear Apr 2023 #16
Nailed it republianmushroom Apr 2023 #18

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,855 posts)
1. There's too many people who don't use...
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 10:17 AM
Apr 2023

... evidence and logic (scientific method) to guide their decisions, and to form their alliances among like-minded people who hold objective truth as their ideal.

They're instead tribalistic, allying themselves with others who appear most similar to them culturally. That happens among some Democrats too, but not nearly as much as Republicans.

Recent examples of tribalism that I've personally observed:
1. Trying to share the story of a MURDER by a cop in Colorado (named Andrew Buen) with a right-wing coworker, and her quick reply was "You're barking up the wrong tree with me! My Dad was a cop!" Then she ignored me as I tried to explain the body cam videos.
2. Asking my Republican brother (who retired from military service) if our sister's first boyfriend was really the constant liar as our oldest brother described to me years ago, and the brother instead replied, "Hey! That guy served as a Marine in Vietnam!" (As if that had any bearing on the guy being a habitual liar or not.)

People can't make sensible moral decisions if they're based on misinformation, which is far more likely to happen if evidence and logic don't guide their thinking. If there was REALLY pedophilia happening at the Comet Ping Pong restaurant in Washington DC, then the NUTJOB who showed up with a gun trying to save the children would be a hero. Alas, it wasn't true (OBVIOUSLY!), and the guy was instead a conspiracy-believing idiot who got arrested.

peppertree

(21,644 posts)
8. Excellent point - and amazingly well illustrated
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 11:36 AM
Apr 2023

I've had very similar experiences with Republicans:

"I fought in Korea, and thanks to the Marines 40 million people (at the time) are now free. How dare they talk to Col. North like that!"

The fact that North was shameless drug-runner didn't seem to matter.

"I was Conservative in England; and am a Republican here!"

An staunchly racist, bleach-blonde (and incompetent) realtor. Got kicked out of one realty after another; ended up at ReMax.

"I'm Greek and Italian - so of course I'm Republican!"

For starters, he was adopted (looked Irish); second, he obviously never heard of the Cuomos, Nancy Pelosi, Stephanopolous, or Mike Dukakis.

And of course, the neo-Confederates (I lived in Mi'ssippi for years). They'll vote for anyone who'll side with them of Jim Crow.

Poiuyt

(18,129 posts)
2. To me, it's the religious right that's causing America to regress
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 10:36 AM
Apr 2023

We used to be exceptional, but this stranglehold that they have on our government and on people's way of thinking, is sending us back to the 1700s.

Backseat Driver

(4,394 posts)
21. Yes, #2, and Yes ,Hope22, those folks don't teach and sing "Onward Xtian Soldiers"
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 12:38 PM
Apr 2023

to their toddlers for no reason...I really do detest that song! No matter what some declare politically and considering that the Right have no cohesive official party platform of which to speak to the People, fundies have co-opted their biblical Old Testament platform of prophesy and righteousness into the Right...that alone covers up a litany of political and secretive misinformation concerning family value "sinfulness."

PatrickforB

(14,585 posts)
12. We began with the bad seed of colonialism, then in the name of investor
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 12:01 PM
Apr 2023

profits, we moved into conquest by genocide.

Because labor is short in small and even growing colonies, we turned to slavery, and built a whole economy on its back.

We fought a great civil war to destroy slavery, but then turned around and in the name of manifest destiny finished the coast to coast conquest, genocide and actively worked to destroy indigenous cultures.

We annexed the Philippines, carried a big stick in Central and South America and overturned many governments there in favor of our 'business interests.'

We, particularly the Bush family, were instrumental in creating the military industrial complex, always hungry for war and killing so shareholders may profit.

We elevated shareholder profits above human life itself by legal doctrine (Dodge Brothers v Henry Ford, MI Supreme Court, 1919).

FDR created the New Deal because this country almost went 'red' (Communist) during the depression because there were no safety nets. Unemployment, welfare, food assistance and old age pensions did not exist. They were created and those in the country who were white Protestants prospered. We had a middle class that became the envy of the world, and after the Second World War, were the so-called 'arsenal of democracy.'

In the South, slavery was resurrected through Jim Crow laws, and we literally had an apartheid system for decades.

Then, when Eisenhower's plan to take Cuba (Bay of Pigs) failed on Kennedy's watch, and then Kennedy faced down Kruschev in the Cuban Missile Crisis, the military industrial complex was disappointed, and when he refused to send thousands of troops over to Vietnam so shareholders of companies like General Dynamics, Lockheed, Northrup Grumman, Dow Chemical and Colt could rake in profits, JFK was mysteriously assassinated.

LBJ sent 500K people over to Nam and tore this country apart. Civil rights, consumer rights, women's rights and anti-war movements burgeoned and it alarmed the greed-lizards on Wall Street.

The US Chamber of Commerce asked Lewis Powell, a Nixon appointee to the Supreme Court, to create a blueprint for a corporate takeover of the US government at local, state and national levels. The Powell Memorandum, also known as the Powell Manifesto, laid out the plan for a corporate propaganda network, attacks on academic freedom, the plan to take over the Republican primary process, bust unions, take away worker pensions, destroy the New Deal programs, and dilute consumer concerns with pseudo science.

In 1981, Reagan slithered into the White House saying government is the problem, not the solution, and began the systematic erosion of our faith in government that had already taken such a hit during the Vietnam War.

Then, in 1987, Ronald Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine, which required truthful reporting of news at all local levels. This pulled the stops out of the Powell plan and accelerated it.

Powell and his allies on the Supreme Court legislated from the bench, and made rulings whenever they could that allowed corporate money to wield increasing influence on Congress. The Chicago School (von Mises, Hayek, Milton Friedman) proposed the laughable theory that cutting taxes for corporations would create so many new jobs that the new payroll taxes would more than make up for the revenue shortfall. An economist named Buchanan, who was a favorite of billionaire parasites like the Koch brothers ended up promoting this through right-wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and ALEC.

Enough...you get the idea. Look at it through this lens and the ONLY thing we have ever been exceptional at is our potential to be the light on the hill. Too bad that has been destroyed by pride (false patriotism leading to war), wrath (unilateral invasion of Iraq based on lies to gin up the anger of Americans), envy (our consumer culture is based on keeping up with the Joneses), gluttony (big ag and the food industry pack our foods with growth hormones, trans fats and other things that are bad for us but more profitable, so we get fat - then a multi-billion dollar industry grows up around weight loss), lust (pornography, and even mundane commercials - sex sells!), and sloth (gambling, cigarettes, alcohol, gaming, extreme sports) that offers a false escape from the grinding realities of getting squeezed ever tighter to produce greater profits for Wall Street.

This is what we have. We ARE exceptional at a couple things, though. Denial, conspiracy theories, corruption, lies, and killing lots of people really fast.

cilla4progress

(24,756 posts)
7. So much corruption!
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 11:32 AM
Apr 2023

When we hosted our Afghan exchange student, I learned a lot about the corruption that runs rampant there. I was acutely aware that truly very little distinguishes the US. That was in 2011. Been a steep downward spiral here ever since. Or maybe it's just that we know more about it.

Traildogbob

(8,771 posts)
9. If we
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 11:42 AM
Apr 2023

Started a Taliban religious club here, it would be far bigger than our Nazis and White Nationalist in a week. Christianity would loose 75 percent of its club and it would be the GQP base, with Tuckums, Hannity and Ingrham as Cleric leaders. No wait, Ingraham would be put in her place as part of the cleric haram.

Beartracks

(12,820 posts)
11. "Ingraham would be put in her place..." Like Serena in Handmaid's Tale.
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 12:00 PM
Apr 2023

The world that women like Ingraham are fighting for would sideline them from power if it ever came to pass.

===========

Septua

(2,256 posts)
10. "People can't make sensible moral decisions if they're based on misinformation..."
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 11:56 AM
Apr 2023

There are some who believed the misinformation disseminated by the radical right sources and have came to realize it was misinformation. But as we have learned from the Dominion vs Fox lawsuit revelations, there are far more who seek out the misinformation.

That's the 30% bunch of crazies supporting MAGA who elect the " anti-democracy, racist, fascist, gun-humping, grifting, autocrat-loving, immoral, misogynistic men and women" running the country and the red-state legislatures have rigged the system to the point they can't be voted out.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,855 posts)
13. Yes, and some of them simply WANT to believe...
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 12:01 PM
Apr 2023

... the lies from right-wing propaganda.

I sometimes wonder if the resulting cognitive dissonance torments them, making several of them seem so miserable and angry.

Others strike me as lazy-brained, preferring the "easier" choices based on tribalism and simplistic explanations instead of really using their noggins.

Warpy

(111,305 posts)
15. Assholes exist everywhere and there's nothing you can do about them
Sat Apr 15, 2023, 12:08 PM
Apr 2023

except figure out ways to outvote them.

Getting corporate and plutocrat money out of politics might help.

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