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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFox News has lost control of its viewers
Fox News has lost control of its viewers
Fox News was founded to control the GOP base but now the hosts are in the thrall of their worst viewers
By AMANDA MARCOTTE
Senior Writer
PUBLISHED APRIL 17, 2023 6:05AM (EDT)
(Salon) Roger Ailes came up with the idea for Fox News in the 70s, when he was working as an image consultant for then-president Richard Nixon. From the get-go, the idea was that a TV network would be a top-down propaganda outlet that would manipulate and control voters, especially more conservative ones. "People are lazy," read a document titled "A Plan for Putting the GOP on TV News" that was presented to Nixon in 1970. "With television you just sitwatchlisten. The thinking is done for you." Even though the document was unsigned, it's widely believed to be the work of Ailes, who wanted a "pro-Administration" mouthpiece that could go around the traditional media.
The plan didn't get off the ground during the Nixon administration. It's arguable, and Ailes certainly believed, that if such a network had existed at the time, Nixon would have very well been able to survive Watergate. A Fox News would have been able to blast Republican voters with non-stop excuses that they could use to ignore the uncomfortable reality that their president was irredeemably corrupt. The proof of concept is evident: Donald Trump has survived multiple scandals that all make Watergate look like small stakes, largely because Fox is on hand to feed GOP voters all the rationalizations they need to stick by Trump's side.
Ailes, who died in 2017, was able to make his right-wing "news" network a reality in 1996 when he used Rupert Murdoch's backing to found Fox News. A defamation lawsuit against Fox by Dominion Voting Systems, which a judge delayed start of until Tuesday, has already revealed that Fox News does not work as Ailes imagined it would. It is not a top-down propaganda outlet exploiting the empty heads of its right-wing audience in order to exert mind control over them. On the contrary, pre-trial documents filed by Dominion show the opposite: Fox's content is determined largely by the audience. Fox viewers want their favorite network to affirm the various racist conspiracy theories that proliferate on right-wing social media, and Fox leadership, eager to keep viewers and ad dollars, has been all too willing to comply. Even when, as the documents show, they're well aware that the "news" they're reporting isn't true.
....(snip)....
"Respecting this audience whether we agree or not is critical," host Sean Hannity wrote in one text, arguing that Fox needed to step up its game in airing these election conspiracy theories, even though he knew full well that Biden was the actual winner.
....(snip)....
It's likely that the relationship between Fox News and its viewers did, at one time, exist how Ailes imagined it, where Fox News tells people what to believe and they obediently listen. The advent of social media, however, shifted the locus of power away from the network to its viewers. On social media, there's no real check on how wild conspiracy theories can get or how far misinformation can spread. To compete with that, Fox News has to offer the same high-octane right-wing nuttery. It's likely that the trial will result in even more embarrassing evidence of how much Fox has reshaped itself to appeal to its audience's ugliest desires. ................(more)
https://www.salon.com/2023/04/17/fox-news-has-lost-control-of-its-viewers/
Irish_Dem
(81,277 posts)How fitting.
republianmushroom
(22,326 posts)onetexan
(13,913 posts)bucolic_frolic
(55,143 posts)Comforting. Not.
Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #2)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
marble falls
(71,936 posts)... Dominion, apparently.
Response to marble falls (Reply #22)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
marble falls
(71,936 posts)Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)The People of the Jury will reward you handsomely, guaranteed when they are shocked by the Big Lie full exposed to view!
FSogol
(47,623 posts)trusted name in News.
SleeplessinSoCal
(10,412 posts)NOT FUNNY!
FSogol
(47,623 posts)Wonder Why
(7,029 posts)BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)NJCher
(43,167 posts)that headline: most trusted for news
they just forgot to add "by lunatics."
Thanks for the screenshot.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)And you're welcome! Had to pull out a disinfectant for the phone after that.
calimary
(90,032 posts)FSogol
(47,623 posts)acceptable.
marble falls
(71,936 posts)homegirl
(1,965 posts)more information-lots more!
marble falls
(71,936 posts)... however:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-skews/
The Fox News Channel won a 2004 court case allowing the cable channel to lie to viewers.
Rating:
False
False
About this rating
Rumors have circulated since at least 2009 claiming that the Fox News cable television channel fought successfully in court for the right to lie, misinform, or deceive viewers. The claim that Fox News legally won the "right to lie" has been repeated across the internet despite its being factually inaccurate on more than one level.
First, the case from which the rumor stemmed resulted in a Florida appeals court ruling in February 2003, not 2004. More germane to the rumor, however, is the fact that the case at hand did not involve the national Fox News Channel; rather, it was a breach of contract lawsuit filed by two reporters against their former employer, Tampa Bay television station WTVT. (The situation was somewhat more complicated because WTVT was an affiliate of the Fox television network and was also owned by Fox, but the Fox television network and the Fox News Channel are two distinctly different entities.)
The legal battle to which the rumor refers was about a husband-and-wife reporting team, Jane Aker and Steve Wilson, who in 1996 put together a story about the use of the Monsanto-produced synthetic bovine growth hormone (BGH) Posilac by Florida dairy farmers. WTVT's management asserted that the reporters' BGH piece was alarmist and one-sided and ordered the reporters to edit their story to produce a more "balanced" piece. Aker and Wilson defied those orders; as a result, the BGH story never aired, and the pair were terminated by WTVT in 1997.
The two reporters sued the station for breach of contract and retaliatory firing the following year, maintaining that they had been unfairly terminated from their jobs for "resisting WTVT's attempts to distort or suppress the BGH story" at the behest of Fox corporate and Monsanto, and that the station's management had fired them in retaliation over their threats to file a complaint about WTVT's "deliberate news distortion" to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC):
In September 1997, WTVT notified Akre and Wilson that it was exercising its option to terminate their employment contracts without cause. Akre and Wilson responded in writing to WTVT threatening to file a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission ("FCC"
alleging that the station had "illegally" edited the still unfinished BGH report in violation of an FCC policy against federally licensed broadcasters deliberately distorting the news. The parties never resolved their differences regarding the content of the story, and consequently, the story never aired.
In April 1998, Akre and Wilson sued WTVT alleging, among other things, claims under the whistle-blower's statute. Those claims alleged that their terminations had been in retaliation for their resisting WTVT's attempts to distort or suppress the BGH story and for threatening to report the alleged news distortion to the FCC. Akre also brought claims for declaratory relief and for breach of contract. After a four-week trial, a jury found against Wilson on all of his claims. The trial court directed a verdict against Akre on her breach of contract claim, Akre abandoned her claim for declaratory relief, and the trial court let her whistle-blower claims go to the jury. The jury rejected all of Akre's claims except her claim that WTVT retaliated against her in response to her threat to disclose the alleged news distortion to the FCC. The jury awarded Akre $425,000 in damages.
Another common misconception is that Fox News invoked First Amendment protections in order to retain the "right to lie" during the lengthy legal battle between the couple and the Florida Fox affiliate. There was no mention of any such claim in the appeals court decision, and Akre herself does not corroborate it. Ultimately, the FCC concluded in 2007 that the conflict between Akre and Wilson and the affiliate boiled down to an "editorial dispute ... rather than a deliberate effort by [WTVT] to distort news."
The "right to lie" claims are similar to another false story about Fox News' trustworthiness, that the network was banned in Canada because it does not meet stringent Canadian broadcast standards for truthfulness.
I guess I stretched this to "SCOTUS says Fox under no obligation to post factual truth on their news broadcasts."
My bad.
Wonder Why
(7,029 posts)Mariana
(15,626 posts)marble falls
(71,936 posts)... face sanctions. Or hate speech? What is Fox guaranteeing or using as bait to attract new viewers when they put themselves up as "America's Newsroom"? Are they falsely claiming they provide news factually or does 'news' just mean the latest crap they think up?
All freedom of speech means is no prior restraint to speech, but the speech itself may be actionable. Does this mean that Fox can or can't be enjoined from claiming to be news, or that the crap they project needs to be tested item by item?
If I sell peanut butter that I claim is "100% peanut butter" when I use pumpkin seed as filler, I can be forced to change my label. I can't use 'freedom of speech as a defense.
Like a justice on wrote about pornography - "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it", is news under that same sort of definition, could local authorities restrain Fox news locally and force Fox to fight it out locally as SCOTUS has allowed local jurisdictions to do with pornography?
Many more questions than answers.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)Whenever I was down that way, I would pick up a print version but have an electronic sub and just checked the "print" version in the mobile app (I usually use the regular web version but have to use the app now to see the "print" view) and found it.

FSogol
(47,623 posts)this country. I hope Dominion doesn't settle.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)And agree - certainly the Sandy Hook families haven't settled with Alex Jones & InfoWars for defamation and Dominion, having deeper pockets than the Sandy Hook survivors and families who are also victims of RW conspiracy nuts, should not either.
The Wizard
(13,735 posts)Russian propaganda (AKA Pox News).
LiberalArkie
(19,807 posts)BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)The WaPo article at your link even has a snapshot of a tweet with an image of the paper version of the ad -
They won't ever get "the data". Maybe some "alt-data".
marble falls
(71,936 posts)BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)I don't know how many times I used to see OPs here that encouraged DUers to weigh in and "DU" some poll.
NJCher
(43,167 posts)take my word for it. I used to work in television marketing research. The real purpose of tv surveys is to evaluate what demographic is watching what so they can justify charging what they want to charge. Certain demographics are worth more than others, notably 25-49 because they don't have every consumer good imaginable, like the older demos do.
So if you know that, it's easy to deduce who Fox oversampled to get the result they wanted. You literally can make any survey come out the way you want it.
I'm surprised even one DU-er on this thread thought this had even a grain of truth to it.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)when my sister's godparents were Nielsen participants and showed us the log/diary they reported with. And later being a fan of a bunch of shows I eventually learned how they worked that system with the February "sweeps" being the primary time for ratings to set the ad rates for that upcoming fall. Of course nowadays, with cable and streaming outlets, the traditional "seasons" have been almost thrown out the window.
And with the demos, they are obviously constantly shifting as populations age but they are looking for that prime income-receiving range.
Ohioboy
(3,893 posts)Johonny
(26,183 posts)But decades of radio and TV propaganda means a new generation of GOP politicians have been raised on this material. It was once understood by GOP politicians that the propaganda they used to get in power was for mass consumption, not for governance. But now the rubes are in power and they don't understand any difference. They've been taught, brainwashed, and more importantly rapidly replacing the old guard.
Nixon would be every bit as frightened of these new GOP politicians as he was of Reagan (no brains he called Reagan).
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)They called up something they cannot put down....
NJCher
(43,167 posts)over and over and the only difference is they get significantly crazier with every scheme. Be it Fox News, Benghazi, whatever their scheme is, it nearly always ends up owning them instead of working for them.
I remember Paul Krugman wrote about this over a decade ago. He described the phenomena and he predicted how crazy they were going to go.
I've looked for that column and have never found it. It was prescient.
erronis
(23,882 posts)It should be obvious but sometimes I don't really connect the dots.
These (r)epuglicon political assholes have been raised drinking the swill. Having grown up in the 50s/60s I knew of a time when the party leaders were still intelligent and looking for ways to compromise. Guess I should have known that Nixon and Gingrich/etc. ushered in a whole new era of sleaze for the (r) party.
IronLionZion
(51,271 posts)Trump, Nixon, Harding, even Reagan and W had some issues.
Trump really needs to be the first US president to go to prison. Make history!
AngryOldDem
(14,180 posts)He lays out pretty well how people in powerful places get away with their shit. He has a chapter on Reagan.
NJCher
(43,167 posts)on his podcast. It describes this very well, very factually. Regardless of your position on any issue, his description is straight from the facts and the reality of the way our society is structured. That is why we see what we do.
Elie and Preet are valuable members of the "reality-based" segment of our culture.
AngryOldDem
(14,180 posts)I was referencing David Corns American Psychosis, which I read right after Elies book. Davod explained the Reagan years, especially Iran Contra, and how he was able to get away with it. Dovetails nicely with Elie.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)That it was all the fault of their intellectually and politically warped audience? An audience which was never coopted or guided by Fox but were, actually, the defacto source of all Fox's valuable propaganda. A case of "letters to the editor" gone wildly amok.
Fox was innocent all along but their viewers drug them into the sewer where they accidentally got rich and became the primary source of info for 40% of America's tee vee viewers.
I think we should take this moment to reflect, as progressives, on our role in this
.
shrike3
(5,370 posts)"We can control him/them/her." We can never control him/them/her.
McConnell and others thought the GOP could control Trump. Look how that worked out.
NJCher
(43,167 posts)We were talking about the "perfect murder." My friend was married to a detective and she is a former supervisor in the NJ state crime lab. She knows her blood spatters.
What she said was that the people who try to plan out the perfect murder never factor in the victim. The victim cannot be predicted.
As the watcher of many a Dateline, I fully appreciate that observation.
To draw the line, Fox victimized a portion of the population by lying to them, but they victimized the rest of us by distorting their view of what actually happened.
Now what will the vic do? We are about to find out.
shrike3
(5,370 posts)And I never thought of it that way -- the victim can't be predicted.
ITAL
(1,323 posts)I knew that this was the case for certain around the time of the 2020 election when conservative family started writing about how Fox was selling out because they were reporting that Biden won. All sorts of posts on facebook how they couldn't watch it anymore because they'd gone to the dark side and were gonna migrate to Newsmax and the further right ecosystem. If I had a handful of family feel that way, I bet it was endemic among the base.
DFW
(60,189 posts)AngryOldDem
(14,180 posts)They regret calling the race for Biden. They lost a lot of credibility by that moment of truth, hence the Dominion lie later.
Dominion should say a firm HELL NO to any settlement offer and take Fucker Carlson, Murdoch, and his buddies to trial. Its time to begin making everybody accountable for Jan. 6 fallout, and Foxisvas good a place as any to start.
marble falls
(71,936 posts)aggiesal
(10,806 posts)they really didn't think this through.
IDIOTS!!!
YoshidaYui
(45,415 posts)WHEN they CAN'T AFFORD to keep their lights on any more.
NoMoreRepugs
(12,076 posts)Bucky
(55,334 posts)
AngryOldDem
(14,180 posts)Maybe now hell get the message that there are real consequences to making shit up.
The Wizard
(13,735 posts)is a confession.
SouthernDem4ever
(6,619 posts)Caliman73
(11,767 posts)Conservatives love to say that the media has a "liberal bias". To be completely fair and honest, liberalism is by far the dominant worldview and has been since the Enlightenment. The idea of taking in information, testing it against reality (what we can see, touch, taste, feel, etc...) and formulating ideas based on the rights of individuals balanced somewhat with the needs of society, is compelling. That is, unless you have a preconceived and long standing idea of what society should look like based on the monarchical systems of old. That second one is Conservatism.
Thing is, while both systems are not "natural" as Conservatives would have you believe their ideology and structure are, Liberalism tends to benefit most people in ways far superior to Conservatism (which favors the most powerful).
If you are a Conservative, you have already taken a rigid view of the world and you have tried to shoehorn information that does not comport to your worldview, or you have tried to reject it, in order for your world view to function.
Because Liberalism changes as the information on the ground changes, there is more flexibility in the mindset. While liberals do recognize difference in people, in terms of intelligence, strength, talents, etc... the balance is between rights and dignity, with the idea of meritocracy, where people are recognized for excellence. In conservatism, "excellence" is assumed by outcome (if you are wealthy, it is because you are worthy, even if you are scum like Donald Trump).
I disagree with what Marcotte says about "Fox has reshaped itself to appeal to its audiences ugliest desires..." Fox shaped and encouraged those ugliest desires and they did so for money and influence. They are not "victims" here. They absolutely knew what they were doing. When Roger Ailes proposed Fox to Murdoch, it was about money, but it was also in response to how Conservatism had just disgraced itself AGAIN with Nixon's debacle. Ailes and Pat Buchanan said, "Never again" and they were right, to a certain extent. Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., and Trump clearly broke the laws more than once, and have never been held accountable.
The problem with Conservatism is that once you start moving rightward and incorporating other extremist views (because you have to in order to maintain a coalition of non-wealthy people) you cannot stop. Fascists in Italy and Nazis in Germany realized it (too late). Right wingers here, have not learned that because they have not suffered the destruction and humiliation suffered in Germany and Italy during WWII.
RANDYWILDMAN
(3,163 posts)The idiots they created are like Gremlins, not the docile one like gizmo, it was only a matter of time.
MTG and TFG could only have been elected years after Fox news started because it took all that time to create enough uninforrmed voters of age to be able to vote.
Lindsey Graham was a somewhat sensible person at one point.
rudy G was always masking his madness Fox made it worse
Bill O was always a misogynist predator and Fox made him worse
Tucker alway played the idiot who knew better but could rile them up good
Kennedy (the fake fraud my home town) I'm libertarian, now except the fox puppets pay, you idiot !
pwb
(12,669 posts)Reading about them here makes me puke.
NullTuples
(6,017 posts)"Fox viewers want their favorite network to affirm the various racist conspiracy theories that proliferate on right-wing social media, and Fox leadership, eager to keep viewers and ad dollars, has been all too willing to comply"
Why would they not since that is the message the GOP wants to promote? I'm not so sure about this whole analysis...this seems to be blaming it all on greed, sidestepping that the greed and political manipulation of the audience go hand in hand?
pansypoo53219
(23,034 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(10,412 posts)How totally perfect that the lyingist liar of all time all costs them billions.
It should cost them their license.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)From Hugo Lowell, the young "The Guardian" reporter who appears on MSNBC as a contributor -
Link to tweet
@hugolowell
·
Follow
Huh Guardian now ranks #5 for domestic U.S. audience reach online among competitors in segment, pretty impressive
Image
Last edited
10:18 AM · Apr 18, 2023

I expect this is in contrast to the bullshit that Faux paid the NYT to print in a full page ad (i.e., there are all kinds of statistics out there and he didn't link to where he got his stats but there are several orgs that track this)