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marmar

(79,741 posts)
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 08:38 AM Apr 2023

Fox News has lost control of its viewers


Fox News has lost control of its viewers
Fox News was founded to control the GOP base — but now the hosts are in the thrall of their worst viewers

By AMANDA MARCOTTE
Senior Writer
PUBLISHED APRIL 17, 2023 6:05AM (EDT)


(Salon) Roger Ailes came up with the idea for Fox News in the 70s, when he was working as an image consultant for then-president Richard Nixon. From the get-go, the idea was that a TV network would be a top-down propaganda outlet that would manipulate and control voters, especially more conservative ones. "People are lazy," read a document titled "A Plan for Putting the GOP on TV News" that was presented to Nixon in 1970. "With television you just sit—watch—listen. The thinking is done for you." Even though the document was unsigned, it's widely believed to be the work of Ailes, who wanted a "pro-Administration" mouthpiece that could go around the traditional media.

The plan didn't get off the ground during the Nixon administration. It's arguable, and Ailes certainly believed, that if such a network had existed at the time, Nixon would have very well been able to survive Watergate. A Fox News would have been able to blast Republican voters with non-stop excuses that they could use to ignore the uncomfortable reality that their president was irredeemably corrupt. The proof of concept is evident: Donald Trump has survived multiple scandals that all make Watergate look like small stakes, largely because Fox is on hand to feed GOP voters all the rationalizations they need to stick by Trump's side.

Ailes, who died in 2017, was able to make his right-wing "news" network a reality in 1996 when he used Rupert Murdoch's backing to found Fox News. A defamation lawsuit against Fox by Dominion Voting Systems, which a judge delayed start of until Tuesday, has already revealed that Fox News does not work as Ailes imagined it would. It is not a top-down propaganda outlet exploiting the empty heads of its right-wing audience in order to exert mind control over them. On the contrary, pre-trial documents filed by Dominion show the opposite: Fox's content is determined largely by the audience. Fox viewers want their favorite network to affirm the various racist conspiracy theories that proliferate on right-wing social media, and Fox leadership, eager to keep viewers and ad dollars, has been all too willing to comply. Even when, as the documents show, they're well aware that the "news" they're reporting isn't true.

....(snip)....

"Respecting this audience whether we agree or not is critical," host Sean Hannity wrote in one text, arguing that Fox needed to step up its game in airing these election conspiracy theories, even though he knew full well that Biden was the actual winner.

....(snip)....

It's likely that the relationship between Fox News and its viewers did, at one time, exist how Ailes imagined it, where Fox News tells people what to believe and they obediently listen. The advent of social media, however, shifted the locus of power away from the network to its viewers. On social media, there's no real check on how wild conspiracy theories can get or how far misinformation can spread. To compete with that, Fox News has to offer the same high-octane right-wing nuttery. It's likely that the trial will result in even more embarrassing evidence of how much Fox has reshaped itself to appeal to its audience's ugliest desires. ................(more)

https://www.salon.com/2023/04/17/fox-news-has-lost-control-of-its-viewers/




66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Fox News has lost control of its viewers (Original Post) marmar Apr 2023 OP
The GOP propaganda arm created a monster which now controls them. Irish_Dem Apr 2023 #1
Yep, you are correct. Eat it republicans. republianmushroom Apr 2023 #49
THIS!!☝️ onetexan Apr 2023 #64
Great. So the loons are not in the studio. They are my neighbors instead. bucolic_frolic Apr 2023 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2023 #4
There's no getting even as a class. There are only too few individuals to get justice, that and ... marble falls Apr 2023 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2023 #25
I think we'll at the very least see a more moderate Fox. But burning it down would sit OK with me. marble falls Apr 2023 #26
Save America! Do not settle! There is a higher calling! Alexander Of Assyria Apr 2023 #3
Fox News had a full page ad in the Washington Post today showing a poll proclaining them the most FSogol Apr 2023 #5
Is that supposed to be a joke? SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2023 #6
Not a joke. Full page ad on back of A section. n/t FSogol Apr 2023 #17
WP elling out its ethic for a few bucks? That really true? Wonder Why Apr 2023 #8
Just posted a screenshot below BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #14
it's probably true NJCher Apr 2023 #35
It could have also read BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #39
My immediate question to that claim would be "trusted by whom?" calimary Apr 2023 #62
Ads are ads. Newspapers don't pick sides on selling ad space. Outright lies are perfectly FSogol Apr 2023 #18
The Surpreme Court ruled Fox had no obligation to tell the truth. marble falls Apr 2023 #28
Please homegirl Apr 2023 #52
Oooops. I vaguely remember that being being posted here in the early 2000's ... marble falls Apr 2023 #54
But WP needs the ethics to not accept it - even in ads or put a disclaimer as a minimum. Wonder Why Apr 2023 #58
Freedom of expression includes the freedom to lie. Mariana Apr 2023 #63
The problem is there are exceptions: an oath for example, or 'truth in advertising', one can ... marble falls Apr 2023 #65
Ewww... BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #13
Thanks for posting that. While some here want to bash WAPO over it, it just shows the sad state of FSogol Apr 2023 #19
YW BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #20
59% do not trust The Wizard Apr 2023 #36
YouGov is a UK polling org. WP is requesting the data on the poll LiberalArkie Apr 2023 #55
LOL BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #57
You gov isn't any RW poller per se, but Fox DID commission the poll. marble falls Apr 2023 #27
I can imagine that they gamed the poll too BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #31
you don't have to imagine it NJCher Apr 2023 #37
I remember way back in the '70s BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #44
Notice it doesn't say they are trusted for truth Ohioboy Apr 2023 #48
In the 1970s GOP politicians controlled their voters, now they are their voters Johonny Apr 2023 #7
Exactly, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2023 #33
and they just keep doing it NJCher Apr 2023 #38
That's such a good point. The new breed of RW politicians are products of fox/RW propaganda erronis Apr 2023 #50
The GOP does have a history of electing irredeemably corrupt crooks IronLionZion Apr 2023 #9
Read "Untouchable" by Elie Honig. AngryOldDem Apr 2023 #16
Elie was interviewed by Preet Bahara NJCher Apr 2023 #40
Actually, I got my books confused. AngryOldDem Apr 2023 #45
So, does this mean Fox news is blameless? jaxexpat Apr 2023 #10
No, just that history repeats itself. shrike3 Apr 2023 #24
my friend the criminologist says the same NJCher Apr 2023 #42
Excellent analogy. Dateline is one of my guilty pleasures. shrike3 Apr 2023 #46
I have been saying this ITAL Apr 2023 #11
The very name "Fox News" is a blatant violation of the Truth in Advertising Act. n/t DFW Apr 2023 #12
Yep. They've got loonier competition now. AngryOldDem Apr 2023 #15
It was inevidible: Sow the clouds, reap the whirlwinds. marble falls Apr 2023 #21
Not surprised that the inmates are in charge of the prison ... aggiesal Apr 2023 #23
I LOOK forward to their FAILURE YoshidaYui Apr 2023 #29
The TeaParty fiasco was driven in large part by Faux - the QWhackadoodles have since taken control. NoMoreRepugs Apr 2023 #30
exclusive photo of Rupert Murdoch confronting his volatile viewers Bucky Apr 2023 #32
Poor Rupert. AngryOldDem Apr 2023 #41
🤣 NJCher Apr 2023 #43
A settlement The Wizard Apr 2023 #34
They haven't lost control if the bobble heads are still watching SouthernDem4ever Apr 2023 #47
They painted themselves into a corner... Caliman73 Apr 2023 #51
They can't lie to themselves RANDYWILDMAN Apr 2023 #53
I don't watched Fox. Am not even curious about their opinions. pwb Apr 2023 #56
It should be noted that the goals are the same? NullTuples Apr 2023 #59
fux gnewz created the monster. now its feral. pansypoo53219 Apr 2023 #60
FNC trained it's audience to believe their lies. SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2023 #61
I just found this when looking at Marcy Wheeler's stuff (she had retweeted) BumRushDaShow Apr 2023 #66

Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #2)

marble falls

(71,936 posts)
22. There's no getting even as a class. There are only too few individuals to get justice, that and ...
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 10:08 AM
Apr 2023

... Dominion, apparently.

Response to marble falls (Reply #22)

marble falls

(71,936 posts)
26. I think we'll at the very least see a more moderate Fox. But burning it down would sit OK with me.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 10:50 AM
Apr 2023
 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
3. Save America! Do not settle! There is a higher calling!
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 08:48 AM
Apr 2023

The People of the Jury will reward you handsomely, guaranteed when they are shocked by the Big Lie full exposed to view!

FSogol

(47,623 posts)
5. Fox News had a full page ad in the Washington Post today showing a poll proclaining them the most
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 08:50 AM
Apr 2023

trusted name in News.

NJCher

(43,167 posts)
35. it's probably true
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:39 AM
Apr 2023

that headline: most trusted for news

they just forgot to add "by lunatics."

Thanks for the screenshot.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
39. It could have also read
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:50 AM
Apr 2023
most trusted for fabricated news

And you're welcome! Had to pull out a disinfectant for the phone after that.

FSogol

(47,623 posts)
18. Ads are ads. Newspapers don't pick sides on selling ad space. Outright lies are perfectly
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:59 AM
Apr 2023

acceptable.

marble falls

(71,936 posts)
54. Oooops. I vaguely remember that being being posted here in the early 2000's ...
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 03:54 PM
Apr 2023

... however:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-skews/

The Fox News Channel won a 2004 court case allowing the cable channel to lie to viewers.
Rating:
False
False

About this rating

Rumors have circulated since at least 2009 claiming that the Fox News cable television channel fought successfully in court for the right to lie, misinform, or deceive viewers. The claim that Fox News legally won the "right to lie" has been repeated across the internet despite its being factually inaccurate on more than one level.

First, the case from which the rumor stemmed resulted in a Florida appeals court ruling in February 2003, not 2004. More germane to the rumor, however, is the fact that the case at hand did not involve the national Fox News Channel; rather, it was a breach of contract lawsuit filed by two reporters against their former employer, Tampa Bay television station WTVT. (The situation was somewhat more complicated because WTVT was an affiliate of the Fox television network and was also owned by Fox, but the Fox television network and the Fox News Channel are two distinctly different entities.)

The legal battle to which the rumor refers was about a husband-and-wife reporting team, Jane Aker and Steve Wilson, who in 1996 put together a story about the use of the Monsanto-produced synthetic bovine growth hormone (BGH) Posilac by Florida dairy farmers. WTVT's management asserted that the reporters' BGH piece was alarmist and one-sided and ordered the reporters to edit their story to produce a more "balanced" piece. Aker and Wilson defied those orders; as a result, the BGH story never aired, and the pair were terminated by WTVT in 1997.

The two reporters sued the station for breach of contract and retaliatory firing the following year, maintaining that they had been unfairly terminated from their jobs for "resisting WTVT's attempts to distort or suppress the BGH story" at the behest of Fox corporate and Monsanto, and that the station's management had fired them in retaliation over their threats to file a complaint about WTVT's "deliberate news distortion" to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC):

In September 1997, WTVT notified Akre and Wilson that it was exercising its option to terminate their employment contracts without cause. Akre and Wilson responded in writing to WTVT threatening to file a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission ("FCC&quot alleging that the station had "illegally" edited the still unfinished BGH report in violation of an FCC policy against federally licensed broadcasters deliberately distorting the news. The parties never resolved their differences regarding the content of the story, and consequently, the story never aired.

In April 1998, Akre and Wilson sued WTVT alleging, among other things, claims under the whistle-blower's statute. Those claims alleged that their terminations had been in retaliation for their resisting WTVT's attempts to distort or suppress the BGH story and for threatening to report the alleged news distortion to the FCC. Akre also brought claims for declaratory relief and for breach of contract. After a four-week trial, a jury found against Wilson on all of his claims. The trial court directed a verdict against Akre on her breach of contract claim, Akre abandoned her claim for declaratory relief, and the trial court let her whistle-blower claims go to the jury. The jury rejected all of Akre's claims except her claim that WTVT retaliated against her in response to her threat to disclose the alleged news distortion to the FCC. The jury awarded Akre $425,000 in damages.

Another common misconception is that Fox News invoked First Amendment protections in order to retain the "right to lie" during the lengthy legal battle between the couple and the Florida Fox affiliate. There was no mention of any such claim in the appeals court decision, and Akre herself does not corroborate it. Ultimately, the FCC concluded in 2007 that the conflict between Akre and Wilson and the affiliate boiled down to an "editorial dispute ... rather than a deliberate effort by [WTVT] to distort news."

The "right to lie" claims are similar to another false story about Fox News' trustworthiness, that the network was banned in Canada because it does not meet stringent Canadian broadcast standards for truthfulness.



I guess I stretched this to "SCOTUS says Fox under no obligation to post factual truth on their news broadcasts."

My bad.

marble falls

(71,936 posts)
65. The problem is there are exceptions: an oath for example, or 'truth in advertising', one can ...
Tue Apr 18, 2023, 08:54 AM
Apr 2023

... face sanctions. Or hate speech? What is Fox guaranteeing or using as bait to attract new viewers when they put themselves up as "America's Newsroom"? Are they falsely claiming they provide news factually or does 'news' just mean the latest crap they think up?

All freedom of speech means is no prior restraint to speech, but the speech itself may be actionable. Does this mean that Fox can or can't be enjoined from claiming to be news, or that the crap they project needs to be tested item by item?

If I sell peanut butter that I claim is "100% peanut butter" when I use pumpkin seed as filler, I can be forced to change my label. I can't use 'freedom of speech as a defense.

Like a justice on wrote about pornography - "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it", is news under that same sort of definition, could local authorities restrain Fox news locally and force Fox to fight it out locally as SCOTUS has allowed local jurisdictions to do with pornography?

Many more questions than answers.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
13. Ewww...
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:52 AM
Apr 2023

Whenever I was down that way, I would pick up a print version but have an electronic sub and just checked the "print" version in the mobile app (I usually use the regular web version but have to use the app now to see the "print" view) and found it.

FSogol

(47,623 posts)
19. Thanks for posting that. While some here want to bash WAPO over it, it just shows the sad state of
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 10:01 AM
Apr 2023

this country. I hope Dominion doesn't settle.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
20. YW
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 10:05 AM
Apr 2023

And agree - certainly the Sandy Hook families haven't settled with Alex Jones & InfoWars for defamation and Dominion, having deeper pockets than the Sandy Hook survivors and families who are also victims of RW conspiracy nuts, should not either.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
57. LOL
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 07:34 PM
Apr 2023


The WaPo article at your link even has a snapshot of a tweet with an image of the paper version of the ad -




They won't ever get "the data". Maybe some "alt-data".

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
31. I can imagine that they gamed the poll too
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:16 AM
Apr 2023

I don't know how many times I used to see OPs here that encouraged DUers to weigh in and "DU" some poll.

NJCher

(43,167 posts)
37. you don't have to imagine it
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:46 AM
Apr 2023

take my word for it. I used to work in television marketing research. The real purpose of tv surveys is to evaluate what demographic is watching what so they can justify charging what they want to charge. Certain demographics are worth more than others, notably 25-49 because they don't have every consumer good imaginable, like the older demos do.

So if you know that, it's easy to deduce who Fox oversampled to get the result they wanted. You literally can make any survey come out the way you want it.

I'm surprised even one DU-er on this thread thought this had even a grain of truth to it.



BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
44. I remember way back in the '70s
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 12:17 PM
Apr 2023

when my sister's godparents were Nielsen participants and showed us the log/diary they reported with. And later being a fan of a bunch of shows I eventually learned how they worked that system with the February "sweeps" being the primary time for ratings to set the ad rates for that upcoming fall. Of course nowadays, with cable and streaming outlets, the traditional "seasons" have been almost thrown out the window.

And with the demos, they are obviously constantly shifting as populations age but they are looking for that prime income-receiving range.

Johonny

(26,183 posts)
7. In the 1970s GOP politicians controlled their voters, now they are their voters
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:29 AM
Apr 2023

But decades of radio and TV propaganda means a new generation of GOP politicians have been raised on this material. It was once understood by GOP politicians that the propaganda they used to get in power was for mass consumption, not for governance. But now the rubes are in power and they don't understand any difference. They've been taught, brainwashed, and more importantly rapidly replacing the old guard.

Nixon would be every bit as frightened of these new GOP politicians as he was of Reagan (no brains he called Reagan).

NJCher

(43,167 posts)
38. and they just keep doing it
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:50 AM
Apr 2023

over and over and the only difference is they get significantly crazier with every scheme. Be it Fox News, Benghazi, whatever their scheme is, it nearly always ends up owning them instead of working for them.

I remember Paul Krugman wrote about this over a decade ago. He described the phenomena and he predicted how crazy they were going to go.

I've looked for that column and have never found it. It was prescient.

erronis

(23,882 posts)
50. That's such a good point. The new breed of RW politicians are products of fox/RW propaganda
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 01:53 PM
Apr 2023

It should be obvious but sometimes I don't really connect the dots.

These (r)epuglicon political assholes have been raised drinking the swill. Having grown up in the 50s/60s I knew of a time when the party leaders were still intelligent and looking for ways to compromise. Guess I should have known that Nixon and Gingrich/etc. ushered in a whole new era of sleaze for the (r) party.

IronLionZion

(51,271 posts)
9. The GOP does have a history of electing irredeemably corrupt crooks
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:44 AM
Apr 2023

Trump, Nixon, Harding, even Reagan and W had some issues.

Trump really needs to be the first US president to go to prison. Make history!

AngryOldDem

(14,180 posts)
16. Read "Untouchable" by Elie Honig.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:57 AM
Apr 2023

He lays out pretty well how people in powerful places get away with their shit. He has a chapter on Reagan.

NJCher

(43,167 posts)
40. Elie was interviewed by Preet Bahara
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:52 AM
Apr 2023

on his podcast. It describes this very well, very factually. Regardless of your position on any issue, his description is straight from the facts and the reality of the way our society is structured. That is why we see what we do.

Elie and Preet are valuable members of the "reality-based" segment of our culture.

AngryOldDem

(14,180 posts)
45. Actually, I got my books confused.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 12:18 PM
Apr 2023

I was referencing David Corn’s American Psychosis, which I read right after Elie’s book. Davod explained the Reagan years, especially Iran Contra, and how he was able to get away with it. Dovetails nicely with Elie.

 

jaxexpat

(7,794 posts)
10. So, does this mean Fox news is blameless?
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:46 AM
Apr 2023

That it was all the fault of their intellectually and politically warped audience? An audience which was never coopted or guided by Fox but were, actually, the defacto source of all Fox's valuable propaganda. A case of "letters to the editor" gone wildly amok.

Fox was innocent all along but their viewers drug them into the sewer where they accidentally got rich and became the primary source of info for 40% of America's tee vee viewers.

I think we should take this moment to reflect, as progressives, on our role in this .

 

shrike3

(5,370 posts)
24. No, just that history repeats itself.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 10:40 AM
Apr 2023

"We can control him/them/her." We can never control him/them/her.

McConnell and others thought the GOP could control Trump. Look how that worked out.

NJCher

(43,167 posts)
42. my friend the criminologist says the same
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:58 AM
Apr 2023

We were talking about the "perfect murder." My friend was married to a detective and she is a former supervisor in the NJ state crime lab. She knows her blood spatters.

What she said was that the people who try to plan out the perfect murder never factor in the victim. The victim cannot be predicted.

As the watcher of many a Dateline, I fully appreciate that observation.

To draw the line, Fox victimized a portion of the population by lying to them, but they victimized the rest of us by distorting their view of what actually happened.

Now what will the vic do? We are about to find out.

 

shrike3

(5,370 posts)
46. Excellent analogy. Dateline is one of my guilty pleasures.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 12:27 PM
Apr 2023

And I never thought of it that way -- the victim can't be predicted.

ITAL

(1,323 posts)
11. I have been saying this
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:47 AM
Apr 2023

I knew that this was the case for certain around the time of the 2020 election when conservative family started writing about how Fox was selling out because they were reporting that Biden won. All sorts of posts on facebook how they couldn't watch it anymore because they'd gone to the dark side and were gonna migrate to Newsmax and the further right ecosystem. If I had a handful of family feel that way, I bet it was endemic among the base.

DFW

(60,189 posts)
12. The very name "Fox News" is a blatant violation of the Truth in Advertising Act. n/t
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:49 AM
Apr 2023

AngryOldDem

(14,180 posts)
15. Yep. They've got loonier competition now.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 09:55 AM
Apr 2023

They regret calling the race for Biden. They lost a lot of credibility by that moment of truth, hence the Dominion lie later.

Dominion should say a firm HELL NO to any settlement offer and take Fucker Carlson, Murdoch, and his buddies to trial. It’s time to begin making everybody accountable for Jan. 6 fallout, and Foxisvas good a place as any to start.

aggiesal

(10,806 posts)
23. Not surprised that the inmates are in charge of the prison ...
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 10:22 AM
Apr 2023

they really didn't think this through.
IDIOTS!!!

YoshidaYui

(45,415 posts)
29. I LOOK forward to their FAILURE
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:07 AM
Apr 2023

WHEN they CAN'T AFFORD to keep their lights on any more.

NoMoreRepugs

(12,076 posts)
30. The TeaParty fiasco was driven in large part by Faux - the QWhackadoodles have since taken control.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:12 AM
Apr 2023

AngryOldDem

(14,180 posts)
41. Poor Rupert.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 11:57 AM
Apr 2023

Maybe now he’ll get the message that there are real consequences to making shit up.

Caliman73

(11,767 posts)
51. They painted themselves into a corner...
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 02:31 PM
Apr 2023

Conservatives love to say that the media has a "liberal bias". To be completely fair and honest, liberalism is by far the dominant worldview and has been since the Enlightenment. The idea of taking in information, testing it against reality (what we can see, touch, taste, feel, etc...) and formulating ideas based on the rights of individuals balanced somewhat with the needs of society, is compelling. That is, unless you have a preconceived and long standing idea of what society should look like based on the monarchical systems of old. That second one is Conservatism.

Thing is, while both systems are not "natural" as Conservatives would have you believe their ideology and structure are, Liberalism tends to benefit most people in ways far superior to Conservatism (which favors the most powerful).

If you are a Conservative, you have already taken a rigid view of the world and you have tried to shoehorn information that does not comport to your worldview, or you have tried to reject it, in order for your world view to function.

Because Liberalism changes as the information on the ground changes, there is more flexibility in the mindset. While liberals do recognize difference in people, in terms of intelligence, strength, talents, etc... the balance is between rights and dignity, with the idea of meritocracy, where people are recognized for excellence. In conservatism, "excellence" is assumed by outcome (if you are wealthy, it is because you are worthy, even if you are scum like Donald Trump).

I disagree with what Marcotte says about "Fox has reshaped itself to appeal to its audiences ugliest desires..." Fox shaped and encouraged those ugliest desires and they did so for money and influence. They are not "victims" here. They absolutely knew what they were doing. When Roger Ailes proposed Fox to Murdoch, it was about money, but it was also in response to how Conservatism had just disgraced itself AGAIN with Nixon's debacle. Ailes and Pat Buchanan said, "Never again" and they were right, to a certain extent. Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., and Trump clearly broke the laws more than once, and have never been held accountable.

The problem with Conservatism is that once you start moving rightward and incorporating other extremist views (because you have to in order to maintain a coalition of non-wealthy people) you cannot stop. Fascists in Italy and Nazis in Germany realized it (too late). Right wingers here, have not learned that because they have not suffered the destruction and humiliation suffered in Germany and Italy during WWII.

RANDYWILDMAN

(3,163 posts)
53. They can't lie to themselves
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 03:05 PM
Apr 2023

The idiots they created are like Gremlins, not the docile one like gizmo, it was only a matter of time.

MTG and TFG could only have been elected years after Fox news started because it took all that time to create enough uninforrmed voters of age to be able to vote.

Lindsey Graham was a somewhat sensible person at one point.
rudy G was always masking his madness Fox made it worse
Bill O was always a misogynist predator and Fox made him worse
Tucker alway played the idiot who knew better but could rile them up good
Kennedy (the fake fraud my home town) I'm libertarian, now except the fox puppets pay, you idiot !

pwb

(12,669 posts)
56. I don't watched Fox. Am not even curious about their opinions.
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 07:28 PM
Apr 2023

Reading about them here makes me puke.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
59. It should be noted that the goals are the same?
Mon Apr 17, 2023, 10:39 PM
Apr 2023

"Fox viewers want their favorite network to affirm the various racist conspiracy theories that proliferate on right-wing social media, and Fox leadership, eager to keep viewers and ad dollars, has been all too willing to comply"

Why would they not since that is the message the GOP wants to promote? I'm not so sure about this whole analysis...this seems to be blaming it all on greed, sidestepping that the greed and political manipulation of the audience go hand in hand?

SleeplessinSoCal

(10,412 posts)
61. FNC trained it's audience to believe their lies.
Tue Apr 18, 2023, 12:54 AM
Apr 2023

How totally perfect that the lyingist liar of all time all costs them billions.

It should cost them their license.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
66. I just found this when looking at Marcy Wheeler's stuff (she had retweeted)
Tue Apr 18, 2023, 10:44 AM
Apr 2023

From Hugo Lowell, the young "The Guardian" reporter who appears on MSNBC as a contributor -




Hugo Lowell
@hugolowell
·
Follow
Huh Guardian now ranks #5 for domestic U.S. audience reach online among competitors in segment, pretty impressive
Image
Last edited
10:18 AM · Apr 18, 2023




I expect this is in contrast to the bullshit that Faux paid the NYT to print in a full page ad (i.e., there are all kinds of statistics out there and he didn't link to where he got his stats but there are several orgs that track this)
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